Here's how to get a job in Canada
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Here's how to get a job in Canada
I am tired of reading the same question being asked over and over again! Here is a list of items that must be met in order to work as a pilot in Canada. It is not exhaustive so even if you meet these minimums, YOU MIGHT STILL NOT BE ABLE TO WORK IN CANADA!!!
1) Have the legal right to work in Canada. This is an absolute show stopper. If you don't have this prior to seeking a job, you will not get a job, end of story!
2) Have a CANADIAN COMMERCIAL pilots license. Again, this is a showstopper if you want to be a pilot in Canada. This includes necessary Canadian ratings for the type of flying you wish to do (ie: floats, multi, IFR etc)
3) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! This clearly needs to be stated more than once.
4) Understand the climate, size and remoteness of Canada and whether it's suitable to your needs/desires. Generally time building jobs will be far far away from the amenities and lifestyle you may be accustomed too.
5) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! Yup, said it again, just to be crystal clear!
6) Know the hiring cycles in Canada. Ie: float operators will not generally need pilots in December
7) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! If you haven't already got the point, there is no helping you. I am not here to tell you how to get that, figure it out yourself and do the legwork.
8) understand that aviation is a small industry in Canada, everyone knows someone who knows someone. If you screw over one person to get ahead, you will pay for it severly in the future of your career.
9) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! Got it yet?
10) There is a very minute chance you will ever get hired by emailing resumes. In Canada, employers value Face to face time and a handshake.
11) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! Still don see what I'm getting at?
12) IF YOU OFFER TO PAY FOR YOUR TRAINING YOU WILL BE BLACKLISTED, see point 8
13) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! Self explanatory? I thought so too, but reading so many previous posts, I am clearly wrong!
14) IF YOU OFFER TO WORK FOR FREE FOR THE EXPERIENCE, this is not only illegal but immoral, see point 8 and 12
15) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA!!!
16) Employers value experience in Canada. There are literally hundreds of Canadian 200-500hr wonders who all think they deserve the job ahead of you, rightfully so, with significantly fewer openings available than applicants for entry level positions especially. You face an uphill battle in convincing an employer that they should hire a foreign applicant over a Canadian, but if you are thinking you can offer to work for less or save the company some training money, see points 8, 12, and 14
17). HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA!!!
If anyone else has input or additions, please feel free to add
1) Have the legal right to work in Canada. This is an absolute show stopper. If you don't have this prior to seeking a job, you will not get a job, end of story!
2) Have a CANADIAN COMMERCIAL pilots license. Again, this is a showstopper if you want to be a pilot in Canada. This includes necessary Canadian ratings for the type of flying you wish to do (ie: floats, multi, IFR etc)
3) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! This clearly needs to be stated more than once.
4) Understand the climate, size and remoteness of Canada and whether it's suitable to your needs/desires. Generally time building jobs will be far far away from the amenities and lifestyle you may be accustomed too.
5) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! Yup, said it again, just to be crystal clear!
6) Know the hiring cycles in Canada. Ie: float operators will not generally need pilots in December
7) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! If you haven't already got the point, there is no helping you. I am not here to tell you how to get that, figure it out yourself and do the legwork.
8) understand that aviation is a small industry in Canada, everyone knows someone who knows someone. If you screw over one person to get ahead, you will pay for it severly in the future of your career.
9) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! Got it yet?
10) There is a very minute chance you will ever get hired by emailing resumes. In Canada, employers value Face to face time and a handshake.
11) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! Still don see what I'm getting at?
12) IF YOU OFFER TO PAY FOR YOUR TRAINING YOU WILL BE BLACKLISTED, see point 8
13) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! Self explanatory? I thought so too, but reading so many previous posts, I am clearly wrong!
14) IF YOU OFFER TO WORK FOR FREE FOR THE EXPERIENCE, this is not only illegal but immoral, see point 8 and 12
15) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA!!!
16) Employers value experience in Canada. There are literally hundreds of Canadian 200-500hr wonders who all think they deserve the job ahead of you, rightfully so, with significantly fewer openings available than applicants for entry level positions especially. You face an uphill battle in convincing an employer that they should hire a foreign applicant over a Canadian, but if you are thinking you can offer to work for less or save the company some training money, see points 8, 12, and 14
17). HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA!!!
If anyone else has input or additions, please feel free to add
Last edited by justagigolo77; 4th Oct 2013 at 17:55.
Do you mind if I replace all the "Canada" references and put in "Australia"? We have become a little bit easier to crack lately (Australia) but that's only for ATR and Saab 340 crews. Before anyone sends me a PM about how to get work in Australia on a ATR or a Saab, I'm not telling you.
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Just thought of another one...
Research and Understand how OUR system works. It's not perfect but DO NOT try to bring your screwed up system to us. If you ask about a "Frozen ATPL" you will make yourself look foolish and ignorant.
Research and Understand how OUR system works. It's not perfect but DO NOT try to bring your screwed up system to us. If you ask about a "Frozen ATPL" you will make yourself look foolish and ignorant.
Great post idea gigolo but don't forget to mention that if you don't already have the legal right to work in Canada, you can't work here.
Of course anyone is welcome to come spend their money learning to fly here, but you will not be able to work here afterwards if you don't have some legal right to work here.
Of course anyone is welcome to come spend their money learning to fly here, but you will not be able to work here afterwards if you don't have some legal right to work here.
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Justagigolo77
If you talk about a "Frozen ATPL" at an interview, the interviewers may well ask you to go and stand outside for 5 minutes whilst they consider the question. Well in January to March anyway
If you talk about a "Frozen ATPL" at an interview, the interviewers may well ask you to go and stand outside for 5 minutes whilst they consider the question. Well in January to March anyway
Gigolo, great post, and applicable to most western countries, methinks. The right to reside and work is just so basic in those places where there is no real need for expatriate expertise.
About all I would add is that if the job seeker won't provide some details of experience, such as hours, licence currently held and type ratings or types flown, they do not deserve a reply.
While I don't like putting people down, why don't wannabes ever consider that 300 hours is not going to make them competitive for a bush job, when at least the locals will have some idea of the geography? And as for the dreamers who reckon 3000 hours is going to get them a jet command, as if the locals will allow that to happen.
Have these people no concept of the pecking order, aka the food chain?
About all I would add is that if the job seeker won't provide some details of experience, such as hours, licence currently held and type ratings or types flown, they do not deserve a reply.
While I don't like putting people down, why don't wannabes ever consider that 300 hours is not going to make them competitive for a bush job, when at least the locals will have some idea of the geography? And as for the dreamers who reckon 3000 hours is going to get them a jet command, as if the locals will allow that to happen.
Have these people no concept of the pecking order, aka the food chain?
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Sad to see that sarcasm is rewarded with this kind of recognition. A cursory glance at the Canada forum here and avcanada will reveal pretty much every thread ending up in a downward spiral of personal attacks and pointless drivel; not that prune doesn't have it's fair share of trolls.
The frustration of countless rampies, woefully underpaid, self delusionally over qualified and chronically jaded pilots and wannabees is displayed with gleeful candour.
Keep up the good work guys.
The frustration of countless rampies, woefully underpaid, self delusionally over qualified and chronically jaded pilots and wannabees is displayed with gleeful candour.
Keep up the good work guys.
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Well, thought of one more...
Companies that list their minimum hiring requirements generally do so to get just that, pilots with that minimum experience at the very least. However, most companies will seek and hire pilots with more experience than the listed minimum, with few exceptions. However the exceptions are more often than not, only made for people who know people within the company.
Lastly, don't forget to have the legal right to work in Canada before seeking a position.
Nigd3, the frozen atpl made me lol!
Companies that list their minimum hiring requirements generally do so to get just that, pilots with that minimum experience at the very least. However, most companies will seek and hire pilots with more experience than the listed minimum, with few exceptions. However the exceptions are more often than not, only made for people who know people within the company.
Lastly, don't forget to have the legal right to work in Canada before seeking a position.
Nigd3, the frozen atpl made me lol!
So, are you telling people they must first have the legal right to work in Canada?
Who would have thought?
Who would have thought?
Last edited by mostlytossas; 13th Oct 2013 at 04:22.
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av8r76,
I agree with your post. Justagigolo77 has responded with sarcasm to the multitude of "how do I get a job in Canada" posts and has received credit for doing so.
However, we would like to believe that every pilot fresh from school has the drive to enter the commercial market. We all paid by the hour to get the ratings. Some did it with the benefit of a college, and some did it without the benefit of a college. Irrespective of how the license is obtained, the industry is presented with two distinct groups of "fresh pilots": those who do their own research, and those who do not.
Many of us, I would believe yourself included, did our own research. Some became flight instructors, and some wanted to bypass that step. Either way, we talked with instructors and pilots, tracked those companies we called, e-mailed, or faxed resumes to; we jumped into a beat up old car and made the drive to far-flung locations. We did this because we had an understanding that the only way to get our foot in the door was to put it there ourselves and hope someone noticed when they tried to close the door.
It is unfortunate, however, that many "fresh pilots" do not share this same drive. They certainly share the love of flying, but not the drive to get the first job.
Both types of pilots have equal flying ability (assuming they have not had their licenses printed in a corner market). Both types have the same desire to begin their career in earnest. However, one type realizes that all they have purchased is a fancy drivers license and now they need to go buy the car, while the other type thinks they have purchased the fancy license and a fancy car, and are waiting for the dealership to deliver.
It is this second group that needs to read and understand justagigolo77's post. I do not believe that this same response would be given were the post asking about a specific company, or help with specific research. It is the high level, "give me all the information and forms" that is angering many of the posters.
In conclusion, I believe this frustration over the number of "give me information" posts demonstrates what we as a group of pilots are looking for in the cockpit: someone who reads the books, and asks when they don't understand. The issue is, we are not seeing that online, and it is starting to slowly creep into the cockpit.
I agree with your post. Justagigolo77 has responded with sarcasm to the multitude of "how do I get a job in Canada" posts and has received credit for doing so.
However, we would like to believe that every pilot fresh from school has the drive to enter the commercial market. We all paid by the hour to get the ratings. Some did it with the benefit of a college, and some did it without the benefit of a college. Irrespective of how the license is obtained, the industry is presented with two distinct groups of "fresh pilots": those who do their own research, and those who do not.
Many of us, I would believe yourself included, did our own research. Some became flight instructors, and some wanted to bypass that step. Either way, we talked with instructors and pilots, tracked those companies we called, e-mailed, or faxed resumes to; we jumped into a beat up old car and made the drive to far-flung locations. We did this because we had an understanding that the only way to get our foot in the door was to put it there ourselves and hope someone noticed when they tried to close the door.
It is unfortunate, however, that many "fresh pilots" do not share this same drive. They certainly share the love of flying, but not the drive to get the first job.
Both types of pilots have equal flying ability (assuming they have not had their licenses printed in a corner market). Both types have the same desire to begin their career in earnest. However, one type realizes that all they have purchased is a fancy drivers license and now they need to go buy the car, while the other type thinks they have purchased the fancy license and a fancy car, and are waiting for the dealership to deliver.
It is this second group that needs to read and understand justagigolo77's post. I do not believe that this same response would be given were the post asking about a specific company, or help with specific research. It is the high level, "give me all the information and forms" that is angering many of the posters.
In conclusion, I believe this frustration over the number of "give me information" posts demonstrates what we as a group of pilots are looking for in the cockpit: someone who reads the books, and asks when they don't understand. The issue is, we are not seeing that online, and it is starting to slowly creep into the cockpit.
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It is this second group that needs to read and understand justagigolo77's post. I do not believe that this same response would be given were the post asking about a specific company, or help with specific research. It is the high level, "give me all the information and forms" that is angering many of the posters.
Truth be told, the sarcasm was accidental and just sort of flowed as I was typing it, as someone in another thread pointed out, it's "colonial sarcasm" in play. I'm sure most who have read these forums regularly get so sick of answering the same question over and over to the point where, "Why bother answering if people aren't going to read or believe what I'm saying anyways?" Who does that benefit?
There are a lot of out of work or under utilized aspiring pilots in Canada and it is frustrating to hear over and over again "I have jaa this and this and easa that, I want to build time in Canada, how do I do it?" and then when they get an answer they don't like, cry foul and call us "eternal pessimists" and "aviation snobs". I'm not here to make friends or have someone take jobs from more deserving citizens. Take my info or don't, I couldn't care less, but I'm sure there will be some intelligent people who will not have to waste their, or others time, writing posts and waiting for responses because of what is written above, and those are the people I appreciate and will always lend a hand to help.
Got a client, got to run
Last edited by justagigolo77; 15th Oct 2013 at 01:26.
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New poster here, been an avcanada viewer/occasional poster for 10+ years. liked the post, then I read Av8er76's post and I kind of agreed with some of the stuff he said, then I read mzsurnuage's post and it all made sense, unbeleivable. Now I totally see where your coming from, great post
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Working and living In Canada
Wow, lots of posts on this subject.
If you wish to "work" in Canada there are ways to do it and I did it having driven across the border in a US registered car etc.
First, I found a job that no canadian wanted in Alberta, I had to then drive to Seattle Washington and back, in three days to start work.
In Seattle I picked up a work permit and that got me through my first job in Canada who, by the way, paid for my PPC which effectively gave me a Canadian instrument rating etc.
Two days after I started work, a disgruntled Canadian pilot who was an unsuitable hire filed a load of objections that dam near got me fired.
Later I made a hell of a mistake, I married a Canadian who eventually turned out to have serious mental health issues.
That later destroyed my life and I did not fly again for a long time.
I think any pilot coming to Canada needs to invest in Condoms, and if they meet a Canadian Woman, DO NOT LIVE IN CANADA with children or contemplate giving birth to children in Canada.
Canada's legal system is devoid of Father's or Children's Rights which can entrap you in Canada never to leave, and a virtual slave.
I've lost count of the number of Canadian Pilots whose careers are cut short by
a vindictive mother with at least a personality disorder etc.
One used to fly the Prime Minister of Canada around, others were senior Examiners of Airmen etc.
If you are Australian, do not MARRY in Canada, fly here, have fun, use condoms but NEVER settle in Canada as it is a corrupt country.
Ontario for example has a mad system of child protection run by 48 private corporations who fabricate evidence habitually for funding of a billion dollars a year for the Adoption, foster home, supervised visits scam. They operate like a cult and fabrication of evidence is rampant and there are NO oversights, their lawyers become judges, where they continue to fabricate evidence to make justify accepting fabricated evidence, and or just rubber stamp any wild uncorroborated allegation of a Child Protection Worker, who by the way are not required to be registered and who have absolutely no accountability.
I've lost count of the number of pilots who have had their lives destroyed by these criminal vultures.
Canada is a great world of Aviation, wonderful bush flying, friendly people, but have no doubt what soever that bad operators exist here and its pilot beware.
You cannot name those operators or mention names, Lots of politically correct taboos exist for political correctness.
Canada for male pilots is for adventure only.
Don't ever think of living here permanently if children are going to be around.
The problem is this, most pilots are fairly young and without life experiences that might give you a heads up as to what might be in store later, quite bluntly, when you brain is largely beneath your navel you see what you want to see and not the warning signs.
Be warned, DONT have kids in Canada.
I was aware of that golden rule but was tricked with the old and true subterfuges.
The golden rule is, Never ever not use a condom in Canada. Tie a knot in it and dispose of it in a safe place.
If you wish to "work" in Canada there are ways to do it and I did it having driven across the border in a US registered car etc.
First, I found a job that no canadian wanted in Alberta, I had to then drive to Seattle Washington and back, in three days to start work.
In Seattle I picked up a work permit and that got me through my first job in Canada who, by the way, paid for my PPC which effectively gave me a Canadian instrument rating etc.
Two days after I started work, a disgruntled Canadian pilot who was an unsuitable hire filed a load of objections that dam near got me fired.
Later I made a hell of a mistake, I married a Canadian who eventually turned out to have serious mental health issues.
That later destroyed my life and I did not fly again for a long time.
I think any pilot coming to Canada needs to invest in Condoms, and if they meet a Canadian Woman, DO NOT LIVE IN CANADA with children or contemplate giving birth to children in Canada.
Canada's legal system is devoid of Father's or Children's Rights which can entrap you in Canada never to leave, and a virtual slave.
I've lost count of the number of Canadian Pilots whose careers are cut short by
a vindictive mother with at least a personality disorder etc.
One used to fly the Prime Minister of Canada around, others were senior Examiners of Airmen etc.
If you are Australian, do not MARRY in Canada, fly here, have fun, use condoms but NEVER settle in Canada as it is a corrupt country.
Ontario for example has a mad system of child protection run by 48 private corporations who fabricate evidence habitually for funding of a billion dollars a year for the Adoption, foster home, supervised visits scam. They operate like a cult and fabrication of evidence is rampant and there are NO oversights, their lawyers become judges, where they continue to fabricate evidence to make justify accepting fabricated evidence, and or just rubber stamp any wild uncorroborated allegation of a Child Protection Worker, who by the way are not required to be registered and who have absolutely no accountability.
I've lost count of the number of pilots who have had their lives destroyed by these criminal vultures.
Canada is a great world of Aviation, wonderful bush flying, friendly people, but have no doubt what soever that bad operators exist here and its pilot beware.
You cannot name those operators or mention names, Lots of politically correct taboos exist for political correctness.
Canada for male pilots is for adventure only.
Don't ever think of living here permanently if children are going to be around.
The problem is this, most pilots are fairly young and without life experiences that might give you a heads up as to what might be in store later, quite bluntly, when you brain is largely beneath your navel you see what you want to see and not the warning signs.
Be warned, DONT have kids in Canada.
I was aware of that golden rule but was tricked with the old and true subterfuges.
The golden rule is, Never ever not use a condom in Canada. Tie a knot in it and dispose of it in a safe place.
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justagigolo77
Sorry, I disagree and I'm an Australian in Canada.
I've never paid for training and I've met lots who have and training contracts, paying for training is rampant the world over.
You are about as unlikely to be "black listed' in Canada as anywhere else.
Canadian Pilots are notoriously for having got their licences in incestuous training programs that are similar to that in Australia or NZ etc.
The difference is, if you have good skills, good attitude and determination, you will land a job here and it is a relatively easy task to do IF you do your home work.
There are a tonne of operators who hire pilots without even looking at their immigration status, however, if you fall for that idea, bear in mind that any "Immigration" officer can not only demand to see your licence but WILL want to see your immigration papers.
So, its wise to understand that process, a simple process that MUST be complied with, especially if you fly into any airport AFTER flying an International flight.
I recall two occasions having such a check and once returning from the USA by car, I ended up spending a week stuck in the USA before they confirmed that my documents were ok..
That's madness for you.
Sorry, I disagree and I'm an Australian in Canada.
I've never paid for training and I've met lots who have and training contracts, paying for training is rampant the world over.
You are about as unlikely to be "black listed' in Canada as anywhere else.
Canadian Pilots are notoriously for having got their licences in incestuous training programs that are similar to that in Australia or NZ etc.
The difference is, if you have good skills, good attitude and determination, you will land a job here and it is a relatively easy task to do IF you do your home work.
There are a tonne of operators who hire pilots without even looking at their immigration status, however, if you fall for that idea, bear in mind that any "Immigration" officer can not only demand to see your licence but WILL want to see your immigration papers.
So, its wise to understand that process, a simple process that MUST be complied with, especially if you fly into any airport AFTER flying an International flight.
I recall two occasions having such a check and once returning from the USA by car, I ended up spending a week stuck in the USA before they confirmed that my documents were ok..
That's madness for you.