WestJet
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
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I have seen that too. We'll see what happens though once everything shakes down from the big changes in Pilot Hiring. I'm sure that KM will put his own stamp on how things are done. Thanks to GB for the hard work you have put into this department.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: albion gwaine
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lower minimums
Good to hear for guys wanting to fly a shiny jet, but are they paying any better, great to fly a multi million dollar airplane then when you are finished work hop into your 1984 ford fiesta with an 8 track in it
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Canada
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SWEAT JET
It is a sweat shop. WestJet, or rather Canada. There is really only one carrier in Canada that is really worth working for, and I would be quite amazed if all the W. Jetters didn’t' have their CV in the pile. Much better pay, greater lifestyle. The lifestyle we have all worked so many years after. As a lover of Canada, I would love to be there, but I have chosen to take a tour of the world to explore, make some decent dough, and escape the Canadian tax system (is it not a killer?!!?!)
For those of you at WJ (or other low-cost/start-up) now, get your CV together and get it to A/C ASAP or overseas if you know what is good for you. The days of making good dough at WJ are over. While there are a few rich folks riding around in the 73, those days are over if you have not figured that out. WJ stocks are not worth it. And profit sharing? How were your last few cheques... especially after Jetsgo hit the ditch!!
For those of you with the min requirements for WJ; get your ass into A/C. Keep you asses out of low cost, low pay. Low cost does not have to mean low pay. Look at S. West. Are they underpaid? Not from what I hear.
There are a few reasons that the Canadian industry is in the toilet; miss-management is one, supply and demand is the other. The jobs are out there boys (and girls), but you might have to leave the country to get the one that pays. Don't be scared of crossing the pond, being over seas rocks.
AND>>> for those of you living in Calgary, living with your wife and two kids in a one bedroom apartment because WJ simply cannot pay the bills, give me a call.
Ciao for now, talk to you on the flip side.
Ex Canada guy.
For those of you at WJ (or other low-cost/start-up) now, get your CV together and get it to A/C ASAP or overseas if you know what is good for you. The days of making good dough at WJ are over. While there are a few rich folks riding around in the 73, those days are over if you have not figured that out. WJ stocks are not worth it. And profit sharing? How were your last few cheques... especially after Jetsgo hit the ditch!!
For those of you with the min requirements for WJ; get your ass into A/C. Keep you asses out of low cost, low pay. Low cost does not have to mean low pay. Look at S. West. Are they underpaid? Not from what I hear.
There are a few reasons that the Canadian industry is in the toilet; miss-management is one, supply and demand is the other. The jobs are out there boys (and girls), but you might have to leave the country to get the one that pays. Don't be scared of crossing the pond, being over seas rocks.
AND>>> for those of you living in Calgary, living with your wife and two kids in a one bedroom apartment because WJ simply cannot pay the bills, give me a call.
Ciao for now, talk to you on the flip side.
Ex Canada guy.
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: A large cold land...
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O.K. I'll bite...
Sweat shop... How do you figure? I've got a minimum of 12 days off a month. In the last 3 I have had an average of 15 days off. I'll work 60 - 70 hours of sticktime a month. We fly one of the most technologically advanced aircraft in the air today. We use the FMS to it's fullest with RNP and "own navigation" for approaches. We are pioneer's in the field of RNP. We fly all over Canada, into the U.S. and Hawaii, not to mention most places in the Caribbean and Mexico. Hardly a Sweatshop...
Lifestyle. In addition to the days off my requests are more often than not given to me when I build a schedule for the next month. No one, and I mean NOT ONE of our pilots is sitting around on reserve waiting for the phone to ring... How's that for lifestyle?
Vacation. I've got 6 weeks to do with as I wish. We run a "point" system so all pilots have an equal shot at getting Easter and Christmas off. None of the, "You'll be senior one day." B.S. regarding vacation bidding...
While I know nothing about your job or your lifestyle - something that doesn't deter you from slagging my "lack thereof" - I would hazard a guess that things are not as rosy as you would lead us to believe... Having worked overseas I have experienced the lack of work rules to protect "lifestyle" and the lack of rapour between Pilot's and Management that creates friction and animosity in the workplace...
I have worked oversea's and have come to realize that the grass is not always greener... That "Big Paycheque" that I chased was not nearly as big as it had looked on paper before I left Canada. Do not underestimate the cost's involved in working oversea's. It was very expensive...
As for the Profit Sharing cheques... I took home an extra paycheque thank you very much. Free money and much appreciated. As for stock not worth it... Your ignorance is showing. We buy at 1/2 price. The company matches our contribution. We are virtually doubling up on shares right now with the "downturn" in the market of last summer... Now with the low oil prices and stabilized market the rebound is increasing the worth of those shares we bought "at a discount" last summer...
I spent a number of years flying oversea's for a "respected" carrier... It's not all it's cracked up to be. It was an expensive, trying adventure. It was a struggle adapting to an Airline that saw a Pilot as piece of meat to do with as they wish. No work rules, no penalties for "misusing" an asset. Try misusing their equipment however and you'd hear about it...
A schedule that was handed to you with no regard whatsoever for my requests. A schedule that changed with a phone call. Looking forward to some overtime to pay for a little luxury? Sorry, you are now on Stand-By, no overtime... Roster "balancing" was something I was very acquainted with by the end of my tenure...
I'll stay where I am thank you very much. With 12 Boeing's coming in 2006, and more announced for 2007 and 2008, command's will be coming quickly again as they had before the last "downturn".
I encourage anyone with the right attitude to come here and join the team.
"It is a sweat shop. WestJet, or rather Canada. There is really only one carrier in Canada that is really worth working for, and I would be quite amazed if all the W. Jetters didn’t' have their CV in the pile. Much better pay, greater lifestyle. The lifestyle we have all worked so many years after."
Sweat shop... How do you figure? I've got a minimum of 12 days off a month. In the last 3 I have had an average of 15 days off. I'll work 60 - 70 hours of sticktime a month. We fly one of the most technologically advanced aircraft in the air today. We use the FMS to it's fullest with RNP and "own navigation" for approaches. We are pioneer's in the field of RNP. We fly all over Canada, into the U.S. and Hawaii, not to mention most places in the Caribbean and Mexico. Hardly a Sweatshop...
Lifestyle. In addition to the days off my requests are more often than not given to me when I build a schedule for the next month. No one, and I mean NOT ONE of our pilots is sitting around on reserve waiting for the phone to ring... How's that for lifestyle?
Vacation. I've got 6 weeks to do with as I wish. We run a "point" system so all pilots have an equal shot at getting Easter and Christmas off. None of the, "You'll be senior one day." B.S. regarding vacation bidding...
"As a lover of Canada, I would love to be there, but I have chosen to take a tour of the world to explore, make some decent dough, and escape the Canadian tax system (is it not a killer?!!?!)"
"For those of you at WJ (or other low-cost/start-up) now, get your CV together and get it to A/C ASAP or overseas if you know what is good for you. The days of making good dough at WJ are over. While there are a few rich folks riding around in the 73, those days are over if you have not figured that out. WJ stocks are not worth it. And profit sharing? How were your last few cheques... especially after Jetsgo hit the ditch!!"
As for the Profit Sharing cheques... I took home an extra paycheque thank you very much. Free money and much appreciated. As for stock not worth it... Your ignorance is showing. We buy at 1/2 price. The company matches our contribution. We are virtually doubling up on shares right now with the "downturn" in the market of last summer... Now with the low oil prices and stabilized market the rebound is increasing the worth of those shares we bought "at a discount" last summer...
I spent a number of years flying oversea's for a "respected" carrier... It's not all it's cracked up to be. It was an expensive, trying adventure. It was a struggle adapting to an Airline that saw a Pilot as piece of meat to do with as they wish. No work rules, no penalties for "misusing" an asset. Try misusing their equipment however and you'd hear about it...
A schedule that was handed to you with no regard whatsoever for my requests. A schedule that changed with a phone call. Looking forward to some overtime to pay for a little luxury? Sorry, you are now on Stand-By, no overtime... Roster "balancing" was something I was very acquainted with by the end of my tenure...
I'll stay where I am thank you very much. With 12 Boeing's coming in 2006, and more announced for 2007 and 2008, command's will be coming quickly again as they had before the last "downturn".
I encourage anyone with the right attitude to come here and join the team.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Would you mind "explaining" to the rest of the aviation world just how WJ is a pioneer (!) in the RNP business? I would think that at least a few other carriers are WAY ahead of you when it comes to leading the way in navigation...It wasn't that long ago when all you had were -200's...What's next? You invented ETOPS?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Age: 44
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As a 1900 driver, I've nothing to compare it to, but, I've seen Westjet's RNP approach plates for Kelowna, and it's fargin amazing. If there are other carriers out there "Way ahead" I want to see it.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Quebec, Canada
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One of the pioneer of RNP approaches is Alaska Airlines. Westjet did not invent the concept nor pioneered it. They are just the first one in Canada to use it. It was used bu others weel before pilots at Wesjet knew about it....
Join Date: Jul 1999
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We are currently the only airline in Canada and the world's first in using RNP approaches/navigation down to .1. We are acquiring data, building approaches, liaising with Transport and designing the manner in which these approaches are implemented. We are the only airline flying ILS quality approaches to non-precision airports. Kelowna is an example to runway 33.
Our aim is to use RNP for CAT I ILS approach minima to what are currently non-precision approaches. Our goal is a .01 RNP.
Transport Canada is very interested and has been on board from the beginning. They see RNP as a way to reduce their costs, offer precision approach service to many more airports, without the cost of ground based nav aids or instrumentation.
If that is not a Pioneer, I don't know what your definition is...
Alaska is embarking on the same programme in the 'States. We are working together in many aspects of the programme. Their programme revolved around the HUD in the old 727 when they flew it, ours revolves around the Smith's FMS in the Boeing 737 NG.
Alaska now flies RNP approaches into Palm Springs, Juneau and several other airports in Alaska with their 737NG's. We fly to many more cities using the RNP approach and have the unique ability to acquire more data and experience in a shorter period of time.
It's just as amazing to use in our day to day operation.
World's first to use RNP .1 Navigation
Our aim is to use RNP for CAT I ILS approach minima to what are currently non-precision approaches. Our goal is a .01 RNP.
Transport Canada is very interested and has been on board from the beginning. They see RNP as a way to reduce their costs, offer precision approach service to many more airports, without the cost of ground based nav aids or instrumentation.
If that is not a Pioneer, I don't know what your definition is...
Alaska is embarking on the same programme in the 'States. We are working together in many aspects of the programme. Their programme revolved around the HUD in the old 727 when they flew it, ours revolves around the Smith's FMS in the Boeing 737 NG.
Alaska now flies RNP approaches into Palm Springs, Juneau and several other airports in Alaska with their 737NG's. We fly to many more cities using the RNP approach and have the unique ability to acquire more data and experience in a shorter period of time.
"I've seen Westjet's RNP approach plates for Kelowna, and it's fargin amazing."
World's first to use RNP .1 Navigation
Last edited by Slapshot; 9th Dec 2005 at 22:25.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: somewhere in Western Canada
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Naverus, the company that develops the RNP approaches, was started by some Alaska Airlines pilots. Not sure if they still work there or not.
Naverus also does work for Qantas and AirNZ now.
http://www.naverus.com/index.htm
Naverus also does work for Qantas and AirNZ now.
http://www.naverus.com/index.htm
Join Date: Oct 2003
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WestJet faces new allegations Air Canada alleges WestJet ran campaign to steal confidential data from 'evil empire' By BRENT JANG
Friday, December 9, 2005 Posted at 4:15 AM EST
From Friday's Globe and Mail
Air Canada alleges that WestJet Airlines Ltd. ran an espionage campaign code-named the "007 Project" to steal confidential data from the larger carrier's "evil empire," allowing WestJet to strategically launch flights to the United States.
In new court filings, Air Canada further alleges that WestJet's snooping was designed in part to thwart the Montreal-based carrier's emergence from bankruptcy protection.
Not only did WestJet spy on Air Canada and defunct Jetsgo Corp., but it also gained access to secret statistics at CanJet Airlines of Halifax, according to documents filed in the Ontario Superior Court.
Air Canada said the latest revelations came to light after court-appointed forensic auditors scrutinized hard drives seized from Calgary-based WestJet.
In April last year, Air Canada launched a $220-million lawsuit accusing WestJet of corporate espionage. WestJet denies any wrongdoing and none of the allegations have been proven in court.
Air Canada sought protection in April, 2003, under the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act, and emerged from bankruptcy protection in September, 2004.
Benjamin Smith, Air Canada's vice-president of planning, said in an affidavit that WestJet "attempted to undermine" the CCAA process.
Mr. Smith attached 24 exhibits to his affidavit, including a copy of an e-mail exchange between WestJet co-founders Mark Hill and Clive Beddoe, WestJet's chairman and chief executive officer.
Mr. Hill said in an e-mail from his BlackBerry, dated Sept. 11, 2003, that WestJet obtained a list of Air Canada's 200 weakest routes. If WestJet were to leak such information, "AC would have some serious back-tracking and explaining to do to potential investors, and would further weaken their credibility in all quarters," Mr. Hill said.
Another e-mail written by Mr. Hill, WestJet's former vice-president of strategic planning who resigned from the airline in mid-2004, points to the "evil empire" database, referring to Air Canada's load factors, or the proportion of available seats filled.
Code words used in the subject fields of e-mails included "Schtuff" and "Wayne," to alert recipients that the topic would be the 007 Project, and "WestJet and Hill often used the term 'evil empire' to refer to" Air Canada, according to Mr. Smith's affidavit, dated Nov. 28.
Various e-mails show that Air Canada's confidential data was used by WestJet to help plan transborder flights to the United States from Canada, Mr. Smith said.
Air Canada and a subsidiary allege that their smaller rival hacked into a confidential website for Air Canada employees and retirees.
Forensic auditors have determined that Mr. Hill "was analyzing the plaintiff's confidential employee website information in order to assist WestJet in expanding its routes into the United States," Mr. Smith said.
Mr. Smith alleges WestJet gained access to confidential data from CanJet and Jetsgo, and that WestJet found it "both useful and valuable" to obtain Air Canada's "real-time, flight-specific" information.
He added that Mr. Hill sent an e-mail "thoroughly analyzing Jetsgo's, CanJet's and Air Canada's load factors into Florida's destinations" in an effort to plot WestJet's new flights. "The information in this e-mail is not publicly available and could not have been obtained from manual counting of passengers at airport terminals," Mr. Smith said.
Air Canada alleges that WestJet's 007 Project grew increasingly sophisticated as the discount carrier found a way to automate "the accessing and analyzing" of Air Canada's internal data.
Air Canada said it uncovered e-mails from Mr. Hill at the address "[email protected]" (MH are the initials of Mark Hill; YYJ is airport code for Victoria, where he lives). The e-mails appear to indicate he had access to sensitive information, including a letter written by an Air Canada employee to Victor Li at Trinity Time Investments Ltd., which had offered to bail out Air Canada but later withdrew its offer.
Mr. Smith complains that WestJet has yet to produce documents to shed more light on why WestJet transferred its Central Canadian base to Toronto's Pearson International Airport from Hamilton.
Friday, December 9, 2005 Posted at 4:15 AM EST
From Friday's Globe and Mail
Air Canada alleges that WestJet Airlines Ltd. ran an espionage campaign code-named the "007 Project" to steal confidential data from the larger carrier's "evil empire," allowing WestJet to strategically launch flights to the United States.
In new court filings, Air Canada further alleges that WestJet's snooping was designed in part to thwart the Montreal-based carrier's emergence from bankruptcy protection.
Not only did WestJet spy on Air Canada and defunct Jetsgo Corp., but it also gained access to secret statistics at CanJet Airlines of Halifax, according to documents filed in the Ontario Superior Court.
Air Canada said the latest revelations came to light after court-appointed forensic auditors scrutinized hard drives seized from Calgary-based WestJet.
In April last year, Air Canada launched a $220-million lawsuit accusing WestJet of corporate espionage. WestJet denies any wrongdoing and none of the allegations have been proven in court.
Air Canada sought protection in April, 2003, under the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act, and emerged from bankruptcy protection in September, 2004.
Benjamin Smith, Air Canada's vice-president of planning, said in an affidavit that WestJet "attempted to undermine" the CCAA process.
Mr. Smith attached 24 exhibits to his affidavit, including a copy of an e-mail exchange between WestJet co-founders Mark Hill and Clive Beddoe, WestJet's chairman and chief executive officer.
Mr. Hill said in an e-mail from his BlackBerry, dated Sept. 11, 2003, that WestJet obtained a list of Air Canada's 200 weakest routes. If WestJet were to leak such information, "AC would have some serious back-tracking and explaining to do to potential investors, and would further weaken their credibility in all quarters," Mr. Hill said.
Another e-mail written by Mr. Hill, WestJet's former vice-president of strategic planning who resigned from the airline in mid-2004, points to the "evil empire" database, referring to Air Canada's load factors, or the proportion of available seats filled.
Code words used in the subject fields of e-mails included "Schtuff" and "Wayne," to alert recipients that the topic would be the 007 Project, and "WestJet and Hill often used the term 'evil empire' to refer to" Air Canada, according to Mr. Smith's affidavit, dated Nov. 28.
Various e-mails show that Air Canada's confidential data was used by WestJet to help plan transborder flights to the United States from Canada, Mr. Smith said.
Air Canada and a subsidiary allege that their smaller rival hacked into a confidential website for Air Canada employees and retirees.
Forensic auditors have determined that Mr. Hill "was analyzing the plaintiff's confidential employee website information in order to assist WestJet in expanding its routes into the United States," Mr. Smith said.
Mr. Smith alleges WestJet gained access to confidential data from CanJet and Jetsgo, and that WestJet found it "both useful and valuable" to obtain Air Canada's "real-time, flight-specific" information.
He added that Mr. Hill sent an e-mail "thoroughly analyzing Jetsgo's, CanJet's and Air Canada's load factors into Florida's destinations" in an effort to plot WestJet's new flights. "The information in this e-mail is not publicly available and could not have been obtained from manual counting of passengers at airport terminals," Mr. Smith said.
Air Canada alleges that WestJet's 007 Project grew increasingly sophisticated as the discount carrier found a way to automate "the accessing and analyzing" of Air Canada's internal data.
Air Canada said it uncovered e-mails from Mr. Hill at the address "[email protected]" (MH are the initials of Mark Hill; YYJ is airport code for Victoria, where he lives). The e-mails appear to indicate he had access to sensitive information, including a letter written by an Air Canada employee to Victor Li at Trinity Time Investments Ltd., which had offered to bail out Air Canada but later withdrew its offer.
Mr. Smith complains that WestJet has yet to produce documents to shed more light on why WestJet transferred its Central Canadian base to Toronto's Pearson International Airport from Hamilton.
Join Date: Jul 1999
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Tan, there is a rumour of a 737 being operated at FL430. No Airline has admitted one of their machines being at that altitude.
One of my bretheren here at WestJet informs me that it was not one of our machines...
rotornut, nothing new there... Lot's of "He said, She said" allegations... Nothing has been proved in court. Until the facts come out in court it's a thinly veiled attempt to smear WestJet and those that work here...
One of my bretheren here at WestJet informs me that it was not one of our machines...
rotornut, nothing new there... Lot's of "He said, She said" allegations... Nothing has been proved in court. Until the facts come out in court it's a thinly veiled attempt to smear WestJet and those that work here...
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Would you mind "explaining" to the rest of the aviation world just how WJ is a pioneer (!) in the RNP business? I would think that at least a few other carriers are WAY ahead of you when it comes to leading the way in navigation.
Insert foot in mouth..............now!! Then remove and wish you had researched before commenting.
Do over as needed.
Insert foot in mouth..............now!! Then remove and wish you had researched before commenting.
Do over as needed.
Join Date: Jul 1999
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What "facts" have you seen? I put it to you that the only "facts" that you, or I for that matter, are privy to are the ones reported in the newspaper's...
We all know how accurate newspapers are with respect to aviation...
WestJet's position is that they used information obtainable by a variety of sources - all legal - in the day to day operation of our Airline.
Air Canada's position is that they have suffered harm in a monetary sense and seek compensation.
Air Canada, however, neglects to spell out the damages by allowing the court to see documented evidence of the damages... By showing the books, by providing evidence of the damage and putting a dollar cost to it, the case would be over.
However it is not in the best interest of Air Canada to end the case. By trotting out press releases they can harm our reputation and attempt to undermine our morale with impunity by adding the tag line- "None of the accusations have been proven in court".
We all know how accurate newspapers are with respect to aviation...
WestJet's position is that they used information obtainable by a variety of sources - all legal - in the day to day operation of our Airline.
Air Canada's position is that they have suffered harm in a monetary sense and seek compensation.
Air Canada, however, neglects to spell out the damages by allowing the court to see documented evidence of the damages... By showing the books, by providing evidence of the damage and putting a dollar cost to it, the case would be over.
However it is not in the best interest of Air Canada to end the case. By trotting out press releases they can harm our reputation and attempt to undermine our morale with impunity by adding the tag line- "None of the accusations have been proven in court".