BA's proposal is out!

Increase productivity of our existing crew.

HRI raised - 2000 HCE

Reduction in crew complements

-The removal of one purser from Worldwide flights (747,777,767)

- With Worldwide CSDs now included in the customer service routines

- On the 777 3-class aircraft at Gatwick swap a purser for a main crew member, in line with Heathrow

- Removal of additional main crew members on Heathrow long range routes and additional crew member routes (currently 1 destinations)

- The use of a single supervisor on all Eurofleet flights, either a CSD or a purser, balancing the work between these grades

- Move to the same crew complements on Eurofleet as currently operated at Gatwick

- Increase in ground based productivity at base and downroute

- Reduce downroute double night stops to single nights (currently 14 destinations)

- Alignment of Worldwide MBT days to the existing Gatwick agreement

- A reduction in days off from 10 days per month to 9 days per month for all eurofleet crew, in line with Gatwick

- Change the finish time before days off on Eurofleet

- Maximise the utilisation of ICC crew on existing designated routes

Disruption Agreement

-New operational recovery agreement
-Puts our customer first
-Triggered by the operations
-Review of incident post disruption
-A Separate Mixed Fleet Heathrow

-New rates of pay and terms and conditions for all newly recruited crew
-Single on-board management grade
-No seniority
-Promotion on merit
-Elapsed hourly rate
-Market rate + 10%
-Performance related pay and bonus

UNITE PROPOSAL

-2 Year pay freeze
-1 year increment freeze (£14.5k)
-Temporary loan

BA- WILLING TO ACCEPT BUT ON A PERMANENT BASIS WITH NO REPAYMENT

THE PACKAGE

Permanent part-time contracts available to all
-Completion of existing part-time lists (all bases) (4678 crew)

-Register for new part-time list (All bases) 50% & 75% contracts- closed 21st June 09 (707 crew)

-Register for new part-time list (All bases) 33% contracts - opens 1st July 09 (to a max of 150 Crew)

Voluntary redundancy offered to all UK permanent crew effective 30th Sept 09

Best offer opportunity
-Maximum of 52 weeks.
-Registration of interest closed 21st June (3722 crew)

Transfer into Heathrow Eurofleet & Worldwide for existing Heathrow crew only.

-Subject to take up of voluntary & part-time offers
-Existing transfer list only
-No further permanent recruitment or permanent transfers into LHR on the existing Heathrow crew contract.

New Fixed Monthly Duty Payment replacing variable allowances.

- A fixed element of pay will be introduced to be paid as part of the monthly pay, replacing variable allowances.
- The payment will be subject to a deduction calculated on a daily basis for all non flying related duties.

The additional payment will replace the following.
Worldwide
Eurofleet

Long range premiums (box payments)

Back to back payments

Destination payments

Extra time payments

Time away allowance

Telephone allowance

Long day payments

Extra time payments

Base early report

Telephone allowance

All elements of this package are subject to agreement to the proposal

Hmmm, how odd, fairly similar to what has been described previously in this discussion and pulling LHR into line with LGW who have proven the structure.


It will be interesting to see how this is greeted on the BASSA forum!


Interesting, especially if they get the existing members over to new contract!

Get ready for the strike cries across the Bassa board!

I'm not surprised at these proposals, I must say...

Let's see what happens next...

Gg

Are the newly recruited LHR a separate fleet still or just another new contract style thing?

Any idea on what the new all in one payment will be? Hopefully a fair one. I dont see the productivity bit as too onorous?

HM, as far as I can see it will be a separate fleet.

Already there are peeps complaining on CF that they can't possibly have only 2 days off after a trip... We manage at LGW. I know it's not ideal, but considering we've been doing it for nearly 3 years, it was inevitable...

Gg

This is the proposal of BASSA and UNITE!

Pay

To maintain the overall cabin crew pay- Basic salary above and all variables and meal allowance bill at its current level (as at 31st March 2009) during the period 1st April 2009 to 31st March 2011, subject to any increase in flying volumes.

If any changes in overall flying create a surplus in cabin crew, BA will take all reasonable steps to manage this surplus voluntarily rather than compulsory measures.

Combined Pay and Productivity

- Cabin crew pay scales: (above £12000 per annum) reduced by 2.61% as of 1st October 2009. Incremental scale for all grades is unchanged. No change to pensionable salary scales. .

- Next salary increase date 1stFebruary 2011 - for basic salary, variables and meal allowances 2011.

- From 1st October 2009 a telephone allowance will no longer be paid

- Incremental salary increases will continue as normal.

Productivity - Worldwide Fleet

Disruption agreement.

From 1st October 2009, the disruption agreement will be extended to cover the following areas:

- Inbound diversions within the United Kingdom and Ireland will no longer require a double night. If crew cannot continue onwards to base and rest is required - minimum of 13.1/2 hours and or scheme will be applicable - Crew may then continue onwards to base.

- A diversion payment will be payable if crew divert and or take minimum rest and subsequently continue to base, unless a double nights rest has been achieved.
- One MBT may be flexed to maintain the forward roster.

- To ensure a continual customer focus the Director of Customer should liase with the Branch Chairman or convener of the relevant union branch in order to discuss the nature, extent, and time scales of the disruption.

Any element expressly contained within the disruption agreement may be used, but will be confirmed in writing to each union within 3 hours of its initiation.

The disruption agreement may be enacted for a period of 1 to 6 days. If an extension is required the above process will be repeated.
A sub group of the NSP will be set up to discuss and agree a disruption agreement for Euro Fleet and Single Fleet Gatwick crew. The trigger for use of a new Euro Fleet and Single Fleet Gatwick disruption agreement will be the same as used by the WW disruption agreement.

Back to Back Agreement

- From 1st October a Middle East back to back will be allowable. This will consist of a list of specified Middle East destinations, agreed in advance with the Steering representatives of Unite Cabin Crew and will be linked as per the current back to back agreement. Examples of destinations to be linked will include, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Egypt and Kuwait.

- The following provisos will need to be observed;

- A back to back will not consist of a western trip linked to an eastern trip.

- A back to back will not consist of any destination that is not typically agreed as a destination that forms part of the middle east theatre of operation. Examples are listed above

- A back to back will generate a minimum of 4 nights MBT.

- Any slip at any destination that links two trips without MBT between the two trips, will be considered the ‘slip station’ and will trigger any associated payments.

- Any new destination within the global linear marks, known as longitude and latitude within the marks known as 40 degrees East - 20 degrees North, shall be subject to negotiation and agreement, before being included as an allowable back to back destination.

Supervisory Reduction

A position of premium cabin purser will be introduced. The premium cabin purser will be responsible for supervising the service in both the First and Club world cabins.

This will allow the removal of one purser position from the 747/777 4 class aircraft, which will be replaced by a main crewmember, subject to training and flying experience.

This is subject to the following provisos;

- The purser may elect to work in any of the premium cabins

- Legal Responsibilities will then be re-allocated to main crewmembers.

Additional Crew Member Routes.

Remove the extra crewmembers from LHR additional crewmember routes.

Early Day Report.

Early day report will be amended to allow a trip to be allocated from 06:01 onwards.

Productivity - Single Fleet Gatwick

On the 777 3 class aircraft at LGW swap a purser for a main crewmember, subject to training and flying experience.

Change to the bidding agreement that will allow CM’s to bid for trips on the Airbus. The principle of single supervisory grade will prevail.

Productivity - Euro Fleet


B767 aircraft will move to Euro Fleet to be operated under a new Euro Fleet agreement.

Euro Fleet Single Supervisor.

It is agreed in principle that the CSD and PSR role can be considered a single role for the purposes of bidding/rostering. The principles are as follows;

- A CSD or PSR can bid for or rostered any trip on any single aisle aircraft type (except 767.)

- A CSD or PSR can be rostered in-charge of B757.

- Only one SCCM to be rostered on B757 and any single aisle aircraft type and the current PSR position is to be replaced by a main crew member.

- On Euro Fleet B767 the SCCM must be a CSD, with the current PSR position being replaced by a main crewmember.

Finish time

Change Euro Fleet finish time to 22:00. This is subject to the preceding block of work being five days or less.

Productivity - Cross Fleet

Targeted unlimited voluntary redundancy should be offered in seniority order.

THE PACKAGE

Part - time Contracts

Exhaust the existing part time lists for all bases.

Open a new part time list offering the following contract types;

75% contract
50% contract
33% contracts
Job share

This list is to be made available to all bases and could be opened from the 1st July 2009.

There are to be no restrictions on the number of contracts assailable.

Voluntary Redundancy.

An offer of voluntary redundancy is made available to all permanent cabin crew, and subject to the following:

- Maximum of 75 weeks.

- Staff Travel to remain in place.

- Opportunity and Choice Framework

ALL NSP fleets retain full transfer rights under the Ops+ Choice agreement. This is to include single Fleet Gatwick.

Long - Term Incentive Plan

An L-TIP will be agreed covering the period from 2011 to 2014 and will focus primarily on an incentives share scheme.

75 weeks VR when the Flight Crew were offered max 52? Seems optimistic but, hey, good luck!

LTIP based on shares? Also seems a little familiar!

No mention of change to block payments? Odd that.

Disruption allowance is not worth the paper it's written on. I particularly love the line:

Who's train set is this anyway?

Haven't got time to dissect the rest but from a quick glance over WW will be laughing himself to sleep with the counter proposal! Guess we are headed for IA then. :{

Crew screaming STRIKE all over the forum and asking them to ballot immediately.

BASSA wants further B2B as part of their productivity plan. How are they suppose to save money as BA would still need to supply with B2B payment and hotel in LHR? I forgot! Three days off as well.

And its been the long haul pilots rostering minimum for donkeys years.

Also very generous of BASSA giving all those concessions on the 757 when its only here for 6 more months ish.

What do we know anyway, apparently it's all our fault for rolling over and accepting our 'tummy tickling' sweetheart deal.

Ironic really that the BA proposal seems to be remarkably similar to our own working T's & C's for about the past 5 years?

Who'da thought it eh?

Not to mention the idea that a 2.61% paycut matches our proposed negotiated solution - neatly missing the £1800 per capita pay cut potential from the loss of FHR as well. How unlike BASSA to cherry pick the very best from everything around them at the expense of the realities.

Constructive Dismissal
 

Just to clarify Constructive Dismissal

...is where an employee resigns because of their employer's behaviour....

So this is the "Elegant Solution" that was anticipated by Stall Pusher and colleagues?

Looks like they've been led up the garden path again....to the edge of a cliff.

Well, industrial issues aside ....having seen the remarks from some of our CC colleagues on the "other" forum I do worry for the future of CRM in BA..frankly if some of them really loath Flight Crew as much as they make out then they really should do us all a favour and to get as far as way from an aircraft as possible by taking another job.

I fear the working atmosphere on BA aircraft is going to become positively poisonous in the very near future, win, draw or lose.

BASSA's 'proposal' is so obviously a union-meddling-in-the-way-the-company-deals-with-operations thing, that they haven't a hope in hell of getting anything like it! Crazy! :ugh:

They might shriek loudly about striking but the majority will pull a 'sickie' - I don't think the majority will actually follow through with a strike. Still creates chaos though, but they will suffer serious consequences.

Given that all has been said, I think that BA have ever so slightly overstepped the mark in their proposals.

Most of the productivity proposals seem OK, but it seems like BA want everything,given that full time WW crew work to nearly 900 hours to drop a couple of things such as reduced MBTs and/or double night stops, and the proposal would have a chance of appealing to some of the people sitting on the fence. As it stands it looks greedy and opportunistic.

Also, it doesn't say what the new Fixed Monthly Duty Payment is and how it will work in reality. Why would crew vote for something that has no financial information?

Surely thats about flexibility? They cant work harder over a year as you say, but it would mean less dropped trips due disruption, standby blocks, leave borders etc.

I agree, very odd, unless of course its one of things to be dropped as a carrot.

HM

Look at any WW full timers hours and most are right up against 900hrs month in month out (as I am:eek:) I stand by what I said, unless BA back off (a little) then none of this will appeal to those that sit on the fence, and they will vote for strike action.

Odd? Perhaps, but why would they believe that they have any hope in getting BASSA's plan past BA? Either way, nowt that anyone else can do about it ..... but it will be an entertaining time ..... if a highly damaging one.:suspect:

I acknowledged that. It would make rostering much much more flexible though. It would be easier for rostering to give uk requests etc and when they hit 900 more days off just as we do.

I agree no-one would agree to that, but the majority of it will go through once a few sweeteners have been added.

How utterly insulting to propose the exact percentage cut that pilots are taking to BASIC (2.61%) and demand the exact same LTIP share scheme to make it all seem so "fair" while "forgetting" about:

1. The 20% cut to variable flying pay being taken
2. The fact that pilots are ALREADY on an hourly rate
3. Pilots don't do back to backs with all the payments and hotel accom
3. Shorthaul pilots do fixed links resulting in 700+ hours per year

etc etc, etc.
Stop comparing us, we leaned up years ago, of course this won't be fair, cc carry far more fat and will thus have different savings targets.

The problem is Plod, that the pilots roll-over too quickly.

They need to fight to preserve their T&C's. No good feeding the BA crocodile in the hope it will eat you last.

Da Dog
 

Refreshing. An exit plan will be needed for the masses. Now, if the Boss Man was to put away his manhood a tad, a win win solution could be made.

BA LHR crew will not be on Virgin wages, nor should they be. BA are a four class service airline, Virgin are not. BASSA need an exit plan too. You will not smash a union in one year. It is not like the British coal or car industry. When did they ever make £1B profit? If 2000 jobs go, then there still will be 11000 very angry employees, if not next year, then definitely the year after, when the profit margins return to where they should be.

Its not the 900 hrs, its what you do with them. Get rid of peripheral payments and INCREASE wages. Believe me, crew will want to get straight home after disruption. If a light does not work in the rest area, then just snag it.

Bearing in mind around 39% of WWLHR cc are on part time contracts, the company could get more work out of them regarding 900 hrs.

I reckon the company have put all these on the table so if they drop a couple of issues, the union will be so grateful that they'll agree to the rest. Not my opinion, but I'm guessing here.

As for the "instant" ballot screaming and strike cries, this is the time to tell Bassa what (on the wish list) you'd be prepared to give up. Not easy, as we know, but seriously, this is the time.

Gg

Erm but didn't you say

Having cake and eating it, rather like the BASSA proposal.

The only cries for an instant ballot will be if Walsh pushes his luck.

The BASSA initiatives are innovative and gives BA a lot of cash. BA's proposals are industrial vandalism.

We are all fed up with Walsh's lies and scaremongering. Time to back off or those 800 management volunteers will be wasting their time.

By the way, most of the people who have volunteered to work for free are employees most vulnerable for the chop. Remember Walsh wanted 1400 to go before Xmas and got less than 700.

What copying the BALPA deal (except forgetting the 20% allowance cut) then taking the management redundancy deal (cos its better), giving concessions on crewing for an aircraft that BA wont have next spring and offering back to backs that would actually increase costs to BA

Yup innovative is the word alright.

Not really Hotel. B to B's reduce the head count.

They did before the 900hr rule, now the saving is very marginal given the expenses, especially as the number of new contract crew has increased. Adding more would just get crew to 900hrs quicker.

But you want B2Bs to have 4 days MBTR?

Welcome back SP, does this mean PiB will be away for a while? ;)

B2Bs are expensive! Why do you think some crew haven't done one in months? Because BA is giving nightstops on the eats coast instead because it's a cheaper alternative.

Middle Eastern B2Bs also seems as a very expensive alternative.

Scheduling a crew member to do a 3 day KWI with two days off followed by a 3 day RUH with two days off is a lot cheaper than letting them to a 6 day B2B to DXB and JED which includes B2B payment, LHR accommodation and THREE days off.

These Middle Eastern trips would also only include CAI, DXB, JED, KWI and RUH because BAH/DOH and AUH/MCT are double sectors and cannot be part of a B2B.

BASSA also mentions Turkey in its proposal. Does it mean IST would come over to WW?

I think crew on part time contracts will find they are rostered more B to B's because the 900 hour rule is not pro rata.

Walsh has got to think what sort of airline he wants. If he and Bill Francis think that these changes will not make any difference to the service standards, then they are deluding themselves. Some years ago BA reduced the crew compliment on the 747-100/200 down to 13. Didn't last long as the complaints soon flooded in, so it went back up to 15 again and even 16 on some routes.

BA has got to decide which market it is in. We are already disadvantaged against Asian carriers who have more crew and a better product. The only thing that has given BA a competitive edge are the cabin crew; food and the product such as GMIS IFE is poor in comparisom. If BA cannot sell on service, it will have to discount even more.

Watch Walsh pile all the savings into one good year a la Aer Lingus, and then buzz off as it all falls apart.

Over Stress. Poof has PM'd me that he has been gagged again for saying naughty things about the pilots this time

Why do you think that is? Do you know what they earn and what their agreements look like? Of course they have more crew because they are paid a lot less!

SP,

A couple of things...

Peeps are already calling for strike on CF and ballots.

You claim service will be awful if crew levels are cut. Howcome it works at LGW then? Do we provide an awful service? No. We have fantastic reactions from our pax, so I'm afraid you can't really get anywhere with that one.

Gg

I think they got their dodgy atlas out again, the same one they used when they suggested routing to MEX via BGI.

This bits good too Global linear marks? 40E 20N is a coordinate not a box.

Gg. I travel frequently out of LGW and LHR to the same destination. The LGW crews are not as good on this route. You hear things like "there is only three of us sir", "I can't get it now as we haven't got time"......

As for longhaul, well it was not that great at the start and for many months after. Hopefully after three years peope know what they are doing. I have not flown longhaul out of LGW, but I have heard that the crews work very hard to achieve a fine service.

The main difference is that the SFG was a holding pool for LHR, what will happen to morale if there is no chance to transfer?. Crew at LHR want to be there and it shows in the service.

Service will not be a problem if the crewing level is cut. It's not only about the number of crew that matters but also the ATTITUDE of the crew. They do it splendidly at LGW and look at the response from our customers. The vast majority says the service LGW is far superior than LHR.

It makes me think. If they reduce the crewing level at LHR, where the service is less superiour than LGW, think how awful the service must become? If crew comes to work with this attitude of course it will have an affect on the service.

Stall Pusher, it shows in the service you say. It certainly does. On my last trip, a night stop in the US, the CSD said if we could complete the service within a certain time we would get 80 minutes crew rest but the service had to be done quickly!

I do not know Nuigini why you seem to delight in shopping your colleagues publicly here?

From your comments if I was a CSD, I would not do anything where someone like you would run into the office or write it here for all to see.

Don't kid yourself NG, crews at LGW always thought they were better than LHR. I was at LGW for 10 years.

It is a shame that promotion has been killed and most Main Crew will never make Purser, let alone Cabin Manager/Premium Service Mgr. Definitely not a career anymore.

Well, SP, on short haul it is difficult sometimes with only 3 crew, especially when you compare it with 5(possibly) on the same route from LHR.

Of course we had teething problems 3 years ago. You guys have had so many years to rehearse as such, where as we were thrown in at the deep end. Things are running smoothly now and have done for quite some time. I think we've done exeptionally well considering the diversity we've had to go through.

Gg