"Best passenger..."
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flapsforty
Well, I think this is a bit off the original thread but, since you ask....
Ummm... I don't think I said the other drills were "useless" but I admit that I believe the ditching/demo drills are really wishful thinking. They were originally used when flying boats were the favourite method of transport. Despite what people think, a flying boat or seaplane can't just set down in any old sea condition...it has to be reasonably calm but, a ditching was thought to be survivable and probably was....
So what qualifications do I have to support my thoughts?
Well, as a Private Pilot who flys across water in a Single Engine a/c regularly, a few years ago I did "Dunker" survival training in Southampton. You have probably done the same as CC?
If you did, you will know that it all looks quite fun from the poolside but, when you're in the thing it's a very different experience....and that's in calm warm water. I am also a scuba diving instructor. Now we don't dive in "heavy" seas but we do dive in large "swells". As I've floated in the water after a dive waiting to be picked-up, I've often mused on whether I could ditch my light A/C safely in such conditions....I have to say I have not been confident...! Now imagine a 747-400 or 777. Even with a tail first ditching technique the deceleration from , let's say 100kts, is going to be massive especially when the engines "dig-in". Add complete and utter fear for self and family, shock, disbelief and an a/c that has probably broken apart on landing, possibly freezing cold water at night.....and so on.
Having said all that, I think there probably is a point to the demo if it helps to save just one life and it's only 5 mins anyway!
I suppose my point really is that to show it all as a pleasant little stroll through the a/c is deception. But, then again, given the statisical chance of ditching,maybe it's best if the majority of the travelling public just don't know....
If you really want to frighten yourself about surviveability, read GA Safety Sense Leaflet 21A from the CAA website. It's all about ditching Light a/c.
Well, I think this is a bit off the original thread but, since you ask....
Ummm... I don't think I said the other drills were "useless" but I admit that I believe the ditching/demo drills are really wishful thinking. They were originally used when flying boats were the favourite method of transport. Despite what people think, a flying boat or seaplane can't just set down in any old sea condition...it has to be reasonably calm but, a ditching was thought to be survivable and probably was....
So what qualifications do I have to support my thoughts?
Well, as a Private Pilot who flys across water in a Single Engine a/c regularly, a few years ago I did "Dunker" survival training in Southampton. You have probably done the same as CC?
If you did, you will know that it all looks quite fun from the poolside but, when you're in the thing it's a very different experience....and that's in calm warm water. I am also a scuba diving instructor. Now we don't dive in "heavy" seas but we do dive in large "swells". As I've floated in the water after a dive waiting to be picked-up, I've often mused on whether I could ditch my light A/C safely in such conditions....I have to say I have not been confident...! Now imagine a 747-400 or 777. Even with a tail first ditching technique the deceleration from , let's say 100kts, is going to be massive especially when the engines "dig-in". Add complete and utter fear for self and family, shock, disbelief and an a/c that has probably broken apart on landing, possibly freezing cold water at night.....and so on.
Having said all that, I think there probably is a point to the demo if it helps to save just one life and it's only 5 mins anyway!
I suppose my point really is that to show it all as a pleasant little stroll through the a/c is deception. But, then again, given the statisical chance of ditching,maybe it's best if the majority of the travelling public just don't know....
If you really want to frighten yourself about surviveability, read GA Safety Sense Leaflet 21A from the CAA website. It's all about ditching Light a/c.
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the gravy stroke™
well i've read all the posts and i still dont watch the demos. yeah yeah i heard what you said but still...listen.. my inate sense of cowardice and self-preservation enures that in the event of emergency a hostie 25 rows in front of me who even thinks about blowing that slide will have the thought interrupted mid-way from branium to gold-bangle-encrusted wrist by the arrival of my size 10 boot appearing in front of her face as if by magic as I transport myself out the exit to a location at least 200m away from the flaming wreckage without my fat white arse touching the ground or spilling my CC and dry and all the while continuing my mobile call to lady-friend with broker announcing hot deal on call-waiting.
so who cares if the demo plays or not... i'm alright and the rest can follow me. instinct will prevail let me assure you and we all live to run away another day. nuff said
gravy™
For those not familiar with our resident troll, be aware that his idea of having a ball is to try very hard to appear the anthitesis of a C/A. Do yourself a favor and ignore him.
Flyblue
so who cares if the demo plays or not... i'm alright and the rest can follow me. instinct will prevail let me assure you and we all live to run away another day. nuff said
gravy™
For those not familiar with our resident troll, be aware that his idea of having a ball is to try very hard to appear the anthitesis of a C/A. Do yourself a favor and ignore him.
Flyblue
Last edited by flyblue; 30th Apr 2003 at 01:56.
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Strake,
I think that the ditching drills are very useful as a guideline. In many of the ditching cases I studied during my safety courses, the airplane somehow broke into 2 or more pieces or was flooded, but the people who managed to survive did so because they had followed those guidelines. Like in the Minerva Airlines accident in Genoa,1999, where the aircraft was submerged after overrunning the runway. The C/A was instantly killed, and one pax managed to swim to the door and open it thus saving the lives of most of the pax. Do you think he could have done it if he hadn't had a look at the safety briefing/safety card?
Of course an accident happens seldom the way you studied it on the manual! But by becoming familiar with the ideal steps you should be more prepared if/when it happens. That's why I am an avid reader of accident reports. My company issues a safety bulletin with the reports of all our accidents/incidents and all the other's more instructive ones, which I find very useful.
I think that the ditching drills are very useful as a guideline. In many of the ditching cases I studied during my safety courses, the airplane somehow broke into 2 or more pieces or was flooded, but the people who managed to survive did so because they had followed those guidelines. Like in the Minerva Airlines accident in Genoa,1999, where the aircraft was submerged after overrunning the runway. The C/A was instantly killed, and one pax managed to swim to the door and open it thus saving the lives of most of the pax. Do you think he could have done it if he hadn't had a look at the safety briefing/safety card?
Of course an accident happens seldom the way you studied it on the manual! But by becoming familiar with the ideal steps you should be more prepared if/when it happens. That's why I am an avid reader of accident reports. My company issues a safety bulletin with the reports of all our accidents/incidents and all the other's more instructive ones, which I find very useful.
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Us decent chaps that went to proper schools and were beaten regularly by the Latin master know all about this sort of thing.
Gravy doesn't know because he's not the right sort of chap! Not his fault, it's all in the breeding you know.
Must say I'm jolly surprised that you popsies know a bit about Latin - presumably you picked some up in the domestic science lessons?
Gravy doesn't know because he's not the right sort of chap! Not his fault, it's all in the breeding you know.
Must say I'm jolly surprised that you popsies know a bit about Latin - presumably you picked some up in the domestic science lessons?
