indian and arab passengers !!
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Having been in the industry for more years than I care to mention and having worked all over the place in several countries all i will say is that it doesn't matter where you are in the world there will always be pax that piss you off!
The BIG difference here is that many of these pax are less educated and do not know any better, nor do they mean any harm.
Most of the Indian/ Pakistani pax and SOME Arab pax are labourers ( talking about gulf region here) who work their ass off for 2 years straight, get paid peanuts, are treated like SxxT and are then allowed home for a month or two. SOME of them get drunk on the free booze, not because they have been given too much but because they don't know how to handle it! They give it the "sister sister " bit because they don't know any better. They tug at your uniform because they don't know how to say excuse me!
A lot of the Arab pax are VERY particular because that is THEIR upbringing. This is culture differences and to be honest, whilst I have had many "rude" pax of this ilk, the rudest pax I ever had was a Brit on a charter from LTN who argued with me the whole flight everytime I passed by him, during the service...he was this and that and he would have me sacked and out of the industry forever etc etc....
The reason: our currency conversion was 0.10 more than his!
(For all you young pups out there...treat it as good character building stuff. Don't be so prejudiced. )
I rest my case
The BIG difference here is that many of these pax are less educated and do not know any better, nor do they mean any harm.
Most of the Indian/ Pakistani pax and SOME Arab pax are labourers ( talking about gulf region here) who work their ass off for 2 years straight, get paid peanuts, are treated like SxxT and are then allowed home for a month or two. SOME of them get drunk on the free booze, not because they have been given too much but because they don't know how to handle it! They give it the "sister sister " bit because they don't know any better. They tug at your uniform because they don't know how to say excuse me!
A lot of the Arab pax are VERY particular because that is THEIR upbringing. This is culture differences and to be honest, whilst I have had many "rude" pax of this ilk, the rudest pax I ever had was a Brit on a charter from LTN who argued with me the whole flight everytime I passed by him, during the service...he was this and that and he would have me sacked and out of the industry forever etc etc....
The reason: our currency conversion was 0.10 more than his!
(For all you young pups out there...treat it as good character building stuff. Don't be so prejudiced. )
I rest my case
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I was not talking about the labourers, they are harmless and a good laugh actually, I'm talking about the "EDUCATED" indian pax... they are the worst and they are responsible for me being "prejudiced", I admit it !
Shock horror
Shock horror
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Well said bubbette!
Gtadxb...well, I sincerely hope you are flying in an area where you comments and prejudice are safe.
You are out of order!
Moderators please!
and furthermore gtadxb...how do you know that the labourers are NOT educated! Many of them are! Maybe not in the english language to please idiots like you, but a lot of them have gone to high school and college.
Look at you and your matching shoes!
Gtadxb...well, I sincerely hope you are flying in an area where you comments and prejudice are safe.
You are out of order!
Moderators please!
and furthermore gtadxb...how do you know that the labourers are NOT educated! Many of them are! Maybe not in the english language to please idiots like you, but a lot of them have gone to high school and college.
Look at you and your matching shoes!
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homesick rae and Bubbette
Climb down from your moral high horse's and realize that these issues can be discussed.
I live in the middle east and let me tell you that the arab can be the most racist , rude and arrogant SOB in the world. So before you shoot your mouths off with your "Boo Hoo" attitude, get some time in and educate yourselves. You obviously don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.
Climb down from your moral high horse's and realize that these issues can be discussed.
I live in the middle east and let me tell you that the arab can be the most racist , rude and arrogant SOB in the world. So before you shoot your mouths off with your "Boo Hoo" attitude, get some time in and educate yourselves. You obviously don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.
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Speaking as an unashamed WASP (an SLF one) I have come across lots of negativity towards Indian and Arab passengers, especially in the Middle East.
If you're travelling Europe-MidEast-Subcon and you don't speak English or Arabic, you'll have some difficulty with your transfer. No airport signs in Hindi for example. If I wanted to do a transfer after an 8 hour flight in a strange airport at 3 am and there were no airport signs in English, I'd probably be pretty upset/demanding as well!
I've heard of Gulf Air flights from the Gulf to India and everyone moans about how trashy the aircraft are, how people sit anywhere, how the toilets are always overflowing into the aisles etc - and that this is somehow a fault of the passengers! Bollocks. It's the airline's fault, people - for not maintaining the cabin, for not enforcing seat assignments (if your seat number is written in a different script to your language, how wouuld you find your seat!?) and for not performing mx on the loos.
Look at what GF are doing now - all economy 767s (which are already extremely tatty inside) to India.....cram em in, no service, airborne buses, "the Indians are used to it".
Horrible attitude.
If you're travelling Europe-MidEast-Subcon and you don't speak English or Arabic, you'll have some difficulty with your transfer. No airport signs in Hindi for example. If I wanted to do a transfer after an 8 hour flight in a strange airport at 3 am and there were no airport signs in English, I'd probably be pretty upset/demanding as well!
I've heard of Gulf Air flights from the Gulf to India and everyone moans about how trashy the aircraft are, how people sit anywhere, how the toilets are always overflowing into the aisles etc - and that this is somehow a fault of the passengers! Bollocks. It's the airline's fault, people - for not maintaining the cabin, for not enforcing seat assignments (if your seat number is written in a different script to your language, how wouuld you find your seat!?) and for not performing mx on the loos.
Look at what GF are doing now - all economy 767s (which are already extremely tatty inside) to India.....cram em in, no service, airborne buses, "the Indians are used to it".
Horrible attitude.
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homesick rae,
I don't think we Mods should take action against that thread.
A Forum is a chance for people of debating issues, even if controversial ones like this thread's. It's not hiding problems that they'll go away. If we were to censor it, people who hold prejudice against Arabs-Indians would keep thinking the same. Instead, a place where getting to know other people's experiences, ideas and thoughts could maybe make them change their mind, or see the problem under a different light. Have you noticed that we have here people that are saying Arab -Indians are difficult pax and others saying that they are just as any pax: with the normal rate of nice people/nuisance as any other kind? Don't you think the first group will be brought to wonder what what makes that difference? See different points of view?
I believe we should talk about controversial issues. It's not making racism a taboo that it will go away. It needs to be discussed. Ignorance is the killer . And the best we can do to fight it is to share our knowledge and stress those moral values that cannot be overlooked.
Of course if a post were really offending it would be deleted, and possibly action would be taken against the offender, like it is the rule on pprune.
I don't think we Mods should take action against that thread.
A Forum is a chance for people of debating issues, even if controversial ones like this thread's. It's not hiding problems that they'll go away. If we were to censor it, people who hold prejudice against Arabs-Indians would keep thinking the same. Instead, a place where getting to know other people's experiences, ideas and thoughts could maybe make them change their mind, or see the problem under a different light. Have you noticed that we have here people that are saying Arab -Indians are difficult pax and others saying that they are just as any pax: with the normal rate of nice people/nuisance as any other kind? Don't you think the first group will be brought to wonder what what makes that difference? See different points of view?
I believe we should talk about controversial issues. It's not making racism a taboo that it will go away. It needs to be discussed. Ignorance is the killer . And the best we can do to fight it is to share our knowledge and stress those moral values that cannot be overlooked.
Of course if a post were really offending it would be deleted, and possibly action would be taken against the offender, like it is the rule on pprune.
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Hello
I am quite amused by these barbs at "educated Indian passengers". Yes there can be occasional incidents of peopel being "excited" but then Indians do not have a monopoly on that as some of you tend to make out. Quite a lot of it is the attitude which atleast some of the crew have almost I would go as far to say "indoctrinated" as tho the "horror" flights to the Indian sub continent (as seems to be a pre conception the starter of the thread seems to have had in the first place!).
I fly fairly regularly out of India, the last one was on a middle eastern carrier from India to UK transitting enroute, and there were no such "horror incidents" at all. Infact I will be frank, even I was indoctrinated, advised to fly any western airline non stop/transitting via Europe because , this might be interresting to many of you here, the impression in the market given is "there is one level of service from India to the gulf and another level of service from the Gulf to UK". And this I have been hearing for years!
Well to come to my expereince , I decided to go ahgead anyway, to fly via Middle East, despite the stories I have heard, because the connnections were good and I wanted to avoid going all the way to MAA or BOM.
Well my experience! The flight to the middle east was full of Indian passengers- whatever classification you may give. The service was impeccable, not what I was told to expect, and the behaviour from the pax was also impeccable. Infact all the way to the UK the service was excellent without any differentiation which makes me think, whether to tell all the people who advised me NOT to fly via Gulf, that they were wrong!
But NOW, reading a minority of your posts, can you blame me in wondering whether this incident was a one off?
And also some body said about language problems. On the flight out of India, there was this eloquent annoucement that "other than English and Arabic, the crew also speaks Thai, French, Nepali and Spanish". Very impressive, but I did wonder considering that the airline concerned flies daily to where I started my trip and also since forecasting the profile in that particular flight (about which passenger speaks what in the flight) does not need a SUPER BRAIN, atleast the welcome /good bye message could also be pre recorded in the native tongue! I was gladly acting as a transalator to my seatmate, a first time travller who didnot unfortunately understand any of the numerous languages advertised as spoken , neither do I say that you should have crew proficient in all the languages of the world on the off chance that someone who knows only that language is on board, buit is it too much to have atleast a few "essential messages" atleast pre recorded on a language which is the mother tongue of 95% of the people on the flight day in day out?
To sum up, for the minority of you who seem to be intent on criticising a particular crowd of people, all I can say is it works both ways! You get what you deserve!
A posting from a SLF who travlled on a route in question,
And thanks to the crew and the airline who really made both both legs of my first flight with them one of the most memorable and with whom I will fly certainly fly again.
Cheers
From "an EDUCATED INDIAN PAX"
I am quite amused by these barbs at "educated Indian passengers". Yes there can be occasional incidents of peopel being "excited" but then Indians do not have a monopoly on that as some of you tend to make out. Quite a lot of it is the attitude which atleast some of the crew have almost I would go as far to say "indoctrinated" as tho the "horror" flights to the Indian sub continent (as seems to be a pre conception the starter of the thread seems to have had in the first place!).
I fly fairly regularly out of India, the last one was on a middle eastern carrier from India to UK transitting enroute, and there were no such "horror incidents" at all. Infact I will be frank, even I was indoctrinated, advised to fly any western airline non stop/transitting via Europe because , this might be interresting to many of you here, the impression in the market given is "there is one level of service from India to the gulf and another level of service from the Gulf to UK". And this I have been hearing for years!
Well to come to my expereince , I decided to go ahgead anyway, to fly via Middle East, despite the stories I have heard, because the connnections were good and I wanted to avoid going all the way to MAA or BOM.
Well my experience! The flight to the middle east was full of Indian passengers- whatever classification you may give. The service was impeccable, not what I was told to expect, and the behaviour from the pax was also impeccable. Infact all the way to the UK the service was excellent without any differentiation which makes me think, whether to tell all the people who advised me NOT to fly via Gulf, that they were wrong!
But NOW, reading a minority of your posts, can you blame me in wondering whether this incident was a one off?
And also some body said about language problems. On the flight out of India, there was this eloquent annoucement that "other than English and Arabic, the crew also speaks Thai, French, Nepali and Spanish". Very impressive, but I did wonder considering that the airline concerned flies daily to where I started my trip and also since forecasting the profile in that particular flight (about which passenger speaks what in the flight) does not need a SUPER BRAIN, atleast the welcome /good bye message could also be pre recorded in the native tongue! I was gladly acting as a transalator to my seatmate, a first time travller who didnot unfortunately understand any of the numerous languages advertised as spoken , neither do I say that you should have crew proficient in all the languages of the world on the off chance that someone who knows only that language is on board, buit is it too much to have atleast a few "essential messages" atleast pre recorded on a language which is the mother tongue of 95% of the people on the flight day in day out?
To sum up, for the minority of you who seem to be intent on criticising a particular crowd of people, all I can say is it works both ways! You get what you deserve!
A posting from a SLF who travlled on a route in question,
And thanks to the crew and the airline who really made both both legs of my first flight with them one of the most memorable and with whom I will fly certainly fly again.
Cheers
From "an EDUCATED INDIAN PAX"
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Fair comment flyblue!
Saudipc9...." i live in the middle east blah blah blah"
Of course I have absoulutely NO idea what I am talking about!
I only lived there for 14 years!
Wouldn't have a clue............
Oh AND I still do some work out there on occasion...
So you are right...
wouldn't have a clue....
Saudipc9...." i live in the middle east blah blah blah"
Of course I have absoulutely NO idea what I am talking about!
I only lived there for 14 years!
Wouldn't have a clue............
Oh AND I still do some work out there on occasion...
So you are right...
wouldn't have a clue....
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homesick rae,
Well if you did live in the Middle East you certainly did not learn very much about the Arab and in particular the Saudi Arab!!!
On a one on one basis they can be very nice people. As a group the arrogance and ignorance displayed by them knows no bounds.
So is that a racist comment??
Yes you are right it is their up bringing. They also hate Jews/Americans and wish them all dead. That is their up bringing too. Is that an excuse for their behaviour????
A few weeks ago one shot and killed a workmate of mine while sitting at a set of traffic lights, leaving behind a wife and two children. Ahhh yes homesick it's their up bringing so don't blame them. BOOOO HOOOO
So you don't have a clue homesick!! Things are not the same as to what they might have been when you were out here!
Well if you did live in the Middle East you certainly did not learn very much about the Arab and in particular the Saudi Arab!!!
On a one on one basis they can be very nice people. As a group the arrogance and ignorance displayed by them knows no bounds.
So is that a racist comment??
A lot of the Arab pax are VERY particular because that is THEIR upbringing
A few weeks ago one shot and killed a workmate of mine while sitting at a set of traffic lights, leaving behind a wife and two children. Ahhh yes homesick it's their up bringing so don't blame them. BOOOO HOOOO
So you don't have a clue homesick!! Things are not the same as to what they might have been when you were out here!
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Flyblue has summed up very well the active thinking into why we have left this thread alone... it is essentially an airing of views and prejudices held and relevant to the cabin crew job. She has put the reasons far more eloquently than I, but to re-iterate the views exist, are a common currency (mythology, perhaps?) and yes it is slightly controversial to keep such a discussion open and in public, but we have made the choice to do so; if we don't then the mythology merely grows without any opposition.
We are not without boundaries mind you, and before this descends into the morass of cultural relativism that it has the potential to, let me just outline a couple of them.
We will not tolerate "companions in guilt" arguments; Flyblue has stated a case based on the relevance and value of this discussion continuing. The argument "well if you are allowing this, why don't we talk about THEM" is specious, doesn't hold water, and we will be pro-active in preventing that. Lets not widen the debate into one that "bashes" as it has the potential to.
Second, if it does offend you to see this in print, ask yourself two questions; "why?" and "How can I change things?" Turning your back, and deleting or otherwise hiding this away will not alter the fact that these debates take place in the galleys around the World. Engage, and change.... don't run away.
I don't normally get involved directly in debates as a moderator, only where I have something positive to add ased on actual experience relevant to the debate. As an example in this case, it may help people to understand behaviour better when they are told for instance that the cry of "sister, sister" literally derives from the Hindi honorific term "behen-ji" used to refer to a woman, and is not in any way a form of insult.
Without this debate, and that little piece of information, how long would it take you to work that one out? There is one simple practical example of what we attempt, and why we will sometimes take a chance.
Sick Squid
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We are not without boundaries mind you, and before this descends into the morass of cultural relativism that it has the potential to, let me just outline a couple of them.
We will not tolerate "companions in guilt" arguments; Flyblue has stated a case based on the relevance and value of this discussion continuing. The argument "well if you are allowing this, why don't we talk about THEM" is specious, doesn't hold water, and we will be pro-active in preventing that. Lets not widen the debate into one that "bashes" as it has the potential to.
Second, if it does offend you to see this in print, ask yourself two questions; "why?" and "How can I change things?" Turning your back, and deleting or otherwise hiding this away will not alter the fact that these debates take place in the galleys around the World. Engage, and change.... don't run away.
I don't normally get involved directly in debates as a moderator, only where I have something positive to add ased on actual experience relevant to the debate. As an example in this case, it may help people to understand behaviour better when they are told for instance that the cry of "sister, sister" literally derives from the Hindi honorific term "behen-ji" used to refer to a woman, and is not in any way a form of insult.
Without this debate, and that little piece of information, how long would it take you to work that one out? There is one simple practical example of what we attempt, and why we will sometimes take a chance.
Sick Squid
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well said sick squid!
i am talking about in-flight and pax i have had to deal with...
fyi, i also have many arab friends in and outside of the industry including saudis who might not totally agree with previous comments.
saudipc9: i lived in saudi as well and my opinion of the saudi arab is different from yours so let's just leave it at that. to me you are simply wanting a slanging match...well you won't get it.
you know nothing about my life in the mid east and vice versa but your attitude belongs somewhere north of Saudi...work that one out for yourself!
i am talking about in-flight and pax i have had to deal with...
fyi, i also have many arab friends in and outside of the industry including saudis who might not totally agree with previous comments.
saudipc9: i lived in saudi as well and my opinion of the saudi arab is different from yours so let's just leave it at that. to me you are simply wanting a slanging match...well you won't get it.
you know nothing about my life in the mid east and vice versa but your attitude belongs somewhere north of Saudi...work that one out for yourself!
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A slanging match homesick? No not at all! Just pointing out the obvious errors in your position.
By the way:
You have just demonstrated your ignorance and where you stand on the deaths of many innocent men, women and children. Including 3000 odd a couple of years ago.
Anyway, let's put this one to bed. OK!
By the way:
your attitude belongs somewhere north of Saudi...work that one out for yourself!
Anyway, let's put this one to bed. OK!
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homesick,
Well I , like I'm sure most people on this thread, have no idea what you are talking about!
Anyway, all the best and I do mean that!
Well I , like I'm sure most people on this thread, have no idea what you are talking about!
Anyway, all the best
and I do mean that!
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thanks gtadxb and saudipc9 for putting it into words better than I did. you know what i was trying to say previously.
it is not, as some ignoramuses around here would say, about 'racism' a much over-used and misappropriated term. rather it is sometimes about culturalism. not too many true racists out there but plenty of people who are offended by other peoples' ways of doing things. ie culture. eg capital punishment of hanging from a crane in public, stonings, etc. very civilised. shooting ex-pats at traffic lights. hitting the accelerator when you see one crossing the street, etc. Hey I'm just naming a few examples of what goes on up there. is that 'racist' of me?
i dont know who offends me more the 'educated...etc' pax spoken of before and their ilk from similar cultures or the morons who know not of what they speak around here, hysterically labelling all and sundry racists. Ive dealt with these pax on many flights i think i know what im talking about unlike some others around here.
maybe it IS their upbringing. people from certain overcrowded countries (if i name one im a racist according to HKL etc) are brought up to use their elbows to get what they want then maintain a deathgrip on it to keep it. people from some other perhaps western cultures sometimes find that offensive but are racist as a result according to HKL etc. every FA i know that has done a BHX flight from the m/east hates it because of who we fly there and what theyre like as demanding rude pax. what a bunch of nasty racists. funny but ive been called a racist by one of them for informing her she could not have an upgrade from economy to business.
i dont know if homesick rae really did spend anytime in the M/east but if so it definitely wasnt as a FA or she'd know. meantime grow up.
just telling it like it is folks.
it is not, as some ignoramuses around here would say, about 'racism' a much over-used and misappropriated term. rather it is sometimes about culturalism. not too many true racists out there but plenty of people who are offended by other peoples' ways of doing things. ie culture. eg capital punishment of hanging from a crane in public, stonings, etc. very civilised. shooting ex-pats at traffic lights. hitting the accelerator when you see one crossing the street, etc. Hey I'm just naming a few examples of what goes on up there. is that 'racist' of me?
i dont know who offends me more the 'educated...etc' pax spoken of before and their ilk from similar cultures or the morons who know not of what they speak around here, hysterically labelling all and sundry racists. Ive dealt with these pax on many flights i think i know what im talking about unlike some others around here.
maybe it IS their upbringing. people from certain overcrowded countries (if i name one im a racist according to HKL etc) are brought up to use their elbows to get what they want then maintain a deathgrip on it to keep it. people from some other perhaps western cultures sometimes find that offensive but are racist as a result according to HKL etc. every FA i know that has done a BHX flight from the m/east hates it because of who we fly there and what theyre like as demanding rude pax. what a bunch of nasty racists. funny but ive been called a racist by one of them for informing her she could not have an upgrade from economy to business.
i dont know if homesick rae really did spend anytime in the M/east but if so it definitely wasnt as a FA or she'd know. meantime grow up.
just telling it like it is folks.