Over-reliance on English language
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jensdad, in an ideal world, things would be as you describe. CC able to communicate with the pax in the pax's own language on every flight.
Most legacy airlines still put a premium on hiring cabin crew who speak more than one language, and (financially and or with making languages a requirement for promotion) stimulate their CC to speak as many languages as possible.
However, in the real world, regulations and cost-minimising are two very deciding factors,
Regulations, as in the law, used to be regarded as a minimum standard in civil aviation. Airlines used to provide a much better standard than what the law required. In most every area of the operation.
These days it is very different; many airlines view the minimum regulations regulations as the standard to strive for.
That goes for maintenance, it goes for pilot training, it goes for service standards in the cabin, for baggage handling, for the amount and quality of the food served and for most every other aspect of the business.
It is a practice commonly known among airline employees as "the race to the bottom".
Providing anything more than what the law requires adds extra costs.
Hiring people with language skills is pricier than hiring people who only speak one language. Paying your CC to add new languages or to maintain the ones they already have, costs money.
With passengers scouring the net for the cheapest tickets available, extra costs are the very LAST thing an airline is looking for.
If the pax aren´t willing to pay for it, and the law doesn´t require it, fewer and fewer airlines will be spending money on cabin crew who speak more than their native language plus English.
What does the law say?
In your example, it is a UK based airline, so we´ll limit this to European regulations.
Slightly simplified, the rules and regulations governing cabin crew are based on JAR-OPS 1.
That´s it:
1) CC must have a common language
2) CC must understand their ops manual
Passengers wanting cheap seats need to realise that an airline offering those seats can and will provide nothing more than the minimum legal requirements.
Which is fair enough, since it is the only way any airline can offer those cheap seats.
Most legacy airlines still put a premium on hiring cabin crew who speak more than one language, and (financially and or with making languages a requirement for promotion) stimulate their CC to speak as many languages as possible.
However, in the real world, regulations and cost-minimising are two very deciding factors,
Regulations, as in the law, used to be regarded as a minimum standard in civil aviation. Airlines used to provide a much better standard than what the law required. In most every area of the operation.
These days it is very different; many airlines view the minimum regulations regulations as the standard to strive for.
That goes for maintenance, it goes for pilot training, it goes for service standards in the cabin, for baggage handling, for the amount and quality of the food served and for most every other aspect of the business.
It is a practice commonly known among airline employees as "the race to the bottom".
Providing anything more than what the law requires adds extra costs.
Hiring people with language skills is pricier than hiring people who only speak one language. Paying your CC to add new languages or to maintain the ones they already have, costs money.
With passengers scouring the net for the cheapest tickets available, extra costs are the very LAST thing an airline is looking for.
If the pax aren´t willing to pay for it, and the law doesn´t require it, fewer and fewer airlines will be spending money on cabin crew who speak more than their native language plus English.
What does the law say?
In your example, it is a UK based airline, so we´ll limit this to European regulations.
Slightly simplified, the rules and regulations governing cabin crew are based on JAR-OPS 1.
There are no regulatory requirements regarding the minimum language skills of the individual members of the Cabin Crew. However, JAR-OPS Subpart B 1.025 “Common language” requirements does apply to all Crew members: i) an operator must ensure that all crew members can communicate in a common language and ii) an operator must ensure that all operations personnel are able to understand the language in the Operations Manual which pertain to their duties and responsibilities.
1) CC must have a common language
2) CC must understand their ops manual
Passengers wanting cheap seats need to realise that an airline offering those seats can and will provide nothing more than the minimum legal requirements.
Which is fair enough, since it is the only way any airline can offer those cheap seats.
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Raw nerves on view ?
That, at least, is my take on the robust nature of several replies.
It might be they reply in this way because I am talking nonsense as they claim.
Or it might be that by i) mentioning safety and ii) dicussing scenarios involving lack of communiction between staff and passengers I am mentioning something which "everyone knows about" but "polite" people prefer not to think about.
When I read the safety card and listen to the safety brief (as I did for the last time about 10 days ago) I do always wonder whether it is meaningful since if we slam into the Pyrenees we are unlikely to need our life jackets, with or without whistle and light, irrespective of whether the jacket itself be fully or partially inflated.
If however the information there might just be helpful to my family and I whether a few hundred metres east from BCN or on the tarmac at LHR, I am not convinced that the meaning and the content of shouted instructions and advice will be self evident to all passengers, especially non-English speakers, as the water laps around the door or as the choking black fumes fill the cabin.
On the other hand, should there be four or five hours available to evacuate the plane, as with the Costa Concordia, then my fears are obviously groundless as mime and improvisation will be available to supplement the unfortunate lack of language skills and EU regulations demanding them.
It might be they reply in this way because I am talking nonsense as they claim.
Or it might be that by i) mentioning safety and ii) dicussing scenarios involving lack of communiction between staff and passengers I am mentioning something which "everyone knows about" but "polite" people prefer not to think about.
When I read the safety card and listen to the safety brief (as I did for the last time about 10 days ago) I do always wonder whether it is meaningful since if we slam into the Pyrenees we are unlikely to need our life jackets, with or without whistle and light, irrespective of whether the jacket itself be fully or partially inflated.
If however the information there might just be helpful to my family and I whether a few hundred metres east from BCN or on the tarmac at LHR, I am not convinced that the meaning and the content of shouted instructions and advice will be self evident to all passengers, especially non-English speakers, as the water laps around the door or as the choking black fumes fill the cabin.
On the other hand, should there be four or five hours available to evacuate the plane, as with the Costa Concordia, then my fears are obviously groundless as mime and improvisation will be available to supplement the unfortunate lack of language skills and EU regulations demanding them.
It might be they reply in this way because I am talking nonsense as they claim.
Or it might be that by i) mentioning safety and ii) dicussing scenarios involving lack of communiction between staff and passengers I am mentioning something which "everyone knows about" but "polite" people prefer not to think about.
ii) I can communicate well flying across Europe and North Africa and have few real issues. A little bit of Spanish helps me from time to time but believe me I reckon communicating on cabin service to be more challenging than communicating in an emergency. As you have already been told, emergency communication is predicated on short, sharp positive commands. With that in mind imagine yourself trying to communicate with someone who doesn't speak your language. a) trying to sell them a drink and a snack and b) Giving short loud commands with gesticulations (i.e actions). The former requires alot more conversational skills where as the latter needs minimal of that. I guess what I am trying to say is..... there is no issue.
I can't think of an incident where the language barrier was cited as an issue.
When I read the safety card and listen to the safety brief (as I did for the last time about 10 days ago) I do always wonder whether it is meaningful since if we slam into the Pyrenees we are unlikely to need our life jackets, with or without whistle and light, irrespective of whether the jacket itself be fully or partially inflated.
If however the information there might just be helpful to my family and I whether a few hundred metres east from BCN or on the tarmac at LHR, I am not convinced that the meaning and the content of shouted instructions and advice will be self evident to all passengers, especially non-English speakers, as the water laps around the door or as the choking black fumes fill the cabin.
On the other hand, should there be four or five hours available to evacuate the plane, as with the Costa Concordia, then my fears are obviously groundless as mime and improvisation will be available to supplement the unfortunate lack of language skills and EU regulations demanding them.
Now I've never said that language speakers aren't handy. They are. Certainly at my airline they can really make things easier. There are lots of speakers across the UK network it's just not prudent nor practical to specifically roster them to particular flights. At out Continental bases they are required to speak the local language but pre-flight briefings, security and emergency procedures & commands are required to be spoken in English.
Think about airlines, particularly hub carriers, who also have multiple languages that originate from no where near where the flight originates or destined for. As examples, In theory both the US A320 in the Hudson and the A343 in YYZ are likely to have had passengers who's languages weren't represented on the crew. Despite that both evacuations were pretty much text book! Remember also that both of those incidents were what we call "unplanned emergencies' which basically means there were no preparation time and so those passengers had just the commands to rely on. There is no reason to suspect they weren't understood.
But even if you have a flight with a language speaker and even if it's on a small/medium jet like the A320, it's not always useful if you're at the rear of the cabin and the language speaker is at the front.
It's incredibly hard for an airline to make money especially when people have an unquenshable thirst for cheap fares but despite the cost cutting I am pretty confident that most airlines and regulatory authorities take safety very seriously and my airline can actually be quiet anal if truth be told. With that in mind I am sure the concerns over the language barrier have been discussed and looked into and deemed to not cause a safety issue.
Do I sometimes wish that we (Brits especially) were better at languages? Yes I do but as more of a courtesy rather than due to any safety concerns I have.
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BigFrank, the beauty of an open bulletin board is that everybody can contribute.
On a specialised bulletin board such as this, there will be a number of professionals contributing, a number of keenly interested people bent on learning more about the subject at hand, and a number of people who enjoy voicing their opinions about subjects they clearly know very little about.
To those who do know what they are talking about, those who don´t stand out very clearly.
You may wish to give that some thought.
On a specialised bulletin board such as this, there will be a number of professionals contributing, a number of keenly interested people bent on learning more about the subject at hand, and a number of people who enjoy voicing their opinions about subjects they clearly know very little about.
To those who do know what they are talking about, those who don´t stand out very clearly.
You may wish to give that some thought.
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Just a thought from another passenger. Some years ago I was returning from Perth to the UK via Singapore, on the flight was an elderly Vietnamese lady who had been visiting her family and who spoke no English. Her family had thoughtfully provided her with some help in the form of a large lump of cardboard with the word "Hanoi" and "No speak English" written on it hung around her neck. For myself, I was horrified by this but could see the point. Fairly early on into the flight one of the cabin crew asked lady what time her flight left Singapore for Hanoi. Blank stare and shrug of shoulders was the response. The cabin crew member tried twice more with the same degree of success. Not wishing to make the CC look silly I tried a bit of lateral thinking and managed to get two possible options for the ETD. I passed this on quietly to the CC who was astounded and wanted to know how I had managed it - I speak even less Vietnamese than the lady did English. "A bit of sign language" was my response. What I had done was say "You, Hanoi?" whilst miming flapping wings, followed by more flapping wings and pointing to my watch and repeating "Hanoi?" We managed a short "conversation " which was great. She had someone who had tried to understand her. By the time we got to Singapore I knew she had several children and she knew roughly where I lived in the UK. I had a big hug from her as she left the aircraft and was delighted to see her in the safe hands of the Ground Staff. It was one of the most rewarding experiences I have had.
Would it not perhaps be a good idea to have such a scenario to deal with on a training day? Not necessarily every training day but from time to time. We had a similar task on a study day for nurses and it was most enlightening.
Would it not perhaps be a good idea to have such a scenario to deal with on a training day? Not necessarily every training day but from time to time. We had a similar task on a study day for nurses and it was most enlightening.
Would it not perhaps be a good idea to have such a scenario to deal with on a training day?
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D X Wombat, you've obviously never seen the Cabin crew miming 'chicken, fish or beef'! You would know then just how great our miming skills are. As to training, we do have some different scenarios for new crew to practice and some do require miming and other random acting.
I once had an unscheduled night stop in Abidjan with a 747 full of Nigerians and a couple of gentlemen who spoke only mandarin. We looked after those two for 36 hours without actually managing to exchange a single word and still got them to the hotel, fed them and got them back on the plane to LHR. I am sure they still think it was an all inclusive tour.
I once had an unscheduled night stop in Abidjan with a 747 full of Nigerians and a couple of gentlemen who spoke only mandarin. We looked after those two for 36 hours without actually managing to exchange a single word and still got them to the hotel, fed them and got them back on the plane to LHR. I am sure they still think it was an all inclusive tour.
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Ottergirl 
Venison or chicken, 24 Japanese salarymen, none of whom spoke anything but.
I ended up doing Bambi on ice in the aisle.
They applauded politely.
And then had the chicken.
Venison or chicken, 24 Japanese salarymen, none of whom spoke anything but.
I ended up doing Bambi on ice in the aisle.
They applauded politely.
And then had the chicken.
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To be fair, that was the only time I have ever seen the need for any miming and I got the impression that this particular group of cabin crew were just not interested in even trying to help the lady - something I had not seen before or, thankfully, since. The lady was a foreigner who didn't speak English, didn't appear to be wealthy. It was the complete lack of effort on the part of everyone, not just the particular crew member, combined with an uneasy feeling that she was simply regarded as a lesser being and therefore not worth bothering with, which made me wonder if they had ever had any training in such matters, hence my suggestion. Should I ever be in that situation again I would exactly the same but do it when the particular person could both see and hear me - politely of course, and hope my message that any effort made by her was particularly poor and simply needed a tiny bit of effort. I KNOW you have a difficult job at times and people are not always as polite and well behaved as they should be but this was simply a case of the lady being unable to understand not being ignorant and it made me cross. Oh, and before anyone asks, it wasn't BA. 
Juud, I wish I had been there to see that.
Juud, I wish I had been there to see that.
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Talk about miming reminds me of one of my trips to Moscow. I avoid international restaurants with menus in 16 languages of the 'We speke Anglish -Wirr sprecken Duetsch - Oons prat Nederland - Nos parlez Francas - Hablos España' type.
I found myself in a little cozy place off Tverskaya with menus only in Russian and of course only in Cyrillic. I can read the Cyrillic alphabet but mostly don't know what the words mean. So I'm reading out the words and the lovely waitress is laughing at my pronounciation but then goes into the 'charades' making animal noises to tell me what I might be eating. The whole restaurant explodes into laughter and soon I'm invited to a table with a doctor who speaks Spanish (from working in Cuba), and his family, and I'm eventually invited to their home. What a lovely experience.
I found myself in a little cozy place off Tverskaya with menus only in Russian and of course only in Cyrillic. I can read the Cyrillic alphabet but mostly don't know what the words mean. So I'm reading out the words and the lovely waitress is laughing at my pronounciation but then goes into the 'charades' making animal noises to tell me what I might be eating. The whole restaurant explodes into laughter and soon I'm invited to a table with a doctor who speaks Spanish (from working in Cuba), and his family, and I'm eventually invited to their home. What a lovely experience.
I ended up doing Bambi on ice in the aisle.
One of my more brainy friends then decided to go to his local 'Early learning Centre' and bought a plastic cow and chicken and would take it on Tokyo flights, stick it on the meal trolley and use the models appropriately. There was never any problem during the meal service. However when BA changed the menu, I'm not sure what happened after that.
Nowadays if that method was used I would see a problem if security pulled out a model and ask what is it?
Last edited by crewmeal; 22nd Jan 2012 at 06:38. Reason: Grammar errors
Those 300 crew who spoke say Italian were not really wanting to spend their whole career operating to places that they already knew, they wanted (unsurprisingly) to see the world.
Did our Japanese CC operate on other routes?
