easyjet F/A fired for reporting the Captain
a FA who go against the authority of a captain has no place in this industry.
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I think we've got the message usualguy - especially since you have essentially repeated your own post, this time with a little added hysteria. I have left your posts visible but restricted your ability to post further on this thread - This is a serious subject that deserves better than teenage rants.
Can't stand snitches
Got her just dues - had enough of uppity cabin crew who thought they ruled the aircraft.
Look at Swissair 111 disaster where the CC were given the only circuit breaker for the pax entertainment system and when it caught fire the flight crew couldn't isolate it.
They had a ignorant habit of continually resetting the system - recipe for disaster - as they didn't know better.
Did two years training b4 I got on line not two weeks...
We had a bright yellow trench coat style raincoat - we looked ridiculous - courtesy of SR cabin crew - the Italians nicknamed us the tennis balls.
Gave it to my mother and she wouldn't even do the gardening in it.
Leave the CC to serve the drinks and evacuate when the flight crew decide.
Got her just dues - had enough of uppity cabin crew who thought they ruled the aircraft.
Look at Swissair 111 disaster where the CC were given the only circuit breaker for the pax entertainment system and when it caught fire the flight crew couldn't isolate it.
They had a ignorant habit of continually resetting the system - recipe for disaster - as they didn't know better.
Did two years training b4 I got on line not two weeks...
We had a bright yellow trench coat style raincoat - we looked ridiculous - courtesy of SR cabin crew - the Italians nicknamed us the tennis balls.
Gave it to my mother and she wouldn't even do the gardening in it.
Leave the CC to serve the drinks and evacuate when the flight crew decide.
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CRM skills ?
I can't help wondering about the CRM skills of some of the pilots who have posted above, in twelve years of flying with cabin crew I have always treated them with respect and have without had that respect reurned.
I have never had to take an issue with a CC member further than a descreet word, however I did have to go to the management about one FO who had such a poor attitude with the CC that I felt it was a a flight safety hazard........... on the very same flight he refused to check an ATC clearance that was in doubt (he got it wrong) and then attempted to take off without clearance.
The CC member who had to take his rudness and abuse got my respect for the way she contunued with her duties dispite the way she was treated, the FO gets no respect what so ever from me for his attitude.
In some posts above I see some of this FO's attitude, it is a very poor pilot who has such a view of the CC, they have their part to play in the safe operation of the aircraft and as pilots we would do well to remember and respect them for that.
I have never had to take an issue with a CC member further than a descreet word, however I did have to go to the management about one FO who had such a poor attitude with the CC that I felt it was a a flight safety hazard........... on the very same flight he refused to check an ATC clearance that was in doubt (he got it wrong) and then attempted to take off without clearance.
The CC member who had to take his rudness and abuse got my respect for the way she contunued with her duties dispite the way she was treated, the FO gets no respect what so ever from me for his attitude.
In some posts above I see some of this FO's attitude, it is a very poor pilot who has such a view of the CC, they have their part to play in the safe operation of the aircraft and as pilots we would do well to remember and respect them for that.
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I never questioned the authority of the commander or chain of command! BUT, captains are NOT Gods, they cannot do as they please! I appreciate that they are far higher trained in all matters relating flight safety than cabin crew are, and never claimed otherwise. The condescending manner some posters above talk about cabin crew, however, suggests that these people don't quite grasp the importance of CRM, as A and C so succintly pointed it out above.
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to Matt101,
in Switzerland we have a so called cockpit permit, which is an offical FOCA (Federal Office of Civil Aviation) form, which enable the commander to admit a person on the jumpseat. I have always one in my crew bag, and when I use it I get a new one the next day. So yes, we lost the common sense on the price of the beer but not on other matters
Ciao,
TOGA 10
in Switzerland we have a so called cockpit permit, which is an offical FOCA (Federal Office of Civil Aviation) form, which enable the commander to admit a person on the jumpseat. I have always one in my crew bag, and when I use it I get a new one the next day. So yes, we lost the common sense on the price of the beer but not on other matters
Ciao,
TOGA 10
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The captain may be "God and the law" rolled into one, but only until the doors open. At that stage, s/he is accountable for everything that s/he has done to a higher authority, namely the ops manual of the company that s/he works for.
Pilots can't "play with rules as much as they want." In fact, any circumstances in which they "play with rules" should be open to scrutiny - if there isn't time during the operation, then afterwards. Otherwise, why bother writing rules and SOPs in the first place? I write this as a pilot.
Nobody likes a snitch. But nobody likes being put in a position where they are compromised by somebody else's disregard for regulations.
Pilots can't "play with rules as much as they want." In fact, any circumstances in which they "play with rules" should be open to scrutiny - if there isn't time during the operation, then afterwards. Otherwise, why bother writing rules and SOPs in the first place? I write this as a pilot.
Nobody likes a snitch. But nobody likes being put in a position where they are compromised by somebody else's disregard for regulations.
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A good Captain is a person who fully understands and readily accepts that whilst the buck may well stop at him/her they are not God, and not even godlike
A good Captain understands that there quite a few things about operating the aircraft that he/she does not fully understand but others on board will.
A Captain that thinks he/she is God, now that is truly scary
A good Captain understands that there quite a few things about operating the aircraft that he/she does not fully understand but others on board will.
A Captain that thinks he/she is God, now that is truly scary
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to Matt101,
in Switzerland we have a so called cockpit permit, which is an official FOCA (Federal Office of Civil Aviation) form, which enable the commander to admit a person on the jumpseat. I have always one in my crew bag, and when I use it I get a new one the next day. So yes, we lost the common sense on the price of the beer but not on other matters
Ciao,
TOGA 10
in Switzerland we have a so called cockpit permit, which is an official FOCA (Federal Office of Civil Aviation) form, which enable the commander to admit a person on the jumpseat. I have always one in my crew bag, and when I use it I get a new one the next day. So yes, we lost the common sense on the price of the beer but not on other matters
Ciao,
TOGA 10
Usualguy, I know tightslot has already dealt with you really but I couldn't stop myself from reading your post and then taking an instant dislike to you and so I have had to have the rant below (I am sorry mods).
a FA who go against the authority of a captain has no place in this industry.
the captain has his crew, his plane ,his license and his power.he has final authority. It 's printed black on white.Even the OFAC can not do anything against the captain' decision.He can even break air laws if he wants.
Easy was right to kick this lady out, she can find another job.
what is the job of a FA ?answer: take care of the cabin. do you have any authority in the cockpit? which one?
if you want take decisions on board of an airplane , become a pilot first, then you can play with rules as much you want.
what is the job of a FA ?answer: take care of the cabin. do you have any authority in the cockpit? which one?
if you want take decisions on board of an airplane , become a pilot first, then you can play with rules as much you want.
I am lucky to have worked on both sides of the metal door to which I often feel we owe a severe dislike. In some ways I think that for the increase in security we have gained from the phase 2 door, we have also lost a level of safety, (a potential blockage for one of those Swiss cheese holes), by dividing physically, and it seems from this thread mentally, the resources onboard.
I've been lucky that the forward/aft CRM has generally been good on all flights, but I wonder if the locked door has lead to a reduction in good practice and an increase in a them and us mentality.
What a shame for us personally, and how dangerous from a safety standpoint.
Yes we all have different roles onboard but we all share the same goal, a safe operation on the day, some posts on this thread would seem to imply the presence of cabin crew is nothing but a hindrance - foolish.
anyway nuff said.....
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As a cabin manager/purser what ever your individual airlines might call my role I would love to meet some of you folks who have made these narrow minded, idiotic and scarily poor CRM comments, and tell you exactly what I think of you, however I would not want to fly with you as my pilot!! I too HATE grasses but like I said if you can make comments like this on a public forum, then your attitude onboard would be of grave concern to me and I would probably not wish to fly with you again.
Blind Pew you state that the CC were to blame for the Swissair 111 disaster?? How many disasters have been caused by pilots not listening to their fellow Cabin or flight crew???
I am lucky enough to fly with some of the nicest flight crew in the industry and i'm pleased so many of you have been disgusted by some of the things that have been said on here!
I pity your opinions and I feel sorry for the wonderful cabin crew you will work with!
Blind Pew you state that the CC were to blame for the Swissair 111 disaster?? How many disasters have been caused by pilots not listening to their fellow Cabin or flight crew???
I am lucky enough to fly with some of the nicest flight crew in the industry and i'm pleased so many of you have been disgusted by some of the things that have been said on here!
I pity your opinions and I feel sorry for the wonderful cabin crew you will work with!
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My take on this goes a bit like Newtons equal and opposite reaction.
"Gods" are infallible, I am not, that's why we have a team of people looking after the safe operation of public transport aircraft, rather than an individual.
That team should be not separated by rank or for that matter the cockpit door, if it is it's integrity is compromised.
I have watched some individuals laying it on thick with the "address me as captain" line with their crew, result being that they (the rest of the crew) felt intimidated ... not good.
There is a time and place for pushing the gold bars to the fore, and stating where the buck stops, but that is truly the last resort, you earn respect over time rather demand it on the spot for ego purposes.
So far as flight deck policy goes, ultimately (in many non UK/US airlines) captains may still use their discretion after consulting the other members of the crew, out of both courtesy and with crew security in mind, it's not something I would just do.
Then again, if any member of my crew had a valid objection it would be taken into account before flight, not stuck in some unseen "report" after the event.
TR
"Gods" are infallible, I am not, that's why we have a team of people looking after the safe operation of public transport aircraft, rather than an individual.
That team should be not separated by rank or for that matter the cockpit door, if it is it's integrity is compromised.
I have watched some individuals laying it on thick with the "address me as captain" line with their crew, result being that they (the rest of the crew) felt intimidated ... not good.
There is a time and place for pushing the gold bars to the fore, and stating where the buck stops, but that is truly the last resort, you earn respect over time rather demand it on the spot for ego purposes.
So far as flight deck policy goes, ultimately (in many non UK/US airlines) captains may still use their discretion after consulting the other members of the crew, out of both courtesy and with crew security in mind, it's not something I would just do.
Then again, if any member of my crew had a valid objection it would be taken into account before flight, not stuck in some unseen "report" after the event.
TR
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Juud. Your post No.17: I am going to read that out, word for word, on every command course I run from now on. I have never, in 26 years of airline training, seen it put better. Absolutely first-class, every sentence.
