BA and Project Columbus III
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How utterly insulting to propose the exact percentage cut that pilots are taking to BASIC (2.61%) and demand the exact same LTIP share scheme to make it all seem so "fair" while "forgetting" about:
1. The 20% cut to variable flying pay being taken
2. The fact that pilots are ALREADY on an hourly rate
3. Pilots don't do back to backs with all the payments and hotel accom
3. Shorthaul pilots do fixed links resulting in 700+ hours per year
etc etc, etc.
Stop comparing us, we leaned up years ago, of course this won't be fair, cc carry far more fat and will thus have different savings targets.
1. The 20% cut to variable flying pay being taken
2. The fact that pilots are ALREADY on an hourly rate
3. Pilots don't do back to backs with all the payments and hotel accom
3. Shorthaul pilots do fixed links resulting in 700+ hours per year
etc etc, etc.
Stop comparing us, we leaned up years ago, of course this won't be fair, cc carry far more fat and will thus have different savings targets.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bodmin, Cornshire
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The problem is Plod, that the pilots roll-over too quickly.
They need to fight to preserve their T&C's. No good feeding the BA crocodile in the hope it will eat you last.
They need to fight to preserve their T&C's. No good feeding the BA crocodile in the hope it will eat you last.
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Da Dog
Refreshing. An exit plan will be needed for the masses. Now, if the Boss Man was to put away his manhood a tad, a win win solution could be made.
BA LHR crew will not be on Virgin wages, nor should they be. BA are a four class service airline, Virgin are not. BASSA need an exit plan too. You will not smash a union in one year. It is not like the British coal or car industry. When did they ever make £1B profit? If 2000 jobs go, then there still will be 11000 very angry employees, if not next year, then definitely the year after, when the profit margins return to where they should be.
Its not the 900 hrs, its what you do with them. Get rid of peripheral payments and INCREASE wages. Believe me, crew will want to get straight home after disruption. If a light does not work in the rest area, then just snag it.
BA LHR crew will not be on Virgin wages, nor should they be. BA are a four class service airline, Virgin are not. BASSA need an exit plan too. You will not smash a union in one year. It is not like the British coal or car industry. When did they ever make £1B profit? If 2000 jobs go, then there still will be 11000 very angry employees, if not next year, then definitely the year after, when the profit margins return to where they should be.
Its not the 900 hrs, its what you do with them. Get rid of peripheral payments and INCREASE wages. Believe me, crew will want to get straight home after disruption. If a light does not work in the rest area, then just snag it.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LGW
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Bearing in mind around 39% of WWLHR cc are on part time contracts, the company could get more work out of them regarding 900 hrs.
I reckon the company have put all these on the table so if they drop a couple of issues, the union will be so grateful that they'll agree to the rest. Not my opinion, but I'm guessing here.
As for the "instant" ballot screaming and strike cries, this is the time to tell Bassa what (on the wish list) you'd be prepared to give up. Not easy, as we know, but seriously, this is the time.
Gg
I reckon the company have put all these on the table so if they drop a couple of issues, the union will be so grateful that they'll agree to the rest. Not my opinion, but I'm guessing here.
As for the "instant" ballot screaming and strike cries, this is the time to tell Bassa what (on the wish list) you'd be prepared to give up. Not easy, as we know, but seriously, this is the time.
Gg
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The problem is Plod, that the pilots roll-over too quickly.
At the end of the day, the pilots in BA have got away with murder. It was a "sweetheart" deal.
Join Date: Sep 2008
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The only cries for an instant ballot will be if Walsh pushes his luck.
The BASSA initiatives are innovative and gives BA a lot of cash. BA's proposals are industrial vandalism.
We are all fed up with Walsh's lies and scaremongering. Time to back off or those 800 management volunteers will be wasting their time.
By the way, most of the people who have volunteered to work for free are employees most vulnerable for the chop. Remember Walsh wanted 1400 to go before Xmas and got less than 700.
The BASSA initiatives are innovative and gives BA a lot of cash. BA's proposals are industrial vandalism.
We are all fed up with Walsh's lies and scaremongering. Time to back off or those 800 management volunteers will be wasting their time.
By the way, most of the people who have volunteered to work for free are employees most vulnerable for the chop. Remember Walsh wanted 1400 to go before Xmas and got less than 700.
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The BASSA initiative are innovative
Yup innovative is the word alright.
Junior trash
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B to B's reduce the head count.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London
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B2Bs are expensive! Why do you think some crew haven't done one in months? Because BA is giving nightstops on the eats coast instead because it's a cheaper alternative.
Middle Eastern B2Bs also seems as a very expensive alternative.
Scheduling a crew member to do a 3 day KWI with two days off followed by a 3 day RUH with two days off is a lot cheaper than letting them to a 6 day B2B to DXB and JED which includes B2B payment, LHR accommodation and THREE days off.
Middle Eastern B2Bs also seems as a very expensive alternative.
Scheduling a crew member to do a 3 day KWI with two days off followed by a 3 day RUH with two days off is a lot cheaper than letting them to a 6 day B2B to DXB and JED which includes B2B payment, LHR accommodation and THREE days off.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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These Middle Eastern trips would also only include CAI, DXB, JED, KWI and RUH because BAH/DOH and AUH/MCT are double sectors and cannot be part of a B2B.
BASSA also mentions Turkey in its proposal. Does it mean IST would come over to WW?
BASSA also mentions Turkey in its proposal. Does it mean IST would come over to WW?
Join Date: Sep 2008
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I think crew on part time contracts will find they are rostered more B to B's because the 900 hour rule is not pro rata.
Walsh has got to think what sort of airline he wants. If he and Bill Francis think that these changes will not make any difference to the service standards, then they are deluding themselves. Some years ago BA reduced the crew compliment on the 747-100/200 down to 13. Didn't last long as the complaints soon flooded in, so it went back up to 15 again and even 16 on some routes.
BA has got to decide which market it is in. We are already disadvantaged against Asian carriers who have more crew and a better product. The only thing that has given BA a competitive edge are the cabin crew; food and the product such as GMIS IFE is poor in comparisom. If BA cannot sell on service, it will have to discount even more.
Watch Walsh pile all the savings into one good year a la Aer Lingus, and then buzz off as it all falls apart.
Over Stress. Poof has PM'd me that he has been gagged again for saying naughty things about the pilots this time
Walsh has got to think what sort of airline he wants. If he and Bill Francis think that these changes will not make any difference to the service standards, then they are deluding themselves. Some years ago BA reduced the crew compliment on the 747-100/200 down to 13. Didn't last long as the complaints soon flooded in, so it went back up to 15 again and even 16 on some routes.
BA has got to decide which market it is in. We are already disadvantaged against Asian carriers who have more crew and a better product. The only thing that has given BA a competitive edge are the cabin crew; food and the product such as GMIS IFE is poor in comparisom. If BA cannot sell on service, it will have to discount even more.
Watch Walsh pile all the savings into one good year a la Aer Lingus, and then buzz off as it all falls apart.
Over Stress. Poof has PM'd me that he has been gagged again for saying naughty things about the pilots this time
Join Date: Jan 2004
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BA has got to decide which market it is in. We are already disadvantaged against Asian carriers who have more crew an a better product.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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SP,
A couple of things...
Peeps are already calling for strike on CF and ballots.
You claim service will be awful if crew levels are cut. Howcome it works at LGW then? Do we provide an awful service? No. We have fantastic reactions from our pax, so I'm afraid you can't really get anywhere with that one.
Gg
A couple of things...
Peeps are already calling for strike on CF and ballots.
You claim service will be awful if crew levels are cut. Howcome it works at LGW then? Do we provide an awful service? No. We have fantastic reactions from our pax, so I'm afraid you can't really get anywhere with that one.
Gg
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BASSA also mentions Turkey in its proposal. Does it mean IST would come over to WW?
This bits good too
- Any new destination within the global linear marks, known as longitude and latitude within the marks known as 40 degrees East - 20 degrees North
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Gg. I travel frequently out of LGW and LHR to the same destination. The LGW crews are not as good on this route. You hear things like "there is only three of us sir", "I can't get it now as we haven't got time"......
As for longhaul, well it was not that great at the start and for many months after. Hopefully after three years peope know what they are doing. I have not flown longhaul out of LGW, but I have heard that the crews work very hard to achieve a fine service.
The main difference is that the SFG was a holding pool for LHR, what will happen to morale if there is no chance to transfer?. Crew at LHR want to be there and it shows in the service.
As for longhaul, well it was not that great at the start and for many months after. Hopefully after three years peope know what they are doing. I have not flown longhaul out of LGW, but I have heard that the crews work very hard to achieve a fine service.
The main difference is that the SFG was a holding pool for LHR, what will happen to morale if there is no chance to transfer?. Crew at LHR want to be there and it shows in the service.
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Service will not be a problem if the crewing level is cut. It's not only about the number of crew that matters but also the ATTITUDE of the crew. They do it splendidly at LGW and look at the response from our customers. The vast majority says the service LGW is far superior than LHR.
It makes me think. If they reduce the crewing level at LHR, where the service is less superiour than LGW, think how awful the service must become? If crew comes to work with this attitude of course it will have an affect on the service.
Stall Pusher, it shows in the service you say. It certainly does. On my last trip, a night stop in the US, the CSD said if we could complete the service within a certain time we would get 80 minutes crew rest but the service had to be done quickly!
It makes me think. If they reduce the crewing level at LHR, where the service is less superiour than LGW, think how awful the service must become? If crew comes to work with this attitude of course it will have an affect on the service.
Stall Pusher, it shows in the service you say. It certainly does. On my last trip, a night stop in the US, the CSD said if we could complete the service within a certain time we would get 80 minutes crew rest but the service had to be done quickly!
Join Date: Sep 2008
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I do not know Nuigini why you seem to delight in shopping your colleagues publicly here?
From your comments if I was a CSD, I would not do anything where someone like you would run into the office or write it here for all to see.
Don't kid yourself NG, crews at LGW always thought they were better than LHR. I was at LGW for 10 years.
It is a shame that promotion has been killed and most Main Crew will never make Purser, let alone Cabin Manager/Premium Service Mgr. Definitely not a career anymore.
From your comments if I was a CSD, I would not do anything where someone like you would run into the office or write it here for all to see.
Don't kid yourself NG, crews at LGW always thought they were better than LHR. I was at LGW for 10 years.
It is a shame that promotion has been killed and most Main Crew will never make Purser, let alone Cabin Manager/Premium Service Mgr. Definitely not a career anymore.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Well, SP, on short haul it is difficult sometimes with only 3 crew, especially when you compare it with 5(possibly) on the same route from LHR.
Of course we had teething problems 3 years ago. You guys have had so many years to rehearse as such, where as we were thrown in at the deep end. Things are running smoothly now and have done for quite some time. I think we've done exeptionally well considering the diversity we've had to go through.
Gg
Of course we had teething problems 3 years ago. You guys have had so many years to rehearse as such, where as we were thrown in at the deep end. Things are running smoothly now and have done for quite some time. I think we've done exeptionally well considering the diversity we've had to go through.
Gg