BA and Project Columbus III
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PC767: if wages are 99% of your dept's budget then if I was a BASSA rep I'd be asking them where on earth the hotel costs and everything else in IFCE fits in, that 99% doesn't make sense, does it? (I'm not saying he didn't say this BTW!)
On whose budget is everything else?!
BASSA should be delving deeply and coming up with ideas for savings which DON'T involve pay cuts, IMHO.
On whose budget is everything else?!
BASSA should be delving deeply and coming up with ideas for savings which DON'T involve pay cuts, IMHO.
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PC767,
Would you not be able to do the same with airport standbys, as we do at LGW? We cover both long and short haul from an airport standby and specific standbys will start at specific times to ensure the long haul flights flights are covered.
Please don't take this as an "if we can do it, why can't you" dig. It's a genuine question as to whether this would be possible as I'm not too familiar with QRS. You have many more l/h routes than us, especially the long range ones, which may make it unworkable for LHR, hence my query.
Would you not be able to do the same with airport standbys, as we do at LGW? We cover both long and short haul from an airport standby and specific standbys will start at specific times to ensure the long haul flights flights are covered.
Please don't take this as an "if we can do it, why can't you" dig. It's a genuine question as to whether this would be possible as I'm not too familiar with QRS. You have many more l/h routes than us, especially the long range ones, which may make it unworkable for LHR, hence my query.
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Jetset.
LGW standbys cover both long and short haul as you state. At LHR short haul operate airport standbys, and long haul operate a mixture of QRS and 2hr standbys.
QRS is an acronym for Quick Response Standby. You are based in either the Arora or Sofitel at LHR and you are on 45mins notice. QRS lasts for 3 days and is in 8hr blocks. Often the call out is to go direct to an aircraft.
The majority of stand by is via 2hr standby. For this no accomodation is provided and a minimum of 2hrs notice is given. Again 2hrs lasts for 3 days in 8hr blocks. Both standbys are part of a 9 day standby block duty with the remaining time being taken up with 24hr standby.
The general rule is that QRS is only used for issues at or near report time. Any other issues resulting in crew shortage are covered by 2hrs. Ie if an individual reports sick in the am for a pm flight, a 2hr standby will be notified.
I understand that at LGW airport standbys must be used for long haul within the first 2hrs of the start of standby to protect duty hours.
That would work for our shorter long hauls but not the longer range trips as scheme states 'if a crew member is on stand by duty on immediate readiness at an airport , then the allowable FDP is calculated using the start time of the stand by duty.'
LGW standbys cover both long and short haul as you state. At LHR short haul operate airport standbys, and long haul operate a mixture of QRS and 2hr standbys.
QRS is an acronym for Quick Response Standby. You are based in either the Arora or Sofitel at LHR and you are on 45mins notice. QRS lasts for 3 days and is in 8hr blocks. Often the call out is to go direct to an aircraft.
The majority of stand by is via 2hr standby. For this no accomodation is provided and a minimum of 2hrs notice is given. Again 2hrs lasts for 3 days in 8hr blocks. Both standbys are part of a 9 day standby block duty with the remaining time being taken up with 24hr standby.
The general rule is that QRS is only used for issues at or near report time. Any other issues resulting in crew shortage are covered by 2hrs. Ie if an individual reports sick in the am for a pm flight, a 2hr standby will be notified.
I understand that at LGW airport standbys must be used for long haul within the first 2hrs of the start of standby to protect duty hours.
That would work for our shorter long hauls but not the longer range trips as scheme states 'if a crew member is on stand by duty on immediate readiness at an airport , then the allowable FDP is calculated using the start time of the stand by duty.'
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Overstress,
CC HOTAC costs are included in the Flight Ops budget. 88m with approx a 20/80% split between flight crew/cabin crew. Believe it’s all up for re-assessment in the coming weeks though.
Pre3
CC HOTAC costs are included in the Flight Ops budget. 88m with approx a 20/80% split between flight crew/cabin crew. Believe it’s all up for re-assessment in the coming weeks though.
Pre3
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the sublect of airport hotels around the world has been brought up before and strange as it is BA manage to get better deals away from the airport, with a few exceptions such as BOM.
I guess airport hotels are in demand and can get more than the $20 per room per night BA pay !!
I guess airport hotels are in demand and can get more than the $20 per room per night BA pay !!
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Airport hotels=non starter. In most places as stated above they generally are more expensive. City hotels are suffering in the recession and offer better deals anyway.
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Hi guys,
I know this may look a little bit off topic, but when I watched this video and remembered that not long ago a Spanair plane crashed, killing 154, and so many other accidents had happened since, that didn't have such a happy ending as the BA038 (thanks to the whole crew) or the US Airways 1549 (thanks to the whole crew again), I couldn't help but ask myself what I am doing here, at 38,000ft, working in an industry that values so little my job, my health and in the worst of the cases, my life.
When we have a safe flight it's easy to forget what the main purpose of our job is and how important it is (and the risks involved). And we also forget that the current T&C's are there for a reason: how healthy is to cross 6 or 7 time zones, having a nightstop and then flying back to base?. I've done that with my previous employer and I felt like rubbish.
Or having three days shorthaul flights followed by a three day longhaul with a lovely night flight to finish it off?. I can confirm that you feel like rubbish as well.
And then they come up with the happy idea of a new mixed fleet and the even happier "ideas&opportunities" wish list.
I wouldn't be surprised if next time they ask us to work for free, just for the peace of mind of the shareholders.
Well guys, have a look at the video and think about it for just a sec.
YouTube - VIDEO #2 of FedEx Cargo Jet Crashing in Tokyo, Japan
Rant over,
Cheers!
I know this may look a little bit off topic, but when I watched this video and remembered that not long ago a Spanair plane crashed, killing 154, and so many other accidents had happened since, that didn't have such a happy ending as the BA038 (thanks to the whole crew) or the US Airways 1549 (thanks to the whole crew again), I couldn't help but ask myself what I am doing here, at 38,000ft, working in an industry that values so little my job, my health and in the worst of the cases, my life.
When we have a safe flight it's easy to forget what the main purpose of our job is and how important it is (and the risks involved). And we also forget that the current T&C's are there for a reason: how healthy is to cross 6 or 7 time zones, having a nightstop and then flying back to base?. I've done that with my previous employer and I felt like rubbish.
Or having three days shorthaul flights followed by a three day longhaul with a lovely night flight to finish it off?. I can confirm that you feel like rubbish as well.
And then they come up with the happy idea of a new mixed fleet and the even happier "ideas&opportunities" wish list.
I wouldn't be surprised if next time they ask us to work for free, just for the peace of mind of the shareholders.
Well guys, have a look at the video and think about it for just a sec.
YouTube - VIDEO #2 of FedEx Cargo Jet Crashing in Tokyo, Japan
Rant over,
Cheers!
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Tenwest,
Was there really any need for that comment ?
The video illustrates what can go wrong in our choice of career not that cabin crew work on cargo aircraft !!
I just wonder if you are on here just to have a pop at cabin crew at every opportunity ?
From reading your recent posts and username, I assume you are not cabin crew and as the mods mentioned earlier in this thread, this part or PPRuNe is for cabin crew rather than all and sundry to have a go at cabin crew !!
Was there really any need for that comment ?
The video illustrates what can go wrong in our choice of career not that cabin crew work on cargo aircraft !!
I just wonder if you are on here just to have a pop at cabin crew at every opportunity ?
From reading your recent posts and username, I assume you are not cabin crew and as the mods mentioned earlier in this thread, this part or PPRuNe is for cabin crew rather than all and sundry to have a go at cabin crew !!
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I'll ignore the "Pr**k" reference as I never stoop to personal insults, but:
Why not post references to the Manchester disaster in the 80's?
Cabin Crew saved a lot of lives there. Surely a more relevant comparison?
British Airtours Flight 28M - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Why not post references to the Manchester disaster in the 80's?
Cabin Crew saved a lot of lives there. Surely a more relevant comparison?
British Airtours Flight 28M - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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You write without Nokia speak and in full sentences.
You don't resort to personal insult.
You are apparently employed as ground staff.
You have a major interest in the doings of cabin crew, without a reason for that larger than usual interest being readily apparent.
This is a last and final explanation to you.
You are here on a forum not meant for you. That means that there is less leeway for you here than there might be for you on the Flight/Ground Ops, Crewing and Dispatch Forum; meant for people with your job.
You are welcome to participate here as long as your participation contributes something useful to the subjects for which this forum is meant.
Needless sarcasm, thinly veiled insults, 'clever' one-liners dissing CC and all other tricks and tom-foolery are not welcome.
Your last back-pedaling post not-withstanding.
Try Jetblast for clever insults, arrogance and fight-picking. They love that kind of thing down there. You'll finds lots of equal minded sparring partners, I promise.
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BuckD:
"They" would be delighted of course. What employees in BA have to worry about is the management giving 90 days notice on your contract if your dept can't/won't make the savings BA are demanding.
This applies to all groups, not just cabin crew. WW is rumoured to be prepared to do this. If IFS/IFCE don't come up with the goods it could be an interesting few months.
If BA decide to vary anyone's contract this is what the law says:
If you want to read the full monty on this the link is here
I post this not to scaremonger but to try to introduce some reality to the thread, I hope BASSA are on the ball.
PS: As I understand it, if you are dismissed in this way you take the company to tribunal, or county court if you can prove measurable loss. However I am not a lawyer, I know that there are a few on this forum.
I wouldn't be surprised if next time they ask us to work for free, just for the peace of mind of the shareholders.
This applies to all groups, not just cabin crew. WW is rumoured to be prepared to do this. If IFS/IFCE don't come up with the goods it could be an interesting few months.
If BA decide to vary anyone's contract this is what the law says:
If the employer wishes to vary the terms and conditions of employment and the employee, having been consulted, objects to the variation, then the employer may decide to terminate the contract by dismissing the employee. As usual in the event of dismissal, the appropriate statutory or contractual notice (or pay in lieu of notice) would have to be given and any other contractual obligations relating to the termination of employment would have to be fulfilled.
Rights to notice and reasons for dismissal The employer would then be free to offer the job on different terms and conditions either to the dismissed employee or to another applicant.
Rights to notice and reasons for dismissal The employer would then be free to offer the job on different terms and conditions either to the dismissed employee or to another applicant.
I post this not to scaremonger but to try to introduce some reality to the thread, I hope BASSA are on the ball.
PS: As I understand it, if you are dismissed in this way you take the company to tribunal, or county court if you can prove measurable loss. However I am not a lawyer, I know that there are a few on this forum.
Last edited by overstress; 26th Mar 2009 at 19:01.
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Interesting comparrison between this thread and a new one in Rumours & News (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3...al-action.html)
Thus far it seems Pilots threatening strike action about a company revising their T&Cs is acceptable. One poster in opposition was put in place. Amongst the changes - reduction in crew water.
Personally I wish the aggrieved well. In my Conservative with a small c mind there is much about opportunistic t&c stripping going on rather than a simple battle for survival in the mindset of KPI bonus chasing senior managers.
There is a balance to be achieved.
Thus far it seems Pilots threatening strike action about a company revising their T&Cs is acceptable. One poster in opposition was put in place. Amongst the changes - reduction in crew water.
Personally I wish the aggrieved well. In my Conservative with a small c mind there is much about opportunistic t&c stripping going on rather than a simple battle for survival in the mindset of KPI bonus chasing senior managers.
There is a balance to be achieved.
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PC767: balance yes, but there is much to be said for not leaving yourself open to this kind of management opportunism. It could be construed that BASSA has done just that.... 
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The new fleet may well be crewed by CC on new T&Cs, but not pilots on new T&Cs. One thing the OpenSkies debacle did clarify was that the Scope agreement was cast in stone. BASSA have for years been happy with several sets of T&C's within the BA CC community. Custom and practice would fatally weaken any objections BASSA may have against another different set of T&C's within the CC they represent. BA have quite clearly demonstrated how willing they are to use legal tools to get their own way. Any union deciding to call for IA better ensure they are legally watertight or they will find themselves in a very poor position.
I'm sure there are lots of other avenues to explore
I'm sure there are lots of other avenues to explore
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Rights and things
I am not CC but an interested part time pax.
I read a lot here about rights and potential unfairness.
Undoubtably, you will have T&C that were agreed to at some point in time. However, things change. The actual governing principle here is supply and demand.
There are more A/C, more Pilots and many more CC than anyone needs. So the price for each will fall. The unions may be doing a great job in trying to protect working conditions, however, when it comes to money - it will either work for the company or not. If not, no company!
I read a lot here about rights and potential unfairness.
Undoubtably, you will have T&C that were agreed to at some point in time. However, things change. The actual governing principle here is supply and demand.
There are more A/C, more Pilots and many more CC than anyone needs. So the price for each will fall. The unions may be doing a great job in trying to protect working conditions, however, when it comes to money - it will either work for the company or not. If not, no company!