BA and Project Columbus III
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: The Winchester
SOSR
Or the previously quoted "Some Other Substantial Reason"
Possibly "old" law, but if you don't want a gripping read
check Hollister vs. the NFU...
One report of the Industial Tribunial on the above contains the following comment
<<Ellis v. Brighton Co-operative Society Ltd. [1976] I.R.L.R. 419, where it was recognised by the court that reorganisation of business may on occasion be a sufficient reason justifying the dismissal of an employee. They went on to say, at p. 420:
"Where there has been a properly consulted-upon reorganisation which, if it is not done, is going to bring the whole business to a standstill, a failure to go along with the new arrangements may well -- it is not bound to, but it may well -- constitute 'some other substantial reason."'>>
It's not my job to do BASSA's legal work, but we know WW likes using the legal system, so before ticking "yes" or"no" on that ballot sheet, make sure BASSA have got sound legal advice.
Possibly "old" law, but if you don't want a gripping read
check Hollister vs. the NFU... One report of the Industial Tribunial on the above contains the following comment
<<Ellis v. Brighton Co-operative Society Ltd. [1976] I.R.L.R. 419, where it was recognised by the court that reorganisation of business may on occasion be a sufficient reason justifying the dismissal of an employee. They went on to say, at p. 420:
"Where there has been a properly consulted-upon reorganisation which, if it is not done, is going to bring the whole business to a standstill, a failure to go along with the new arrangements may well -- it is not bound to, but it may well -- constitute 'some other substantial reason."'>>
It's not my job to do BASSA's legal work, but we know WW likes using the legal system, so before ticking "yes" or"no" on that ballot sheet, make sure BASSA have got sound legal advice.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 276
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From: London
She's more than happy to take on more work roles, a working position on the aircraft
This company is very aware of its VIP's, Executive Club and Gold Card members, they should make the CSD part of the service.
Seriously though, she wouldn't shirk from anything, there's quite a few like her too.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 276
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From: London
Since you ask, including allowances, you clear about 1800 sterling once you've worked out how to bid. Hardly a fortune is it? CM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 276
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From: London
Me too, obviously. Seriously though, she wouldn't shirk from anything, there's quite a few like her too.
Unfortunately there are some CSD's that only sit in their office, eating and watching films throughout the flight and give you the evil eye when you happen to come into "their area" to get some paper work or something out of the duty free trollies. When you think of how much some of they earn...
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,078
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From: Ask OPS!
It is a fortune when you take into consideration that you actually on EF (where you bid) average 500 hours per year. That's a bit more than half-time when you actually are allowed to work 900 hours.
With correct rostering coupled with more effective utilisation of the CC as a manpower asset you could actually have less time in uniform and more time in the air earning your allowances.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 276
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From: London
That is possibly the crux of the problem. When you have massive CRC turnarounds of 2-3 hours between flights then the disparity between duty hours and flying hours grows ever greater. Don't forget that the 900 hour limit is based upon flying hours only and not duty hours.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 17
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From: Surrey
They should be all like that!
Unfortunately there are some CSD's that only sit in their office, eating and watching films throughout the flight and give you the evil eye when you happen to come into "their area" to get some paper work or something out of the duty free trollies. When you think of how much some of they earn...
Unfortunately there are some CSD's that only sit in their office, eating and watching films throughout the flight and give you the evil eye when you happen to come into "their area" to get some paper work or something out of the duty free trollies. When you think of how much some of they earn...
Sadly that's not an attitude confined to CSD's, it's company-wide, endemic and simply "the BA Way"
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2
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From: London
CRC
If you choose to go on stike the only line you will be on will the line at the unemployment office... You need to get a grip at look at the state that BA is currently in.
If we do not make changes soon we will be all out of a job, and trust me when you go out into the big bad world you will get quite a shock. Other organisations would not put up with this nonsense.
If you choose to go on stike the only line you will be on will the line at the unemployment office... You need to get a grip at look at the state that BA is currently in.
If we do not make changes soon we will be all out of a job, and trust me when you go out into the big bad world you will get quite a shock. Other organisations would not put up with this nonsense.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: London
If you choose to go on stike the only line you will be on will the line at the unemployment office... You need to get a grip at look at the state that BA is currently in.
If we do not make changes soon we will be all out of a job, and trust me when you go out into the big bad world you will get quite a shock. Other organisations would not put up with this nonsense.
If we do not make changes soon we will be all out of a job, and trust me when you go out into the big bad world you will get quite a shock. Other organisations would not put up with this nonsense.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: London
I have no idea how to change opinions and the way some people think. I find it amazing that some of the crew I fly with think that the last results we produced were made up, fudged etc!!
There is no quick fix here, the good old days are gone for good, the travel market has changed beyond all recogniction and we will have to change in order to survive. If we don't the winners will only be Virgin, Air France, Lufty etc. Our jobs, pensions will all go down the drain!!
There is no quick fix here, the good old days are gone for good, the travel market has changed beyond all recogniction and we will have to change in order to survive. If we don't the winners will only be Virgin, Air France, Lufty etc. Our jobs, pensions will all go down the drain!!
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Reading
I flew with one chap recently who asserted that he would strike because he 'thought he should have staff travel for life'.
I couldn't get him to see that a strike would result in no pay, no staff travel etc.
Some peoples ignorance scares me!
I couldn't get him to see that a strike would result in no pay, no staff travel etc.
Some peoples ignorance scares me!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: Woking
The "almost" strike of a couple of years ago is probably still fresh in most peoples minds.
It was the one about 16 different points that most crew couldn't list, the postings here were the same then, Willie will fight you, you will all be sacked, BASSA will be finished etc etc.
What happened? That's right, some wishy washy soloution, a go sick free card whenever you want and BASSA left to cause chaos for another couple of years.
Maybe different this time, maybe not, I'm guessing a lot will take the gamble.
Look already we have gone from a 2000 strong new fleet and a list of 32 possible cuts from current crew to just 500 new crew and all current crew untouched, apart from crewing levels.
If they keep up the "no" vote it may just keep getting better.
We all hope Willie will sort out BASSA once and for all, personally I'll believe it when I see it.
It was the one about 16 different points that most crew couldn't list, the postings here were the same then, Willie will fight you, you will all be sacked, BASSA will be finished etc etc.
What happened? That's right, some wishy washy soloution, a go sick free card whenever you want and BASSA left to cause chaos for another couple of years.
Maybe different this time, maybe not, I'm guessing a lot will take the gamble.
Look already we have gone from a 2000 strong new fleet and a list of 32 possible cuts from current crew to just 500 new crew and all current crew untouched, apart from crewing levels.
If they keep up the "no" vote it may just keep getting better.
We all hope Willie will sort out BASSA once and for all, personally I'll believe it when I see it.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: UK
I use to belong to CC89; when Mr Walsh graced himself on BA I joined BASSA! Go figure.
Now after the massive global cock up on the opening of T5 in which the said gentleman said "the buck stops with me" but in fact 2 other managers heads rolled, the buck didn`t really stop with him but surely with that mess he should have gone(?)
The fines.. another manager (who I believe also ran for CEO post?) his head rolled.
So the bucks or mistakes never seen to stick to him.
Question? Why?
was it he had this plan in the making already, credit crunch/ressestion here or not? He`d make BA like Aer Lingus? Now a basketcase. He got removed by the Irish Government because he was such an excellent CEO?
Just wondering if his was on the cards all along.
If things are this bad why wasn`t part time etc offered straight away like after Sept 11th?
His bee has always been to crush any union in the company whether the company is taken to its knees.
As for the NAPS pension will it be even shorter when crew leave and take their pension with them? Less members bigger short fall possibly.
Now after the massive global cock up on the opening of T5 in which the said gentleman said "the buck stops with me" but in fact 2 other managers heads rolled, the buck didn`t really stop with him but surely with that mess he should have gone(?)
The fines.. another manager (who I believe also ran for CEO post?) his head rolled.
So the bucks or mistakes never seen to stick to him.
Question? Why?
was it he had this plan in the making already, credit crunch/ressestion here or not? He`d make BA like Aer Lingus? Now a basketcase. He got removed by the Irish Government because he was such an excellent CEO?
Just wondering if his was on the cards all along.
If things are this bad why wasn`t part time etc offered straight away like after Sept 11th?
His bee has always been to crush any union in the company whether the company is taken to its knees.
As for the NAPS pension will it be even shorter when crew leave and take their pension with them? Less members bigger short fall possibly.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: London
Plodding Along
We have gone from 2000 to 500 crew on the proposed fleet for the time being. All new aircraft coming to BA will belong to this fleet which will be crewed by cabin crew on different contracts and working to scheme. Routes will be transferred to this fleet accordingly and present crew, on the "old fleet", will not be able to transfer unless they resign from their contract and accept the new one. Eventually there won't be any aircraft left in the old fleet.
That's their plan, I think.
We have gone from 2000 to 500 crew on the proposed fleet for the time being. All new aircraft coming to BA will belong to this fleet which will be crewed by cabin crew on different contracts and working to scheme. Routes will be transferred to this fleet accordingly and present crew, on the "old fleet", will not be able to transfer unless they resign from their contract and accept the new one. Eventually there won't be any aircraft left in the old fleet.
That's their plan, I think.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Reading
If the airline goes bust, my reckoning is that it would disappear totally.
No part of the airline is making money at the moment, at what should me the best part of our year. As a result, there is no need for anyone to 'resurrect BA', as the population is already proving it is too expensive.
The only hope for any of us to stay on a decent salary is to negotiate it's reduction, if we don't negotiate, we will be presented with no salary, no staff travel, no pension.
BASSA needs to be driven to change. Don't listen to the loudest voice in the briefing romm, and let them make your up your mind.
You and your family are your prime concern. You need to force BASSA to look after YOU by negotiating on your behalf for a BA that can survive, and hopefully in a few years, thrive.
No part of the airline is making money at the moment, at what should me the best part of our year. As a result, there is no need for anyone to 'resurrect BA', as the population is already proving it is too expensive.
The only hope for any of us to stay on a decent salary is to negotiate it's reduction, if we don't negotiate, we will be presented with no salary, no staff travel, no pension.
BASSA needs to be driven to change. Don't listen to the loudest voice in the briefing romm, and let them make your up your mind.
You and your family are your prime concern. You need to force BASSA to look after YOU by negotiating on your behalf for a BA that can survive, and hopefully in a few years, thrive.
Last edited by Andyismyname; 13th June 2009 at 20:45. Reason: Poor spelling. Doh!