BA and Project Columbus III
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Reading
CFC, Willie is after permanent change.
What permanent changes are you aware of that the unions have put forward and had rejected?
And what is you will be striking over? Surely the ballot paper would be accept or reject the proposal?
And of course, agreement needs to be done by the 30th, or it will be imposed.
I hate to bring politics into this, but well over 10 years ago a young Tony Blair managed to transform Labour into "New Labour". I feel that we need the same transformation. BASSA, which says NO and in this case will have things imposed on its members, or "NEW BASSA", which negotiates and controls its destiny.
So, NEW BASSA, a good idea? We only have 18 days.
What permanent changes are you aware of that the unions have put forward and had rejected?
And what is you will be striking over? Surely the ballot paper would be accept or reject the proposal?
And of course, agreement needs to be done by the 30th, or it will be imposed.
I hate to bring politics into this, but well over 10 years ago a young Tony Blair managed to transform Labour into "New Labour". I feel that we need the same transformation. BASSA, which says NO and in this case will have things imposed on its members, or "NEW BASSA", which negotiates and controls its destiny.
So, NEW BASSA, a good idea? We only have 18 days.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Reading
Sadly if that is the attitude of our colleagues, and it is having witnessed it on mumerous occasions recently, they will get change. It will be change of employment status.
We need a new BASSA, and we need it fast.
We need a new BASSA, and we need it fast.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: London
Basing on what most crew feel I came home from a trip this morning and most of them were talking about going on a strike. It already began in the briefing room. Having said that there could have been crew as well far too scared saying otherwise because, as I have mentioned so many times, going against the stream and you are in for a tough fight.
I for one will definitely not be voting for a ballot. A strike will not be supported by any other department or the public that are actually paying our salaries. I will vote for the change.
I for one will definitely not be voting for a ballot. A strike will not be supported by any other department or the public that are actually paying our salaries. I will vote for the change.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 468
Likes: 1
From: 35,000 ft
Quote from Andyismyname
Yes - I think it's a great idea. I think it would definitely have alot of takers - can I be the first??
Nuigini is right - alot of people will be agreeing to the BASSA rhetoric in briefings etc out of sheer fear. If you are brave enough to venture onto to some of the other forums - it is really scary. They are literally baying for blood.
And Carnage you are absolutely right. Many vote for strike out of sheer ignorance, believing WW will turn around and say "Oh OK you win".
Two years ago people were near to tears the day before the potential strike with anxiety over what to do. Additionally, there are also a large number of "old contract, die hards" about to leave who may just want to go with a bang!!
Somehow somewhere we need to tap into the "I AM prepared to change" workforce amongst us. How and where is the question?
CFC - you have done your 30 years. Please can you allow the rest of us to do the same by voting NO for a strike?
And like Nuigini, I too will vote for change. PERMANENT change.
So, NEW BASSA, a good idea? We only have 18 days
Nuigini is right - alot of people will be agreeing to the BASSA rhetoric in briefings etc out of sheer fear. If you are brave enough to venture onto to some of the other forums - it is really scary. They are literally baying for blood.
And Carnage you are absolutely right. Many vote for strike out of sheer ignorance, believing WW will turn around and say "Oh OK you win".
Two years ago people were near to tears the day before the potential strike with anxiety over what to do. Additionally, there are also a large number of "old contract, die hards" about to leave who may just want to go with a bang!! Somehow somewhere we need to tap into the "I AM prepared to change" workforce amongst us. How and where is the question?
CFC - you have done your 30 years. Please can you allow the rest of us to do the same by voting NO for a strike?
And like Nuigini, I too will vote for change. PERMANENT change.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: UK
On the last part of this very long thread I posted the "new" contract LHR cabin crew basic salaries.. ie after 1997.
Amazingly not one person commented..why? mmm perhaps it kinda stopped the discussion of over paid cc? Yr 1 basic btw is £11,000
Amazingly not one person commented..why? mmm perhaps it kinda stopped the discussion of over paid cc? Yr 1 basic btw is £11,000
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: UK
Since you ask, including allowances, you clear about 1800 sterling once you've worked out how to bid. Hardly a fortune is it? CM, would you get out of bed for it, year after year?
Nuigini, You are leaving for Etihad. Do you think you have the right to an opinion or are you just stirring it before you go?
Wobble and Topbunk, Have you put in for part-time or working for free as per WW's front page request in Pravda? Pinkaroo's household has.
Nuigini, You are leaving for Etihad. Do you think you have the right to an opinion or are you just stirring it before you go?
Wobble and Topbunk, Have you put in for part-time or working for free as per WW's front page request in Pravda? Pinkaroo's household has.
Last edited by pinkaroo; 12th June 2009 at 21:39.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
From: north of heathrow
TopBunk,
No, what I was saying, or trying to explain, poorly as it seems, is why we have destination payments, why LGW don't, why not all trips to the same destination have them.
I think change should happen, but as I've said before, I'm not going to say here what I think those changes should be.
I was trying to explain why we have them NOW, not why we should keep them. I never said that.
No, what I was saying, or trying to explain, poorly as it seems, is why we have destination payments, why LGW don't, why not all trips to the same destination have them.
I think change should happen, but as I've said before, I'm not going to say here what I think those changes should be.
I was trying to explain why we have them NOW, not why we should keep them. I never said that.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: UK
allowances vary as you well know.
so as you then admit the allowances are needed then?
As for choice in place to live, well it is you choice but you should live with in a sensible travelling distance to LHR. So where`s cheap? mmmm I`ll go for the north home counties.. Herts? nope.. Bucks? well Milton Keynes possibly but that M1 M25 isn`t great, Beds? mmm Luton? yes well.. Beds possibly.. you all know that its expensive to live in the southeast and my £23K (B4 tax) earn last year on new contract was fine. Not asking for more or less willing to work more yep.
so as you then admit the allowances are needed then?
As for choice in place to live, well it is you choice but you should live with in a sensible travelling distance to LHR. So where`s cheap? mmmm I`ll go for the north home counties.. Herts? nope.. Bucks? well Milton Keynes possibly but that M1 M25 isn`t great, Beds? mmm Luton? yes well.. Beds possibly.. you all know that its expensive to live in the southeast and my £23K (B4 tax) earn last year on new contract was fine. Not asking for more or less willing to work more yep.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 3
From: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
pinkaroo
Yes - one step further in fact! Permanently helping the business under VR offer ....
Wobble and Topbunk, Have you put in for part-time or working for free as per WW's front page request in Pravda? Pinkaroo's household has.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Reading
Pinkaroo
"Hardly a fortune is it? CM, would you get out of bed for it, year after year?"
That is the whole problem. The world has changed. People are NOT paying the amount we need to fill seats on the aircraft to reward us in the manner to which we have become used to.
Something has to change. We have to accept change. Shrugging our shoulders and collectively say "NO" will not produce the people to buy the tickets which pay our current salary.
If, in the new economic climate which we are most certainly in, you dont find the salary acceptable, leave. Others will fill your position. It has always been thus.
We need to change. To do a 'protest' NO vote, will only lead Willie into giving us notice of termination of contract.
Then there will be no salary, no staff travel, quite possibly no pension.
Think about that! No salary, hence no mortgage or rent, no money for school or uni fees, no money for car repayments etc, no nipping off somewhere sunny during winter, no lifestyle. And having to find new employment in the current economic climate!! Not easy, and definately not the same lifestyle!!!
We need to negotiate to secure our future...............NEW BASSA anyone?....we have 18 days left!!
Tell the reps before time runs out.
"Hardly a fortune is it? CM, would you get out of bed for it, year after year?"
That is the whole problem. The world has changed. People are NOT paying the amount we need to fill seats on the aircraft to reward us in the manner to which we have become used to.
Something has to change. We have to accept change. Shrugging our shoulders and collectively say "NO" will not produce the people to buy the tickets which pay our current salary.
If, in the new economic climate which we are most certainly in, you dont find the salary acceptable, leave. Others will fill your position. It has always been thus.
We need to change. To do a 'protest' NO vote, will only lead Willie into giving us notice of termination of contract.
Then there will be no salary, no staff travel, quite possibly no pension.
Think about that! No salary, hence no mortgage or rent, no money for school or uni fees, no money for car repayments etc, no nipping off somewhere sunny during winter, no lifestyle. And having to find new employment in the current economic climate!! Not easy, and definately not the same lifestyle!!!
We need to negotiate to secure our future...............NEW BASSA anyone?....we have 18 days left!!
Tell the reps before time runs out.
Last edited by Andyismyname; 12th June 2009 at 22:29. Reason: Disgust!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: UK
OK, So we keep retreating as cheaper and cheaper labour arrives to fill the vacancies. Then what? This country was populated by a proud nation called the English. We worked hard. We made laws. We made a fair and safe society. We paid our taxes and financed the NHS and educational establishments. We raised our families. We built our country. We built an Airline industry other nations envy. Now we are just supposed to piss off are we?
Nuigini, It was the 25th of March 2009. That was only about 11 weeks ago! Ages? I don't think so! Hope the remuneration is lower there and the terms less favourable.
Nuigini, It was the 25th of March 2009. That was only about 11 weeks ago! Ages? I don't think so! Hope the remuneration is lower there and the terms less favourable.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Reading
Pinkaroo, chill.
There used to be an Empire as well. The sun never set on it. Times change.
If we tried to force our employer to carry on with the cost burden it has, it will go broke!
That is not a win-win situation. We need to negotiate a solution before the 30th or we have blown it. The sun will have set on our empire.
We need BASSA to realise it needs to change, we need to negotiate or the empire is lost!
There used to be an Empire as well. The sun never set on it. Times change.
If we tried to force our employer to carry on with the cost burden it has, it will go broke!
That is not a win-win situation. We need to negotiate a solution before the 30th or we have blown it. The sun will have set on our empire.
We need BASSA to realise it needs to change, we need to negotiate or the empire is lost!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
From: Here and there
"We need to change. To do a 'protest' NO vote, will only lead Willie into giving us notice of termination of contract."
I don't think that will ever happen. Even if CC decide to strike. He cannot terminate the contract unless the company goes "bust". But if that happens, they would lose slots overnight. Hardly a successful outcome
L.
I don't think that will ever happen. Even if CC decide to strike. He cannot terminate the contract unless the company goes "bust". But if that happens, they would lose slots overnight. Hardly a successful outcome
L.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Reading
Luksy, he most definitely CAN. Have a hunt on the web, tis all legal. I think it's called SOSR (Some Other Substantial Reason)
Like most things in life DYOR (do your own research)
Like most things in life DYOR (do your own research)
Last edited by Andyismyname; 12th June 2009 at 23:35. Reason: Spooling
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Oxford, UK
My fiancee (old contract CSD) won't be striking over this and is painfully, viscerally aware of the dire straits the company finds itself in. She's more than happy to take on more work roles, a working position on the aircraft, managerial responsibilities etc etc. Not everyone's a foaming BASSA militant.
Just for perspective, you understand.
Just for perspective, you understand.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
From: Ask OPS!
Pinkaroo, as CM has said, whether or not I would get out of bed for £1800 a month is totally irrelevant. Just as a point of interest I have, in my formative years, worked for far less whilst trying to obtain the qualifications required to do the job I do today.
The amount you get paid is relevant to the level of job you do, nothing more nothing less. As there are many other companies with CC operating for far less than BA then the company will see your pay as an opportunity to cut excess costs. Sorry but that is the way of business.
I am certain that CC would not want to be paid the same as OCS cleaners? But they work on the aircraft don't they? WW doesn't get paid the same as the pilots even though he is also a pilot does he. Horses for courses. Responsibility tied to re-numeration.
This adjustment is necessary albeit, due to the poor negotiating skills of BASSA over the past 10 years, a painful one.
Hopefully we will see an acceptable outcome and thus can continue to have these little discussions in the future on Pprune rather than in the dole queue.
The amount you get paid is relevant to the level of job you do, nothing more nothing less. As there are many other companies with CC operating for far less than BA then the company will see your pay as an opportunity to cut excess costs. Sorry but that is the way of business.
I am certain that CC would not want to be paid the same as OCS cleaners? But they work on the aircraft don't they? WW doesn't get paid the same as the pilots even though he is also a pilot does he. Horses for courses. Responsibility tied to re-numeration.
This adjustment is necessary albeit, due to the poor negotiating skills of BASSA over the past 10 years, a painful one.
Hopefully we will see an acceptable outcome and thus can continue to have these little discussions in the future on Pprune rather than in the dole queue.