BA and Project Columbus III
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: uk
At last the cards are on the table.2000 crew to go,the union do not think so.I feel a battle is just around the corner.12000 cabin crew against the waterside mob.not an easy one to call.if it comes to a battle,then the statements made by both sides will be found proven or false.i feel the management are treading a very fine line.the costs to the company could be enormous,if the legitimacy of the risk is shown to be false,then heads will roll and fast.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
From: Gatwick
Have a little look at redundancy and the law. You are dismissed by means of redundancy. Dismissed means sacked, just a nice way of putting it. Most sackings are legal, but not all. It will just take one person to lodge an unfair dismissal claim, which is supported by Unite, then all hell breaks loose. Collective support and industrial action.
That is why you have unions, to stop businesses destroying peoples lives.
That is why you have unions, to stop businesses destroying peoples lives.
PPRuNe Person
Joined: Jun 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 13
From: see roster
bermudashape: there will be no battle, there cannot be. If BASSA don't agree, this will be IMPOSED, can you not see that?
litebulbs: fantasy, that's all I can say.
litebulbs: fantasy, that's all I can say.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: uk
Hard to impose a change in working practices on a workforce who are sat at home.12000 people failing to report for duty means absolute disaster for BA.the operation ceases,utter chaos ensues,costs to the company are incalculable.do not underestimate the power of the employees to influence outcomes.just look at past cabin crew disputes,without exception the company has been damaged,financially and have a go managers have paid the price.ok,so impose the threats and just see what happens,i dread to think of the consequences.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,606
Likes: 0
From: UK
Hard to impose a change in working practices on a workforce who are sat at home.12000 people failing to report for duty means absolute disaster for BA.the operation ceases,utter chaos ensues,costs to the company are incalculable.do not underestimate the power of the employees to influence outcomes.just look at past cabin crew disputes,without exception the company has been damaged,financially and have a go managers have paid the price.ok,so impose the threats and just see what happens,i dread to think of the consequences.
If you think the consequences of a strike are to bring down the airline entirely, then logically some crew really are at the point of utter stupidity - why would anyone logically strike if that is the outcome!!!
The outcome is negotiations, which BASSA have singularly failed to engage in for some time.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: London
Future recruitment and transfers into LHR won't be on the EXCISTING contracts. At least that is how I interpreted the email which was sent out tonight. So, they want to get rid of the present T&C and eventually get rid of them. Future aircraft coming to LHR would also most likely be crewed by those crews. Sooner or later present crew would need to transfer because of lack of work.
I don't like the idea of going on a strike at all! I think it will really place us in an awful situation.
I don't like the idea of going on a strike at all! I think it will really place us in an awful situation.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: London
Hard to impose a change in working practices on a workforce who are sat at home.12000 people failing to report for duty means absolute disaster for BA.the operation ceases,utter chaos ensues,costs to the company are incalculable.do not underestimate the power of the employees to influence outcomes.just look at past cabin crew disputes,without exception the company has been damaged,financially and have a go managers have paid the price.ok,so impose the threats and just see what happens,i dread to think of the consequences.
It will cost BA a huge amount of money and that has to come from somewhere! It could, at worse case scenario, mean that more than 2000 crew has to go.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
I think BA know that a strike is in reality very unlikley given the economic climate. It would take a very brave , perhaps stupid, union to call workers out during this downturn as it may just sound the death knell for BA as we know it.
Time for tact and diplomacy as BA management will know that they are under pressure too - they need the make the business profitable and have very little room to negotiate.
Time for tact and diplomacy as BA management will know that they are under pressure too - they need the make the business profitable and have very little room to negotiate.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 3,585
Likes: 0
From: UK
bermudatriangle - Your posts are very difficult to read. Please learn to use punctuation and paragraphs - try to make it easier for your audience to understand.
If you cannot help us all by doing so, your posts may be deleted.
If you cannot help us all by doing so, your posts may be deleted.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: London
There is absolutely nothing illegal in making staff redundant if there is no work for them. With 16 aircraft not flying in the winter one would assume there would be surplus crew. It is unlikely 2000 c/c will decide to leave through normal retirement or for voluntary reasons other than VR. Hopefully 2000 will want to take the v/redundancy offer. I am not so sure this will happen because I have seen that only a few c/c have left in the past few years according to the retirements etc section in the BA news.
I know so many people outside the aircraft industry who have been made redundant recently, few have found alternative employment and are unlikely to do so for a long time.
I know so many people outside the aircraft industry who have been made redundant recently, few have found alternative employment and are unlikely to do so for a long time.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
From: Gatwick
There are rules to be followed when making dismissing people by redundancy. Rules about recruitment and how and when you are allowed to recruit into a position of the dismissed person. I am sure the BA and Unite legal teams are drawing up battle plans to fight each other on this issue.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
From: london
Well, a straw poll home saw 4 older members of my crew yelp with delight when I told them the news, they can't afford to take the company up on the offer of VR, but all had been waiting for 50%, so thats 2 of the 2000 out the way.
Another PSR who had 30 years service had been waiting for severance since she was 55, I'm guessing she was 57, but I never ask a women her age, so she wanted to go.
Litbulb, any company can make anyone redundant, true with a large company like BA and a union like Unite, the selection criteria need to be transparent, BA served the legally required 90 days notice yesterday, along with a selection criteria should it come to CR, I am sure Unites solicitors are looking at it now, but if the numbers don't add up expect to see some CR. Expect to see some challenges also, however these will take place a long time after the dust has settled.
I'm with other people here, exactly what are current crew going to go on strike over??
Another PSR who had 30 years service had been waiting for severance since she was 55, I'm guessing she was 57, but I never ask a women her age, so she wanted to go.
Litbulb, any company can make anyone redundant, true with a large company like BA and a union like Unite, the selection criteria need to be transparent, BA served the legally required 90 days notice yesterday, along with a selection criteria should it come to CR, I am sure Unites solicitors are looking at it now, but if the numbers don't add up expect to see some CR. Expect to see some challenges also, however these will take place a long time after the dust has settled.
I'm with other people here, exactly what are current crew going to go on strike over??
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: London
I'm with other people here, exactly what are current crew going to go on strike over??
It seems to be a mixture over WW and his management "telling lies" about the financial problems and that costs must come down, the new fleet which is being introduced, a two year pay freeze, reduction of crew (harder work for less money) and obviously what impact it will have on crew rest.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,606
Likes: 0
From: UK
There are rules to be followed when making dismissing people by redundancy. Rules about recruitment and how and when you are allowed to recruit into a position of the dismissed person.
Happy to be proven wrong, but I do not believe there is any restriction on re-recruitment into the same position from which someone has just been made redundant; the rules cover instead re-recruitment of the same person, and tax avoidance by both company and individual of the tax-free "severance".