BA and Project Columbus II
Pay scales will have no time served increments, any increase in basic pay will be performance related.
Merit promotion.
No Seniority.
Crew will not operate to either Worldwide or Shorthaul agreements but to BA Scheme Limitations document only - For your information this is covered in your Blue Joint Operations procedures manual part 2, pages 78 to 107 inclusive. A link to show scheme details is also available via the BASSA website under agreements.
There will be no MBT etc just scheme days off.
Preference bidding to scheme.
BA project in year one 850 crew to be flying on this new fleet and 2075 by end of year two (remember EF has only 2314 crew and LGW single fleet, 1189.
Long-term this will lead to the total restructuring of cabin crew costs.
Proposed changes to existing crews terms and conditions ("restrictive practices") from this list:
1) Remove double night on LAX, SFO, PHX, MEX.
2) Reduce 777 crew compliment by 1 on long-range 4 class.
3) MBT to be a maximum of 4 local nights irrespective trip.
4) Reduce annual leave for all crew to 34 days from 36.
5) Completely flexible rosters, no fixed trips.
6) One main crew member removed from 777- 3 class.
* Details of item to be confirmed
7) Annual increment freeze for one year for all crew.
8 ) Remove one main crew from worldwide destinations that at present receive the extra crew member as agreed post September 11th 2001. For the summer they are CCU- DAC- DEN -CPT (042) MAA- MEX- MIA- MRU- PEK
9) Remove the early report day allowing report times prior to 0800.
10) Bidding only on EF, ending the 6-3 and 5-2 and job share work patterns.
11) Removal of 767 CSD on EF.
12) All Crew grades to be planned/rostered to work up or down with no extra payment or restriction.
13) Remove one main crew member from 777 long-range top up.
* Details of Item To be confirmed
14) Extension on Eurofleet working day from 12.30 hours to 15.00.
15) Allow earlier report/start and later debrief/finish times.
16) Replace all 24hr stand-by with 12 hour.
17) One purser to be removed from all 747 and 777.
18 ) Remove EF Club top-up crewing level agreement.
19) No meal allowances to be triggered whilst in flight.
20) Reduction of Box-One payments by 50%
21) Back-To-Back payments to be reduced by 50%.
22) All destination payments to be permanently removed. For summer these will be paid on MIA- LAD -DEN -DAR -SEA YVR- EBB- IAH- DFW -YYC
23) Pay actual ETP rather than planned.
24) Remove STR payments and introduce fixed links also with no payment - EF.
25) Replace QRS with airport standby.
26) Reduce report and debrief times i.e., shorten duty day timings.
27) Removal of telephone allowance.
28 ) Change definition of EF night duty.
29) Exchange 2 pursers from all 767, 747, 777 to junior crew positions (switching roles).
30) No CSD on 757 EF.
31) Switch one purser at LGW for main crew member.
These are potentially in addition to a two-year pay freeze.
Now we have been able to share this list, you will see first-hand the scale of the challenge we face, there are no easy options available. This will require ongoing and extensive consultation between us, as your representatives and you, as our members. This is something you need to become involved in, right now and take an active interest, it will affect every single one of us, it's not even a question of supporting your union, it's a question of being involved in some really hard and far reaching decisions that are not going to go away.
BASSA and Amicus sections of UNITE will continue to work closely together to do our best to protect your future, we will not kid you that this is going to be an easy task but please be assured that we will be doing our very best for you.We have now told BA that we will not meet next week as we wanted to start the consultation process with you over the next several days. Talks will however reconvene on the 30th and then obviously we have our branch meeting at Kempton Park on the 6th April when a full and frank debate will no doubt be forthcoming.
Merit promotion.
No Seniority.
Crew will not operate to either Worldwide or Shorthaul agreements but to BA Scheme Limitations document only - For your information this is covered in your Blue Joint Operations procedures manual part 2, pages 78 to 107 inclusive. A link to show scheme details is also available via the BASSA website under agreements.
There will be no MBT etc just scheme days off.
Preference bidding to scheme.
BA project in year one 850 crew to be flying on this new fleet and 2075 by end of year two (remember EF has only 2314 crew and LGW single fleet, 1189.
Long-term this will lead to the total restructuring of cabin crew costs.
Proposed changes to existing crews terms and conditions ("restrictive practices") from this list:
1) Remove double night on LAX, SFO, PHX, MEX.
2) Reduce 777 crew compliment by 1 on long-range 4 class.
3) MBT to be a maximum of 4 local nights irrespective trip.
4) Reduce annual leave for all crew to 34 days from 36.
5) Completely flexible rosters, no fixed trips.
6) One main crew member removed from 777- 3 class.
* Details of item to be confirmed
7) Annual increment freeze for one year for all crew.
8 ) Remove one main crew from worldwide destinations that at present receive the extra crew member as agreed post September 11th 2001. For the summer they are CCU- DAC- DEN -CPT (042) MAA- MEX- MIA- MRU- PEK
9) Remove the early report day allowing report times prior to 0800.
10) Bidding only on EF, ending the 6-3 and 5-2 and job share work patterns.
11) Removal of 767 CSD on EF.
12) All Crew grades to be planned/rostered to work up or down with no extra payment or restriction.
13) Remove one main crew member from 777 long-range top up.
* Details of Item To be confirmed
14) Extension on Eurofleet working day from 12.30 hours to 15.00.
15) Allow earlier report/start and later debrief/finish times.
16) Replace all 24hr stand-by with 12 hour.
17) One purser to be removed from all 747 and 777.
18 ) Remove EF Club top-up crewing level agreement.
19) No meal allowances to be triggered whilst in flight.
20) Reduction of Box-One payments by 50%
21) Back-To-Back payments to be reduced by 50%.
22) All destination payments to be permanently removed. For summer these will be paid on MIA- LAD -DEN -DAR -SEA YVR- EBB- IAH- DFW -YYC
23) Pay actual ETP rather than planned.
24) Remove STR payments and introduce fixed links also with no payment - EF.
25) Replace QRS with airport standby.
26) Reduce report and debrief times i.e., shorten duty day timings.
27) Removal of telephone allowance.
28 ) Change definition of EF night duty.
29) Exchange 2 pursers from all 767, 747, 777 to junior crew positions (switching roles).
30) No CSD on 757 EF.
31) Switch one purser at LGW for main crew member.
These are potentially in addition to a two-year pay freeze.
Now we have been able to share this list, you will see first-hand the scale of the challenge we face, there are no easy options available. This will require ongoing and extensive consultation between us, as your representatives and you, as our members. This is something you need to become involved in, right now and take an active interest, it will affect every single one of us, it's not even a question of supporting your union, it's a question of being involved in some really hard and far reaching decisions that are not going to go away.
BASSA and Amicus sections of UNITE will continue to work closely together to do our best to protect your future, we will not kid you that this is going to be an easy task but please be assured that we will be doing our very best for you.We have now told BA that we will not meet next week as we wanted to start the consultation process with you over the next several days. Talks will however reconvene on the 30th and then obviously we have our branch meeting at Kempton Park on the 6th April when a full and frank debate will no doubt be forthcoming.
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Not exactly rocket science that lot! 
Oddly enough the costs across the company are not equal, I wonder why???
Bizarrely, it all seems achievable.
I refer to my post above.
Lets see what happens now as, no doubt, there will be a BASSA call to arms.
Oddly enough the costs across the company are not equal, I wonder why???
Bizarrely, it all seems achievable.
I refer to my post above.
Lets see what happens now as, no doubt, there will be a BASSA call to arms.
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I would rather be the Straw that broke the Camels back and Bring the whole lot of Willie and His Gang down with me, than roll over and accept the changes BA propose. If we accept only a few of those changes or Sign upto Sinlgefleet LHR the job won't be worth anything anyway so sorry to upset the Nigels on here who would love to see us shafted but i'm with BASSA 100% and i'm prepared to fight this to the bitter end, and if we lose it would be no worse than accepting these changes anyway. Either way it would be time for pastures new but at least putting up a fight it might be time for Willie to start looking for employment somewhere else too.
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sorry to upset the Nigels on here who would love to see us shafted
The 'sod you lot, we are all off on strike' will just earn you the loss of a job and early employment for the 'hold pool' recruits.
Welcome to the real world.
P.S. Whats
Sinlgefleet
PPRuNe Person
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Rach-G, your union has put you squarely in the firing-line. However I despair when hear such attitudes. You would rather have no job than give up the conditions you now have? 
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You really don`t want the honest truth believe me.
Its a case of more you have the more you have to lose.
The new contract crew don`t have that much to lose. Old contract perhaps more. Now that the "wish list" has been published on pprune, you do the maths.
New contract crew pay scales Feb2008 main crew
year 0 11338
year 1 11621
year 2 11905
year 3 12259
year 4 12967
year 5 13820
year 6 14668
year 7 15696
year 8 16524
years 9-12 were put in place after the last lot of non sense
year 9 17496
year 10 18360
year 11 19224
year 12 20088
now cut those meal allowances..
people live to what they are paid generally and of course more as been proved over the last few months.
So new contract crew take pay cuts (ie removal of allowances etc) so lets take someone on scale 8 years service. £1377 before tax/NI. Now lets pay some bills.. rent? mortgage? Around Heathrow area? Council tax.. now remember some council tax is going to be big this year due to Icelandic banking... water bills electric gas petrol
So be honest what does a new contract crew member have left? mmmm so they can`t pay the mortgage? sell there accommodation? or get repo-ed?
So you loose your property, credit card debts rise, CCJ`s mount up...etc..
With all that on the offer plate I think you will find some very surprising answers, and most will be to fight for something. If they lose they have at least fort, they may win or lose...
now I have tried to put this as carefully and as pleasantly as I can; Its not to knock anybody here. But I think the new contract crew rates needed to be published, I don`t know the old ones. But the wish list hurts the lower paid crew members much more than your old contract LH CSD`s.
And no you wouldn`t like my answer to that question your asking.
Its a case of more you have the more you have to lose.
The new contract crew don`t have that much to lose. Old contract perhaps more. Now that the "wish list" has been published on pprune, you do the maths.
New contract crew pay scales Feb2008 main crew
year 0 11338
year 1 11621
year 2 11905
year 3 12259
year 4 12967
year 5 13820
year 6 14668
year 7 15696
year 8 16524
years 9-12 were put in place after the last lot of non sense
year 9 17496
year 10 18360
year 11 19224
year 12 20088
now cut those meal allowances..
people live to what they are paid generally and of course more as been proved over the last few months.
So new contract crew take pay cuts (ie removal of allowances etc) so lets take someone on scale 8 years service. £1377 before tax/NI. Now lets pay some bills.. rent? mortgage? Around Heathrow area? Council tax.. now remember some council tax is going to be big this year due to Icelandic banking... water bills electric gas petrol
So be honest what does a new contract crew member have left? mmmm so they can`t pay the mortgage? sell there accommodation? or get repo-ed?
So you loose your property, credit card debts rise, CCJ`s mount up...etc..
With all that on the offer plate I think you will find some very surprising answers, and most will be to fight for something. If they lose they have at least fort, they may win or lose...
now I have tried to put this as carefully and as pleasantly as I can; Its not to knock anybody here. But I think the new contract crew rates needed to be published, I don`t know the old ones. But the wish list hurts the lower paid crew members much more than your old contract LH CSD`s.
And no you wouldn`t like my answer to that question your asking.
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Tiger,
If you re-read my post above I think you will find that I also stated that the LH CSD's want to protect the current status quo as they are the ones who benefit the most from it. They are aware that the current system treats new entrants poorly. However, if you get rid of a lot of the 'uncertainty' applicable to dropped trips and missed payments due to restrictive working practices, put them into a stable roster coupled with a fixed rate then you can guarantee your wage at the end of the month and budget accordingly. The allowances are averaged and then applied to the basic per sector/flying hour.
Everyone has big bills to pay and, to be honest, just about everyone lives to their means and a pay cut hurts just as much as the outgoings will be, proportionately, the same. Strike action will not help anyone. Everyone needs to be grown up about this. If the share price tumbles and the value of the company becomes such that a hostile takeover is on the books then look carefully at both your current contract and the one BA is proposing now. Because, guaranteed, the one you get foisted on yourself after a take over is going to be a whole lot more painful! Either that or the dole queue.
It's a democracy (supposedly) so it's your choice.
If you re-read my post above I think you will find that I also stated that the LH CSD's want to protect the current status quo as they are the ones who benefit the most from it. They are aware that the current system treats new entrants poorly. However, if you get rid of a lot of the 'uncertainty' applicable to dropped trips and missed payments due to restrictive working practices, put them into a stable roster coupled with a fixed rate then you can guarantee your wage at the end of the month and budget accordingly. The allowances are averaged and then applied to the basic per sector/flying hour.
Everyone has big bills to pay and, to be honest, just about everyone lives to their means and a pay cut hurts just as much as the outgoings will be, proportionately, the same. Strike action will not help anyone. Everyone needs to be grown up about this. If the share price tumbles and the value of the company becomes such that a hostile takeover is on the books then look carefully at both your current contract and the one BA is proposing now. Because, guaranteed, the one you get foisted on yourself after a take over is going to be a whole lot more painful! Either that or the dole queue.
It's a democracy (supposedly) so it's your choice.
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The issue of an hourly rate has been discussed by BA and the TUs previously. The deal on the table was a single hourly rate similar to the £2.3odd paid at LGW SFG. No other payments, no rolling together of other payments, just the hourly rate. BASSA, sensibly said no. The company gave no room for negotiation, BASSA therefore said no further discussions on the subject.
Now, roll all our current payments together and offer a decent hourly rate plus enhanced flight pay, and ensure that at the end of the year my P60 reads the same plus yearly increments and I, as well as many others, would be open to the idea. But it just isn't on the table.
Now, roll all our current payments together and offer a decent hourly rate plus enhanced flight pay, and ensure that at the end of the year my P60 reads the same plus yearly increments and I, as well as many others, would be open to the idea. But it just isn't on the table.
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Rach G - you definitely talk a good fight but I suggest you take five minutes and honestly consider your position. Would you really prefer to take 'Willie and his gang' down, even if it means you're on the dole queue in the midst of a recession? If you find yourself out of a job do you think you'll find another source of income to tide you over 'til the upturn?
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I can't see Mr Walsh being 'taken down'.
I can however see him getting on the phone to some of the prospective new starters he's got curently 'on hold'.
"We're not in Kansas anymore Toto".
Or the 1970's.
I can however see him getting on the phone to some of the prospective new starters he's got curently 'on hold'.
"We're not in Kansas anymore Toto".
Or the 1970's.
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Folks - due to the length of this thread, we've started a new one HERE. This purely for housekeeping and ease-of-use purposes - The relevant posts about the BA proposals are copied across for you to refer to.
