BA and Project Columbus II
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Despite the name I am ba eurofleet crew.... Been flying for ba for just over 3 years and can honestly say that 1 sector days are few and far between. Yes they do exist but it is not a day to day occurance. Same for flight crew!!! My last trip was a Prague nightstop. 2 day 6 sector trip (both nearly 12 hour days).
I dont want to make this a flight crew versus cabin crew thread but on this occasion the flight crew had done 1 sector out to Prague and had all day there.
It works both ways.
I dont want to make this a flight crew versus cabin crew thread but on this occasion the flight crew had done 1 sector out to Prague and had all day there.
It works both ways.
Few and far between! You must be joking. Every week we see crews on "one out one back." Took some crew to Zurich a few days ago - one out one back. Todays crew - one out one back. We do a Lyon standover so we can operate the v early departure then finish with Algiers there and back. Guess what? Crew usually on one back.
And yes it is our business if outdated, inefficient work practices are costing our employer millions and endangering our livelihood.
And yes it is our business if outdated, inefficient work practices are costing our employer millions and endangering our livelihood.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Single sector days are so frequent they actually have a name.
Named after one of our pilots who dared speak up against the inefficient rostering (NOT the CC) - I've been told he's still self catering even now, several years on!!
Named after one of our pilots who dared speak up against the inefficient rostering (NOT the CC) - I've been told he's still self catering even now, several years on!!
Join Date: Apr 2002
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@ Pips,
Even if it did come out of BALPA reps mouth it doesn't carry any significance for me.
I have mates in both BMI and VS and I am certainly NOT earning more than my friends.
In fact if you look at the rostering in VS (max750) compared to my flying (avg 850 over last 3 years) I am actually cheaper than him.
But the problem herein lies not in the fact that the average (over a CAREER) might be slightly higher in BA, it's about being on par or offering more than market rate to attract a certain person.
The way I see it, as a pilot I am (check the CAA stats). Cabin Crew just seem to be paid 60% over the next highest paid group (VS) of crew.
Multiply that over 14000 crew and very very restrictive working practices during times of disruption or FTLs and you get a very Expensive department.
Therefore it's not a surprise that cost savings are being asked department specific.
Even if it did come out of BALPA reps mouth it doesn't carry any significance for me.
I have mates in both BMI and VS and I am certainly NOT earning more than my friends.
In fact if you look at the rostering in VS (max750) compared to my flying (avg 850 over last 3 years) I am actually cheaper than him.
But the problem herein lies not in the fact that the average (over a CAREER) might be slightly higher in BA, it's about being on par or offering more than market rate to attract a certain person.
The way I see it, as a pilot I am (check the CAA stats). Cabin Crew just seem to be paid 60% over the next highest paid group (VS) of crew.
Multiply that over 14000 crew and very very restrictive working practices during times of disruption or FTLs and you get a very Expensive department.
Therefore it's not a surprise that cost savings are being asked department specific.
Last edited by Shaka Zulu; 7th Mar 2009 at 15:55.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Between a rock & a hard place.
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Delete as appropriate.
Left hand not knowing what right hand is doing/Empire building/A cunning plan.
Whilst Walsh broadcasts to the media that job cuts are required at BA and all unnecessary recruitment has ceased. Whilst BA scales back its flying operation to meet demand and thus finds itself over cabin crew.
IfCE is not only still recruiting new cabin crew but also starting 5 new entrant courses in April. At the same time established crew are sat at home on full pay, below 900hrs, on weeks of 24hr availability. Unused. Our department costs are too high and we need savings. What savings are achieved by paying established crew to stay at home? And to continue bringing new crew online.
Unpaid leave offered to all crew in May. Upto 6 months unpaid leave offered to LGW crew. And still the 'pool' increases. Previous temps not invited back but new temps employed.
Where is the inefficiency in the department coming from?
The cunning plan. To create a pool of crew ready to jump in incase of industrial action. Lets hope experian are more than efficient with criminal record checks.
Left hand not knowing what right hand is doing/Empire building/A cunning plan.
Whilst Walsh broadcasts to the media that job cuts are required at BA and all unnecessary recruitment has ceased. Whilst BA scales back its flying operation to meet demand and thus finds itself over cabin crew.
IfCE is not only still recruiting new cabin crew but also starting 5 new entrant courses in April. At the same time established crew are sat at home on full pay, below 900hrs, on weeks of 24hr availability. Unused. Our department costs are too high and we need savings. What savings are achieved by paying established crew to stay at home? And to continue bringing new crew online.
Unpaid leave offered to all crew in May. Upto 6 months unpaid leave offered to LGW crew. And still the 'pool' increases. Previous temps not invited back but new temps employed.
Where is the inefficiency in the department coming from?
The cunning plan. To create a pool of crew ready to jump in incase of industrial action. Lets hope experian are more than efficient with criminal record checks.
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Flight Deck
You flight deck do make me laugh ! You harp on and on about the cost of BA Cabin Crew, yet it is you lot that should be cutting costs. You are all well overpaid compared to the Industry Standard, and on board, the majority of you on WW act like spoilt brats.
It was not long ago that you tried to bring the airline to a complete halt, and make fools of BA by marching up and down the Bath Road in protest of Open Skies. The only ones you made fools of were yourselves. Amongst all this, you were asking for support from your Cabin Crew collegues - Priceless !
Not a sound now - as you clearly think you have got your own way.
Whatever challenges we as crew face regarding OUR terms and conditions are clearly NON of your business.
It was not long ago that you tried to bring the airline to a complete halt, and make fools of BA by marching up and down the Bath Road in protest of Open Skies. The only ones you made fools of were yourselves. Amongst all this, you were asking for support from your Cabin Crew collegues - Priceless !
Not a sound now - as you clearly think you have got your own way.
Whatever challenges we as crew face regarding OUR terms and conditions are clearly NON of your business.
Last edited by hostie 39; 7th Mar 2009 at 21:54.
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Hostie 39,
Well, what a first post! This is no place for childish behaviour where different departments accuse each other of this, that and the other. There is no reason to come across as aggressive as you have done.
Most of us here are trying to have an adult discussion about this topic, so I'd recommend that you think and simmer down before your next post.
Gg
Well, what a first post! This is no place for childish behaviour where different departments accuse each other of this, that and the other. There is no reason to come across as aggressive as you have done.
Most of us here are trying to have an adult discussion about this topic, so I'd recommend that you think and simmer down before your next post.
Gg
Join Date: Apr 2002
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I am certainly not picking on anyone.
We are all in the same boat. Remember that the company is asking big savings of every single department in the airline.
Something that seems easily forgotten.
It's typical that an adult discussion needs to stoop to this level.
Once again I have no problem with pay above the average, BA is and always will be a premium airline. That's what we want to be and we want to attract a particular person for the job. So you don't hear me saying that you are worth nothing or that I don't support your lot. My wife is WW crew on the new salary for crying out loud.
However some of you really do need a reality check. It tends to be the ones on here with one liners and poor spelling. I'm sick and tired of your sickening attitude. Playground stuff.
We are all in the same boat. Remember that the company is asking big savings of every single department in the airline.
Something that seems easily forgotten.
It's typical that an adult discussion needs to stoop to this level.
Once again I have no problem with pay above the average, BA is and always will be a premium airline. That's what we want to be and we want to attract a particular person for the job. So you don't hear me saying that you are worth nothing or that I don't support your lot. My wife is WW crew on the new salary for crying out loud.
However some of you really do need a reality check. It tends to be the ones on here with one liners and poor spelling. I'm sick and tired of your sickening attitude. Playground stuff.
Last edited by Shaka Zulu; 8th Mar 2009 at 01:42.
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It's a general reply. The idea of being picked on might have something to do with the fact that there is a reason for it?
If I were you I would look at pushing the union into accepting a good hourly rate, some changes in lateness credit and disruption agreements. In return you should be pushing for a similar bidding system as flight crew have. Thereby earning you transparency and have a modicum of freedom over where you want to go and have an influence over the days you are working etc etc.
Change is inevitable. You might aswell box smart and get something really tangible in return.
If I were you I would look at pushing the union into accepting a good hourly rate, some changes in lateness credit and disruption agreements. In return you should be pushing for a similar bidding system as flight crew have. Thereby earning you transparency and have a modicum of freedom over where you want to go and have an influence over the days you are working etc etc.
Change is inevitable. You might aswell box smart and get something really tangible in return.
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Nasty ? Not at all - just the truth. Childish ? No - factual. You only have to look at the 'how much do you earn' thread to see you are all well overpaid.
What exactly is your contibution to the cost savings ? Oh, let me think - leaving the Club Kitchen for the customers - rather than going straight to it before take off , oh, and maybe actually BUYING a paper. The list goes on ..........................
What exactly is your contibution to the cost savings ? Oh, let me think - leaving the Club Kitchen for the customers - rather than going straight to it before take off , oh, and maybe actually BUYING a paper. The list goes on ..........................
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OK people, hostie 39īs first post has been shown up for what it is.
Stupid, petty and irrelevant.
Her agenda is obvious too, so she will not be participating further.
Please move on now. :)
Stupid, petty and irrelevant.
Her agenda is obvious too, so she will not be participating further.
Please move on now. :)
Getting towards end of 5 day tour now and all crew have been friendly, efficient and professional. There is absolutely no animosity towards them whatsoever. On the contrary, it's been a pleasure to work with them. However, and not for the first time this week, I will again ferry another 6 crew back to Heathrow who have worked "one out one back." This is not sustainable.
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I really feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall at times. I joined BA for its favourable terms and conditions.
I want to preserve my terms and conditions but I also understand there is a need to move with the times and some of our agreements need to be looked at.
You just can't come in with an axe and cut peoples terms and conditions overnight. We have mortgages etc and its all based on the money BA have happily been paying us to date.
I'm all for sharing the pain just as long as its equal through out the whole airline/operation.
So just remind me again what are the board members giving up? Are they having their salaries frozen/reduced?
I want to preserve my terms and conditions but I also understand there is a need to move with the times and some of our agreements need to be looked at.
You just can't come in with an axe and cut peoples terms and conditions overnight. We have mortgages etc and its all based on the money BA have happily been paying us to date.
I'm all for sharing the pain just as long as its equal through out the whole airline/operation.
So just remind me again what are the board members giving up? Are they having their salaries frozen/reduced?
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Ah Ham Phisted, that reminds of doing a 3 day MIA, We had pilots paxing with us, One lot of pilots, (can't remember whether it was the operating or paxing pilots) was doing a 4day MIA..
They couldn't explain it to me, when a certain number of flights go to MIA, and the same number fly back to LHR, why you have some paxing..? If you have some paxing west you'll have some paxing east. And it wasn't a different aircraft coming home either..
PS, it wasn't a one-off, it lasted for the quite a while as far as I know.
They couldn't explain it to me, when a certain number of flights go to MIA, and the same number fly back to LHR, why you have some paxing..? If you have some paxing west you'll have some paxing east. And it wasn't a different aircraft coming home either..
PS, it wasn't a one-off, it lasted for the quite a while as far as I know.
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@13 most probably to do with rest requirements however sometimes BA want us to be an extra day downroute (for instance India) to serve as a back up crew in the region.
Doesn't happen often anymore though. Summer/Winter schedule change over sees a lot of positioning. It's pretty rare these days to position anywhere on the network in my experience.
@Ozzie, I certainly wasn't advocating an axe but some don't even seem to want to engage in constructive dialogue. That blinkered view is a symptom of BASSA's bunker mentality over the years and now comes to a massive crunch because of the unwillingness to change.
Doesn't happen often anymore though. Summer/Winter schedule change over sees a lot of positioning. It's pretty rare these days to position anywhere on the network in my experience.
@Ozzie, I certainly wasn't advocating an axe but some don't even seem to want to engage in constructive dialogue. That blinkered view is a symptom of BASSA's bunker mentality over the years and now comes to a massive crunch because of the unwillingness to change.
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Being more of a reader than a poster I've been reading through this thread and I'm amazed how much unwillingness to listen to others points of view and the bickering goes on on this emotive subject.
BA are trying to push through long term change for a relatively sort term recession which will end, but BA will not reinstate the the terms and conditions and pay for it's cabin crew.
It's time to start supporting each other and stop bashing the perceived terms and conditions because the cabin crew will fight this and will fight to the bitter end.
I've heard many times from our cabin crew they would rather the company go to the wall than take the 30% pay cut BA want.
Perhaps you may think it's a puerile way of thinking, but if you think down the lines of "if you're going to have your house repossessed because of the 30% drop in pay you may as well fight to the bitter end and see the company go to the wall because I've nothing left to loose !!" Believe me this is not a threat just reality of the situation for many current BA cabin crew !!
Not to mention the current view of the cabin crew management but that's another emotive subject !!!
For those of you who have talked about cabin crew market rates and believe that's what we should be paid, I would like to point out the cabin crew all joined BA in much the same way you all joined to improve your pay and conditions or to work for the worlds best airline and why shouldn't they aspire to earn more over the course of their career ?
If you don't view being cabin crew as being a career with career advancement and the pay to go along with it. Think again because it has been a career for a great many people and still continues to be so at the moment.
If we could stop the bickering and work as one airborne team and support each other then maybe, just maybe we will all have careers at BA to be proud of.
right off to get my hard hat and take cover !!
BA are trying to push through long term change for a relatively sort term recession which will end, but BA will not reinstate the the terms and conditions and pay for it's cabin crew.
It's time to start supporting each other and stop bashing the perceived terms and conditions because the cabin crew will fight this and will fight to the bitter end.
I've heard many times from our cabin crew they would rather the company go to the wall than take the 30% pay cut BA want.
Perhaps you may think it's a puerile way of thinking, but if you think down the lines of "if you're going to have your house repossessed because of the 30% drop in pay you may as well fight to the bitter end and see the company go to the wall because I've nothing left to loose !!" Believe me this is not a threat just reality of the situation for many current BA cabin crew !!
Not to mention the current view of the cabin crew management but that's another emotive subject !!!
For those of you who have talked about cabin crew market rates and believe that's what we should be paid, I would like to point out the cabin crew all joined BA in much the same way you all joined to improve your pay and conditions or to work for the worlds best airline and why shouldn't they aspire to earn more over the course of their career ?
If you don't view being cabin crew as being a career with career advancement and the pay to go along with it. Think again because it has been a career for a great many people and still continues to be so at the moment.
If we could stop the bickering and work as one airborne team and support each other then maybe, just maybe we will all have careers at BA to be proud of.
right off to get my hard hat and take cover !!