Rude but not aggressive passengers
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Rude but not aggressive passengers
There is the other thread about passengers so offensive they can/should be offloaded. What about the much lower level stuff. The sort who thinks that the cabin crew are there to wait on them personally and to hell with anyone else. They complain about the food, their seat, the IFE, other passengers using the reading light when they want to sleep, the temperature...
I think they are more common nearer the front than the back, but not exclusively
Now I fly a fair bit on various transatlantic runs and encounter such types every now and again. My inclination when they are giving CC a hard time is to say "Oh ffs just stop whinging and shut up". However I always restrain myself on the basis that saying anything (even something more tactful) would just make the situation worse and feel that the best I can do is offer a sympathetic smile to the CC.
However is this right? - would you want us to say anything (more tactful than my first choice) to help?
p.s. I am also always tempted to do stuff like turn their IFE to a rock station and on full volume while they are in the loo - but don't
I think they are more common nearer the front than the back, but not exclusively
Now I fly a fair bit on various transatlantic runs and encounter such types every now and again. My inclination when they are giving CC a hard time is to say "Oh ffs just stop whinging and shut up". However I always restrain myself on the basis that saying anything (even something more tactful) would just make the situation worse and feel that the best I can do is offer a sympathetic smile to the CC.
However is this right? - would you want us to say anything (more tactful than my first choice) to help?
p.s. I am also always tempted to do stuff like turn their IFE to a rock station and on full volume while they are in the loo - but don't
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I was operating on a flight from London to Warsaw and when preparing the cabin for landing, an English-speaking Polish lad, her husband and their daughter were sat towards the rear and I politely asked the lady to strap her daughter onto her lap using the lap belt used for landing. The child had no form of discipline at all and was refusing to sit down properly to which the mother said "She won't sit down, look". I informed her that unless the child was correctly seated we would be unable to land but made a thing of it as if to say that she was unable to do anything about it. I finished securing the rest of my area and went back to the lady who had still got no further with getting her child to sit down properly. At this point I had to be a bit more assertive as we were getting very low so she reluctantly pulled the child onto her lap, kicking and screaming and we landed fine.
As we slowed down on the runway, I saw the child then in the aisle obviously totally unrestrained but still moving at around 40 knots so I obviously had to go back to the lady and tell her that her child needs to sit down until we stop completely. Again she made a huge fuss and refuse. At this point I then insisted that the child sit down and stay there until the seatbelt signs were released for her own safety as the mother seemed to have no grasp of the fact this was all for her daughter's safety and not just for her to have an easy life because of her ill-disciplined child. This time she got the message and the child was sat on her seat, again making a huge amount of noise.
During disembarkation, I was smiling at everyone and saying thank you, goodbye etc and even smiled at the lady who had caused so much trouble however instead of just getting off normally, she just looked at me and said, "You c*nt". I was totally shocked. My colleague who was with me at the door just looked at me and unfortunately, she wasn't the most calm of people and actually followed her down the steps and gave her a piece of her mind.
I just couldn't believe it. Because her daughter had no discipline and she just wanted to have an easy life, regardless of the safety of her daughter and the other passengers who also may have been injured, she felt it was necessary to abuse ME! Some people are just full of class!
As we slowed down on the runway, I saw the child then in the aisle obviously totally unrestrained but still moving at around 40 knots so I obviously had to go back to the lady and tell her that her child needs to sit down until we stop completely. Again she made a huge fuss and refuse. At this point I then insisted that the child sit down and stay there until the seatbelt signs were released for her own safety as the mother seemed to have no grasp of the fact this was all for her daughter's safety and not just for her to have an easy life because of her ill-disciplined child. This time she got the message and the child was sat on her seat, again making a huge amount of noise.
During disembarkation, I was smiling at everyone and saying thank you, goodbye etc and even smiled at the lady who had caused so much trouble however instead of just getting off normally, she just looked at me and said, "You c*nt". I was totally shocked. My colleague who was with me at the door just looked at me and unfortunately, she wasn't the most calm of people and actually followed her down the steps and gave her a piece of her mind.
I just couldn't believe it. Because her daughter had no discipline and she just wanted to have an easy life, regardless of the safety of her daughter and the other passengers who also may have been injured, she felt it was necessary to abuse ME! Some people are just full of class!
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I know that airlines need every passenger they can get at the moment but abuse to CC like that should be met with a ban from any future flights from on that airline. I've worked with the general public for many years in a different capacity and there's no way I would take someone talking to me like that. So sorry that you had to receive that kind of treatment from someone who you were trying to keep safe!
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Ah! The "I'm determined to find something wrong, so that I can have a really bad flight" passenger. A fairly unusual species, although becoming more common. Can often to be found in a business suit, and as ProM has noticed, tends to congregate towards the nose of the aircraft, but a species that can provide many hours of amusement for the cabin crew!
I have always found that the best way to deal with these people is to become more and more sickly sweet the nastier they get. They hate that!
It reminds me of a passenger on my flight that was determined to cause a fuss over anything he could. He'd ordered a Kosher meal, but when I took it out to him he kicked off saying he didn't want that rubbish. No problem sir, I have a spare standard meal and I'll send a report to the exec club immediately for you, Sir! Then he didn't want to put his seat back upright while everyone else ate, so having empathised with him in my best, symathetic, "poor you, you must be so tired being such an obviously important and busy business man", manner, I found him a spare seat so he could sleep. This went on through the whole flight. Everything he complained about, I found an instant solution, (good luck was on my side!) and he got more and more frustrated. Finally, when securing the cabin for landing, he was obviously going for anything he could think of and yelled at me that my PA's were crap and he couldn't understand a word. Well obviously, I was very apologetic and just before I sat down, I did the lights for landing PA, which went something along the lines of;
"LADIES AND GENTLEMEN....I WILL NOW BE DIMMING THE CABIN LIGHTS FOR LANDING....THIS IS NORMAL PROCEDURE......"
before sitting down and beaming at my disgruntled passenger whilst mouthing, "was that OK?" to him! The giggles from everyone else in club, who were heartedly sick of this man, not to mention the shocked faces of the other crew peering out from the rear galley, made it worth every second!
Sorry, I went off on a bit of a tangent there, but in answer to your question, I'd have to say don't get involved. By saying something, you could be giving these people further fuel and that's exactly what they want. We, as crew, are used to dealing with this type of situation and know not to indulge their little tantrums. Think of how you'd deal with a 2 yr old, minus the naughty step, and you can't go far wrong.
Jsl
I have always found that the best way to deal with these people is to become more and more sickly sweet the nastier they get. They hate that!
It reminds me of a passenger on my flight that was determined to cause a fuss over anything he could. He'd ordered a Kosher meal, but when I took it out to him he kicked off saying he didn't want that rubbish. No problem sir, I have a spare standard meal and I'll send a report to the exec club immediately for you, Sir! Then he didn't want to put his seat back upright while everyone else ate, so having empathised with him in my best, symathetic, "poor you, you must be so tired being such an obviously important and busy business man", manner, I found him a spare seat so he could sleep. This went on through the whole flight. Everything he complained about, I found an instant solution, (good luck was on my side!) and he got more and more frustrated. Finally, when securing the cabin for landing, he was obviously going for anything he could think of and yelled at me that my PA's were crap and he couldn't understand a word. Well obviously, I was very apologetic and just before I sat down, I did the lights for landing PA, which went something along the lines of;
"LADIES AND GENTLEMEN....I WILL NOW BE DIMMING THE CABIN LIGHTS FOR LANDING....THIS IS NORMAL PROCEDURE......"
before sitting down and beaming at my disgruntled passenger whilst mouthing, "was that OK?" to him! The giggles from everyone else in club, who were heartedly sick of this man, not to mention the shocked faces of the other crew peering out from the rear galley, made it worth every second!
Sorry, I went off on a bit of a tangent there, but in answer to your question, I'd have to say don't get involved. By saying something, you could be giving these people further fuel and that's exactly what they want. We, as crew, are used to dealing with this type of situation and know not to indulge their little tantrums. Think of how you'd deal with a 2 yr old, minus the naughty step, and you can't go far wrong.
Jsl
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Cornishflyer's post doesn't surprise me (althought it does disgust me). Aside from businessmen, many of whom think all safety regs do not apply to them, I have noticed that parents can be amonst thge worst.
Having had much time to think about such things I have concluded that a high proprortion of parents who take young children on flights (esp holiday flights) are very selfish, because the flight is for their benefit not their childrens (for whom a flight is hell and who would just as rather hoiday in cornwall as in the caribbean for example). Thus such people, beoing selfish, are more likely to react badly to safety instructions.
Of course they say the flight is so that Arabella can learn about different cultures or whatever. No, its so you can soak up some sun
I appreciate this is a sweeping generalisation so please don't be offended if you have taken your children on a flight and this doesn't apply to you, but I do believe there is an element of truth in it
Having had much time to think about such things I have concluded that a high proprortion of parents who take young children on flights (esp holiday flights) are very selfish, because the flight is for their benefit not their childrens (for whom a flight is hell and who would just as rather hoiday in cornwall as in the caribbean for example). Thus such people, beoing selfish, are more likely to react badly to safety instructions.
Of course they say the flight is so that Arabella can learn about different cultures or whatever. No, its so you can soak up some sun
I appreciate this is a sweeping generalisation so please don't be offended if you have taken your children on a flight and this doesn't apply to you, but I do believe there is an element of truth in it
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ProM,
People not listening to safety instructions is a whole different ball game and not something I will tolerate, especially after the flight I once operated. I'm not sure this is the ideal place for it, but seeing as it's been brought up, let me tell you what happened to us. If it makes even one person change their ways, it will be worth it.
We were operating a fairly short flight into a European destination. I'd been warned by the captain that it was likely to be bumpy coming into land, not unusual during the winter months, and I had passed this on to my crew. For this reason, we had planned to secure the cabin 15 minutes before landing instead of the usual 10 but, following a last minute shortcut, that went out of the window and we only had 10 minutes. I did the usual landing PA regarding seatbacks, seatbelts, computers etc as the crew started securing from the back. Yet on entering the cabin to start securing from the front, many people were still tapping away on their lap tops, going to the loo etc. As a result, it took longer than usual as we were having to stand over people while they put everything away. Having finally met the crew from the back, I told them to strap in and turned to go to my own jumpseat. Out the corner of my eye, I saw a child stand on the seat. Back I went, to speak to the parents and make sure they strapped her in. Again, I had to stand and wait as she didn't want a seatbelt on until I had to tell them to force her to wear it. I finally managed to get back to the front. Almost immediately after that, we hit previously unreported, severe turbulence. I wasn't strapped in as I'd been stuck in the cabin for so long. Luckily, I managed to grab a cupboard door and hung on for dear life. I wasn't touching the cabin floor. When we finally stabalised slightly, I was able to make it to my jumpseat. Thankfully, in this instance, no one was hurt but it doesn't bear thinking about what would have happened if I had not spotted the child that wasn't strapped in.
When people don't listen to instructions and think they can ignore the landing PA, they are putting us at risk! If we hadn't have had to spend so long in the cabin, I would have been safely sat down.
Please think about this the next time the seatbelt sign goes on.
Jsl
People not listening to safety instructions is a whole different ball game and not something I will tolerate, especially after the flight I once operated. I'm not sure this is the ideal place for it, but seeing as it's been brought up, let me tell you what happened to us. If it makes even one person change their ways, it will be worth it.
We were operating a fairly short flight into a European destination. I'd been warned by the captain that it was likely to be bumpy coming into land, not unusual during the winter months, and I had passed this on to my crew. For this reason, we had planned to secure the cabin 15 minutes before landing instead of the usual 10 but, following a last minute shortcut, that went out of the window and we only had 10 minutes. I did the usual landing PA regarding seatbacks, seatbelts, computers etc as the crew started securing from the back. Yet on entering the cabin to start securing from the front, many people were still tapping away on their lap tops, going to the loo etc. As a result, it took longer than usual as we were having to stand over people while they put everything away. Having finally met the crew from the back, I told them to strap in and turned to go to my own jumpseat. Out the corner of my eye, I saw a child stand on the seat. Back I went, to speak to the parents and make sure they strapped her in. Again, I had to stand and wait as she didn't want a seatbelt on until I had to tell them to force her to wear it. I finally managed to get back to the front. Almost immediately after that, we hit previously unreported, severe turbulence. I wasn't strapped in as I'd been stuck in the cabin for so long. Luckily, I managed to grab a cupboard door and hung on for dear life. I wasn't touching the cabin floor. When we finally stabalised slightly, I was able to make it to my jumpseat. Thankfully, in this instance, no one was hurt but it doesn't bear thinking about what would have happened if I had not spotted the child that wasn't strapped in.
When people don't listen to instructions and think they can ignore the landing PA, they are putting us at risk! If we hadn't have had to spend so long in the cabin, I would have been safely sat down.
Please think about this the next time the seatbelt sign goes on.
Jsl
Last edited by jetset lady; 2nd Dec 2008 at 12:36.
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ProM said
This year to date, I have observed
No of pax not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 0
No of CC not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 2
No of CC running to make seat whilst engines spooling up = 1
Now, would you like not reconsider your little rant?
PS: I am a businessman
Cornishflyer's post doesn't surprise me (althought it does disgust me). Aside from businessmen, many of whom think all safety regs do not apply to them, I have noticed that parents can be amonst thge worst.
No of pax not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 0
No of CC not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 2
No of CC running to make seat whilst engines spooling up = 1
Now, would you like not reconsider your little rant?
PS: I am a businessman
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Flying in Baltic Europe is a hot-spot for SLF thinking that main wheel touchdown is an indication to unbuckle and start retrieving overhead luggage - in one case I can remember while positioning out of RIX, all before the nose wheel was down.
When I am at the pointy end and hear the "remain seated" rant for the 3rd time, the temptation to cause an abrupt halt from 30kts to 0 in the space of a couple of seconds is so high as to be almost impossible to contain....... One day, and they won't do it again
RIX
When I am at the pointy end and hear the "remain seated" rant for the 3rd time, the temptation to cause an abrupt halt from 30kts to 0 in the space of a couple of seconds is so high as to be almost impossible to contain....... One day, and they won't do it again
RIX
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Nice question ProM. The type of pax you mention is indeed a separate specimen. They are a strain on the CC, and their ceaseless time-consumption is detrimental to the other pax.
The procedural answer is let the CC deal with the attention seeker as they are trained to do.
Then again......
These people often play for the gallery, their fellow pax, in the mistaken belief that everybody around them agrees with their jaundiced view of everything and everybody. The approval they percieve from their neighbours appears to feed them.
I have seen a number of instances where, as soon as their fellow pax quietly or loudly, pointed out that they did not in fact agree at all with the attention seeker and heartily supported the CC, the misbehaviour stopped abruptly.
So I for one am always very grateful when a fellow passenger politely or jokingly interferes and puts an end to the behaviour.
Not a very clear answer is it?
... may years ago on the upperdeck of a 747. group of top echelon chaps from our country's biggest bank and a group from a large petroleum company.
The bankers, one of them in particular, were claiming their unfair share of attention, being very rude to the CC and never stopped whingeing. It was as if they were egging each other on to greater feats of rudeness, with one particularly obnoxious ringleader.
Over the pond a petroleum engineer could take no more.
"Hey you big important Banker man. If you hate it so much here, why don't you do us all a favour and fly Virgin next time? Take Branson's balloon and with any luck they won't chuck you out the basket half way!"
Much laughter on the whole upperdeck, and no more whingeing from the bankers. The Oilman had turned the atmosphere around with one yelled sentence, and suddenly all the other bankers privately advised us that their colleague was a known jack@ss and they'd report him to higher management.
The bankers got the service they had paid for, the Oilers got pampered within an inch of their lives.
The procedural answer is let the CC deal with the attention seeker as they are trained to do.
Then again......
These people often play for the gallery, their fellow pax, in the mistaken belief that everybody around them agrees with their jaundiced view of everything and everybody. The approval they percieve from their neighbours appears to feed them.
I have seen a number of instances where, as soon as their fellow pax quietly or loudly, pointed out that they did not in fact agree at all with the attention seeker and heartily supported the CC, the misbehaviour stopped abruptly.
So I for one am always very grateful when a fellow passenger politely or jokingly interferes and puts an end to the behaviour.
Not a very clear answer is it?
... may years ago on the upperdeck of a 747. group of top echelon chaps from our country's biggest bank and a group from a large petroleum company.
The bankers, one of them in particular, were claiming their unfair share of attention, being very rude to the CC and never stopped whingeing. It was as if they were egging each other on to greater feats of rudeness, with one particularly obnoxious ringleader.
Over the pond a petroleum engineer could take no more.
"Hey you big important Banker man. If you hate it so much here, why don't you do us all a favour and fly Virgin next time? Take Branson's balloon and with any luck they won't chuck you out the basket half way!"
Much laughter on the whole upperdeck, and no more whingeing from the bankers. The Oilman had turned the atmosphere around with one yelled sentence, and suddenly all the other bankers privately advised us that their colleague was a known jack@ss and they'd report him to higher management.
The bankers got the service they had paid for, the Oilers got pampered within an inch of their lives.
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Hmm, well I've been flying for 6 years and never seen a crew member unsecured for t/o or landing so you must be a very lucky guy However as it is our job to make sure all the pax are strapped in, I've never seen that either
As for the engines powering up, I'm guessing you're referring to when doing so for takeoff. Again, unless it's safety related, I've never seen this happen however the amount of people making a huge fuss when on secure goes well into treble figures but unfortunately a large number are businessmen who do seem to think that the regs are more of an inconvenience to them instead of a safety mechanism for them and everyone else. Of course not all businessmen are like this as I am sure you are not F3G but unfortunately there are a lot that don't follow your example
However as it is our job to make sure all the pax are strapped in, I've never seen that eitherAs for the engines powering up, I'm guessing you're referring to when doing so for takeoff. Again, unless it's safety related, I've never seen this happen however the amount of people making a huge fuss when on secure goes well into treble figures but unfortunately a large number are businessmen who do seem to think that the regs are more of an inconvenience to them instead of a safety mechanism for them and everyone else. Of course not all businessmen are like this as I am sure you are not F3G but unfortunately there are a lot that don't follow your example
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I know that airlines need every passenger they can get at the moment but abuse to CC like that should be met with a ban from any future flights from on that airline. I've worked with the general public for many years in a different capacity and there's no way I would take someone talking to me like that. So sorry that you had to receive that kind of treatment from someone who you were trying to keep safe!
This isn't relevant to air travel but reinforces the point; rough as rags neighbours two doors up did a midnight flit from their property over the weekend.
I guess they owed rent or something but in their haste to leave they left behind two four month old kittens (who we already knew were flea-ridden and underfed) to fend for themselves outdoors.
Sat/Sun/Mon here in the UK has been bitterly cold........small animals die in the sorts of temperatures we've experienced. We couldn't get near the cats because they're timid but we made sure food was available for them.
The guy pitched back up today and gave us a mouthful for "interfering", I won't repeat his language
The chav-mentality is all around us, unfortunately you CC are stuck in a metal tube with them
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This year to date, I have observed
No of pax not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 0
No of CC not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 2
No of CC running to make seat whilst engines spooling up = 1
Now, would you like not reconsider your little rant?
PS: I am a businessman
No of pax not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 0
No of CC not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 2
No of CC running to make seat whilst engines spooling up = 1
Now, would you like not reconsider your little rant?
PS: I am a businessman
Final 3, with all due respect, is it just me who thinks you have a very strong desire to put CC down?
Surely, as posted in other threads, you are "the nice business man pax". However, may i contradict you with regards to the above?
No of pax not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 0
No of CC not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 2
No of CC not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 2
No of CC running to make seat whilst engines spooling up = 1
No of CC running to make seat whilst engines spooling up = 1
Some pax will always "go off on one" and it's the "CC's fault". Either it's because they are tired, they are delayed for a meeting, they are disturbed by some bad news they just received or they are simply mean, unmannered, disturbingly mean pax who make not only CC's life hell, but the girl's behind the Tesco's till, the aisle cleaners' in Boots or the charity raiser in the local mall.
Some people are like that. Unfortunately, there is nothing the CC (sticking to the subject) can do. We kinda have to put up/deal with it.
Going back to the subject the thread starter proposed, i have to say i refuse (deep down inside, but never show it like it is) to put up with rude pax. I can send a rude, obnoxious pax to hell with the sweetest smile on my face (JSL's attitude
) without them even noticing it. The nicest you are to them, the more annoyed/wind up they get. Such a blissful feeling...And to stress this one more time, no CC, worldwide, is being paid enough/or is on his/hers job description, to put up with these society rejects. And i say again, common sense won't cost a penny. But then again, some pax don't have the words "obnoxious pax" in their vocabulary.
Rgds,
ATS
PS: Don't get me started on the pax i had last night, who refused to stow his laptop bag from an emergency exit row for landing because "someone might steal it". And the fact that he called me his "servant" didn't help...
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ATS
Not because they were attending to pax.
One was doing something in the galley and had to run to his seat, the others were sitting down, talking to each other and apparently unaware that the aircraft had entered the active runway. as they had to rush to attach their harnesses.
BTW I was in seats 1C and 1D for thes two separate occurences, so had a pretty good view.
I don't wish to put any CC down, but the gratuitous stereotyping demanded a response, as does someone calling you a "servant", which is simply disgraceful.
I expect everyone to be reasonable and polite to each other.
Not because they were attending to pax.
One was doing something in the galley and had to run to his seat, the others were sitting down, talking to each other and apparently unaware that the aircraft had entered the active runway. as they had to rush to attach their harnesses.
BTW I was in seats 1C and 1D for thes two separate occurences, so had a pretty good view.
I don't wish to put any CC down, but the gratuitous stereotyping demanded a response, as does someone calling you a "servant", which is simply disgraceful.
I expect everyone to be reasonable and polite to each other.
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Final 3 Greens,
"No of pax not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 0"
Curious as to how you can determine that. Show of hands? Somehow count the clicks as seatbelts are put on? Post-flight exit poll? Enlighten me please.
Cheers
"No of pax not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 0"
Curious as to how you can determine that. Show of hands? Somehow count the clicks as seatbelts are put on? Post-flight exit poll? Enlighten me please.
Cheers
Years ago, in the mob I fly for, the techies used to give the cabin a one minute warning to takeoff which sometimes wasn't enough with some c/c still rushing to get seated. After a little thought and discussion, with all concerned, the cabin manager now checks with all the c/c, via the cabin interphone, that they are all ready for takeoff and then gives the techies a report saying such. The pre-takeoff checklist cannot be completed without this report.
Regards,
BH.
Regards,
BH.
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Curious as to how you can determine that. Show of hands? Somehow count the clicks as seatbelts are put on? Post-flight exit poll? Enlighten me please.
Does this enlighten you?
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Final 3. I too am a businessman. I'm hardly likely to tar us all with the same brush now am I? I'm just saying that familiarity breeds contempt with some
I don't know how many times you fly but I frequently see PAX taking belts off well before the a/c has reached the gate (sometimes before the end of roll-out), or ignoring seat belt sign when cruising in turbulence. You probably wouldn't see many from 1c/1d though, would you? I don't have a count because the number is too high.
I agree I don't see too many without belts on take off, possibly down to CC, but actually I haven't seen too many PAX needed to be told about that one.
I don't know how many times you fly but I frequently see PAX taking belts off well before the a/c has reached the gate (sometimes before the end of roll-out), or ignoring seat belt sign when cruising in turbulence. You probably wouldn't see many from 1c/1d though, would you? I don't have a count because the number is too high.
I agree I don't see too many without belts on take off, possibly down to CC, but actually I haven't seen too many PAX needed to be told about that one.
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How about a warning on tickets and on the inflight entertainment screen that says -
"Any pax ignoring the seat belt or safety instructions from CC will recieve no form of compensation from this airline in the event of injury"
"Any pax ignoring the seat belt or safety instructions from CC will recieve no form of compensation from this airline in the event of injury"