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Virgin Blue Cabin Crew EBA

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Virgin Blue Cabin Crew EBA

Old 2nd Sep 2008, 11:49
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Virgin Blue Cabin Crew EBA

Ladies and Gents it is time to join up into the FAAA and force the company to the negotiating table. Our EBA expired quite some time ago now and we have been living with an agreement that was written at least 6 years ago.
With a change of CC management the company has effectively stalled the EBA till early next year. It is time to unite as one and make sure that the FAAA can go to them with a united voice and let the company know enough is enough.
They stalled this year on the basis of waiting to see what the new bidding system is like. I personally like the system but would not accept the working conditions that the company wants to go with it.
I am also lead to believe that the V Australia common law contract allows them to operate VB flights if required. This cannot be allowed to happen. They will be able to undercut our wages by doing this. Do you want to be replaced by cheaper V Australia staff doing the same job as us?
Some of you may say that the FAAA may not help you but it is the only way forward in this situation. If the FAAA negotiates on behalf of a large enough group then they will have the power to do what the group wants. If you decide to go it alone then perhaps you to will end up on a common law contract like the poor people at V, who have accepted a flat rate of $39,000 with only overnight allowances to add to there salary. No overtime, no available days, no drafting money, no DTA, etc.
So get your membership in and start telling the FAAA what you want out of the next EBA!
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Old 2nd Sep 2008, 12:21
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It is in my opinion the FAAA have never helped me in the past. They just rolled their eyes at me and had no balls when I had a problem.
I am considering a membership with the FAAA but like in the past, I'm hesitant as they failed me last time what makes them so good now?

I am only considering membership because I do not want the EBA to turn out like the last one or you like you say, letting V Australia team become part of our domestic work route, us working longer hours and less overnights. Things like this will only bring on a cheaper workforce which in turn leads to our guests become frustrated and more complaints against cabin staff who are rude, dishonest etc due to company constraints and dissatisfaction.
Jetstar for example, cut their wages and conditions and managed to only get asian crew who were interested. These asian crew usually work for less money and conditions that we will, however even these crew have rejected the conditions and simply fly to Australia from BKK base, and never come back! Or Australian based crew who would just leave, the entitlements they had were none, so they just left. The Jetstar employee turnover is sky high! I hope that Virgin does not go down this track.

The fact that Virgin can apply to the IRC if we reject one more EBA is ridiculous but true. They can simply put out a crappy EBA, we reject it then they go to the IRC and tell them that we are holding them back as a progressing company. Then a workplace agreement can be put in place or similar. Something potentially worse than what was put out in the first place.
Virgin Blue is one of the best employers in Australia, I seriously hope they don't move to cost cutting strategies which will affect the enthuasiatic approach of current cabin crew members to become bitter and twisted.
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Old 2nd Sep 2008, 12:22
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So what do we actually want out of the next EBA?

I certainly hope the FAAA lifts its game this time around and doesnt allow such a ridiculous EBA to be put forward, although recently it's been the same old story where the union is concerned, especially regarding leave and late rosters, they simply write to us saying theyve spoke to the company about it to request that it doesnt happen again. Then sure enough, the company takes no notice what so ever, and it all happens time and time again. Lets hope we start to recieve some proper representation!
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Old 2nd Sep 2008, 12:40
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DJCCGUY

Oh yes dear we are on the same page, in fact the same sentance on that page.

What everyone wants is an EBA that is close to the one that is oh so expired. Crew are happy at the moment (compared to what they could be with a crappy new one)
The FAAA at the moment, can be the same as you and me. They do not have an authority. Yes it's the same old story!
They simply write to us, it's almost as if they have an automatic email that goes out supposedly "reassuring" us.
I'm prepared to take a Gordon Ramsey approach but I can tell you, someone has just joined us who can contribute (hopefully)
We need all the help we can get so anyone you know would be helpful.
I'm not sure about the advertised JOBWATCH. Perhaps you can approach them, I might give them a go too. Afterall, we are not getting proper representation and we deserve the conditions and wages that we are getting at the moment.

In addition:

Who would want

* Crew becoming so bitter and twisted and angry that safety standards start to slip & service standards become almost none. Company starts to notice that slides are being deployed, aircraft cleanliness is compromised which pax are not impressed with (and in turn we start to be seen more as a low cost, rather than new world airline)
* Crew becoming fatigued that the company starts to notice crew becoming agitated and angry, having car accidents or similar incidents at home where they cannot work for long periods of time due to increaased periods of fatigue. (Ie I get home and I'm so fatigued that I break my arm/leg because I am so fatigued)
* Crew illness becoming more common as available days after the new proposed 10 hour min rest at home becomes real and they are rendered sick on call because of fatigue. Who here is a robot? Yes you may be able to fulfil that duty, but give it 6 days in a row then on the 6th day, you may not answer your phone which will put u up sh*t street for not answering your phone!

Last edited by cargoattendant; 2nd Sep 2008 at 13:04.
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Old 2nd Sep 2008, 13:17
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Just give us cleaners for turnarounds!!! That way we can actually have an uninterupted rest break free of all duties - which never happens

I'd be happy with that!

I'm hanging out to see what changes we will see (if any) with the departure of our existing CC Manager...also who will be the replacement!
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Old 7th Sep 2008, 13:50
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To: All Virgin Blue Cabin Crew Members
This year, your Association has made a number of approaches to Virgin Blue to re-commence EBA negotiations.
Formal correspondence was sent to Management on 6 and 26 August. Virgin Blue has responded inviting a preliminary discussion next week for a “replacement Agreement”. At the FAAA's quarterly Divisional Executive Meeting next week, we will take that opportunity for Virgin Blue Reps and FAAA Industrial Staff, to consider the company's invitation.
We will update Members following the preliminary EBA discussion with Virgin Blue Management.
FAAA Virgin Blue Team
Moving forward at last. I hope they don't start using the downturn as an excuse to try and have conditions move backwards.
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Old 25th Sep 2008, 09:28
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EBA Update

25 September 2008 VB07-08
ATTENTION: All Virgin Blue Cabin Crew


ENTERPRISE BARGAINING NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE


Your FAAA Virgin Blue Delegates met with Virgin Blue Management yesterday, our first EBA meeting this year.
Virgin Blue Management advised that they are currently considering their position and expect to provide this to us sometime over the next 3 weeks.
Each round of negotiations has its own set of unique challenges. It is no secret that this round of negotiations will require a strong, knowledgeable, united group of Cabin Crew to preserve our current conditions and improve our salaries to keep up with cost-of-living. Trained Industrial Staff support Delegates at the table, as they represent the majority of Crew to achieve fair and reasonable outcomes, having regard to current aviation uncertainty and legislative changes.
As many Crew would know, cost-of-living wage increases have not been automatic in Australia since the late 80’s. Wage increases for most workers are no longer directed by Government, they may only be achieved through enterprise bargaining. The collective strength and united voice of Virgin Blue Cabin Crew through their Union has seen us move from ‘start-up’ salaries, increasing 18% over 3 years, in exchange for changed ways of working as the airline grew, resulting in flexibility and productivity gains for Virgin Blue.
Several FAAA Members have contacted the Association to request the following matters, in addition to those already highlighted through surveys, be considered during the EBA process:
· Job security
· Improved annual leave system including agreed protocols for directed leave
· Rest breaks to be included in scheduled duties/pairings
· Increase to part time
· International wet lease - pay, duty limitations and rest when operating these flights
· Cross-crewing on Virgin Group various aircraft and routes
The key to these negotiations is the continued strong, united voice of Virgin Blue Cabin Crew at the table and out on line. Our strength in numbers will be unmistakeable as we reaffirm consistent knowledge amongst Crew throughout this EBA process. We will communicate information to Crew via our FAAA website and EBA newsletter updates.
As we embark on this next round of negotiations, we ask Crew to support your FAAA Representatives at the table. Please circulate this Newsletter to all Cabin Crew this week.
Any questions or concerns, phone 07 32683323 or email [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>.
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Old 25th Sep 2008, 11:52
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Go for it guys, QF are in the same position at the moment with MAM and a possible QCCA-type company being made.

Hope you all get a good outcome, it's cetainly going to be an interesting 6 months for domestic flying in Australia!
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Old 26th Sep 2008, 23:59
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V aust operating V B flights

Hey,

just to provide some clarity and perspective to what is obviously a fairly emotive issue.

V Aust have responded to crews questions re " V australia may at its discretion direct you to perform duties for its realted entities, including but not limited to Virgin Blue Airlines and Pacific Blue Airlines."

Their response is that "crew who are transferring from VB will NOT remain current on the 737 or embraer. "

Now the only other way they could use V Aust crew to perform duties for VB or P Blue, would be to operate on the 777 on a VB/PB route. This of course may happen.

There is a further comment on another blog re, Cheap V Australia staff..........rude and dishonest crew..........service standards slipping etc.

I am V Australia crew and have flown in Aus for 8 years with J* and Qantas. I can assure you, we/I am not cheap, not rude and have excellent service standards.

The only thing you have right in these blogs are: to those who aren't in the FAAA....do so now.
I will be covertly speaking to as many people in my GS to join and get a collective agreement on the table asap. The new Govt legislation coming into play on Jan 2010, forces employers to bargain in good faith and must allow collective agreements. So if not now, then 1/1/10..........

Please be aware that there are changes in aviation that have been growing for nearly a decade now..........they started with the first low cost carriers Impulse Airlines and VB!!!

The gravy train has left the station..........however with strong union m'ship and people with guts.......we can ensure that a career as CC is still decently paid with decent conditions.

I wish you luck.

CAL
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Old 27th Sep 2008, 01:27
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Cal777 Said:
Their response is that "crew who are transferring from VB will NOT remain current on the 737 or embraer. "
Did they give you any explanation of why the clause was necessary in your t&c's?

Could V not lease you to DJ for an unlimited amount of time - and then DJ put you through a 737 or E-jet conversion?
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Old 27th Sep 2008, 03:28
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Leasing V aust staff

I guess they could DJ. With the rumours that are circulating atm re V australia 777 sitting in hangars with engine covers on, only 20% capacity bookings, I'd say there is a good chance they will try and utilise us anyway they can. They've already told us we'll be used for PR work until we have our training flights/check to line etc.

But to train and endorse us on 2 other aircraft? well I for one would be seeking a clause inserted in our employment contract providing an allowance for multi endorsement.

Cheers, Cal777
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Old 27th Sep 2008, 05:13
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Actually I don't see that clause as being any big deal, there is a similar clause in the Virgin Blue EBA. And I don't see a lot of domestic routes that would warrant a 777 working it anyway. Remember with fuel prices the way they are there won't be much incentive to ferry a 2/3 empty plane around with the higher number of crew required as well.

Maybe it's time to put our efforts towards finding the flexibility and fair t&cs balance we all want. No I don't want to see a reduction in pay or conditions. But I am happy to allow changes that provide a fair outcome for both company and crew. I don't believe it's necessary for anyone to take a pay cut in order for the company to benefit from increased flexibility. They also need to know that we are people and have fatigue limits which do put a cap on the sheer number of hours that can be worked in a given work period. That's just part and parcel of using human labour.
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Old 2nd Oct 2008, 11:07
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Well now with VA postponed there will be some extra expenses to be incurred by the VB Group and tighten the purse strings even further. I wonder if management will even bother to negotiate this year with CC. They certainly wouldn't need any sort of issues with the CC to turn the public away.
Only time will tell but I would be betting on no talk of the SH CC EBA till after Easter next year.
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Old 28th Oct 2008, 21:25
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For those of you in the FAAA. There is an email asking you to take a survey. It only took me 5 minutes to complete.
It looks like things are starting to fire up with the EBA.
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Old 30th Oct 2008, 00:23
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V Australia Crew

" V australia may at its discretion direct you to perform duties for its realted entities, including but not limited to Virgin Blue Airlines and Pacific Blue Airlines."

There is no way in the short term the 777 will be doing domestic routes and forget about the company giving you 737 or EMB endorsements. It's more like get ready for six months of Virgin check in. You can see V Australia uniforms now in Brisbane every day doing "PR" work which equates to standing behind check in desks looking very out of place. Poor little things.
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Old 30th Oct 2008, 10:01
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Hey Airborne Soon,

The pilots involved with V are already being told that the 777 will more than likely doing SYD-PER runs. It makes complete sense, and QANTAS does it already - it is far cheaper to overnight an aircraft in PER than SYD...

also, the company won't ask us to take a pay cut per se, they will just ask us to work much harder and much longer which in the real world, pretty much equates to the same thing!
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Old 31st Oct 2008, 03:35
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V Australia will definately be operating domestic sectors on the 777. It will still be be a full service product, slightly altered obviously for the domestic routes.
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Old 31st Oct 2008, 21:34
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Well if Syd-Per is true than at least pax on those long trips get a more comfortable aircraft. I don't necessarily see that trip as being anything to worry about in a major way for VA crew. The planes have to fly somewhere to keep them all in a job. And yeah it seems like a nice lead-in to say a Hong Kong, SE Asia flight. Personally I'd rather be flying to PER than standing around at check-in for months on end.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 13:24
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Back to the EBA. The thread has drifted a little.

There is a EBA survey through the company email. Please take the time to fill it out and let them have it in the last box.

The FAAA had this to say last Thurs 06 Nov.

FAAA Virgin Blue News
ENTERPRISE BARGAINING NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE


Members have contacted the Association with serious concerns that it would appear Virgin Blue is planning to negotiate the next EBA without the Association.
Senior Management gave a commitment to your FAAA Workplace Delegates & Industrial Staff at a preliminary EBA meeting in late September that they were finalising their position and would come back to us in a few weeks.
The Association is extremely disappointed that Virgin Blue has not honoured its commitment by informing us of its intentions and/or its current progress with proposed EBA agenda items.
Virgin Blue continues to frustrate attempts to negotiate a new EBA which we have been pressing for over the last few months. In addition, setting up another forum for negotiations can only serve to frustrate our reasonable attempts to achieve a decent collective Agreement and can only be seen as an attempt to divide crew.

IT’S TIME
It’s time to move and be seen as ONE GROUP who are entitled to have their legitimate claims processed through negotiations which should be conducted in good faith. A Union Collective Agreement offers advantages that would not necessarily be available in a non-Union Agreement; in that your collective interests are represented by a professional negotiating body and truly independent when reaching desired outcomes for and on behalf of the majority of crew.
The consistent message from our survey results so far is, above all else, cabin crew want the FAAA to protect and improve working conditions such as duty hour limitations and rest provisions.
The only way to have the strength as a group to truly pursue our reasonable and legitimate claims is with a specialist experienced cabin crew union part of the negotiations.
Crew need to be part of the FAAA as strength is measured on numbers. Let’s demonstrate 100% strength.

Send an email now to [email protected]

“I want my Association, the FAAA, to negotiate a Union Agreement to replace my existing EBA. My name is …………… and my private email address is ……….…@.........................”
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Old 24th Nov 2008, 10:42
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I heard that people were rallying to get cabin cleaners? At Q we call them cabin dressers.
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