Ba, Lcy-jfk

[747-436]

In regards to how the logistics of it will work, nothing is decided yet, as talks/negotiations have just started. If we were to operate as our MOA currently states, we could do the lgw-lcy-snn on day 1, nightstop snn and head to nyc on day 2. Currently, we can't operate long and short haul on the same day, so the MOA will have to be re-written if the decision to operate lcy-snn-nyc on the same day is made.

To class the whole lot as a long haul flight would be a way round that, some short haul sectors out of LHR are very short, for instance Bahrain - Doha. So I imagine there is nothing to stop them getting crew to operate LGW-SNN-NYC and classing it as a long haul, if they operated it as a W pattern.

[apaddyinuk]

Marlow you are correct, The new city flyer is indeed a BA subsidary as is openskies and BAconnect when it existed.

However although they are subsidarys they still seperate airlines with their own AOC. As for the MAN route, I do remember that there was some sort of loophole at the time which resulted in the connect crew operating the flight which came about as a result of some sort of reorganisation which was taking place in man at the time. I wasnt with the company then so perhaps someone here could fill us in on that one!

[Glamgirl]

FlowerDuet,

I got the info straight from management, about a month ago...

There will be only 3 crew on it, as only 32 seats (1 purser and 2 main - at the moment). There will be a crew rest seat as well.

No news yet on the snn part of the journey. What complicates issues is that we won't stop in snn on the way back. We just need a little re-write of our MOAs (and a pay increase???) and we can do the whole thing in one day. However, it would mean staying the night in lcy before check-in, as 3 sectors would seriously reduce the amount of hours we can do on the day.

The MOA talks are due to start soon (delayed as usual due to other more pressing matters apparently).

Other gossip?? There's talk about Maldives, Mauritius, Seychelles, Vegas and Phoenix as soon as we can get more aircraft. The Atlanta is going to lhr next spring (in time for summer schedule) but we're keeping the aircraft, which means anything could happen.

Exciting times!!! I love a bit of being positive!

ATB,

Gg

[Gatwickba]

Just to add my input..

The only time passengers were made aware of a difference in BA flights out of LGW was pre-AML, when Caledonian actually operated a CKT liveried DC-10 with CKT crew in the tartan uniform on some of the LGW routes, TPA, SJU etc...

Boarding passes were annotated "Operated by Caledonian"

When AML took over, the DC-10 was repainted to BA livery (G-NIUK) and crewed by Flying Colours crew in BA uniform, no mention of who operated it on the boarding pass on either the DC10 or 777 when it came in. The 777 was operated under AML AOC, even the tech log was AML not BA....

When CKT operated the flights it was as BA2166 or BA2169, but when AML took them over, they took on BA45## to distinguish them from main BA

so there we go.

[speedbird-lgw]

after reading through these posts the sames things still emerge, ba are only happy for cityflyer crews to operate BA flights when it suits them at the moment they operate 14 ba routes if im right and are more then happy for them to do that but as soon as an important route comes BA ROUTES MUST BE OPERATED BY MAINLINE CREW
now i for one dont know why the cityflyer crews would put up with this or the harsh conditions they are working under, buts its probly best with the lack of crew and the poor crew that are there ( of which i know a few ) it really would ruin the service

[HZ123]

But should they not be trained to the same level and futhermore as it is based at LCY the basic should be more not less. Have been in the industry since 1970,s and I suppose it is progress. It is a shame that it is not to be crewed by CX as it would give the staff something different and for what it is worth we are always short of crew @ LHR & LGW, with sickness still at several hundreds some days.

[Glamgirl]

The main reason LCY based crew won't operate the lcy-nyc route is because they don't have experience of the long haul operation and therefore no training in regards to the long haul product. I'm sure that with the appropriate training they will be more than capable of providing the same service that mainline does.

Also, their MOA would have to be completely re-written (at LGW we only need a little adjusment for this operation). I'm sure the LCY base hasn't got a vast amount of "extra" crew, as a fair amount of crew would have to be taken off line to do training. I'm not sure if they have the capacity for that at the moment.

In regards to safety training, they have excellent standards at LCY, the same as the rest of the company, whether mainline, subsidiary or franchise.

Gg

[speedbird-lgw]

to say they havent got the crew is an understatement
cityflyer struggle daily to crew their flights often cancelling or getting titan in to do their work

[TopBunk]

Lack of crew at LCY -- maybe; cost of nightstopping LHR/LGW crew longterm in either LCY or SNN = big; added appeal of BA cityflyer/express with NYC flights = great; cost of training onto A318 = small.

You do the maths.

[towser]

Speedbird-lgw By some of your comments you seem to have a low opinion of Cityflyer and the crew based at LCY. Any particular reason for this? We would love to operate the New York flights but its not up to us and we can probably jump up and down and make as much noise as we like but it probably won't make any difference.

[speedbird-lgw]

my opinions are not low of the crew i think they are good at their jobs..most of them we both know there are some there who are not up to scratch, i know i use to work there but left due to poor conditions,

and i know you all wanna do well but your stuck with poor management and crap resources if your new you'll get to know this

[marlowe]

Glamgirl and speedbird-lgw thanks for the patronising remarks regarding cityflyer cabin crew, nice to know all the old stereotypical attitudes are still alive and well round at LHR and LGW. Speedbird didnt take you long to get up yourself ,with your attitude it sounds like Cityflyers loss when you left wasnt much of a loss! Glam girl what makes you think that nobody at Cityflyer could do a longhaul duty, how naive are you? I would bet you that given a choice the passengers would love having a cityflyer crew onboard ,real crew who know how to interact with passengers rather than some po faced biddy who doesnt wanna be there anymore but cant do anything else. As somebody pointed out earlier crew costs will be sky high if BA have to do a combination of night stopping in LCY then SNN then JFK to make this work with LHR/LGW crew .you would be better of using Cityflyer crew and keeping it nice and simple and profitable!! and dont worry glamgirl, trust me i would be able to cope with longhaul its not as if i havent done it before .

[speedbird-lgw]

im not upmyself marlowe its simple facts t
he company is in disaray as many people know, again short of crew pursers and main crew, as usual coulndt crew flights, again today usual problems tech aircraft useless info from certain departments

its plain and simple with the way its going and the usual management this airline will end up going again as quickly as the others came and went

and i dont know who u think i am but u got the wrong person

[marlowe]

S-LGW you totally misunderstand Cityflyers role in the grand scheme of things, its a slotter gatherer for Mainline pure and simple. It doesnt matter what goes on round at LCY as long as slots are protected and gathered if and when they become available, that is the role of Cityflyer, as for who i think you are couldnt careless!

[bcnbarcelona]

Glamgirl,

May remind you that as per our current industrial agreement (MOA), crew levels such a numbers and ranks, service, trip patterns etc. must be fully negotiated with our trade unions (BASSA & AMICUS). As far I am aware negotiations didn't start yet . So please stop spreading management rumors and maybe it will be better if you pay a visit to your trade union office( if you are a member) and found from a good source where we are on this matter.

Please be patient and left our elected trade unions representatives to make a decent deal for us.

[1000 to go]

A decent deal? Good luck

BA will use the cheapest option, if LGW cant provide it, they will get LCY to do it. Anything else Im afraid is pure delusion.

It wont be a SNN nightstop
I can see a W pattern, very likely.

Before you ask, Im BA mainline, and a realist!

[HZ123]

As usual I am missing something here. Why should we be chasing about after LCY slots, as someone has already remarked we are in a shambolic state for much of the time. The T4 to T5 fianal move is a major concern and those in authority would do well to resolve that issue.

It surely makes good business sense to utilise the CX crews to operate this service and cannot be as cost effective when we utilise LGW crew. What is more important 'agreements' and protectionism.

[marlowe]

HZ123 Cityflyer are getting slots at LCY and having to sub contract other carriers to operate services on these slots as they dont have enough airframes to do so themselves , now there must be a reason for wanting these slots? I guess Mainline have a use for these slots in the future ,LCY will be the nearest airport to the olympic site so i guess that may have something to do with it also slots required for the New York route .

[HZ123]

See what you mean and indeed there may be other long / haul routes from LCY by 2012 it presents the chance of making easy monies during the games and beyond. It is a shame that Waterside seems to have too much going on and the risk is that as a whole the company will lose out all round.

However by then the operation might be operated by Openskies perhaps or sold off at a small profit.

[marlowe]

Who knows what they have planned for Cityflyer? Its roots are based in companies that have all been shafted by Mainline in the past so whats one more shafting!!!!!!