BA BASSA Message - TUPE
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Buy On Board wondered when that would show up again ,first tested by BA"s training fleet for managers ie. BA Cityflyer or BA Connect as it was then, two years ago welcome back BOB!!!!!!!!
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This is geting very emotional and is as yet based on rumours which is what this web site is all about. As a Cranebank resident I would recommend after 35 years with BA that you all try to remain calm and let those at Waterworld do what they have to and then we can all see what the options and outcome will be. Not for the first time Virginia has shown us a number of the plans that are expected. I would concur with much of what she has said and there has most certainly been an e-mail to FC with some of those plans included i.e. 757 / 767 a/c to be reduced in numbers asap.
Many of us show a complete ignorance about the industry we work in and that is not exclusive to CC. I find it hard to believe that some of us cannot see the changes that must come in the near future, they will be painful and cost us all monies that we have already spent. Some of us, even many that have only known BA as a PLC seem to think that we are immune to market forces and ignoring what is happening around you will make it go away.
As one post has already made clear our service standard is no better than anyone else on a bad day and sometimes it is even worse. Night flights for many of us are a social as allready remarked on, get the pax bedded down asap.
Sadly had many of us devoted a little more to customer service than to ou own ends we might have been able to weather the next couple of years but it is already much to late so we will have to await our fate. I fear even industrial action will only bring about more loses even sooner and might play into managements hands.
Many of us show a complete ignorance about the industry we work in and that is not exclusive to CC. I find it hard to believe that some of us cannot see the changes that must come in the near future, they will be painful and cost us all monies that we have already spent. Some of us, even many that have only known BA as a PLC seem to think that we are immune to market forces and ignoring what is happening around you will make it go away.
As one post has already made clear our service standard is no better than anyone else on a bad day and sometimes it is even worse. Night flights for many of us are a social as allready remarked on, get the pax bedded down asap.
Sadly had many of us devoted a little more to customer service than to ou own ends we might have been able to weather the next couple of years but it is already much to late so we will have to await our fate. I fear even industrial action will only bring about more loses even sooner and might play into managements hands.
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Virginia, try and get yourself a copy of the BA Cityflyer terms and conditions this will give you an insight of how BA would like to control cabin crew in the future. For the last 18 months the company have gone out of their way to avoid any union agreements, infact only yesterday they disputed the cabin crew numbers for automatic recognition as laid down by law. If you do get a copy try and remember this is the 21st century as you read it, because it would be easy to think you were reading something from the 1800s. As for buy onboard all the testing and trialling of this was done by BAconnect 2 years ago out of sight of LHR and LGW crews, Pax hated it because they did not see a drop in ticket prices to LCC levels and had to pay for refreshment as well ,the company name was soon shortened to BA CON by the passengers !!
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Marlowe-interesting. I was offered a job at BA Cityflyer but turned it down.
I don't see how buy on board would work at Mainline but who knows???
The fact is as HZ123 said, these are all rumours. My opinions are of what I see possibly happening and have heard via Galley FM. No doubt there will be a recruitment freeze (why are we still hiring at LGW?) This last batch of training courses will the last for a loooooong time. Yes as 747-436 has pointed out, BA would have to re-juggle to enable no nightstops for EF. I'm not being funny but I LOVE trips, I joined BA to see some of the world not do 4 sectors a day and tidying up the cabin. Been there done that. If BA ends up like that many of us will no longer be at BA. I have heard about cuts in allowences...of course if they sell us out to subsidiary they can do what they want pay wise
Also I am thinking of our customers. Imagining buy on board, badly trained and paid cabin crew serving, dirty cabins etc etc
We don't know what will happen. Yes it's worrying. But what does worrying achieve? What we know is the economy will pick up etc But for now things might get a bit grim! Still, all we can do it do our jobs well, expect the worse and hope for the best!
Every airline is going to be facing difficulties, United has just laid off 950 pilots! Let's just be thankful we have jobs at BA and emphathise with our not so lucky collegues. I am sad for anyone who gets made redundant in whatever sector they are in. Last night I actually got really upset reading all these rumours. Bye Bye BA?
I don't see how buy on board would work at Mainline but who knows???
The fact is as HZ123 said, these are all rumours. My opinions are of what I see possibly happening and have heard via Galley FM. No doubt there will be a recruitment freeze (why are we still hiring at LGW?) This last batch of training courses will the last for a loooooong time. Yes as 747-436 has pointed out, BA would have to re-juggle to enable no nightstops for EF. I'm not being funny but I LOVE trips, I joined BA to see some of the world not do 4 sectors a day and tidying up the cabin. Been there done that. If BA ends up like that many of us will no longer be at BA. I have heard about cuts in allowences...of course if they sell us out to subsidiary they can do what they want pay wise
Also I am thinking of our customers. Imagining buy on board, badly trained and paid cabin crew serving, dirty cabins etc etc
We don't know what will happen. Yes it's worrying. But what does worrying achieve? What we know is the economy will pick up etc But for now things might get a bit grim! Still, all we can do it do our jobs well, expect the worse and hope for the best!
Every airline is going to be facing difficulties, United has just laid off 950 pilots! Let's just be thankful we have jobs at BA and emphathise with our not so lucky collegues. I am sad for anyone who gets made redundant in whatever sector they are in. Last night I actually got really upset reading all these rumours. Bye Bye BA?
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Anything is possible in this climate Virginia and perhaps somethings might not work at mainline as it stands but ? As the pilots have found out what BA wants it usually gets!
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Virginia,
If the rumours are upsetting you, please don't read them and I mean that in a nice way. I don't like to see any of my colleagues upset and worried. Until we have the facts on the table in front of us, we don't know what we're dealing with. And I'm sorry but BASSA just love to wind everyone up into a frenzy. Don't get me wrong, the world is changing and we are going to have to change with it, like it or not, if we want an airline to work for at the end of this, but I do think between us, it's possible. It's not going to be a picnic by any means, but we need to accept that the Golden Age of aviation is long gone and unfortunately, I don't think it'll ever come back. It's time for us to look past the end of the runway and face reality. On the plus side, these things tend to go in circles and if we can survive this as an airline, we'll be stronger than ever. It's gonna take a bit of give and take on both sides though!
Keep smiling, hard though it may be at the moment!
Jsl
P.S. And before anyone comes at me saying I'm naive in the ways of BA management etc etc, no I'm not. I'm just a realist!
If the rumours are upsetting you, please don't read them and I mean that in a nice way. I don't like to see any of my colleagues upset and worried. Until we have the facts on the table in front of us, we don't know what we're dealing with. And I'm sorry but BASSA just love to wind everyone up into a frenzy. Don't get me wrong, the world is changing and we are going to have to change with it, like it or not, if we want an airline to work for at the end of this, but I do think between us, it's possible. It's not going to be a picnic by any means, but we need to accept that the Golden Age of aviation is long gone and unfortunately, I don't think it'll ever come back. It's time for us to look past the end of the runway and face reality. On the plus side, these things tend to go in circles and if we can survive this as an airline, we'll be stronger than ever. It's gonna take a bit of give and take on both sides though!
Keep smiling, hard though it may be at the moment!
Jsl
P.S. And before anyone comes at me saying I'm naive in the ways of BA management etc etc, no I'm not. I'm just a realist!
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JSL - I really don't think BASSA have wound anyone up.
BASSA did the right and responsible thing in my opinion. It caused a lot of upset and concern amongst the crew community, but not half as much had they not disclosed the information.
BASSA did the right and responsible thing in my opinion. It caused a lot of upset and concern amongst the crew community, but not half as much had they not disclosed the information.
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but we need to accept that the Golden Age of aviation is long gone and unfortunately, I don't think it'll ever come back
Don't get me wrong, I wish you a soft landing, but do not delude yourselves about the reality of how good your present terms are.
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monkeybusiness2,
I sorry but I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you there. I think the timing and the text messages were meant to deliberately maximise the effect amongst crew and I don't think they had enough cast iron facts. However, that's just my personal opinion.
I also agree with 6chimes and can't help but wonder if the leak may have been deliberate. Now what follows is purely an example to get my point across and has not been suggested by anyone in the company. Say Willie has popped up to Mr STS's office one afternoon and said "We need to get rid of the CSD rank at LHR and change it to the Cabin Manager role as its worked at LGW and it's going to save us lots of money." Well Mr STS is going to know the fury that will greet that announcement, so he suggests that, as a way round it, they leak a top secret suggestion from Hewitts to sub out all cabin crew, thereby causing panic and chaos. And who best to leak this top secret plan to but BASSA. As they know from past experience, BASSA will put it straight out there to the community. Then once everyone is suitably wound up, management can they say that they are turning down Hewitts suggestions to sub out the crew because they care about us, but that they will regretfully have to change the CSD rank to CM to get us through these difficult times. The hope would then be that most crew will heave a huge sigh of relief that their jobs are safe and the company can quietly do away with CSD role. As I've already said, this is pure speculation on my part, but who knows what goes on behind the board room doors.
Jsl
Edited to correct spelling.
I sorry but I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you there. I think the timing and the text messages were meant to deliberately maximise the effect amongst crew and I don't think they had enough cast iron facts. However, that's just my personal opinion.
I also agree with 6chimes and can't help but wonder if the leak may have been deliberate. Now what follows is purely an example to get my point across and has not been suggested by anyone in the company. Say Willie has popped up to Mr STS's office one afternoon and said "We need to get rid of the CSD rank at LHR and change it to the Cabin Manager role as its worked at LGW and it's going to save us lots of money." Well Mr STS is going to know the fury that will greet that announcement, so he suggests that, as a way round it, they leak a top secret suggestion from Hewitts to sub out all cabin crew, thereby causing panic and chaos. And who best to leak this top secret plan to but BASSA. As they know from past experience, BASSA will put it straight out there to the community. Then once everyone is suitably wound up, management can they say that they are turning down Hewitts suggestions to sub out the crew because they care about us, but that they will regretfully have to change the CSD rank to CM to get us through these difficult times. The hope would then be that most crew will heave a huge sigh of relief that their jobs are safe and the company can quietly do away with CSD role. As I've already said, this is pure speculation on my part, but who knows what goes on behind the board room doors.
Jsl
Edited to correct spelling.
Last edited by jetset lady; 28th Jun 2008 at 16:07.
JSL
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People are rightly concerned about the future but frankly too many people are treating as gospel truth what they are hearing via Galley FM at the moment. Now wether the "noise" is coming from the Unions or management is another matter and I'll let you guys argue about the whys or wherefores of that.
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. People are rightly concerned about the future but frankly too many people are treating as gospel truth what they are hearing via Galley FM at the moment. Now wether the "noise" is coming from the Unions or management is another matter and I'll let you guys argue about the whys or wherefores of that.
Last edited by wiggy; 28th Jun 2008 at 16:10.
Junior trash
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There is absolutely no point in fussing about what might happen. Frankly if oil goes to $200-250 a barrel then we may not have an employer let alone worry about our T+Cs. It really annoys me how BASSA like to keep crew scared so they can maintain their power base. One day they'll cry wolf too often.
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JSL seems like a very wise purser and I will try to take on board some of her optimism. I think it's time I turn on the television and watch some 'chewing gum for the eyes' to keep my brain occupied. 
Right, well hopefully everything will turn out ok for us all etc
Right, well hopefully everything will turn out ok for us all etc
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JSL
I wouldn't argue with you at all. That is why my post mentioned WW and EF (ie LHR LH and LHR SH CC) and not SFG (Single Fleet Gatwick). You are at the opposite end of the spectrum within BA.
I wish you well, seriously, having worked at LGW in the mid 90's in EOG myself.
I'm a LGW Psr. I haven't really got that far to fall anymore!
I wish you well, seriously, having worked at LGW in the mid 90's in EOG myself.
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These U.S. based companies that flog themselves around the world with fantastic ideas like Operation Columbus generally IMHO do a few things:
1. Charge enormous fees.
2. Wreck companies with their mad brained ideas.
3. Retreat back to the U.S.
4. Leave everyone else to pick up the pieces.
I've never known it to be different!
1. Charge enormous fees.
2. Wreck companies with their mad brained ideas.
3. Retreat back to the U.S.
4. Leave everyone else to pick up the pieces.
I've never known it to be different!
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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JSL - I really don't think BASSA have wound anyone up.
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Latest rumour from Waterside is that from April 2009, CC will have to pay for their uniforms along with shelling out for their car park permits to park at LHR/LGW though public transport (Bus, Tube and Train) incentives may be provided to compensate. Meanwhile, it was heard that CC sickness reached record levels on Day 3 of Wimbledon 
- this just plays into WW's hands. 
- this just plays into WW's hands.
Another thing to keep an eye on is crew food. Managers in BACon tried to scrap crew food and replace it with the option for crew to buy their food from the Buy on board offering. With a small increase in FDP to pay for it.
All day breakfast, greasy piza, clotted cream scone. Mega trans fats all round. It would have helped with the pension fund mortality figures, but fortunately, the BALPA reps told them where to stick it.
The two years of BACon was simply an experiment to see what they could get away with.
All day breakfast, greasy piza, clotted cream scone. Mega trans fats all round. It would have helped with the pension fund mortality figures, but fortunately, the BALPA reps told them where to stick it.
The two years of BACon was simply an experiment to see what they could get away with.
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Biddedout very true about Connect being a training ground ,and its still going on with BACityflyer now with their terms and conditions . unfortunately Bassa are not interested in this company and Amicus dont want to know either ,so BA can test some of their ideas in a controlled enviroment in a subsidary without any union interference. In fact BA could probably argue that as BACityflyer are a wholly owned subsidery and as there is no union objection they could just implement some of the ideas into mainline, i mean what are BASSA going to do threaten a strike ? We all know what path BA would take they showed that with the pilots and they are now Willies B*tches so what have they to lose ?
Last edited by marlowe; 29th Jun 2008 at 21:50.