BA BASSA Message - TUPE
Join Date: Dec 2006
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And if BA is heading down this road no airline is safe as they are bound to follow BA's lead.
I can see the career of cabin crew being reduced to a badly paid sky waitress job.
Don't Ryanair employ cabin crew through an agency? And we all know what their terms and conditions are. I joined BA as I believe the pay was good (we all need to pay bills) and the terms and conditions were good. The idea of nightstops and trips away also sounded good. I didn't want to go through the cabin with a pay for drinks trolley doing 6 flights a day there and backs without ever actually going anywhere. I would just work in an office if it came down to it.
Our passengers will suffer. On the new pay and conditions at the outsourced company (what will it be called I wonder) they will get poor candidates working for them and whatever is left of the airline will go to the dogs.
The only airline left will be Ryanair
If that even survives the current economic climate.
I can see the career of cabin crew being reduced to a badly paid sky waitress job.
Don't Ryanair employ cabin crew through an agency? And we all know what their terms and conditions are. I joined BA as I believe the pay was good (we all need to pay bills) and the terms and conditions were good. The idea of nightstops and trips away also sounded good. I didn't want to go through the cabin with a pay for drinks trolley doing 6 flights a day there and backs without ever actually going anywhere. I would just work in an office if it came down to it. Our passengers will suffer. On the new pay and conditions at the outsourced company (what will it be called I wonder) they will get poor candidates working for them and whatever is left of the airline will go to the dogs.
The only airline left will be Ryanair
If that even survives the current economic climate.
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I think one of the tenders was a company called 'CrewSupply' but that sounds a little like crucify!
Virginia - BA pax already suffer! On LH flts the crew force down the blinds as soon as possible in a bid to get pax to nod off rather than disturb the crew. It's so obvious its embarrasing to watch!
You better start looking for an office job, or perhaps work a till at Tesco's and get back to a touch of reality rather than the spoutings of Compass or Galley FM.
Virginia - BA pax already suffer! On LH flts the crew force down the blinds as soon as possible in a bid to get pax to nod off rather than disturb the crew. It's so obvious its embarrasing to watch!
You better start looking for an office job, or perhaps work a till at Tesco's and get back to a touch of reality rather than the spoutings of Compass or Galley FM.
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Actually I believe BA will be bought by EK, but they (EK) will baulk at the current Crew and Ramp Agreements. EK have many ex BA Mgmt and they know the pitfalls.
The Lo-Co's will survive, so will BA but the old agreements will have been long gone before anyone can say BA truly survived a recession.
Personally, I don't believe its jealousy, but many people see CC as overpaid and prima-donna sky waitresses (as you put it) but most are excellent at their job and do try and look after the passengers as well as they can. But look at the old 'Raid The Larder' compared to the embarrasment that is called 'Club Kitchen' - good quality snacks have been replaced by desperate offerings that CC even turn their noses up to - the reduction in costs are obvious and cannot be hidden or dressed up without passengers or the 20J's noticing.
The Lo-Co's will survive, so will BA but the old agreements will have been long gone before anyone can say BA truly survived a recession.
Personally, I don't believe its jealousy, but many people see CC as overpaid and prima-donna sky waitresses (as you put it) but most are excellent at their job and do try and look after the passengers as well as they can. But look at the old 'Raid The Larder' compared to the embarrasment that is called 'Club Kitchen' - good quality snacks have been replaced by desperate offerings that CC even turn their noses up to - the reduction in costs are obvious and cannot be hidden or dressed up without passengers or the 20J's noticing.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Ladies and Gentlemen, there is very little hard information at this stage - what we have read so far indicates that various options are being looked at with regards to lowering BA Inflight Service's cost base.
The conditions we, as airline employees, now face are apparently worse than those in the aftermath of 9/11. We really need to bear this in mind before shouting at each other ...
No decisions have been made. No proposals have been made.
I think some people here need to calm down.
The conditions we, as airline employees, now face are apparently worse than those in the aftermath of 9/11. We really need to bear this in mind before shouting at each other ...
No decisions have been made. No proposals have been made.
I think some people here need to calm down.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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BA Bashing.
The anti BA vibe here is very worrying.
Do you think folks at say, Waitrose suffer the same vitriol from Tesco staff?
We all do the same job,
a teapot is a teapot
a cart is a cart
a door is a door
a defib is a defib
a fire is a fire
an evacuation is an evacuation.....
regardless of the uniform, regardless of our terms and conditons we all do the same job so stop the bickering.
YES things are better at BA, apply and try hard at the interview if you want a piece of our pie.
Taking pleasure at others misfortune and potential loss of earnings is the lowest form of envy.
Shame.
Do you think folks at say, Waitrose suffer the same vitriol from Tesco staff?
We all do the same job,
a teapot is a teapot
a cart is a cart
a door is a door
a defib is a defib
a fire is a fire
an evacuation is an evacuation.....
regardless of the uniform, regardless of our terms and conditons we all do the same job so stop the bickering.
YES things are better at BA, apply and try hard at the interview if you want a piece of our pie.
Taking pleasure at others misfortune and potential loss of earnings is the lowest form of envy.
Shame.
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well said speedmarque, as a BA employee I would humbly like to appologise for earning a living and having a job, that is so so naughty of me, i must remember, henceforth, I will have to pay my employer for the privilage and the "glamour" of turning up for a duty, oh and whilst I am at it, I really MUST remember to get those blinds down on the flights I operate from now on - jesus, you couldn't make it up.
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I just wonder------
I wonder if anyone has ever calculated the time frame for which segment of an air carrier has the punter 'captive' for longer than Cabin Crew.
The finest marketing tools are your Cabin Crew, the punter can't get up and leave.
So which numpties don't realize this simple fact?
I rest my case.........................
The finest marketing tools are your Cabin Crew, the punter can't get up and leave.
So which numpties don't realize this simple fact?
I rest my case.........................
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Agree with much that is writ but as the localiser said the aircraft / product and service are not much better than the majority of US carriers. As also said we have lost the plot either by poor management or by the fact BA has been passed by many other airlines in services and lower costs.
Page 16 Sunday Mail
Page 16 Sunday Mail
Last edited by HZ123; 22nd Jun 2008 at 10:39.
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I am reading this thread with interest as a frequent passenger in premium cabins, taking about 100-110 flights per year, the majority in C/J and a few in Y or F.
It astonishes me that some people on this thread believe that BA offers something special in service.
Frankly, your airline is an average experience (from a customer service perspective and I certainly cast no aspersions on the safety related element.)
These days, I tend to buy tickets in this order (when there is a choice on the route)
Long Haul
Emirates (good fares, chauffeur drive, free hotac on long transfers at DXB, accomodation on board ranges from adequate to very good)
Lufthansa (very professional, good seats, good service)
Also rans (e.g. just bought a J class return to South America with Iberia as it was a better deal than BA and I don't regard the extra fare as worth it - e.g. I get pre allocated seat with IB, cannot reserve with BA until -24)
Short haul
Air Malta (my home airline, who are far more helpful and flexible than BA, also don't suffer from will/they won't they strike concerns every year)
Lufthansa (perhaps the most consistently professional airline I use)
easyJet (although my use of loco is limited, I like easy, very professional usually, friendly, good weather diversion policy)
BA ( 5 across seating in Club Europe is a discentive - I want a free seat next to me in short haul aircraft)
Of course you may accept or reject this feedback at your discretion.
It astonishes me that some people on this thread believe that BA offers something special in service.
Frankly, your airline is an average experience (from a customer service perspective and I certainly cast no aspersions on the safety related element.)
These days, I tend to buy tickets in this order (when there is a choice on the route)
Long Haul
Emirates (good fares, chauffeur drive, free hotac on long transfers at DXB, accomodation on board ranges from adequate to very good)
Lufthansa (very professional, good seats, good service)
Also rans (e.g. just bought a J class return to South America with Iberia as it was a better deal than BA and I don't regard the extra fare as worth it - e.g. I get pre allocated seat with IB, cannot reserve with BA until -24)
Short haul
Air Malta (my home airline, who are far more helpful and flexible than BA, also don't suffer from will/they won't they strike concerns every year)
Lufthansa (perhaps the most consistently professional airline I use)
easyJet (although my use of loco is limited, I like easy, very professional usually, friendly, good weather diversion policy)
BA ( 5 across seating in Club Europe is a discentive - I want a free seat next to me in short haul aircraft)
Of course you may accept or reject this feedback at your discretion.
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Final 3 Greens - Re: your comments about seating policy. If you take 100-110 flights and mainly in cabins per annum, I would think it would very easy for you to obtain Silver/Gold status (particularly as you are based in mainland Europe where the thresholds are lower than the UK) and you would be able to preselect at the time of booking. I know the seating policy isn't popular, but as a Silver cardholder it gives me a big incentive to fly BA as I have a great choice of seats when I book.
This is also available to pax with equivalent status on other Oneworld carriers, should you prefer another Oneworld programme.
This is also available to pax with equivalent status on other Oneworld carriers, should you prefer another Oneworld programme.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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I know that this question will seem naive to those of you who are more clued up in these things. but my question is...what is the point of a contract then? i have a contract to work for ba and signed on for certain terms,conditions and pay. that's what i signed and i fulfill my side of the contract. how can ba change what i have signed up for? and again sorry if this question is hopelessly naive...which sadly i suspect it might be
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galanjal - BA cannot simply transfer your contract of employment to another company with inferior Terms & Conditions. There are well-established The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations (TUPE) that prevent companies from doing that.
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1) There is no proposal currently on the table.
2) Any business which is not constantly looking at its options is negligent both to its shareholders, customers and its staff whose long term security of employment depends on the company being financially successful.
3) Any notion that BA, despite its top of the market terms and conditions, gives the best service is nonsense. It sometimes does and sometimes doesnt. In general it is un-memorable and does not give a reason for the customer to make it their preferred purchase. More are held in by the frequent flyer programme than the level of service in which area it is often out performed by the lower paid likes of Easyjet and FlyBE on domestics and short haul and by the foreign offerings of , notably, Singapore, Cathay, and Emirates and other Gulf carriers. There seems to be little relationship between BA pay and conditions and the happiness of its staff and the level of service they are prepared consistently to give.
4) This scare currently looks like a BASSA recruitment campaign.
5) The priority right now should be to enjoy life as it is, get on with the job and cheerfully provide competition beating service.
2) Any business which is not constantly looking at its options is negligent both to its shareholders, customers and its staff whose long term security of employment depends on the company being financially successful.
3) Any notion that BA, despite its top of the market terms and conditions, gives the best service is nonsense. It sometimes does and sometimes doesnt. In general it is un-memorable and does not give a reason for the customer to make it their preferred purchase. More are held in by the frequent flyer programme than the level of service in which area it is often out performed by the lower paid likes of Easyjet and FlyBE on domestics and short haul and by the foreign offerings of , notably, Singapore, Cathay, and Emirates and other Gulf carriers. There seems to be little relationship between BA pay and conditions and the happiness of its staff and the level of service they are prepared consistently to give.
4) This scare currently looks like a BASSA recruitment campaign.
5) The priority right now should be to enjoy life as it is, get on with the job and cheerfully provide competition beating service.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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God im about to join BA in Aug, I hope this is all scare tactics which we all know the likes of BASSA, Amicus and Unite all use!
I think im going to have to stop reading these gossips sights lol
I think im going to have to stop reading these gossips sights lol
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Be in no doubt that the company can TUPE any group they wish. It has already happened to a number of groups within our airline. Nobody bothered when Security, Facilities and Motor Transport were tuped.
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Indeed - as has been said, most companies do exactly this in times of crisis.
They have to explore different options ranging from minor changes to major re-organisation. It doesn't mean anything will come to pass, but they have to explore it.
It's just pure logic.
They have to explore different options ranging from minor changes to major re-organisation. It doesn't mean anything will come to pass, but they have to explore it.
It's just pure logic.
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re post #35
11000 of 14000 cabin crew are already with bassa. A significant number are with Amicus (CC89). The amalgamation of these unions under Unite will mean the vast majority of crew are unionised. I don't see this as a recruitment drive.
It's quite serious. The Bassa chairperson has cut short her holiday, left her family behind and is returning to the UK to take the lead.
It's quite serious. The Bassa chairperson has cut short her holiday, left her family behind and is returning to the UK to take the lead.