Virgin FSM's to be axed
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Virgin FSM's to be axed
I have just been told by a senior executive within Thompson of a conversation that took place between Pedro Achillea (VS Head of cabin sevices) and a number of his friends in a bar. This reliable source knew a huge amount of detail of our company/role/present situation and said that Pedro will be completing the same service "review" with the FSM's as he did with the IFBT's. Only this time we will not be offered anything other than redundancy, the plan is to get rid of the high cost of the FSM's and allow the CSS's to run the flight saving the company about £15m a year.
Our "consultation" period will start after the pay discussions have finished in April/May 09 and once the crew are tied into a long term deal. The union are unaware of this and will not be told until just prior to April/May 09 due to the high number of FSM reps in the union
The advice I was given by this good friend was to get out before Pedro wields his axe. We must act to stop this guy coming in and axing our roles as he has in other companies .
Our "consultation" period will start after the pay discussions have finished in April/May 09 and once the crew are tied into a long term deal. The union are unaware of this and will not be told until just prior to April/May 09 due to the high number of FSM reps in the union
The advice I was given by this good friend was to get out before Pedro wields his axe. We must act to stop this guy coming in and axing our roles as he has in other companies .
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Has your friend considered writing to Virgin and explaining what they have heard.
Im sure Virgin will be very interested to know their executive plans are being discussed at voice in bars by their own senior staff...
Im sure Virgin will be very interested to know their executive plans are being discussed at voice in bars by their own senior staff...
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I think with the current situation regarding the IFBT's rumours are running rife. This has to be another GFM rumour and one that I don't think we should pay any attention to.
I attended the last OBM managers meeting yesterday and was told from the horses mouth that the FSM and CSS role is being enhanced and developed to make the role become managerial and not axed as per this rumour.
There was even mention in the future of introducing performance related pay in conjucntion with achieving set targets, which gave me a huge boost. I left feeling very positive about the future and I know for one that Virgin as a company would not do this to the FSM role as it is valued.
We talked yesterday about being in a 'fit' position for the future when we are dealing with open skies and increased competition. I for one want us to be in this position to save all of us and to give us greater Airshare and pay for the future.
Having seen the damage to morale that these rumours did during pay I don't think that we should be speculating on rumours that are unture.
Lets stick together guys, happy flying
I attended the last OBM managers meeting yesterday and was told from the horses mouth that the FSM and CSS role is being enhanced and developed to make the role become managerial and not axed as per this rumour.
There was even mention in the future of introducing performance related pay in conjucntion with achieving set targets, which gave me a huge boost. I left feeling very positive about the future and I know for one that Virgin as a company would not do this to the FSM role as it is valued.
We talked yesterday about being in a 'fit' position for the future when we are dealing with open skies and increased competition. I for one want us to be in this position to save all of us and to give us greater Airshare and pay for the future.
Having seen the damage to morale that these rumours did during pay I don't think that we should be speculating on rumours that are unture.
Lets stick together guys, happy flying
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Virgin89...You are clearly a manager from this response.
Fruitbat ... This might be my first post as I dont normally involve myself with GFM as V89 suggests, but what other option did I have on hearing this from the horses mouth. Rumours in VS turn out to be true these days and this is not the first time we have heard it.
Trust me this is not a wind up, I certainly have better things to do with my time.
Fruitbat ... This might be my first post as I dont normally involve myself with GFM as V89 suggests, but what other option did I have on hearing this from the horses mouth. Rumours in VS turn out to be true these days and this is not the first time we have heard it.
Trust me this is not a wind up, I certainly have better things to do with my time.
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Teemok, if you look at my past posts regarding pay you will clearly see that I am a manager, an On Board Manager.
I guess you are saying that because I submit a balanced post (in my opinion) that I must be a manager as I am not sitting here thinking that this rumour is true.
I am sorry to have to prove you wrong regarding my rank at work, however the role of FSM is one that I've held for many years and one that I enjoy very much.
I also enjoy working for this company, otherwise, if it were as bad as many people on here say I would have left years ago.
The long and short of it (and this is my opinion only) is that as crew we spend a lot of time creating rumours that someone has heard. Rumours that 9 times out of 10 turn out not to be ture (Linda Moir and the Bently that she drives and the huge bonus that she received for getting pay through rings a bell). The truth of that rumour being that she is no longer in the company.
People will believe what they want too and I can't do anything to stop that. I will however continue to communicate as an FSM to my crews of any changes that are happening within the company and I will continue to either try to confirm or deny rumours that come up
Cheers
Virgin89
I guess you are saying that because I submit a balanced post (in my opinion) that I must be a manager as I am not sitting here thinking that this rumour is true.
I am sorry to have to prove you wrong regarding my rank at work, however the role of FSM is one that I've held for many years and one that I enjoy very much.
I also enjoy working for this company, otherwise, if it were as bad as many people on here say I would have left years ago.
The long and short of it (and this is my opinion only) is that as crew we spend a lot of time creating rumours that someone has heard. Rumours that 9 times out of 10 turn out not to be ture (Linda Moir and the Bently that she drives and the huge bonus that she received for getting pay through rings a bell). The truth of that rumour being that she is no longer in the company.
People will believe what they want too and I can't do anything to stop that. I will however continue to communicate as an FSM to my crews of any changes that are happening within the company and I will continue to either try to confirm or deny rumours that come up
Cheers
Virgin89
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I think it might be true.
I have got a friend who has just been Promoted and her course has been put on hold. she said it's because they want to get rid of the FSM role onboard and just have one CSS on each flight.
Sounds Mad too me and I hope this does not happen I do think the IFBT'S did a great job and made the Virgin Brand unique.
Let's hope it's Rumour !!!
Sounds Mad too me and I hope this does not happen I do think the IFBT'S did a great job and made the Virgin Brand unique.
Let's hope it's Rumour !!!
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Virgin 89 .. as an "on board" Manager (I guess CPM's are sometimes on-board) you are very quick to jump to the companies defence without questioning anything.
I guess we will see who is right in 12 months time - mind you if GFM is right you will be gone before us.
I guess we will see who is right in 12 months time - mind you if GFM is right you will be gone before us.
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At Air NZ, the FSM position was "enhanced" a couple years ago.
From 115k a year 'Inflight Service Directors' who simply served as FA1 on the flight and had no other responsibilities, they went to 95k a year 'Flight Service Managers', who in addition to being FA1, 'manage' a team of ten or so crew, some of whom they might not fly with for years - calling them at home on their days off or on sick leave to "check their welfare", representing the company at meetings when you go over the absence limit, "coaching" them and developing their "career plans", etc. The amount of paperwork is obscene and the attrition rate has skyrocketed.
I'm not sure if the FSM role at Virgin has any ground responsibilities, but offer this info as something the VS FSMs may be able to "look forward" to. Funnily enough, the latest rumour around the blocks is that the NZ FSMs may be taking more of a ground role, and the ISC (our version of the CSS) will "run" the flight..
From 115k a year 'Inflight Service Directors' who simply served as FA1 on the flight and had no other responsibilities, they went to 95k a year 'Flight Service Managers', who in addition to being FA1, 'manage' a team of ten or so crew, some of whom they might not fly with for years - calling them at home on their days off or on sick leave to "check their welfare", representing the company at meetings when you go over the absence limit, "coaching" them and developing their "career plans", etc. The amount of paperwork is obscene and the attrition rate has skyrocketed.
I'm not sure if the FSM role at Virgin has any ground responsibilities, but offer this info as something the VS FSMs may be able to "look forward" to. Funnily enough, the latest rumour around the blocks is that the NZ FSMs may be taking more of a ground role, and the ISC (our version of the CSS) will "run" the flight..
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The rumours I heard were that there would be one FSM and one CSS. If they are going to cut costs, surely this would be more logical.
At the end of the day, we still make profit, perhaps some say even more profit than is actually declared. There are lots of rumours about the sale of SQ's 49% share in VS. Perhaps we are slashing costs to make the airline more appealing to the likes of LH or some unknown third party.
At the end of the day, we still make profit, perhaps some say even more profit than is actually declared. There are lots of rumours about the sale of SQ's 49% share in VS. Perhaps we are slashing costs to make the airline more appealing to the likes of LH or some unknown third party.
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"I guess we will see who is right in 12 months time - mind you if GFM is right you will be gone before us"
Nice to see such great support Teemock
I too have been to the onboard managers meetings, and whilst the point of lots of changes has been pressed to us, the need for all the crew of al ranks to support them ,for the good of the airline is essential.
Nice to see such great support Teemock
I too have been to the onboard managers meetings, and whilst the point of lots of changes has been pressed to us, the need for all the crew of al ranks to support them ,for the good of the airline is essential.
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Little bit scary isnt it? I guess the long and short of it, is that it is not a crime to promise people that their jobs are safe, even if that means a post on The Verb or calling the OBM Meeting. Makes perfect business sense. I only hope that the union take heed and manage to get something in writing for the foreseable future. We've seen it happen with other airlines and thats not to mention the poor IFBTs. No doubt about it, there is definitely a management shake-up going on, and inevitably their will be some poor choices made. Just look at the J product!
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All fsm's got an email from pedro the other day confirming that these were simply just rumours! I received one. But it does make you think, i too hope the union could get something in place to protect us all.
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I think you may be onto something Pokergirl, If the company(virgin) are not intending to axe the FSM role then they will have no qualms into entering into a deal with the union. Currently at my airline our union faught and secured a "no compulsory redundancies till nov 09" (to much stamping and dummy throwing at Tui towers) but if Virgin have no intention of axing your role then it would be a simple paper excercise which would help quite a few FSM's and (near promotion) CSS's get on with their lives.
Maybe something to put towards your union reps?
Maybe something to put towards your union reps?
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Just makes me wonder, how long did Management know about the IFBTs? Afterall they all recieved April rosters, most of which were stood down from.
I cant help feeling that there is something fishy going on.
Look at it from managements point of view. Flights often go out with no FSM, just two CSSs, with one running J and working as FSM. The flight report comes back and says 'fine, no probs'. Management think "hmmmmm"
But that is not a true reflection. The thruth is, that the flight reports say little because there was no time to write them, the Captain is pissed off as technically there is no cabin-in-charge, the pax dont get the intro and walk through, ground staff get little communication because the 'stand in' is busy opening wines etc, no time to do crew feedback and onboard training. No ONE person in charge to deal with pax problems. Yes the CSSs do cope, but only by flicking through manuals, asking FD questions, ignoring other essential duties and then hoping they dont have to act up for some time!
Phew!
I cant help feeling that there is something fishy going on.
Look at it from managements point of view. Flights often go out with no FSM, just two CSSs, with one running J and working as FSM. The flight report comes back and says 'fine, no probs'. Management think "hmmmmm"
But that is not a true reflection. The thruth is, that the flight reports say little because there was no time to write them, the Captain is pissed off as technically there is no cabin-in-charge, the pax dont get the intro and walk through, ground staff get little communication because the 'stand in' is busy opening wines etc, no time to do crew feedback and onboard training. No ONE person in charge to deal with pax problems. Yes the CSSs do cope, but only by flicking through manuals, asking FD questions, ignoring other essential duties and then hoping they dont have to act up for some time!
Phew!
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Veering slightly off thread a bit, I would love to know who actually chooses the management we employ! Just seen that Jenny Crinnion/Hope has resigned-couldn't see that coming!!!!! Basically she took the job, got up the duff straight away and now her maternity is coming to an end, has resigned. Who knows how much Virgin has been paying for her, whilst she has actually (as far as I can see, feel free to correct me!!) done bugger all at Virgin. The only evidence I can see that she has actually "worked" at Virgin, is that she has subtlely given jobs to all her old cronies from Britannia (hiya Pedro!). Between her, Linda Moir (who was a reject from BA), Matt Lee and Lyall (who were responsible for Ansett's demise!),not to mention the saga of the amenity kits, the removal of the IFBT and all the other cost cutting devices, I think someone from a rival airline has cunningly infiltrated Virgin and is systematicallt destroying it from inside!!!!
Keep the FSM's, lose the idiots who are responsible for these decisions!!!
Keep the FSM's, lose the idiots who are responsible for these decisions!!!
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I'm actually looking at other airlines now as we speak, unless we get something in writing confirming that if there are job losses, it will be last in that goes.
I'm not prepared to give my all and commit to a company that will probably shaft me, unless I have this.
Do you think all of this is due to the proposed strike? Very unfair if it is because we actually made our targets and will be getting airshare.
Any pilots out there have an opinion? I always like to listen to our FD as they tend to be the voice of reason these days. I believe 100% what they say and diddley squat what management say!
Heartbreaking watching what has happened to this once stylish, brand leading airline, totally heartbreaking
I'm not prepared to give my all and commit to a company that will probably shaft me, unless I have this.
Do you think all of this is due to the proposed strike? Very unfair if it is because we actually made our targets and will be getting airshare.
Any pilots out there have an opinion? I always like to listen to our FD as they tend to be the voice of reason these days. I believe 100% what they say and diddley squat what management say!
Heartbreaking watching what has happened to this once stylish, brand leading airline, totally heartbreaking
Last edited by sign-it-to-your-room; 29th Apr 2008 at 15:32.
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Please excuse this input from an interloper, but in order to understand the problem could you please explain FSM and CSS?
Is the FSM the Flight Service Manager, senior cabin crew on board akin to BA's Cabin Service Director - CSD. And is the CSS the Cabin Service Supervisor, in charge of a particular cabin akin to BA's Purser.
Thanks
Is the FSM the Flight Service Manager, senior cabin crew on board akin to BA's Cabin Service Director - CSD. And is the CSS the Cabin Service Supervisor, in charge of a particular cabin akin to BA's Purser.
Thanks