Pax seats at exits
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I worked in the Gulf for a rather dodgy company that thinks it is better than BA. The cabin crew who could speak english didn't care less if their was bags/books etc at the L3 door on A A300 and did not seam to get it that if anything happened that the items would end up in their faces. Also the passengers well what can you say either they are stupid or just want to P... the crew off. I would rather see handbaggage put to a minimum that is allowed on board instead you now get companies now uping the limit on what they can take on board. At the end of the day handbaggage is a major hassle and will always be, for the passengers who say stupid things like 'I was never asked this before on any other flight' I say to you go get a life or fly with someone who does not care about your safety.
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Yes Gulf Crew...I had the same problem with a similar company in the Gulf...
Cabin Crew would often come to me and say"pax at the exit won't move their bags"...
Well,on one occasion the skipper just sat at the end of the runway and announced the reason why we were waiting and as if transformed by magic,the said bag suddenly appeared in the overhead bin....
Even in F/C A320:full and each pax had 3/3 bags and carry ons...so much so I had to stow their bags in economy...were they happy?
Don't think so!
Too much handbaggage allowance should be curbed before it is too late!
Cabin Crew would often come to me and say"pax at the exit won't move their bags"...
Well,on one occasion the skipper just sat at the end of the runway and announced the reason why we were waiting and as if transformed by magic,the said bag suddenly appeared in the overhead bin....
Even in F/C A320:full and each pax had 3/3 bags and carry ons...so much so I had to stow their bags in economy...were they happy?
Don't think so!
Too much handbaggage allowance should be curbed before it is too late!
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I am constantly amazed, as SLF myself, at how much hand baggage folks bring into the cabin! I know when travelling to some destinations in Eastern parts of Europe it is recommended to have a roll-on suitcase that is acceptable for hand-baggage to avoid suitcases being pilfered (almost as a national tradition) but for the most part it surely must be unnecessary for people to bring more than one bag on board? Sure if folks still wish to buy presents or alcohol or other items in the tax-free shops, then bring your bag half empty and fill it. Vacation destinations seem to bring out the worst in people - not only have I seen people with plastic bags containing airport purchases but giant boxes of fragile vases and other items that have been bought. Surely if someone wants to ship a fragile item it can be done from the place of purchase or at check-in clerks should insist that additional items are weighed and paid for!
I think that there should be a gross weight for each passenger comprising their checked luggage, their hand baggage and themselves! If, as a large person (which I am these days) I am required to pay more or to carry less then FINE!!! When I was skinny I used to marvel at fat folks and how they occupy more space, now I am fat I find it fascinating how superior thin folks think themselves to be but...when it comes to air safety and weight/balance, surely there has to be a limit to the individual "weight" to be checked in to a cabin. Then skinny folks can buy more junk and us more Botticelliesque types (yeah, so I flatter myself) have to curtail our spending!!
Not a bad ideah huh? If there could be an international rule it would prevent the total bedlam at check in for many destinations!!!
I know for a fact now that airline seats are not designed for us larger folk, when i was skinny I was always comfortable, now comfort is what occurs when I get to sit on a flight-deck seat!! So..if the seats are designed for a "standard" then there must be a standard weight of passenger too..lets enforce it!
I think that there should be a gross weight for each passenger comprising their checked luggage, their hand baggage and themselves! If, as a large person (which I am these days) I am required to pay more or to carry less then FINE!!! When I was skinny I used to marvel at fat folks and how they occupy more space, now I am fat I find it fascinating how superior thin folks think themselves to be but...when it comes to air safety and weight/balance, surely there has to be a limit to the individual "weight" to be checked in to a cabin. Then skinny folks can buy more junk and us more Botticelliesque types (yeah, so I flatter myself) have to curtail our spending!!
Not a bad ideah huh? If there could be an international rule it would prevent the total bedlam at check in for many destinations!!!
I know for a fact now that airline seats are not designed for us larger folk, when i was skinny I was always comfortable, now comfort is what occurs when I get to sit on a flight-deck seat!! So..if the seats are designed for a "standard" then there must be a standard weight of passenger too..lets enforce it!
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
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On a similar thread regarding the cabin baggage I recently had cause to come into cntact with a gentleman and his 2 children, with out going into details for legal and confidential reasons comments on this...
Said passenger had tried to check in on a 'charter' flight with 9 bags - all but 2 larger than the usual accepted dimensions - and 2 large suitcase for 7 days holiday in Europe.
He created a scene when told this was unacceptable, and proceeded to try and reduce the 9 bags to 2. Of course said bags were now far to large to carry on so he was told he would have to check them as hold baggage - another scene.
Then the ultimate came... when asked the usual security questions he stated the cases were full of semtex and that was why they were so heavy!
Suprisingly the staff actually allowed him and said brats to fly. When I came into contact with him he was going to miss his flight anyway, for unrelated reasons. The airline weren't particularly helpful in trying to arrange another flight so he then created another scene!
He couldn't believe it when I pointed out how luck he was not to be in jail and that perhaps he should keep quiet! Unfortunately this just seemed to humilate him in front of the children, (14 and 12ish). Never did find out if they flw out the next day...
Would you have been so accomadating as this particular airline and its staff were?
Said passenger had tried to check in on a 'charter' flight with 9 bags - all but 2 larger than the usual accepted dimensions - and 2 large suitcase for 7 days holiday in Europe.
He created a scene when told this was unacceptable, and proceeded to try and reduce the 9 bags to 2. Of course said bags were now far to large to carry on so he was told he would have to check them as hold baggage - another scene.
Then the ultimate came... when asked the usual security questions he stated the cases were full of semtex and that was why they were so heavy!
Suprisingly the staff actually allowed him and said brats to fly. When I came into contact with him he was going to miss his flight anyway, for unrelated reasons. The airline weren't particularly helpful in trying to arrange another flight so he then created another scene!
He couldn't believe it when I pointed out how luck he was not to be in jail and that perhaps he should keep quiet! Unfortunately this just seemed to humilate him in front of the children, (14 and 12ish). Never did find out if they flw out the next day...
Would you have been so accomadating as this particular airline and its staff were?
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Well, for sure, the amount of luggage carried by nowadays pax is another big, BIG problem !!! And a big source of stress for the cabin crew who see pax boarding the aircraft with huuuge and heavy luggage, looking (stupidly) at you, without saying "hello" (of course) but just "put this up" showing you their geant travel pro's... (and the "please" at the end of their order is optional of course ).
Personnally I'm getting crazy when I see pax placing oversized and overweight travelpro's in the overhead lockers. It often happens that 1 passenger takes all the room of a locker when it is supposed to hold the luggage of 5 other pax...
Also, when you stand in the AFT galley during boarding and pax come to you with their luggage saying -not hello , but "there is no room anymore for my bag" and you are obliged to find yourself some space left for it, checking all the bins, fighting amongst the mess up there, lifting the 15 kg- bag (do I have to remind that the maximum is 5 kg per passenger ?? ) and fighting it to fit and ensure that the bin can still be safely closed while 100 eyes look at you and no one would stand up and help you... I could kill someone in those moments !!
More seriously, some airlines don't allow travel pro's as cabin luggage, and I still wonder why it is not the policy in my own company...
Why aren't weighing machines being put at the a/c's entry to check that luggage are not heavier than 5 kg ? In that case, no discussion possible with the pax !
Brockenspectre, I LOVE the way you describe yourself as a Botticelliesque type
it is very poetic !
).Personnally I'm getting crazy when I see pax placing oversized and overweight travelpro's in the overhead lockers. It often happens that 1 passenger takes all the room of a locker when it is supposed to hold the luggage of 5 other pax...
Also, when you stand in the AFT galley during boarding and pax come to you with their luggage saying -not hello
, but "there is no room anymore for my bag" and you are obliged to find yourself some space left for it, checking all the bins, fighting amongst the mess up there, lifting the 15 kg- bag (do I have to remind that the maximum is 5 kg per passenger ?? ) and fighting it to fit and ensure that the bin can still be safely closed while 100 eyes look at you and no one would stand up and help you... I could kill someone in those moments !! More seriously, some airlines don't allow travel pro's as cabin luggage, and I still wonder why it is not the policy in my own company...
Why aren't weighing machines being put at the a/c's entry to check that luggage are not heavier than 5 kg ? In that case, no discussion possible with the pax !
Brockenspectre, I LOVE the way you describe yourself as a Botticelliesque type
it is very poetic !
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Just had to reply with a real experience I once had on a major UK airline. Passengers on my row (wing exit) were reading papers, and I had a paperback novel. Crew insisted that I must put the paperback into overhead locker for take off, but newspapers were ok. I should point out that no other bags etc.. were involved.
Not only do I personally believe it is nonsense to insist on putting a paperback novel into the overhead lockers, but to then argue that newspapers are ok beggars belief.
I eventually agreed, but the cabin crew member really looked like a numpty.
I suppose everyone can make a 'bad' judgement call, but that is up at the top of my list of silly things cabin crew say.
Why not solve these problems and put all passengers into the overhead lockers, and leave the luggage on the seats?
Not only do I personally believe it is nonsense to insist on putting a paperback novel into the overhead lockers, but to then argue that newspapers are ok beggars belief.
I eventually agreed, but the cabin crew member really looked like a numpty.
I suppose everyone can make a 'bad' judgement call, but that is up at the top of my list of silly things cabin crew say.
Why not solve these problems and put all passengers into the overhead lockers, and leave the luggage on the seats?
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Excellent your suggestion flypast ! Unfortunately luggage are not allowed to stay on exit seats, even when those seats are not occupied and even when strapped with the seatbelts.
And the other hand concerning your experience I don't understand why the cabin attendant didn't ask you simply to place your novel in the seatpocket in front of you ? (as for the newspaper of the pax next to you)
And the other hand concerning your experience I don't understand why the cabin attendant didn't ask you simply to place your novel in the seatpocket in front of you ? (as for the newspaper of the pax next to you)
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Gaza,
When you have your handbaggage with you at row 2, for example, it goes underneath the seat, and there is a bar to stop it from moving around, and sliding into the aisle. At row 1 and other bulkhead rows, there is nothing to stop bags from sliding round, ending up in the aisles, or any emergency exit that might be near.
Hope this helps.
When you have your handbaggage with you at row 2, for example, it goes underneath the seat, and there is a bar to stop it from moving around, and sliding into the aisle. At row 1 and other bulkhead rows, there is nothing to stop bags from sliding round, ending up in the aisles, or any emergency exit that might be near.
Hope this helps.
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Gaza, adding to what Gecko correctly stated:
Consider a handbag or bigger lying lose at your feet during take-off. The pilots decide at V-1 that braking is in order.
At that point, the forces applying themselves to your innocent piece of handluggage might turn it into a dangerous projectile being catapulted at very high speed through the cabin, easily capable of killing or seriously injuring a human being.
Hope this sheds some light on our seemingly neurotic behaviour............
Consider a handbag or bigger lying lose at your feet during take-off. The pilots decide at V-1 that braking is in order.
At that point, the forces applying themselves to your innocent piece of handluggage might turn it into a dangerous projectile being catapulted at very high speed through the cabin, easily capable of killing or seriously injuring a human being.
Hope this sheds some light on our seemingly neurotic behaviour............
Paxing All Over The World
May I move this thread on to a related aspect, that has been mentioned by some in the thread?
It is one that has been raised before: the quantity of hand luggage. Rather than go into the problem - which we all know - what is it going to take to make carriers enfore their own rules?
For what it's worth - I am of the opinion that only concerted international action from the regulatory authorites would have even a remote chance of working.
Of course, if we can prove that a mega-death crash was caused by excessive hand baggage ...
It is one that has been raised before: the quantity of hand luggage. Rather than go into the problem - which we all know - what is it going to take to make carriers enfore their own rules?
For what it's worth - I am of the opinion that only concerted international action from the regulatory authorites would have even a remote chance of working.
Of course, if we can prove that a mega-death crash was caused by excessive hand baggage ...
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I find that a brief explanation works wonders in cases such as this. As was stated earlier, many pax are 1st time or irregular flyers, they are truly not aware of the responsibilities of sitting in an exit row.
A comment such as: "After you get yourself settled, just ensure that all your luggage is in the locker, we have to keep the emergency exits clear, just in case we need to use them."
or: "I'll pop that bag up in the locker for you for the takeoff/landing."
Statements with an explanation are not requests.
People don't often argue with things that are presented as a fait accompli.
My airline has a policy of only allowing able-bodied passengers to sit in exit rows. Mistakes occasionally occur at checkin, but an explanation (and a smile) seems to work a lot better than officiousness.
A comment such as: "After you get yourself settled, just ensure that all your luggage is in the locker, we have to keep the emergency exits clear, just in case we need to use them."
or: "I'll pop that bag up in the locker for you for the takeoff/landing."
Statements with an explanation are not requests.
People don't often argue with things that are presented as a fait accompli.
My airline has a policy of only allowing able-bodied passengers to sit in exit rows. Mistakes occasionally occur at checkin, but an explanation (and a smile) seems to work a lot better than officiousness.
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Having done a lot of flying around Asia as SLF, I must say that CX cabin staff are some of the best I have experienced at keeping the emergency exits clear of baggage, and they also do it very politely too.
On a recent flight with a chinese airline (I think it was China Northeastern, but can't remember) there was a card in the seat pocket of the emergency exit seats giving various rules that you had to read, such as being able bodied, willing to assist in the vent of emergency evacuation, etc., and telling you to request a move to another seat if you couldn't comply.
As to the comment about the amount of baggage, I would concur. I have seen no end of boxes, cartons, etc, humped on board some ASian airlines.
On a recent flight with a chinese airline (I think it was China Northeastern, but can't remember) there was a card in the seat pocket of the emergency exit seats giving various rules that you had to read, such as being able bodied, willing to assist in the vent of emergency evacuation, etc., and telling you to request a move to another seat if you couldn't comply.
As to the comment about the amount of baggage, I would concur. I have seen no end of boxes, cartons, etc, humped on board some ASian airlines.
Everything is under control.
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Tarantella makes good points. The airline I fly most often, UA, also has a policy of "able-bodied" passengers at exit rows, but there does not seem to be a clear definition of that term. I recently saw an crew member go back and forth with an elderly couple in an exit row, one with a cane, for about two minutes about whether or not they could handle the tasks in the event of an emergency. They argued yes, the crew member was not sure. It was pretty uncomfortable to hear. In the end, they stayed seated. The techniques suggested by Tanrantella would have helped then, I see now in hindsight.
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I AM IN SHOCK!! I figured all airlines throughout the world had the same policy of placing only able bodied passengers in exit rows. My airline (QF)does, and we also move anybody with an obvious injury or if they even have a walking cane.
I mean, it makes sense doesn't it?? Why have a pax there that is going to get in everyones way and be a hinderance.
Could you all shed some light on this situation for me. So QF,UA will only place able bodied pax in exit rows. I hope the majority of airlines also have the same common sense. Who else please??
Everything is under control.
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Well, let me add that both passengers appeared quite vigorous to me. He was mobile on his own, he just used a cane. In my experience canes are generally used to relieve joint pain whether by arthritis or other disease. It does not mean the passenger is incapacitated. I wear eyeglasses. Should I be excluded from an exit row because of that? They could get knocked off in an emergency, but I can still see pretty well -- not perfect, but good enough to assist, in my opinion. In an emergency, I expect the older gentlemen would have come through fine. The crew member was closer to the situation than I, I did not hear the whole conversation, and I think she probably made a good call.
Frankly, what I worry about most concerning evacuations are the number of passengers I notice on takeoff and landing that have their shoes off or untied. One of the most common-sense preparations for a possible accident would be to keep your shoes on, in my view. What are the shoeless going to do with broken plastic, hot metal shards, and possibly live electrical wiring on the floor or ground? Their shoes will be long gone, 10 rows forward.
Frankly, what I worry about most concerning evacuations are the number of passengers I notice on takeoff and landing that have their shoes off or untied. One of the most common-sense preparations for a possible accident would be to keep your shoes on, in my view. What are the shoeless going to do with broken plastic, hot metal shards, and possibly live electrical wiring on the floor or ground? Their shoes will be long gone, 10 rows forward.
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Hi, i would just like to state that the airline i work for states in all instances that hand luggage should be in the hatracks, and shoes/trainers and the like should be on for take off/landing. Personnaly i tell everyone shoes on like it or lump it.
