Pax seats at exits

[Coppelia]

Safety standards in my company are very strict. And concerning pax seating at exits (LH side seats at 1st row, last row and overwing exits)on our B737, there is no discussion possible : everything must be stowed in the overhead lockers during take-off and landing. No small handbag, even no coat or scarf on the lap.

A lot of passengers are getting angry saying that "it is the first time they are being asked to place their stuff up on board of an aircraft, it is scandaleous to bore them for such futilities", etc etc.

Now my question is: are we the only airline obliging passengers sitting at the exits to comply with those safety rules ??

[RW-1]

Seemingly every airline I have been on the same rule has been given to those in the emergency exit rows. Whether or not they have a rule or not, I would think if the flight attendant asks, then to not comply is interfering with a crewmember in the performance of their duties.

On a lighter note though, if one complains, I have seen them just ask around to other pax if there is someone who would switch seats, I've taken it. And I've seen the person in question get embarrased when I've done so because I'll let them know in no small terms that everyone elses safety is mor importnat than their baubles having to be tucked under the seat ahead, etc.

On a side note, how many others worry about the aged who have to be wheelchaired into the plane to their seats? Or need assistance walking down to the aircraft into their seats?

Realistically, do they know they are basically toast if there is a mishap?
(no more so than the rest of us, but you all know what I mean ...)

[Deep Cover Gecko]

Coppelia,
I'm now working for my third airline, and in all the time I've been flying (over 5 years) I've always asked pax in emergency exit rows to put their bags etc in the overhead lockers. I'm amazed how many times I hear people say that it's the first time they've been asked to do it, and that other airlines don't make them. However, I'm convinced that half the time they know that they're supposed to, and are just trying to get away with it.

RW-1,
I flew on an American airline last year (I'm based in Europe) and was surprised to see that the crew let the passengers at the overwing exits keep all their baggage under the seat in front of them. Is that allowed on US carriers? (Incidentally, I was sat in the overwing row, and automatically put everything up straight away!)

[Manflex55]

Copp,

C'mon, U know better... the PAX are not "angry", they're just delighted by your smile & their baggage purposely placed by the exit is just a way to start a nice conversation with U !

MF

[RW-1]

Deep,

Can't say, I'm only a pax on the airline flights, my flying is rotory wing, and I don't have the luxury of F/A's for that, darn it ....

I would tend to agree it is a event to event thing. If I'm around I say something to them, as outlined above (the pax, not the F/A's)

Something else, on my last flight down back home to Laud (FLL) the girl in front of me decided she didn't have to throw her chewed gum (about 15 pieces, what a cow!) in the ashtray ... I let the attendant know, and found out not only that type of thing, but some lady was letting her kid crayon the fold down tray at the kids seat. What people I tell you!

I took matters into my own hands though on her. disgusting at it may seem, I got down in my row an snuck up behind her seat, took the pieces of gum and stuck them to the handle of her purse, and I mean good.

The guy in my window seat (I had the isle) was trying to keep a straight face, but was for it for one of her non-chalant tosses rolled one under his shoe, with predictable results.

Well, we get to FLL, and I stood up just before the gate, and when everyone else filled the isle, I turned around to hear her exclaim "Yuck! how did that get there?"

I looked at her and her (ugly) boyfriend and announced, "Well as a pilot, I can say that objects sometimes have a way of shifting in flight, didn't you listen to the F/A briefing?"

Hehehe ... you could tell the guy knew it was me, but couldn't do anything, for to say that his gal was dumping gum on the floor, etc .....

Just a nice one to let you know some of us are with you F/A's in back and know what a hard time it can be. Most of the time I'll leave my seat when at cruise and grab a folddown seat and chat with who's prepping the galley, workload permitting, I find it makes the flight much shorter.

[ 29 August 2001: Message edited by: RW-1 ]

[radeng]

It's interesting to hear this. I've flown from the US on a well known US major, where the guy beside me in the exit row was allowed to have his briefcasse between his knees and the seat on take of and landing. It was damned obvious, but the FA did nothing. Similarly about 9 years ago with a well known British airline from CDG to LHR (not to Terminal 4!) where the FAs were busy getting the newspapers handed out so they pretty well pushed the guy into his seat. Because the overhead was full (Friday night around 1730) they pushed all his luggage under the seat inf ront and behind his knees. In an exit row.

I've never flown them since - and won't.

[davidbwa]

A couple of nights ago, I had a woman sat at the overwing on a 737 refusing to put her handbag in the overhead. After a couple of minutes trying to persuade her (even her husband was trying to help me!!) I just grabbed the bag, shoved it in the overhead and told her rather brusquely (sp?) that if she had a problem with that she should address is to all the pax sitting around her that would trip up as they tried to get out of the exit as smoke filled the cabin. I got a smattering of applause from pax nearby (incl her husband) and she said sorry later on. When will pax realise that my job would be easier if I didn't have to make them do all these irritating things (seats upright, tray tables away etc). I firmly believe that pax think we make up these rules as we walk down the cabin just to **** them off. The worst is asking pax to put their shoes on for landing. Why they ask... In case you've got to run across the tarmac in a hurry - it always shuts them up!!

PS I do love pax honest - just not during a cabin secure!!!!


PS I've had the same problem on US airlines - Continental, USAirways shuttle, Delta Shuttle, always allow bags at overwings (I don't know about front rows as I never fly 1st class!!) The FAA make a big song and dance about having requirments for pax sitting at exit rows printed on safety cards, but then there's a bloody big carry on blocking it (and don't even get me started on how much carry on Americans bring onto aircraft!!!)

[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: jump&slide ]

[FoxAlphaWhiskey]

Sorry to disappoint, but I work for a STN-based company where it is permissible to have baggage stowed under the seats at the overwings - true, this has to be of the small handbag type, but I think the old adage of giving the pax an inch and they'll take a mile applies. Much better to have a black-and-white situation where everything goes up, and if they disagree, bring it on!!

I've yet to be involved in a baggage dispute with a pax yet who hasn't used the old "well we were allowed to have it there on BA/Virgin/EasyJet etc etc etc" argument. Let's face it, most will try it on in order to keep their precious bags six inches rather than 3 feet away. The key, as I have found out, is to allow them to embarrass themselves!

Cynical Steward

[PAXboy]

A couple of theories, firstly that the pax who land up in Overwing/Emerg rows DO NOT REALISE that is where they are!! The reason that they say that 'everyone else lets them stow it at low level' is because they just do not understand the implications of where they are.

For most pax, these rows are known for leg room - nothing else!

As to the comments regarding US carriers and the blocking of these rows by carry-ons, it makes me determined to make sure that I get that row next time I am Stateside!!

My second theory is my old one as to the reason that people behave so badly in a/c cabins these days.

When I started as a pax in 1965 (I was 9) my parents told my brother, sister and I, "When you are in the aircraft, you must behave as if you are in the living room of mummy and daddy's best friends." So we stayed put and enjoyed ourselves, taking turns at the window.

Oh yes, and getting our Junior Jet Club log book signed up on the flight deck of the VC-10 <pause for nostalgia>.

Nowadays, pax behave as if they are in their OWN living rooms!!!! They think that they own the space when they are, in fact, merely renting it. They behave like that at home, so they do so on the a/c.

Why? In a nutshell, when the wide-bodies came along and travel was opened up, all carriers needed to get a new range of pax into their aircraft that had not been there before. To do so, they made it 'fun'. Laker and the rest with destinations in Florida etc. all made it look as simple as hopping on a bus. So we have a generation of folks that grew up treating the flight like a bus.

We cannot un-teach them now! And, as we all know, there is not an airline in the world that wants to spell out the full range of possibilities of what can happen.

Sorry to go on, I'll jump off the hobby horse now.

[flapsforty]

Nice subject Copp!
Here I've been wondering if I was the only 1 having to face this insane discussion with pax at least once a weak.

Love to argue with these pax while knowing the pilots are anxiously waiting for me to report the cabin ready and I can hear them "revving" up the engines.

Good to know that this minor irritant is shared by so many of us!

Another goody this week when doing the flight safety talk, standing looking down the aisle and seeing my girls doing the demonstration for a sea of raised newspapers.
It had been a short night and my temper was even shorter, so in the middle of the oxygen mask spiel I said :
"Ladies and gentlemen, the Oxygen mask might save your life in an emergency; your newspaper most certainly will not"

Down went the papers, and UP went the mood of the entire cabin crew.

Not very professional, I'm the first to admit it, but what satisfaction!!

[PAXboy]

Flaps - well done. I would argue that it was very professional! You used your training and experience to draw the pax's attention to their risk at the moment most likely to be effective.

[FoxAlphaWhiskey]

Paxboy, couldn't agree more! I would just add that if most pax treat the a/c cabin as they would their own living room, I would hate to see some of them...where would they put the dirty nappies/bags of sick/banana skins in the absence of seat pockets?? Back of the sofa perhaps?

It's about time we glorified waiters/waitresses use our obviously superior levels of intelligence and common sense (on board the a/c anyway!)to ridicule and outfox the walking cargo, good on ya flapsforty! After all, to use that oft-ignored line, "Ladies and Gentlemen, the cabin crew are on board for YOUR safety..."

Cynical Steward

[radeng]

As SLF, will I be considered cynical for asking:

'If safety is so important, and cabin crew are there for safety, why is their pay so comparatively low?'

(Radeng now hides, awaiting brickbats!)

[flapsforty]

Radeng a very legitimate question which I have been asking myself at the end of each month for the last 20 years now......

On the other hand, I always feel that I'm pretty well paid for pouring coffee......

[pilotwolf]

Remember trip back from LAX a couple of years ago, with Virgin, sat in exit row on 747, next to another pilot, who incidently still in uniform, (with FO strips on under jacket admittedly) got MOST upset because the FA requested that he stow his broadsheet newspaper for take off to the point of almost rudness. FA insisted and eventually he relented under protest. I though this was an extremely poor example to set and 10/10 to the FA for her persistance and skill.

[Coppelia]

It is shameful !!!! I just can't believe this... I hope the Purser found the pilot's name back in the passengers list and wrote a report on that fact.

[Ditch]

You've also gotta love those pax who sit at an exit where a bulkhead is present. They get all the extra legroom, think they own the plane, and UP go the legs and feet (with shoes on)resting on the bulkhead, like their on a recliner or something. (Brings a new meaning to the term First Class bed methinks) Nothing irritates me more..and its always fun asking them to take them down. Asked a pax once would he do that at home, his reply was...you guessed it YES..

[pilotwolf]

Should have pointed out in original post that the pilot wasn't one of Virgind own - he flew for another company and was return to UK for R&R. But still agree with the report idea or maybe a word from the 747 captain?

[wryly smiling]

Ditch
I'm one of the people that fit those bulkheads and when I fly and see pax with their feet up on them it winds me up also,you're not alone

[PAXboy]

wryly smiling, next time - perhaps you could use thinner materials, so that the PAX's boots go right THROUGH the bulkhead. Then they have to pay for the damage!