BA IR issues
I can well understand the euphoria from BASSA members at such a large YES vote, but a YES vote based on what?
The 12 points as I understand them:
1. EG300. Not ideal, but since BA cabin crew have such an appalling sickness level what else do you suggest. You signed up for it and took the money!!
2. Down route report times.
3. Preferred Duty Free Seller. Best person for the job seems fair to me.
4. Fixed Links. Excellent idea for the 21st century.
5. Buses (for commuters). Trivia, all local buses at LHR are free for crew use.
6. Manchester Base. What? It's gone.
7. Working Times. BASSA want 900 hrs and stop working, even if it is within the max 2000 hrs duty.
8. Loss of CSD in Eurofleet. CSDs not rqd in S/H, particularly on single isle aircraft!
9. Purser/Junior Swap on 744. What other job do you know that has one big boss & 4 smaller bosses to 'manage' 10 people?
10. 1997 Payscales. Have sympathy on this one, but you cannot expect BA to suddenly offer a major increase - UNLESS you guys give up some of your archaic practices: destination payments, one-down payments, MBTs, lack of flexibility re industrial limits etc etc.
11. Pensions. BASSA lied through their teeth! A 'decent' pension decision had already been agredd.
12. LGW Bfst Allow. the need for a bfst allow in L/H is totally different to S/H. Anyway BASSA have totally ignored and deserted the LGW people over the years - so was this just a guilt thing.
I am still totally bewildered at the number of cabin crew that voted YES, but had no idea what they were voting YES for. lots of them still seemed to be under the impression that it was about hourly pay!!!
I think WW will take BASSA on, because Rod E did not seem to have the bottle for it.
The 12 points as I understand them:
1. EG300. Not ideal, but since BA cabin crew have such an appalling sickness level what else do you suggest. You signed up for it and took the money!!
2. Down route report times.
3. Preferred Duty Free Seller. Best person for the job seems fair to me.
4. Fixed Links. Excellent idea for the 21st century.
5. Buses (for commuters). Trivia, all local buses at LHR are free for crew use.
6. Manchester Base. What?
It's gone.7. Working Times. BASSA want 900 hrs and stop working, even if it is within the max 2000 hrs duty.
8. Loss of CSD in Eurofleet. CSDs not rqd in S/H, particularly on single isle aircraft!
9. Purser/Junior Swap on 744. What other job do you know that has one big boss & 4 smaller bosses to 'manage' 10 people?
10. 1997 Payscales. Have sympathy on this one, but you cannot expect BA to suddenly offer a major increase - UNLESS you guys give up some of your archaic practices: destination payments, one-down payments, MBTs, lack of flexibility re industrial limits etc etc.
11. Pensions. BASSA lied through their teeth! A 'decent' pension decision had already been agredd.
12. LGW Bfst Allow. the need for a bfst allow in L/H is totally different to S/H. Anyway BASSA have totally ignored and deserted the LGW people over the years - so was this just a guilt thing.
I am still totally bewildered at the number of cabin crew that voted YES, but had no idea what they were voting YES for. lots of them still seemed to be under the impression that it was about hourly pay!!!
I think WW will take BASSA on, because Rod E did not seem to have the bottle for it.
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It seems we have management plants on here too! Hello, the powers that be are going to pocket huge bonuses if they can pull through all the targeted cost savings from cabin crew.We just want what every employee in the 21st century deserves:
To have the chance for promotion,
To get rewarded at a level that is equal or more than we are currently getting,
To be able to report sick without persecution,
To be be provided accomodation on trips that is deemed safe,
To be able to retire at 55 with an achievable pension that means stability.
If only some of the negative comments about our hardest working employees could be directed to the fat cats that are draining our profits, then that would be refreshing.
You guys are not flying for DHL, we actually have customers who pay your wages sitting behind you. It is the cabin crew who bring them back time and time again. Not the latest management cost cutting spin.
As for , thats what its like posting on here, as the message doesnt seem to get through.
To have the chance for promotion,
To get rewarded at a level that is equal or more than we are currently getting,
To be able to report sick without persecution,
To be be provided accomodation on trips that is deemed safe,
To be able to retire at 55 with an achievable pension that means stability.
If only some of the negative comments about our hardest working employees could be directed to the fat cats that are draining our profits, then that would be refreshing.
You guys are not flying for DHL, we actually have customers who pay your wages sitting behind you. It is the cabin crew who bring them back time and time again. Not the latest management cost cutting spin.
As for
, thats what its like posting on here, as the message doesnt seem to get through.
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Awaiting results
Talks have now ended and BA have requested BASSA to put forward their final proposal re the strike issues by Friday am.
I doubt that BA will accept it. With neither side backing down it's going to be even worse than 97 with that leprechaun at the helm and we'll all be caught up in a nasty dispute that no-one really wants.
I understand frustration from loyal pax, but if you look at the past few years, it's actually never been the fault of CC for any distruption. Ground Staff wildcat strike - nothing to do with us, staff shortages couple of years ago resulting in severe disruption - nothing to do with us in fact BA actually made public statement taking blame, GG/baggage loaders illegal strike - nothing to do with us. Fog, cross debacle, lost baggage, etc etc,
I attended a 'csd in touch' forum with BA managers other day. They said they were 'not suprised' by the the 96% yes vote. That saddens me. What kind of managemet skills have they bought to the company then if such a large majority of their staff feel so unhappy, yet there are soooooo many managers there at our service? There are 3000 pilots at BA with fewer than 20 odd managers. The CC comminity have hundreds! Want to cost cut? OK put your money where your mouth is then guys. All for one and one for all!!
I don't need a CSD, PUR, PE, CCM, DOM etc etc. I'm happy with my direct managers on borad being my CSD/PUR and a DOM for any needs on the ground. My IFA's (of which there are many) relfect I'm doing a great job. I couldn't even tell you my PE's or CCM's name? I've never needed them. Never met them. If I have a problem, there's a perfectly functional DOM on duty all the time.
If they want to save some dosh, fair enough - but lead by example then. You first ...............
By the way, take it from me, (new contractor) BA are NOT as highly paid as the public think.
I doubt that BA will accept it. With neither side backing down it's going to be even worse than 97 with that leprechaun at the helm and we'll all be caught up in a nasty dispute that no-one really wants.
I understand frustration from loyal pax, but if you look at the past few years, it's actually never been the fault of CC for any distruption. Ground Staff wildcat strike - nothing to do with us, staff shortages couple of years ago resulting in severe disruption - nothing to do with us in fact BA actually made public statement taking blame, GG/baggage loaders illegal strike - nothing to do with us. Fog, cross debacle, lost baggage, etc etc,
I attended a 'csd in touch' forum with BA managers other day. They said they were 'not suprised' by the the 96% yes vote. That saddens me. What kind of managemet skills have they bought to the company then if such a large majority of their staff feel so unhappy, yet there are soooooo many managers there at our service? There are 3000 pilots at BA with fewer than 20 odd managers. The CC comminity have hundreds! Want to cost cut? OK put your money where your mouth is then guys. All for one and one for all!!
I don't need a CSD, PUR, PE, CCM, DOM etc etc. I'm happy with my direct managers on borad being my CSD/PUR and a DOM for any needs on the ground. My IFA's (of which there are many) relfect I'm doing a great job. I couldn't even tell you my PE's or CCM's name? I've never needed them. Never met them. If I have a problem, there's a perfectly functional DOM on duty all the time.
If they want to save some dosh, fair enough - but lead by example then. You first ...............
By the way, take it from me, (new contractor) BA are NOT as highly paid as the public think.
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I think sporran must be taking some of whatever WW and the rest of the waterside flumps are taking.
Point 1 was never agreed to by most areas of BA but instead forced upon staff without any fight from the unions.
If point 3 is true i can't see a problem with that because it eans a beter cut for the crew at the end of the day.
Point 8 is wasted comment from you because the 757/767 do require a CSD.
A reply to point 9 is loo at Waterside or the Compass Centre and thats where a huge similarity exists.There are more senior/junior managers,PA's,assistants to PA's in these places who really don't do alot to help the staff who keep the company going through the hard times or care about the passangers but instead are only interested in their own personal ego.
And there has been no official word from the unions to the staff throughout the company about any agreed pension deal.the members have not agreed to anything and once again it looks like BA has issued another bunch of lies just to ensure the shareprice goes up and to try and deceive everyone.I for one back the cabin crew strike 100% and would also back any action taken buy ground staff.WW is just a bully and since his arriva at BA has set out to demoralise every staff member and change every thing that the company used to stand for.A one point BA was an icon it's now just the laughing stock of the industry.
Point 1 was never agreed to by most areas of BA but instead forced upon staff without any fight from the unions.
If point 3 is true i can't see a problem with that because it eans a beter cut for the crew at the end of the day.
Point 8 is wasted comment from you because the 757/767 do require a CSD.
A reply to point 9 is loo at Waterside or the Compass Centre and thats where a huge similarity exists.There are more senior/junior managers,PA's,assistants to PA's in these places who really don't do alot to help the staff who keep the company going through the hard times or care about the passangers but instead are only interested in their own personal ego.
And there has been no official word from the unions to the staff throughout the company about any agreed pension deal.the members have not agreed to anything and once again it looks like BA has issued another bunch of lies just to ensure the shareprice goes up and to try and deceive everyone.I for one back the cabin crew strike 100% and would also back any action taken buy ground staff.WW is just a bully and since his arriva at BA has set out to demoralise every staff member and change every thing that the company used to stand for.A one point BA was an icon it's now just the laughing stock of the industry.
What kind of managemet skills have they bought to the company then if such a large majority of their staff feel so unhappy, yet there are soooooo many managers there at our service? There are 3000 pilots at BA with fewer than 20 odd managers. The CC comminity have hundreds! Want to cost cut? OK put your money where your mouth is then guys.
Good luck
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Test post/cc denial post
Err do I detect a thread drift here? (Moved from BA strike post) Good luck to you guys and girls, don't let the bast
grind you down. Main thing is, none of you have experience of working a picket line, I trust you'll be picketing?
Tell you this, the nice cops you knew at LGW will no longer be nice cops.
a) They will chat as old pals. Never EVER talk about the union plans/your thoughts about the strike. All is fed back to the Met/Gov Depts/BA in this order.
b) Never, EVER (on your own) talk to members of the press.
I wish you all well, and a speedy victory. I'll be at LGW with coffee and sandwiches to support you guys/gals. But don't expect your parking privileages, BA will 'knock them on the head' for all strikers/people who want a living wage. Train/bus will be the transport to LGW.
Dave
.
grind you down. Main thing is, none of you have experience of working a picket line, I trust you'll be picketing?Tell you this, the nice cops you knew at LGW will no longer be nice cops.
a) They will chat as old pals. Never EVER talk about the union plans/your thoughts about the strike. All is fed back to the Met/Gov Depts/BA in this order.
b) Never, EVER (on your own) talk to members of the press.
I wish you all well, and a speedy victory. I'll be at LGW with coffee and sandwiches to support you guys/gals. But don't expect your parking privileages, BA will 'knock them on the head' for all strikers/people who want a living wage. Train/bus will be the transport to LGW.
Dave
.
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They said they were 'not suprised' by the the 96% yes vote. That saddens me. What kind of managemet skills have they bought to the company then if such a large majority of their staff feel so unhappy.
BA has lost touch with the people that drive it's business. It has put cost over both staff and passengers. This strike did not happen over night, it has been brewing for a while for many different reasons. The cabin crew are just voicing what many BA staff already feel.
BA needs to re-examine their HR policies and the rethink the current relationship on the ground and in the Air if they wish to continue to be a world class leader.
The EG 300 'Sickness Policy' can only be described as 'disgraceful' . as it does infringe on many basic Human rights. A destructive policy which punish's the group instead of those responsible, whilist slowly posioning the staff against the airline.
Yes , We need to protect decent working conditions, as well as reasonable pay, which is not an "unreasonable" request.
The numerous contracts and scheduling agreement's which have been introducted into the Regional crew's and ground staff over the past 8 years, is alarming and caused much ill feeling. Mainline has so far escaped the many changes to staff working conditions by remaining united. Well done.
Hope TU can resolve this with swift talks, and move forward, as punishing the passenger is route most BA staff do not wish to see happen.
Twrecks
BA has lost touch with the people that drive it's business. It has put cost over both staff and passengers. This strike did not happen over night, it has been brewing for a while for many different reasons. The cabin crew are just voicing what many BA staff already feel.
BA needs to re-examine their HR policies and the rethink the current relationship on the ground and in the Air if they wish to continue to be a world class leader.
The EG 300 'Sickness Policy' can only be described as 'disgraceful' . as it does infringe on many basic Human rights. A destructive policy which punish's the group instead of those responsible, whilist slowly posioning the staff against the airline.
Yes , We need to protect decent working conditions, as well as reasonable pay, which is not an "unreasonable" request.
The numerous contracts and scheduling agreement's which have been introducted into the Regional crew's and ground staff over the past 8 years, is alarming and caused much ill feeling. Mainline has so far escaped the many changes to staff working conditions by remaining united. Well done.
Hope TU can resolve this with swift talks, and move forward, as punishing the passenger is route most BA staff do not wish to see happen.
Twrecks
Last edited by Twrecks; 17th Jan 2007 at 23:54.
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At last, some postive posts on here that see the true picture.
What BA want is to have the same sweeping changes to inflight services at LHR that has been imposed at single fleet gatwick. ( and yes hotelmode, we know that this was agreed, A BIG MISTAKE.)
All gatwick crew now have 2 days off after every long haul flight (instead of 3), work 2 crew down on a 777 and only 3 crew on 737. But most importantly only get £2.48 an hour duty pay.
Not only are they stuggling to complete a normal cabin service in under 4 hours they cant afford their average take home of £1200 a month after tax.
I would like to ask any pilot to imagine for 1 minute that they are cabin crew at LHR. If you could either fight for what you already have or let management take it all, which option would you choose?
We are not all as fortunate to be in such a highly qualified role as flight crew, but that doesnt mean our careers as cabin crew are not important. Someone mentioned we need to accept 'change' and 'modernisation', these are just buzzwords from america that have created giants like ryanair, where their terms are a joke.
Imagine if a whole new approach was taken, whereby all frontline staff feel valued, rewarded and proud of their management and company. This would make BA the real money machine that everyone wants.
What BA want is to have the same sweeping changes to inflight services at LHR that has been imposed at single fleet gatwick. ( and yes hotelmode, we know that this was agreed, A BIG MISTAKE.)
All gatwick crew now have 2 days off after every long haul flight (instead of 3), work 2 crew down on a 777 and only 3 crew on 737. But most importantly only get £2.48 an hour duty pay.
Not only are they stuggling to complete a normal cabin service in under 4 hours they cant afford their average take home of £1200 a month after tax.
I would like to ask any pilot to imagine for 1 minute that they are cabin crew at LHR. If you could either fight for what you already have or let management take it all, which option would you choose?
We are not all as fortunate to be in such a highly qualified role as flight crew, but that doesnt mean our careers as cabin crew are not important. Someone mentioned we need to accept 'change' and 'modernisation', these are just buzzwords from america that have created giants like ryanair, where their terms are a joke.
Imagine if a whole new approach was taken, whereby all frontline staff feel valued, rewarded and proud of their management and company. This would make BA the real money machine that everyone wants.
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just deviating off the topic slightly but i'm on annual leave at the moment up until the end of jan, (i didn't request it off, they had to allocate it to me before the end of the tax year) anyway, just wondering, if a strike was to go ahead and they needed cover for flights would they call me in off my annual leave? thanks guys
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They want it all! Woe is me................
Where were the CC when LGW/MAN/EDI/GLA etc got turned upside down??????? Double standards? Yep.
I've lost all sympathy with the crews as I have since learned LHR longhaul crews live on another planet. Can BA survive yet more terrible press? What a shameful national carrier.
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I terms of ground operations why should the crew show any proactive signs to back the changes to LGW/EDI/GLA/MAN.**** boy Walsh is only interested in T5 and wants rid of the regions and is trying to do it as sneakily as possible.If he can get away with shafting the ground staff whats to say he won't continue to treat the crew like crap and continue to make many illegal moves to further line his own pocket.
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I log on to this site occasionally and and always leave it feeling disappointed that I did.
The same old names keep on popping up: CarnageMatey and Sporran, in particular, to add their little gems of wisdom. It saddens me that there should be such divide between our cabin crew and our flight crew. I have noticed on a lot of the other threads, Flight crew from other airlines (Australia and the US) seem to be more supportive of their cabin crew colleagues and the theme that they are doing "a great job" seems a common one. I thought that perhaps this breakdown in CRM has become pervasive, but I have noticed to my relief that without exception, all the flight crew I have flown with since the start of these current IR issues, have had little in common with the thoughts of CarnageMatey or Sporran. I am glad the days of "us" and "them" is firmly behind us.
And as for the : I just don't get it. That should be our response to your opinions. You have asked the SAME old questions over and over again. And we have responded over and over again, only to be faced with the same list of questions. Do you feel that if you state your views enough times, that will cause them to miraculously become true?
I am proud that we have, in my opinion, some of the world's finest flight crew and I am equally proud that we are some of the world's finest cabin crew. So I just don't understand the beef some seem to have over other's incomes and working conditions.
It is simply not true that crew didn't even know to what they were saying "Yes". Weeks ago, some may have mistakenly believed that the hourly rate was part of the ballot, but all the various forms of communication from the union set them straight.
I am a reasonable, rational person. I have an Honours degree from a recognised university and have turned my back on an office-based career to do something I love and I know I am good at. If you flew with me, you'd know I was a credit to the company from both a crew and a passenger perspective. But if someone as level-headed (IMHO) as I am unhappy with my management, then there is something wrong. Some of these 12 issues have been on the table now for almost 10 years. A 96.1% "Yes" vote paints a rather dire picture and points to a very disaffected workforce.
I believe BALPA is a good union and, as a result, I get the impression that our pilots are, on the whole, happy with their wages and with their working conditions. So I would argue that it is perhaps difficult for them to try and walk a mile (or 7) in our shoes.
I have friends who work for Delta and Virgin as Flight attendants/cabin crew, and I would agree that we have fairly decent working conditions and pay (there are SOME things I would like to change in my favour, but hey-ho...), and I would like to hold on to them. I don't want us to become easyjet/Ryanair/Delta or even Virgin. We are one of the world's best airlines and we should maintain that image. None of us wants a strike. It is just so sad that the first time the management have actually listened to our grievances is in the face of industrial action. Let's hope that the current talk are fruitful and that we can put this all behind us.
Happy flying everyone!
The same old names keep on popping up: CarnageMatey and Sporran, in particular, to add their little gems of wisdom. It saddens me that there should be such divide between our cabin crew and our flight crew. I have noticed on a lot of the other threads, Flight crew from other airlines (Australia and the US) seem to be more supportive of their cabin crew colleagues and the theme that they are doing "a great job" seems a common one. I thought that perhaps this breakdown in CRM has become pervasive, but I have noticed to my relief that without exception, all the flight crew I have flown with since the start of these current IR issues, have had little in common with the thoughts of CarnageMatey or Sporran. I am glad the days of "us" and "them" is firmly behind us.
And as for the
: I just don't get it. That should be our response to your opinions. You have asked the SAME old questions over and over again. And we have responded over and over again, only to be faced with the same list of questions. Do you feel that if you state your views enough times, that will cause them to miraculously become true?I am proud that we have, in my opinion, some of the world's finest flight crew and I am equally proud that we are some of the world's finest cabin crew. So I just don't understand the beef some seem to have over other's incomes and working conditions.
It is simply not true that crew didn't even know to what they were saying "Yes". Weeks ago, some may have mistakenly believed that the hourly rate was part of the ballot, but all the various forms of communication from the union set them straight.
I am a reasonable, rational person. I have an Honours degree from a recognised university and have turned my back on an office-based career to do something I love and I know I am good at. If you flew with me, you'd know I was a credit to the company from both a crew and a passenger perspective. But if someone as level-headed (IMHO) as I am unhappy with my management, then there is something wrong. Some of these 12 issues have been on the table now for almost 10 years. A 96.1% "Yes" vote paints a rather dire picture and points to a very disaffected workforce.
I believe BALPA is a good union and, as a result, I get the impression that our pilots are, on the whole, happy with their wages and with their working conditions. So I would argue that it is perhaps difficult for them to try and walk a mile (or 7) in our shoes.
I have friends who work for Delta and Virgin as Flight attendants/cabin crew, and I would agree that we have fairly decent working conditions and pay (there are SOME things I would like to change in my favour, but hey-ho...), and I would like to hold on to them. I don't want us to become easyjet/Ryanair/Delta or even Virgin. We are one of the world's best airlines and we should maintain that image. None of us wants a strike. It is just so sad that the first time the management have actually listened to our grievances is in the face of industrial action. Let's hope that the current talk are fruitful and that we can put this all behind us.
Happy flying everyone!
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The same old names keep on popping up: CarnageMatey and Sporran, in particular, to add their little gems of wisdom. It saddens me that there should be such divide between our cabin crew and our flight crew........ I thought that perhaps this breakdown in CRM has become pervasive, but I have noticed to my relief that without exception, all the flight crew I have flown with since the start of these current IR issues, have had little in common with the thoughts of CarnageMatey or Sporran. I am glad the days of "us" and "them" is firmly behind us.
LGW trainers instructing trainees they must not give flight crew first class food. (This is presumably out of spite)
LGW trainers telling trainees the above is necessary as flight crew get thousands of pounds each year not to eat it. (An outright lie)
BASSA intervening to stop the B2B bus routing from T4 to the car park to the crew hotel (presumably to spite the pilots again)
BASSA reps telling hotels they must not offer room upgrades to FOs unless the CSD can also be upgraded.
BASSA reps telling their members they were prevented from attending pensions meetings (they weren't) and BALPA have stolen their members money to fund the pilots pensions (they haven't).
Thats five examples straight off the top of my jetlagged head, all occurring within the last 12 months. With that sort of provocation on a continual basis do you wonder why relations are strained?
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Perhaps it is in your OWN experience that the "bad old days never went away". I work a lot on the Upper Deck and I have almost always enjoyed a good relationship with the flight crew - of course there are a few bad apples, but aren't there everywhere? I try not to take it personally and tar the entire flight crew community with the same brush. Some people bring their own little issues to work, so one tries not to take the bait...
I must say: it is the first time I have come across the purported LGW training methods. As I have no first-hand knowledge, I can only assume that it is either part of the rumour mill or an isolated case (perhaps ANOTHER person with an axe to grind?). If those allegations were even slightly true, I think that's all pretty sad really. Of course we are told on our training courses what is and is not allowed on the flight deck and where the flight crew catering can be located, but a little rule-breaking and goodwill go a long way. I treat others as I would hope they would treat me. Apart from a few exceptions, I treat the flight crew with respect, kindness and humour and it is reciprocated.
I confess I am ignorant, too, of the accusations of BASSA's behaviour that you mention. It does seem wholly reasonable to me, with regard to the bus and the car park, that majority rule would dictate that 11/15 people should be catered for before the remaining 2.
And I imagine that it would be fair to ask that a CSD also be upgraded should the flight crew get upgrades. Crikey, BAPLA negotiated better seats for flight crew when positioning than their cabin crew colleagues get - so give us something, won't you?
And as for the BASSA/Pension meeting clash: BASSA was given a date for a meeting by the T&G. When it came to the Pensions meeting. BASSA informed the management that they could make any meeting apart from THAT day, so the management chose to hold it then, thereby forcing BASSA to choose between sorting out the ballot issue and the Pension issue.
And I am tired of hearing the same old drum being beaten: "What have you given up as cabin crew since Sept 11th?" "How have you saved the company any money". Now I know you think we are morons (and you are entitled to any opnion you choose), but you must think us REALLY soft in the head if you expect us to say, "Hell, yeah, please DO take back some of my money as I have SO much left over at the end of every month; please take some more crew off our aircraft so we can aspire to the heady heights of Aeroflot, please make me work until I am in a wheelchair and of course I'll make a bigger contribution to my pension to get less back when I am old (how much does cat food really cost anyway?). Because, like the present British goverment and taxation, I just KNOW that my cost-saving and money will be put to great use. How else can we employ yet more cabin crew "managers"? How else can we organise yet MORE useless courses to put crew on and take them away from their flying duties; and how else could we give our executives super-fat bonuses? How, indeed, are we to lure outsiders in with golden hellos and hefty pay-deals to allow them to attempt to drive this airline into the ground in their 2 or 3 year internship, before sending them off on their way with golden handshakes (but if they've been particularly naughty, let's put them on gardening leave!).
We have saved the company money in ways that are not entirely quantifiable: since Sept 11th, it has become part of our working practice to save the company money on every flight that we do. We are not ORDERED to, good sense dicates that we operate thus: I will use my own examples, but I know that it is the norm. It may take me longer and slow the service, but I only open wines as they are required; If only one passenger is drinking a certain wine on the Upper Deck, I run up and down those blasted stairs to share an opened bottle of wine with the main deck - the same goes for juices; I replace every piece of catering and round-trip it in order that salad dressings, raid the larder, etc, may be re-used either on the return sector, or on another flight; after all the passengers have disembarked, I go through all the seat backs to save the magazines, and washbags. Those stairs and baggage "slope" outside Compass are treacherous (don't laugh: YOU do it in heels!), but we grudgingly negotiate them when using the BA1 service (now that the Central Area bus service has been withdrawn) and during back-to-backs; I think you'll also find that with the airlines that pay their crew peanuts, many of them are on the fiddle: I have never had the "pleasure" of working for a charter company (yet?), but I have many colleagues who have, and who swear that it is the rule rather than the exception to cook the books on the selling of alcohol, and that they were used to seeing everything that wasn't nailed down disappear from the aircraft, something at BA, that would be unthinkable. Boy, was that a boring illustration! I think I nodded of half-way, so please excuse any spelling or grammatical mistakes (I, too, am jet-lagged).
So, let's get on with it. You concentrate on your pay and conditions and we will look after our own. We KNOW we are going to get shafted, but at least we are putting up as much of a fight as we can - if we didn't, YOU would be writing in 6 months time about how we "agreed" to the conditions and "signed up to them". The only reason we have the conditions we enjoy at LHR, is sheer numbers and a stubborn union.
I must say: it is the first time I have come across the purported LGW training methods. As I have no first-hand knowledge, I can only assume that it is either part of the rumour mill or an isolated case (perhaps ANOTHER person with an axe to grind?). If those allegations were even slightly true, I think that's all pretty sad really. Of course we are told on our training courses what is and is not allowed on the flight deck and where the flight crew catering can be located, but a little rule-breaking and goodwill go a long way. I treat others as I would hope they would treat me. Apart from a few exceptions, I treat the flight crew with respect, kindness and humour and it is reciprocated.
I confess I am ignorant, too, of the accusations of BASSA's behaviour that you mention. It does seem wholly reasonable to me, with regard to the bus and the car park, that majority rule would dictate that 11/15 people should be catered for before the remaining 2.
And I imagine that it would be fair to ask that a CSD also be upgraded should the flight crew get upgrades. Crikey, BAPLA negotiated better seats for flight crew when positioning than their cabin crew colleagues get - so give us something, won't you?
And as for the BASSA/Pension meeting clash: BASSA was given a date for a meeting by the T&G. When it came to the Pensions meeting. BASSA informed the management that they could make any meeting apart from THAT day, so the management chose to hold it then, thereby forcing BASSA to choose between sorting out the ballot issue and the Pension issue.
And I am tired of hearing the same old drum being beaten: "What have you given up as cabin crew since Sept 11th?" "How have you saved the company any money". Now I know you think we are morons (and you are entitled to any opnion you choose), but you must think us REALLY soft in the head if you expect us to say, "Hell, yeah, please DO take back some of my money as I have SO much left over at the end of every month; please take some more crew off our aircraft so we can aspire to the heady heights of Aeroflot, please make me work until I am in a wheelchair and of course I'll make a bigger contribution to my pension to get less back when I am old (how much does cat food really cost anyway?). Because, like the present British goverment and taxation, I just KNOW that my cost-saving and money will be put to great use. How else can we employ yet more cabin crew "managers"? How else can we organise yet MORE useless courses to put crew on and take them away from their flying duties; and how else could we give our executives super-fat bonuses? How, indeed, are we to lure outsiders in with golden hellos and hefty pay-deals to allow them to attempt to drive this airline into the ground in their 2 or 3 year internship, before sending them off on their way with golden handshakes (but if they've been particularly naughty, let's put them on gardening leave!).
We have saved the company money in ways that are not entirely quantifiable: since Sept 11th, it has become part of our working practice to save the company money on every flight that we do. We are not ORDERED to, good sense dicates that we operate thus: I will use my own examples, but I know that it is the norm. It may take me longer and slow the service, but I only open wines as they are required; If only one passenger is drinking a certain wine on the Upper Deck, I run up and down those blasted stairs to share an opened bottle of wine with the main deck - the same goes for juices; I replace every piece of catering and round-trip it in order that salad dressings, raid the larder, etc, may be re-used either on the return sector, or on another flight; after all the passengers have disembarked, I go through all the seat backs to save the magazines, and washbags. Those stairs and baggage "slope" outside Compass are treacherous (don't laugh: YOU do it in heels!), but we grudgingly negotiate them when using the BA1 service (now that the Central Area bus service has been withdrawn) and during back-to-backs; I think you'll also find that with the airlines that pay their crew peanuts, many of them are on the fiddle: I have never had the "pleasure" of working for a charter company (yet?), but I have many colleagues who have, and who swear that it is the rule rather than the exception to cook the books on the selling of alcohol, and that they were used to seeing everything that wasn't nailed down disappear from the aircraft, something at BA, that would be unthinkable. Boy, was that a boring illustration! I think I nodded of half-way, so please excuse any spelling or grammatical mistakes (I, too, am jet-lagged).
So, let's get on with it. You concentrate on your pay and conditions and we will look after our own. We KNOW we are going to get shafted, but at least we are putting up as much of a fight as we can - if we didn't, YOU would be writing in 6 months time about how we "agreed" to the conditions and "signed up to them". The only reason we have the conditions we enjoy at LHR, is sheer numbers and a stubborn union.