BA IR issues
Thumperdown, I am quite surprised at your attitude about a strike which doesn't affect you personally (You are BACON aren't you, or am I missing something?).
I would have thought that anyone who has just been shafted by WW's big giveaway to flybe would be glad to see the little pr!ck get his comeuppance.
I have family who are both mainline crew and they are adamant they have had enough of BA's lying and constant cost-cutting at their expense. Fair play to them... Go girls (and boys!) and see if the shareholders are still happy with the leprechaun!
I would have thought that anyone who has just been shafted by WW's big giveaway to flybe would be glad to see the little pr!ck get his comeuppance.
I have family who are both mainline crew and they are adamant they have had enough of BA's lying and constant cost-cutting at their expense. Fair play to them... Go girls (and boys!) and see if the shareholders are still happy with the leprechaun!
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Get Real
The reality Sigmond is that CC are considered a liability by management. The current woes re pensions, ask yourself, who created the problem by underestimating the monies required. Your T&C's, who agreed to them and now want to change them, and not improve them. Who does managements "dirty work" on site and then gets "blamed" for the bad decisions made by management.
Another reality is that the cult of managerialism that pervades the business world at the moment is that it is all based on theory. Most airline managers at the moment would not have a clue as to the day to day trials and tribulations of airline crew. It is all about money, taking it out of your wallet and putting it into theirs.
Another reality is that the cult of managerialism that pervades the business world at the moment is that it is all based on theory. Most airline managers at the moment would not have a clue as to the day to day trials and tribulations of airline crew. It is all about money, taking it out of your wallet and putting it into theirs.
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Reverse thruster I have read your post this evening and I applaude you. Like yourself I thank BA for many things. I love the the quality of life that flying for BA provides me with. Like you, I also recognise that we are treated well (mbts and pay) in comparison to other peeps doing the same job elsewhere. However I WILL NOT roll over and bark to Willy Wonkas beck and call. I voted YES and this evening after hours of watching the news, reading the bassa website and ess forums I am proud of myself that I did!!
Today is a proud day for us. we have proved that we are united and p*$@ed off to an airline that pecieves everything to be rosy. I am not crazy enough to think that WW is hiding behind his sofa, like some people have been stating elsewhere!!! I think when he does rear his ugly head he will put up an even uglier fight. It was ugly at Air Lingus and I am sure he will use the media to his advantage just as he did then.
Are we ready? I hope so. I am first to admit the thought of a strike terrifies me. I hope it wont come to that...... but i think somehow I may be deluded to think that it wont. Its not about loosing money as to my reason. Its the hope that we dont cause too much commercial damage why we try to fight our corner. I love my country and to me, working for any other airline other than our flag carrier just doesnt do it for me!! I love wearing our red white and blue....... I am not prepared to settle for plain old Virgin red without a damn good fight!!!!!!!!!!!
Today is a proud day for us. we have proved that we are united and p*$@ed off to an airline that pecieves everything to be rosy. I am not crazy enough to think that WW is hiding behind his sofa, like some people have been stating elsewhere!!! I think when he does rear his ugly head he will put up an even uglier fight. It was ugly at Air Lingus and I am sure he will use the media to his advantage just as he did then.
Are we ready? I hope so. I am first to admit the thought of a strike terrifies me. I hope it wont come to that...... but i think somehow I may be deluded to think that it wont. Its not about loosing money as to my reason. Its the hope that we dont cause too much commercial damage why we try to fight our corner. I love my country and to me, working for any other airline other than our flag carrier just doesnt do it for me!! I love wearing our red white and blue....... I am not prepared to settle for plain old Virgin red without a damn good fight!!!!!!!!!!!
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Rythm don't be too suprised - I would love to see willy wonka get it where it hurts. 
I also think that the BA cabin crew, on occasion, have had a somewhat condescending view of the rest of the aviation industry. (i.e. when we were described as a bunch of pipefitters and electricians). Whilst I do not wish to see anybody lose anything they have, the real world outside of BA is coming faster than some may think. BA cabin crew are not exempt from the real word or willy wonka. I hope it works out well for all and without too much inconvenience to the fare paying pax. 
I also think that the BA cabin crew, on occasion, have had a somewhat condescending view of the rest of the aviation industry. (i.e. when we were described as a bunch of pipefitters and electricians). Whilst I do not wish to see anybody lose anything they have, the real world outside of BA is coming faster than some may think. BA cabin crew are not exempt from the real word or willy wonka. I hope it works out well for all and without too much inconvenience to the fare paying pax.
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Lots of posts here about BA cabin crew having to get real, and consider what others earn etc.
But the fact is we earn a wage, and have done for many years, that we rely on to support ourselves and our children.
I would understand the need for us to change our terms and conditions should the company be in a postion similar to 9/11, when we did change our t & c significantly in order to survive.
But this attack on our t & c is at a time when the company is doing well, thanks in no small part to our efforts post 9/11, and not to those of an opportunistic management, many of whom weren't around in those difficult times.
P.S. I have no doubt that many posts on this forum are from BA managers in disguise, rumour mongering, scare tactics....dirty tricks....
But the fact is we earn a wage, and have done for many years, that we rely on to support ourselves and our children.
I would understand the need for us to change our terms and conditions should the company be in a postion similar to 9/11, when we did change our t & c significantly in order to survive.
But this attack on our t & c is at a time when the company is doing well, thanks in no small part to our efforts post 9/11, and not to those of an opportunistic management, many of whom weren't around in those difficult times.
P.S. I have no doubt that many posts on this forum are from BA managers in disguise, rumour mongering, scare tactics....dirty tricks....
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I read these pages with interest. I am not crew but fly around 80 times a year for business using mainly BA. After the announcement regarding strike action, like an earlier post, our company issued instructions this afternoon, with immediate effect to use alternative airlines to BA.
As a business our employees cannot afford to be left 'flightless' or 'stranded' by the actions of an airline or its staff. Whilst we are not the largest customer of BA by any means we are not your average holiday maker or traveller taking a couple of flights a year. I estimate as a company we use BA anything up to 750 times a year.
Whilst I wish you well in your negotiations, please also consider the impact of your customer. There are too many choices in the market these days, and whilst the service may not be as good, at the end of the day other providers will also get me from A to B.
As a business our employees cannot afford to be left 'flightless' or 'stranded' by the actions of an airline or its staff. Whilst we are not the largest customer of BA by any means we are not your average holiday maker or traveller taking a couple of flights a year. I estimate as a company we use BA anything up to 750 times a year.
Whilst I wish you well in your negotiations, please also consider the impact of your customer. There are too many choices in the market these days, and whilst the service may not be as good, at the end of the day other providers will also get me from A to B.
Gaining public support
Many of the e-mails on here are "inward looking". If BA CC are to succeed with their strikes, they must gain public support. I'm not convinced that current "sickness" levels in BA - at more than twice the UK average, and current working time arrangements (working half the time of teachers), will help BA CC gain public support. I think that CC need to pick an issue which will be supported by the public. The current tactic of complaining about everything is not a good tactic. As with other customers who have posted here - I have a choice and do not have to fly with BA. I happen to prefer to fly with BA, but I need certainty.
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gone too far
Kedhandi, the descision to vote yes was taken with the impact to our customers in mind, that in itself should tell you how far we have been pushed by our heavy handed, confrontational management. a lot of those who voted in favour of a yes vote did so in the hope that it would make those that run our company wake up and stop taking from the 'little' people while lining their own pockets.
i am sorry to read that you have been told to take your business elsewhere, after all it is the cabin crew, mostly, that are the face of British Airways and give the customer service that brings you back time and time again. we have now been pushed way too far and need to redress that balance and if that means we have to take it all the way to the wall, then we will.
i am sorry to read that you have been told to take your business elsewhere, after all it is the cabin crew, mostly, that are the face of British Airways and give the customer service that brings you back time and time again. we have now been pushed way too far and need to redress that balance and if that means we have to take it all the way to the wall, then we will.
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You have to be realistic for this to work - and statements like
simply don't help. Since 9/11 I've worked on SH and LH and for whatever reason BASSA has given no alleviations other than the (paid for) working one down on the 74. In my experience crew have still walked off the a/c at the first limiting opportunity, still made bunk rest on transatlantics a SOP and still refused to do fixed links at LHR.
I despise our managers as much as you do - but I fear for the response you will get. WW cannot afford to be seen to be soft, whatever the rightness of your position (and for gods sake no more cheering on telly please). Make sure you know the legal situation re being sacked too. You can be - and yes it will be illegal but dont expect to get much compo as a result. See the thread on General for details.
thanks in no small part to our efforts post 9/11
I despise our managers as much as you do - but I fear for the response you will get. WW cannot afford to be seen to be soft, whatever the rightness of your position (and for gods sake no more cheering on telly please). Make sure you know the legal situation re being sacked too. You can be - and yes it will be illegal but dont expect to get much compo as a result. See the thread on General for details.
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The cheering was more for the the actual numbers involved as people and management had been saying that it would be a poor return. To get a 96% yes vote and more importantly an 80% return was a FIRST in ALL transport IR ballots. We made history yesterday - that was what got everyone on their feet. It was relief that a strong message has been sent to our management ( sigmond did you get it?) so we can avert a strike and NOT inconvenience our pax.
BUT if management keep sticking to this mantra that we have to achieve a 10% operating margin ( bearing in mind we are already the most profitable legacy carrier with a margin of 8.2%) then I'm sorry we WILL strike. I'm not prepared to loose alot of my T&C's just because "its in the business plan".
BUT if management keep sticking to this mantra that we have to achieve a 10% operating margin ( bearing in mind we are already the most profitable legacy carrier with a margin of 8.2%) then I'm sorry we WILL strike. I'm not prepared to loose alot of my T&C's just because "its in the business plan".
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Many of the e-mails on here are "inward looking". If BA CC are to succeed with their strikes, they must gain public support. I'm not convinced that current "sickness" levels in BA - at more than twice the UK average, and current working time arrangements (working half the time of teachers), will help BA CC gain public support. I think that CC need to pick an issue which will be supported by the public. The current tactic of complaining about everything is not a good tactic. As with other customers who have posted here - I have a choice and do not have to fly with BA. I happen to prefer to fly with BA, but I need certainty.
The large majority of UK public is interested in the cheapest fare they can get with the maximum amount of perks thrown in....end of.
They are not really bothered with the impact this has on pay or working conditions.
A bit like a pair of Nike training shoes. Would the average shopper pay £200 for a pair of trainers made in the UK? Or £80 for the same trainers made in a sweatshop in Cambodia?
I think the 'success' of any industrial action is dependant on the unity of the workforce involved. And with a 80% return and 96.1% 'yes' vote the unity is certainly there.
The true 'success' now rests with the union and BA being able to sit down and thrash out a fair deal for both sides.
FACT: The post '97 basic pay at BA LHR is the market rate.
FACT: The starting basic salary for crew at LGW is significantly below the market average. The LGW take home is in-line (or lower) than most UK LCC's.
FACT: LHR variable pay is generally much better than most UK airlines. But this is VARIABLE. We are not guaranteed a penny of 'variable' income per month. BA are under no obligation to roster us ANY flying. If they wanted we could have 3 months of standby with no flying at all and a takehome pay of around £850.
FACT: When sick we do not have the opportunity to hide behind a desk or 'work from home' with a laptop. The prospect of going to the developing world for a trip when you are not feeling well is not great either. The pilots also whinge about EG300.
FACT: There are un-doubtably a number of BA cabin crew that take the p#ss with attendance. Time off during school holidays, sporting events etc. But EG300 seems to punish the genuinely sick. Yet if you 'play' the system strategically and are careful with dates you can abuse it.
FACT: There is room for change within in-flight service that could save BA money. But there is also a lot of changes that BA could make to improve the working lives of their crews that would not cost a lot and would bring our conditions in line with other airlines. Such as a decent staff travel system (able to have a set number of any nominees, the ability to buy Club ID90 tickets, not having to wait 10 years for our first freebie). A decent bidding system for long-haul (we can request two trips per year and cannot swap any -except back to backs-). A little 'give and take' maybe?
The media and the net chatrooms tend to include the two extremes: the extreme militant faction of cabin crew and those that seem to have a personal grudge against cabin crew. It is usually these two groups that scream the loudest and gain the most attention.
The overwhelming majority of us are just looking for a solution without the need for a strike. However a solution that does not see us being walked all over like a bunch of doormats.
Last edited by keeperboy; 16th Jan 2007 at 12:12. Reason: punctuation
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What people who are attacking us on the forum are forgetting is that we are not asking for more, we just want to keep what we've got, I understand the need to stay competitive in the market place but shouldn't management also streamline and not just be lineing their pockets.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////EVENING STANDARD 09/AUG/2006//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
£75M SHARES POT TO REWARD BA,s BOSSES
BRITISH AIRWAYS is setting aside 20 million shares currently worth £75m to reward its top brass, headed by chief executive Willie Walsh.
The share will be ring-fenced in a special savings scheme which pays out to BA executives depending on their success in running the business.
The future looks brights for the airlines' executives directors after a 57% leap in first quarter profits gave them a flying start in the quest to drive up performance.
Walsh, who received a total of £961,000 from his May 2005 start date to BA's year end in March,can earn a bonus equivalent to 100% of salary split between cash and shares.
Last year, Walsh who stepped into the chief executives role in october was awarded a £270,000 bonus on top of his £548,000 pro-rata basic pay. His pay has since increased to £600,000.
Other likely beneficiaries of the executive share option scheme-open to middle management up to board director level-include chief financial Kieth Williams.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////EVENING STANDARD 09/AUG/2006//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
£75M SHARES POT TO REWARD BA,s BOSSES
BRITISH AIRWAYS is setting aside 20 million shares currently worth £75m to reward its top brass, headed by chief executive Willie Walsh.
The share will be ring-fenced in a special savings scheme which pays out to BA executives depending on their success in running the business.
The future looks brights for the airlines' executives directors after a 57% leap in first quarter profits gave them a flying start in the quest to drive up performance.
Walsh, who received a total of £961,000 from his May 2005 start date to BA's year end in March,can earn a bonus equivalent to 100% of salary split between cash and shares.
Last year, Walsh who stepped into the chief executives role in october was awarded a £270,000 bonus on top of his £548,000 pro-rata basic pay. His pay has since increased to £600,000.
Other likely beneficiaries of the executive share option scheme-open to middle management up to board director level-include chief financial Kieth Williams.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Junior trash
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What people who are attacking us on the forum are forgetting is that we are not asking for more, we just want to keep what we've got,
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Hotel mode wake up. There have been many proposals to cut cabin crew terms. Increase the retirement age to 65. Get penalised for going sick.
Removal of pursers so reducing chances of promotion further. Shafting of crew based at gatwick.
So please dont think for 1 minute BA cabin crew are being pedantic. They are fighting for what every employee deserves.
Removal of pursers so reducing chances of promotion further. Shafting of crew based at gatwick.
So please dont think for 1 minute BA cabin crew are being pedantic. They are fighting for what every employee deserves.
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Increase the retirement age to 65
Get penalised for going sick
Removal of pursers so reducing chances of promotion further
Shafting of crew based at gatwick.
Every employee deserves to maintain their current T+C as an absolute minimum. Again show me where BA are trying to reduce your current T+C's? I personally hope the new contract crew get some more money especially the Gatwick crew who have the worst T+C mostly cos BASSA dont care if its not LHR.
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BASSA want to increase the new contract pay so that it transitions onto the old contract payscales. That, by any definition, is asking for more.
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Once again we seem to be hell bent on not supporting cabin crew at a time when they are being targeted left right and centre for ridiculous cost cutting demands.
We could debate on here for hours about the finer details of eroding terms, but still there are the same bitter pilots who regard their cabin collegues as waste of space and use the same management rhetoric that has caused the 96% vote of yes.
Its a shame because we fly on the same aircraft, the same routes, albeit doing a very different job, surely a bit more understanding and compassion wouldnt go amiss.
Maybe because the company has now agreed to inject a further £9million into pilots pension, the 'im alright jack' mentality seems to be spreading. Well im sure not too far down the road Mr walsh will move to the sharp end of the aircraft and see where savings can be made.
Happy Flying.
We could debate on here for hours about the finer details of eroding terms, but still there are the same bitter pilots who regard their cabin collegues as waste of space and use the same management rhetoric that has caused the 96% vote of yes.
Its a shame because we fly on the same aircraft, the same routes, albeit doing a very different job, surely a bit more understanding and compassion wouldnt go amiss.
Maybe because the company has now agreed to inject a further £9million into pilots pension, the 'im alright jack' mentality seems to be spreading. Well im sure not too far down the road Mr walsh will move to the sharp end of the aircraft and see where savings can be made.
Happy Flying.
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If BA were actually after your T+C then you would have my unqualified support but they're not (at the moment) Nowhere in this or the other thread has anyone given a sensible, unemotional reason why the 12 items are worth bringing the company to a standstill for. What happens when they actually go for something significant? like the hourly rate or short haul scheduling do you think the crew will have the stomach for another strike?
I presume you wont be accepting the 6m BALPA negotiated for you in the pension settlement either?
Perhaps you could be more specific on these ridiculous cost cutting issues that BA are targetting you with. Can you justify the MAN base? 5 supervisory crew out of 15?
The fact is despite your union inspired petty sniping at the flight crew there arent actually many savings to be made with us, we work maximum hours with no silly scheduling agreements at a competitive salary by worldwide standards. Fortunately rather than always saying no our union chose to engage the company producing savings for the company and lifestyle improvements for us.
As for the 96% yes vote well what did you expect? Noone knows what they voted yes to and certainly have no idea what they'll go back to work fot but who cares, we got the vote.
Honest question now had you considered strike action on anything other than the pension a possibility before BASSA's famous show of hands in Nov? None of my friends in crew did. Do you not find that odd
I presume you wont be accepting the 6m BALPA negotiated for you in the pension settlement either?
Perhaps you could be more specific on these ridiculous cost cutting issues that BA are targetting you with. Can you justify the MAN base? 5 supervisory crew out of 15?
The fact is despite your union inspired petty sniping at the flight crew there arent actually many savings to be made with us, we work maximum hours with no silly scheduling agreements at a competitive salary by worldwide standards. Fortunately rather than always saying no our union chose to engage the company producing savings for the company and lifestyle improvements for us.
As for the 96% yes vote well what did you expect? Noone knows what they voted yes to and certainly have no idea what they'll go back to work fot but who cares, we got the vote.
Honest question now had you considered strike action on anything other than the pension a possibility before BASSA's famous show of hands in Nov? None of my friends in crew did. Do you not find that odd