QANTAS - Australia
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NRT scuffle skipper appealing
Be interested to see what on basis he appeals this one.
http://www.airc.gov.au/decisionssign...l/PR974069.htm
http://www.airc.gov.au/decisionssign...l/PR974069.htm
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Leane7,
We do not have
on any domestic flights.
If its not on the big screen or on the IFE for 767-300's then they dont see it.
Randomly we have a A330-300 on a PER sector.
Or are you refering to Jetstar? Am i getting confused?
We do not have
those mini TV things that they have on domestic at the moment
If its not on the big screen or on the IFE for 767-300's then they dont see it.
Randomly we have a A330-300 on a PER sector.
Or are you refering to Jetstar? Am i getting confused?
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Yes Pegasus747,
but that is not an the appeal against dismissal, Qantas was arguing that he could not appeal at all because of the time lapse supposedly.
This is just a decision allowing him to appeal.
I have just re-read it for the 3rd time and you are right Pegasus747, it does seem that it was also a decision giving him his job back.
That would explain why his name is on the CIS screen, Cartexchange.
but that is not an the appeal against dismissal, Qantas was arguing that he could not appeal at all because of the time lapse supposedly.
This is just a decision allowing him to appeal.
I have just re-read it for the 3rd time and you are right Pegasus747, it does seem that it was also a decision giving him his job back.
That would explain why his name is on the CIS screen, Cartexchange.
Last edited by twiggs; 15th Sep 2006 at 12:56. Reason: revision
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bummer.........surely they cant give him his job back.............but then it does appear on the CIS..........there simply is no justice and I notice that the appeal was funded by AIPA
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Even with the support of AIPA,it will be interesting to see on what grounds Capt M is claiming his dismissal is harsh and unfair. Claiming that he was not outside the allowable time limit to appeal is one thing but how does he explain his actions in NRT and more importantly how does AIPA condone and explain that sort of behaviour from a capt.I wonder what the result would be if the situation had been reversed and he had been the recipient of those actions and behaviour.
On another note after flying more than a few times on J* ,it would be interesting to fly as cabin crew on J* international.The meal service will probably take about 15 minutes as most will bring their own food not to mention DVD players,reading material ,blanket and pillow.You would have a lot of time on your hands and I wonder if there will be any crew rest seats?
I also like the note on the CIS screens about the persona non grata who have taken VR and have had their access to stafftravel removed while the data base is updated.If you have dared to apply for VR (which is helping the company) then you will be treated accordingly.
On another note after flying more than a few times on J* ,it would be interesting to fly as cabin crew on J* international.The meal service will probably take about 15 minutes as most will bring their own food not to mention DVD players,reading material ,blanket and pillow.You would have a lot of time on your hands and I wonder if there will be any crew rest seats?
I also like the note on the CIS screens about the persona non grata who have taken VR and have had their access to stafftravel removed while the data base is updated.If you have dared to apply for VR (which is helping the company) then you will be treated accordingly.
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It's a shame the facts of the incident and relevant basis of appeal were not shown here as they were in another ex-colleague's rejected appeal (twice)
http://www.airc.gov.au/decisionssign...l/PR971685.htm
Maybe AF could use this captains case to try again with a 3rd appeal.
http://www.airc.gov.au/decisionssign...l/PR971685.htm
Maybe AF could use this captains case to try again with a 3rd appeal.
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Either way it will be interesting to see how their flights go.Does anyone know what their J/C....full service Y/C is going to be based on and how much of a difference there wil be in cost?
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Speedie........please facts only
In the last 18 months there has been minimal problems in slip ports with LHR crew.
1 arrest for stealing that was latter dropped.
In that time there has been 2 crew arrested for drug smuggling, 2 crew dismissed for stealing, assualts and the list goes on for minor charges out of Aus.
Please don't throw stones when you live in a very brittle glass house.
Not to mention the new BKK crew hotel are not happy with the amount of prostitues being brought back by tech and c/crew.
Lets keep the forum open for facts only style debates
1 arrest for stealing that was latter dropped.
In that time there has been 2 crew arrested for drug smuggling, 2 crew dismissed for stealing, assualts and the list goes on for minor charges out of Aus.
Please don't throw stones when you live in a very brittle glass house.
Not to mention the new BKK crew hotel are not happy with the amount of prostitues being brought back by tech and c/crew.
Lets keep the forum open for facts only style debates
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Interesting letter to the media regarding J*....
"Jetstar Airways - by **************
13 December 2005
Cairns - Sydney. I've grumbled about Jetstar before, but this time I really was left totally unimpressed. I've flown Qantas for over 25 years, so perhaps I'm spoilt, but this new Jetstar thing just doesn't sit right with me. I watched two checkin clerks treat every passenger, and then me, with utter contempt. The underlying message: "If you're so tight-ar$ed to fly Jetstar, then what do you expect?" First time in over thirty years of flying I was charged for excess baggage. "You're x-kilos overweight. That'll be thirty-five dollars. How would you like to pay for that, sir?" Stony-faced (thing) stares me out. "Will cash be okay?" I respond after a suitably uncomfortable pause. Even though I am in the first dozen checked passengers, I still get the second stampede. Flight is packed, but still doesn't stop hosties having a sit-down and chit chat. When I say it's like flying Franklins, Aussies will know what I mean (!) Had to laugh when I heard Mr Dixon proudly announce this "airline model" is ready for the international market."
I would like to see Darths reaction to reading that.As with most crew who have been flying a considerable time ,we understand it is not what you do but how you do it .Excess baggage has always been a problem but the airlines have always sucked up to frequent flyers but now with LCC you pay for what you want.
"Jetstar Airways - by **************
13 December 2005
Cairns - Sydney. I've grumbled about Jetstar before, but this time I really was left totally unimpressed. I've flown Qantas for over 25 years, so perhaps I'm spoilt, but this new Jetstar thing just doesn't sit right with me. I watched two checkin clerks treat every passenger, and then me, with utter contempt. The underlying message: "If you're so tight-ar$ed to fly Jetstar, then what do you expect?" First time in over thirty years of flying I was charged for excess baggage. "You're x-kilos overweight. That'll be thirty-five dollars. How would you like to pay for that, sir?" Stony-faced (thing) stares me out. "Will cash be okay?" I respond after a suitably uncomfortable pause. Even though I am in the first dozen checked passengers, I still get the second stampede. Flight is packed, but still doesn't stop hosties having a sit-down and chit chat. When I say it's like flying Franklins, Aussies will know what I mean (!) Had to laugh when I heard Mr Dixon proudly announce this "airline model" is ready for the international market."
I would like to see Darths reaction to reading that.As with most crew who have been flying a considerable time ,we understand it is not what you do but how you do it .Excess baggage has always been a problem but the airlines have always sucked up to frequent flyers but now with LCC you pay for what you want.
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Interesting letter to the media regarding J*....
"Jetstar Airways - by **************
13 December 2005
Cairns - Sydney. I've grumbled about Jetstar before, but this time I really was left totally unimpressed. I've flown Qantas for over 25 years, so perhaps I'm spoilt, but this new Jetstar thing just doesn't sit right with me. I watched two checkin clerks treat every passenger, and then me, with utter contempt. The underlying message: "If you're so tight-ar$ed to fly Jetstar, then what do you expect?" First time in over thirty years of flying I was charged for excess baggage. "You're x-kilos overweight. That'll be thirty-five dollars. How would you like to pay for that, sir?" Stony-faced (thing) stares me out. "Will cash be okay?" I respond after a suitably uncomfortable pause. Even though I am in the first dozen checked passengers, I still get the second stampede. Flight is packed, but still doesn't stop hosties having a sit-down and chit chat. When I say it's like flying Franklins, Aussies will know what I mean (!) Had to laugh when I heard Mr Dixon proudly announce this "airline model" is ready for the international market."
I would like to see Darths reaction to reading that.As with most crew who have been flying a considerable time ,we understand it is not what you do but how you do it .Excess baggage has always been a problem but the airlines have always sucked up to frequent flyers but now with LCC you pay for what you want.
"Jetstar Airways - by **************
13 December 2005
Cairns - Sydney. I've grumbled about Jetstar before, but this time I really was left totally unimpressed. I've flown Qantas for over 25 years, so perhaps I'm spoilt, but this new Jetstar thing just doesn't sit right with me. I watched two checkin clerks treat every passenger, and then me, with utter contempt. The underlying message: "If you're so tight-ar$ed to fly Jetstar, then what do you expect?" First time in over thirty years of flying I was charged for excess baggage. "You're x-kilos overweight. That'll be thirty-five dollars. How would you like to pay for that, sir?" Stony-faced (thing) stares me out. "Will cash be okay?" I respond after a suitably uncomfortable pause. Even though I am in the first dozen checked passengers, I still get the second stampede. Flight is packed, but still doesn't stop hosties having a sit-down and chit chat. When I say it's like flying Franklins, Aussies will know what I mean (!) Had to laugh when I heard Mr Dixon proudly announce this "airline model" is ready for the international market."
I would like to see Darths reaction to reading that.As with most crew who have been flying a considerable time ,we understand it is not what you do but how you do it .Excess baggage has always been a problem but the airlines have always sucked up to frequent flyers but now with LCC you pay for what you want.
On the route in question Qantas mainline still operates 3+ services a day. The passenger does not have to fly Jet* if they want the extra frills (preferential seating, extended baggage allowance etc) that were gripes in the above letter.
Totally agree with lowerlobe's comments in respect to difficult situations, its not what you say its how you say it. However all airlines have been cracking down on excess including QF, upon the realisation of extra cash to be earnt. Excess baggage is certainly not exclusive to LCCs. QF have cracked down heavily in the last year or so and some flights are even audited to ensure agents are charging for every kilo. Interestingly Aer Lingus in Ireland are now charging for all checked baggage regardless of weight or number of pieces...you check it in you pay. Don't want to pay? Carry it on. Creates a whole host of problems for cabin crew with oversize and overweight bags.
Furthermore, "contempt" at check in is certainly not the realm of LCCs either. Airports are now a cost centre and must turn a profit. In light of this, the check-in process is more of a production line rather than a customer service function. Jetstar do an entire flight on only 2 agents and QF and DJ are heavily focussed on pax using Kiosk and Web based check-in. Aside from the expectation the QF pax now check on a machine or on the web (just anywhere but a counter), it is expected that QF check in staff offer no extra servicing (seat changes, adding in FF numbers etc...) or assistance to the pax and have the check in transaction complete in under 40 seconds. Hard to keep smiling all day when all you say is no. Sorry you have excess baggage...sorry you've missed the 30min bag cut off...sorry I can't change your seat, see the staff at the gate...sorry the self check system is meant faster, but yes you do have to queue for 10mins to check-in your bag as there is only one agent on this morning...sorry I can't add your Qantas Club number...sorry you were meant to check in on the Kiosk, please re join the queue when you have...sorry...
Anyway ... back to the topic now ...
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Have we missed something really important?
From the Australian:
Kiwi bill will cut jobs, safety: unions
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
September 15, 2006
UNIONS are worried that legislation passed this week in federal Parliament will lead to fewer cabin crew on planes, jobs moving to New Zealand, and a fall in safety standards.
They have accused the Howard Government of hypocrisy by using the September 11 anniversary to pass "mutual recognition" legislation that allows New Zealand and Australian aircraft to fly in each other's skies.
The unions fear the new laws will prompt airlines to take advantage of cheaper labour costs by basing operations in New Zealand, a fear echoed last year by a legislative committee that recommended passing the legislation.
Mutual recognition allows airline operators to use their aircraft in Australia and New Zealand without the need to be issued with an air operators certificate in both countries.
Instead, they will be issued with a single certificate that will allow them to fly in either jurisdiction.
The Government says the move will cut red tape and deliver savings to airlines by removing regulatory hurdles. But the Australian and International Pilots Association warned that the decision would create a commercial imperative to drive safety standards down.
"The federal Government is setting off down the path of abandoning Australia's world-best safety regime and allowing the importation of lower international standards," said AIPA general manager Peter Somerville.
Flight attendants expressed concern the new regime would give Australian carriers ammunition to renew a push for new limits that allow fewer flight attendants.
Australia requires one flight attendant for every 36 passengers but New Zealand endorses an international standard of one for every 50 passengers.
The Flight Attendants Association of Australia says introducing the New Zealand ratio here would allow airlines to reduce the cabin crew in a Dash-8 commuter plane from two to one and on some Boeing 737s from four to three.
FAAA domestic division secretary Daryl Watkins said Australia had the best safety record in the world, and standards should not be reduced.
Mr Watkins said cabin-crew-to-passenger ratios were critical in emergency situations, fire-fighting, security, and dealing with disruptive passengers.
"You see all these shows on TV about enhancing security and September 11, and here they are - they've put it through parliament, potentially threatening our safety and security," he said.
But Transport Minister Warren Truss said Australia and New Zealand had robust aviation safety systems.
"While there may be some differences in detail, the safety standards in Australia and New Zealand are compliant with international requirements and achieve the same safety outcome," Mr Truss said. "Measures have been built into this bill to ensure safety is maintained at the current high levels."
The bill allows the regulator that is best placed to effectively monitor the activities of an operator, to oversee the safety of airlines operating with an Australia-New Zealand certificate.
This means an airline based in New Zealand but operating mostly in Australia would come under the supervision of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority. A CASA spokesman confirmed yesterday that this would allow it to fly here with the New Zealand flight attendant count.
So in theory, Qantas could hand over the majority of ops to Jetconnect ( on paper)
Assuming NZ doesnt have the one crew per door rule (as they have already demonstrated by Jetconnect currently operating their domestic 737's with three crew) this would allow qantas to operate with minimum cabin crew as follows:
B747-400 ER (P) - 7 Cabin Crew
B747-400 K - 8 Cabin Crew
A330-300 (I) - 6 Cabin Crew
767-300 (I) - 5 Cabin Crew
Imagine the $$$ savings, they must be rubbing their hands in anticipation.
Ah well, it was fun while it lasted
Kiwi bill will cut jobs, safety: unions
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
September 15, 2006
UNIONS are worried that legislation passed this week in federal Parliament will lead to fewer cabin crew on planes, jobs moving to New Zealand, and a fall in safety standards.
They have accused the Howard Government of hypocrisy by using the September 11 anniversary to pass "mutual recognition" legislation that allows New Zealand and Australian aircraft to fly in each other's skies.
The unions fear the new laws will prompt airlines to take advantage of cheaper labour costs by basing operations in New Zealand, a fear echoed last year by a legislative committee that recommended passing the legislation.
Mutual recognition allows airline operators to use their aircraft in Australia and New Zealand without the need to be issued with an air operators certificate in both countries.
Instead, they will be issued with a single certificate that will allow them to fly in either jurisdiction.
The Government says the move will cut red tape and deliver savings to airlines by removing regulatory hurdles. But the Australian and International Pilots Association warned that the decision would create a commercial imperative to drive safety standards down.
"The federal Government is setting off down the path of abandoning Australia's world-best safety regime and allowing the importation of lower international standards," said AIPA general manager Peter Somerville.
Flight attendants expressed concern the new regime would give Australian carriers ammunition to renew a push for new limits that allow fewer flight attendants.
Australia requires one flight attendant for every 36 passengers but New Zealand endorses an international standard of one for every 50 passengers.
The Flight Attendants Association of Australia says introducing the New Zealand ratio here would allow airlines to reduce the cabin crew in a Dash-8 commuter plane from two to one and on some Boeing 737s from four to three.
FAAA domestic division secretary Daryl Watkins said Australia had the best safety record in the world, and standards should not be reduced.
Mr Watkins said cabin-crew-to-passenger ratios were critical in emergency situations, fire-fighting, security, and dealing with disruptive passengers.
"You see all these shows on TV about enhancing security and September 11, and here they are - they've put it through parliament, potentially threatening our safety and security," he said.
But Transport Minister Warren Truss said Australia and New Zealand had robust aviation safety systems.
"While there may be some differences in detail, the safety standards in Australia and New Zealand are compliant with international requirements and achieve the same safety outcome," Mr Truss said. "Measures have been built into this bill to ensure safety is maintained at the current high levels."
The bill allows the regulator that is best placed to effectively monitor the activities of an operator, to oversee the safety of airlines operating with an Australia-New Zealand certificate.
This means an airline based in New Zealand but operating mostly in Australia would come under the supervision of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority. A CASA spokesman confirmed yesterday that this would allow it to fly here with the New Zealand flight attendant count.
So in theory, Qantas could hand over the majority of ops to Jetconnect ( on paper)
Assuming NZ doesnt have the one crew per door rule (as they have already demonstrated by Jetconnect currently operating their domestic 737's with three crew) this would allow qantas to operate with minimum cabin crew as follows:
B747-400 ER (P) - 7 Cabin Crew
B747-400 K - 8 Cabin Crew
A330-300 (I) - 6 Cabin Crew
767-300 (I) - 5 Cabin Crew
Imagine the $$$ savings, they must be rubbing their hands in anticipation.
Ah well, it was fun while it lasted
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Now we know why the company was possibly not worried about the number of crew taking VR and telling us there would be no need for promotion.
If GD can get the kiwi pax/crew ration he would be over the moon.
The race to the bottom has just changed up a gear.
It is a pity though that we cannot use the same theory to reduce the number of people on the board.
If GD can get the kiwi pax/crew ration he would be over the moon.
The race to the bottom has just changed up a gear.
It is a pity though that we cannot use the same theory to reduce the number of people on the board.
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take a look.
with all the usual stuff on this thread, I thought it maybe fun for everyone to take a look at this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lG5Iq0JViM
enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lG5Iq0JViM
enjoy
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Not if GD has anything to do with it as he must be very envious of Kiwi registered aircraft and their pax ratio. Imagine his bonus increase if he could get that,J* and QF headquarters will be moved to AKL in a flash
Don't they operate a 737 (jet connect) with only 3 cabin crew and
if they do then that is less than a crew per main deck door....unless of course they bought 737's with only 3 doors (special order for GD)
Don't they operate a 737 (jet connect) with only 3 cabin crew and
if they do then that is less than a crew per main deck door....unless of course they bought 737's with only 3 doors (special order for GD)