QANTAS - Australia
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LOL
Errm, well that's a yes and no response.
Yes there was a CCTM with the same initials up in LHR. But she was on a job swap with one of ours. The same thing happened several months ago with our other CCTM and one of yours.
I doubt there was any "getting our house in order" business as such.
Errm, well that's a yes and no response.
Yes there was a CCTM with the same initials up in LHR. But she was on a job swap with one of ours. The same thing happened several months ago with our other CCTM and one of yours.
I doubt there was any "getting our house in order" business as such.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Becoming a CSS is the right step for those who are ready to assume some responsibility and be prepared in making some minor but often important decisions.This is not a position for everyone. Some are happy not to have to take on extra responsibility than that which they originally applied for.
Becoming a QF CSM has by past standards required a prerequisite of several ,if not many, years of experience as a CSS.
This then involves a series of lengthy and involved interview processes.
It takes some as many as four or more attempts before they are successful. Again it is not a position for everyone.
I am not a CSM nor would I want the added responsibility that goes with it.
If it is fact that QF intend to make AKL crew CSM and CSS what thanks is that to the current LH CSSs who have been preparing and developing themselves for this opportunity of promotion and progression? What thanks is that for their loyalty in delivering the new y/c product and all their assistance with all old and new product changes?
What thanks is that to those crew who have by request from QF supported QF by taking CSS and CSM positions in the LHR base.It was understood when they took those roles they would revert to their former positions on their return.How will those former LHR base crew appreciate this offer being made to the AKL crew?
Becoming a QF CSM has by past standards required a prerequisite of several ,if not many, years of experience as a CSS.
This then involves a series of lengthy and involved interview processes.
It takes some as many as four or more attempts before they are successful. Again it is not a position for everyone.
I am not a CSM nor would I want the added responsibility that goes with it.
If it is fact that QF intend to make AKL crew CSM and CSS what thanks is that to the current LH CSSs who have been preparing and developing themselves for this opportunity of promotion and progression? What thanks is that for their loyalty in delivering the new y/c product and all their assistance with all old and new product changes?
What thanks is that to those crew who have by request from QF supported QF by taking CSS and CSM positions in the LHR base.It was understood when they took those roles they would revert to their former positions on their return.How will those former LHR base crew appreciate this offer being made to the AKL crew?
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hawkeye,
don't forget when the MEL and PER bases started, that was when inexperienced CSM's and CSS's first started to be used, because they could not get experienced people to move to take a promotion.
It's not a new thing and it has continued in LHR.
I don't think that there is much difference if they hire CSS's and CSM's in AKL.
don't forget when the MEL and PER bases started, that was when inexperienced CSM's and CSS's first started to be used, because they could not get experienced people to move to take a promotion.
It's not a new thing and it has continued in LHR.
I don't think that there is much difference if they hire CSS's and CSM's in AKL.
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Twiggs,
speedbird house is correct there were many Per /Mel base CSMs and CSSs who had many years of experience.
It was believed back then the majority of those selected who were very junior was more about QF attempting to change the culture rather than selecting on merit and placing a high value on flying experience as a criteria for selection.
Just because it has been done in the past does not make it a good decision. This will place a huge responsibility on many Kiwis who have not had the experience of leadership and decision making.
It of course comes as no surprise. Look at how those former line managers who acted as strikebreakers were treated after they put their reputation on the line for the Company.
This explains why there is no need to replace LHaul CSMs and CSSs due to the redundancy. The Kiwis will be replacing them.
Please remember this is in no way the fault of the Kiwis if this rumour is fact. In this case they are the meat in the sandwich.
Tightslot is right lets keep it to question and answer stuff. Lets not get into slanging matches.
speedbird house is correct there were many Per /Mel base CSMs and CSSs who had many years of experience.
It was believed back then the majority of those selected who were very junior was more about QF attempting to change the culture rather than selecting on merit and placing a high value on flying experience as a criteria for selection.
Just because it has been done in the past does not make it a good decision. This will place a huge responsibility on many Kiwis who have not had the experience of leadership and decision making.
It of course comes as no surprise. Look at how those former line managers who acted as strikebreakers were treated after they put their reputation on the line for the Company.
This explains why there is no need to replace LHaul CSMs and CSSs due to the redundancy. The Kiwis will be replacing them.
Please remember this is in no way the fault of the Kiwis if this rumour is fact. In this case they are the meat in the sandwich.
Tightslot is right lets keep it to question and answer stuff. Lets not get into slanging matches.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Guys,
dont shoot me down here but....
Hawkeye, you mention that a few years ago they promoted CSM/CSS's not necessarily on merit or flying experiance but for more cultural reasons.
If you have been flying for a few years do you not think that you are basically experianced enough to carry out either job? Someone who has been flying for say, 5years, is probably experianced enough in my mind to carry out the task of a CSS. To be honest, i also think that some could do the role of CSM as well.
I have worked with plenty of CSM's who have alot of years in QF (25-30yrs)and have been some of the worst managers i worked under. Not to say all of them are though.
Dont take this post as an attack - i just dont think that it should always be a job where someone with many years flying should be eligable to bid up to these positions.
dont shoot me down here but....
Hawkeye, you mention that a few years ago they promoted CSM/CSS's not necessarily on merit or flying experiance but for more cultural reasons.
If you have been flying for a few years do you not think that you are basically experianced enough to carry out either job? Someone who has been flying for say, 5years, is probably experianced enough in my mind to carry out the task of a CSS. To be honest, i also think that some could do the role of CSM as well.
I have worked with plenty of CSM's who have alot of years in QF (25-30yrs)and have been some of the worst managers i worked under. Not to say all of them are though.
Dont take this post as an attack - i just dont think that it should always be a job where someone with many years flying should be eligable to bid up to these positions.
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I don't have a problem with the AKL base or any base promoting crew to the position of CSS or CSM.The problem I do have is the selection process.
Up to now the company has told us that the role of on board manager is vital to the delivery of the on board product,the managing of crew ,to think outside the box in solving problems,being able to represent the company in a positive way etc.....
To do this they told us we had to go through many interviews,questions on any number of situations ,personality tests and the list goes on...NOW it is going to be given to anyone who is willing to do the job for the lowest possible price....So much for the crucial role of the on board manager....
Up to now the company has told us that the role of on board manager is vital to the delivery of the on board product,the managing of crew ,to think outside the box in solving problems,being able to represent the company in a positive way etc.....
To do this they told us we had to go through many interviews,questions on any number of situations ,personality tests and the list goes on...NOW it is going to be given to anyone who is willing to do the job for the lowest possible price....So much for the crucial role of the on board manager....
Join Date: Apr 2005
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RedTbar,
I couldnt agree more.
I went through the whole drawn out process when i applied for the position of CSM, 1 group interview, 1 interview with a manager and 1 panel interview (with a 15min presentation i found out the topic on the day) plus personality test.
With several CSM's in Syd SH taking the VR package (if they get it) we are going to be seriously short yet again. We (CSM's) constantly get drafted on days off, drafted for 2 legs such as a Mel return after coming off the PER or DRW horror.
I bet that they open up the position to MAM Casuals in the next 12mths. If they do this it will be a huge insult to the position of CSM atleast in SH.
They are already offering the new "Team Leader" job to casuals. That is our attempt at the CSS position. No doubt in the future if you want to become a CSM you will have to have been a Team Leader - i guess kinda like the set-up you have in LH.
I couldnt agree more.
I went through the whole drawn out process when i applied for the position of CSM, 1 group interview, 1 interview with a manager and 1 panel interview (with a 15min presentation i found out the topic on the day) plus personality test.
With several CSM's in Syd SH taking the VR package (if they get it) we are going to be seriously short yet again. We (CSM's) constantly get drafted on days off, drafted for 2 legs such as a Mel return after coming off the PER or DRW horror.
I bet that they open up the position to MAM Casuals in the next 12mths. If they do this it will be a huge insult to the position of CSM atleast in SH.
They are already offering the new "Team Leader" job to casuals. That is our attempt at the CSS position. No doubt in the future if you want to become a CSM you will have to have been a Team Leader - i guess kinda like the set-up you have in LH.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Sydney S/H,
you have put forth some valid points.
Years of experience should not be the ONLY factor in who gets promotion. It should carry a lot of weight in the decision making process.
There are those out there who are natural and talented leaders and decision makers, who are junior in years of service.
An aircraft inflight is a very unique work place.
Your correct there are some CSM/CSSs out there who shouldn't be flying. Which proves there are Cabin crew managers who aren't doing there job by demoting them.
Anyone can be made a manager . the question is how well will they do the job.Example, Robert Mugabe is head of a country. He has ruined Zimbabwe.He is not a good manager or leader.
Selecting QF CSMs and CSSs should be about "attention to detail".
It is a position of great responsibility , problem solving, recovery and leadership as Red T Bar said earlier.
The detail should be in selecting the best in attempting to make Qantas the best.
Somethings should not be a lets go for the cheapest option choice.
I appreciate your thoughts on this topic Sydney S/H
you have put forth some valid points.
Years of experience should not be the ONLY factor in who gets promotion. It should carry a lot of weight in the decision making process.
There are those out there who are natural and talented leaders and decision makers, who are junior in years of service.
An aircraft inflight is a very unique work place.
Your correct there are some CSM/CSSs out there who shouldn't be flying. Which proves there are Cabin crew managers who aren't doing there job by demoting them.
Anyone can be made a manager . the question is how well will they do the job.Example, Robert Mugabe is head of a country. He has ruined Zimbabwe.He is not a good manager or leader.
Selecting QF CSMs and CSSs should be about "attention to detail".
It is a position of great responsibility , problem solving, recovery and leadership as Red T Bar said earlier.
The detail should be in selecting the best in attempting to make Qantas the best.
Somethings should not be a lets go for the cheapest option choice.
I appreciate your thoughts on this topic Sydney S/H
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Hawkeye,
Couldnt agree more regarding the ground management who have made the decision to promote or lack of leadership to demote certain CSM's.
Maybe they should look at myself and atleast 4 of my fellow CSM's who all made our KPI's in the last 12mths - thats right 100% of KPI's - but only rated a 3/5.
But thats a whole other story. Grrrrrr........
Couldnt agree more regarding the ground management who have made the decision to promote or lack of leadership to demote certain CSM's.
Maybe they should look at myself and atleast 4 of my fellow CSM's who all made our KPI's in the last 12mths - thats right 100% of KPI's - but only rated a 3/5.
But thats a whole other story. Grrrrrr........
Join Date: Jun 2005
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I get the feeling that in the future AKL-LAX-AKL will be operated by Kiwi crew only
Sadly I think the reason QF let so many people go through VR is there wont be many places beyond Asia that QF wont be able to run a cheaper crew to.
As for the LHR Base it might be scary thinking of future viability:
CSM in LHR = approx AUD$65,000
CSM in AKL = approx AUD$50,600 (according to Leanne's figures)
yes they are approx figures not including allowances, just a broad comparison. Is the LHR Base going to become too expensive as well?
Join Date: Mar 2006
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....
hey sydney s/h
I thought team leader and 2nd senior are the same thing? Many times when I was at Qantas I was 2nd senior (due to all casual crew, and i had been there 4 years). So why do u have an issue with casuals being team leaders?
Casual CSM thats another story, and personally I do not think it can work.
You can no expect casuals to just sit around and get no where with what they are doing, as an on board manager you should be encouraging casuals to aspire to the team leader position. IT may give some a well deserved moral boost.
Sydney s/h not a personal attack, so please don't start. Just trying to put a point across.
I thought team leader and 2nd senior are the same thing? Many times when I was at Qantas I was 2nd senior (due to all casual crew, and i had been there 4 years). So why do u have an issue with casuals being team leaders?
Casual CSM thats another story, and personally I do not think it can work.
You can no expect casuals to just sit around and get no where with what they are doing, as an on board manager you should be encouraging casuals to aspire to the team leader position. IT may give some a well deserved moral boost.
Sydney s/h not a personal attack, so please don't start. Just trying to put a point across.
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Mamslave,
I actually dont have a problem with mam team leaders and never said that i did.
I do however have an issue with casual CSM's. Mainly because they are meant to hold the CSM position as some sort of management and to have a workforce that is not employed by the company etc i think its abit strange. Just my opinion - doesnt mean its right.
Goodluck to those casuals who go for the team leader - i wont stand in their way.
I actually dont have a problem with mam team leaders and never said that i did.
I do however have an issue with casual CSM's. Mainly because they are meant to hold the CSM position as some sort of management and to have a workforce that is not employed by the company etc i think its abit strange. Just my opinion - doesnt mean its right.
Goodluck to those casuals who go for the team leader - i wont stand in their way.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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crew survey
hi all,
does anybody know the result of the engagement survey
or is this a better kept secret than kiwi csm/css's?
management will keep doing whatever they want until such
time as the beancounters figure out that it is revenue negative.
that is why we are doing incorporated bars to/from asia ports.
with regard to o/s crew, if enough punters can't see a difference
between qf and ba/singapore/emirates then migration of loyalty
will see a transfer of dollars to other airlines.
until that happens our management will not make any change of
course
does anybody know the result of the engagement survey
or is this a better kept secret than kiwi csm/css's?
management will keep doing whatever they want until such
time as the beancounters figure out that it is revenue negative.
that is why we are doing incorporated bars to/from asia ports.
with regard to o/s crew, if enough punters can't see a difference
between qf and ba/singapore/emirates then migration of loyalty
will see a transfer of dollars to other airlines.
until that happens our management will not make any change of
course
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Re the dis-engagement surveys......
It seems that QF have twigged that the unprecedented levels of disengagement recorded across all levels of QF by the Hewitt group relates to how the staff feel about management, not the brand.
It could be suggested that we are our own worst enemy with QF receiving historically high customer satisfaction responses at the same time as management keep kicking us........again and again.
Talking to others it seems that I am not the only one hearing disquiet from FF and the like.
Along the lines of, " why am I loyal to Qantas by supporting an Aussie company, when it isn't loyal to it's own ? ".
Peter Harbison from the centre for pacific aviation reported over two years ago that Dixon's master plan was to be the first "legacy carrier" CEO to take on [read demolish] the conditions of it's staff and our little mate johnny via work-no-choices should just about see his plan out.
Dixon has been kept on for no other reason.
Rumour has it that alison webster was in major damage control at QCC this morning what with the news of pay scales for AKL based CSSs and CSMs.
I believe it was some thing along the lines of, "we have no plans to promote in AKL in the forceeable future....."
Reminds me of dixon's, "there is nothing on my desk regarding the London base".
-------------
How sad it has been to see all the senior CSM and CSS on their last and next to last trips.
So many truely wonderfull people..... Dotty, David Fury are just a couple who have given so much of themselves over so many years. Just a couple who will be sorely missed.
The contribrution to Qantas's success that people like these have made is immeasurable and we will be left with far fewer characters on the ground.
Its sad for me to watch us morph into a soulless, characterless and homogenous corporation with staff ever fearfull of knives in the back.
A very senior, competant and caring CSM [with an order of Australia award for his charity work] said with such poignancy the other day.
"I'm leaving because I can't manage [my crew] the way i want to any more".
It broke my heart.......
-------------------
Sorry for the rant.
For those leaving, thankyou for all the wonderful memories, all the best for your retirement and see you at the reunion.
At the risk of stating the obvious. This lot don't deserve you.
--------------
Almost forgot........
Don't forget to go QF for " industrial deafness". Everyone is doing it.
Take a leaf out of management's book and cream QF FOR ALL YOU CAN GET!!!
It seems that QF have twigged that the unprecedented levels of disengagement recorded across all levels of QF by the Hewitt group relates to how the staff feel about management, not the brand.
It could be suggested that we are our own worst enemy with QF receiving historically high customer satisfaction responses at the same time as management keep kicking us........again and again.
Talking to others it seems that I am not the only one hearing disquiet from FF and the like.
Along the lines of, " why am I loyal to Qantas by supporting an Aussie company, when it isn't loyal to it's own ? ".
Peter Harbison from the centre for pacific aviation reported over two years ago that Dixon's master plan was to be the first "legacy carrier" CEO to take on [read demolish] the conditions of it's staff and our little mate johnny via work-no-choices should just about see his plan out.
Dixon has been kept on for no other reason.
Rumour has it that alison webster was in major damage control at QCC this morning what with the news of pay scales for AKL based CSSs and CSMs.
I believe it was some thing along the lines of, "we have no plans to promote in AKL in the forceeable future....."
Reminds me of dixon's, "there is nothing on my desk regarding the London base".
-------------
How sad it has been to see all the senior CSM and CSS on their last and next to last trips.
So many truely wonderfull people..... Dotty, David Fury are just a couple who have given so much of themselves over so many years. Just a couple who will be sorely missed.
The contribrution to Qantas's success that people like these have made is immeasurable and we will be left with far fewer characters on the ground.
Its sad for me to watch us morph into a soulless, characterless and homogenous corporation with staff ever fearfull of knives in the back.
A very senior, competant and caring CSM [with an order of Australia award for his charity work] said with such poignancy the other day.
"I'm leaving because I can't manage [my crew] the way i want to any more".
It broke my heart.......
-------------------
Sorry for the rant.
For those leaving, thankyou for all the wonderful memories, all the best for your retirement and see you at the reunion.
At the risk of stating the obvious. This lot don't deserve you.
--------------
Almost forgot........
Don't forget to go QF for " industrial deafness". Everyone is doing it.
Take a leaf out of management's book and cream QF FOR ALL YOU CAN GET!!!
Last edited by speedbirdhouse; 26th Sep 2006 at 14:05. Reason: Forgot to remind them about the industrial deafness
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Tokyo
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Qantas CC in Japan?
I'm not sure if I'm in the right place... I live in Tokyo and was wondering if Qantas has any CC based in Japan, or whether it's worth applying online through the website. I speak French & only a tiny bit of Japanese. I'm also on the wrong side of 35, not sure if that matters.
Hope someone can help.
Hope someone can help.
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Bugger. But thanks so much Biscuit Chucker (hehehe like the name).
Can't go anywhere - I am really stuck here in Tokyo which is a great place in so many ways, but......well, bugger.
Can't go anywhere - I am really stuck here in Tokyo which is a great place in so many ways, but......well, bugger.
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Uh Oh
Two male flight attendants were stood down following reports of sexual misconduct.
The two were reported by the operating CSM.
The female involved was 17yrs old.
This event occurred on or around the 14th of September 2006.
The CC are reportedly SYD based.
This would mean that they were operating the QF 31 Sin/Lhr or QF 32 Lhr/Sin around this time...both night sectors
Refer Post 59 for the real story
The two were reported by the operating CSM.
The female involved was 17yrs old.
This event occurred on or around the 14th of September 2006.
The CC are reportedly SYD based.
This would mean that they were operating the QF 31 Sin/Lhr or QF 32 Lhr/Sin around this time...both night sectors
Refer Post 59 for the real story
Last edited by prunezeuss; 28th Sep 2006 at 04:54. Reason: info update
Join Date: Apr 2005
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I saw something on tv today regarding Virgin Blue. They have just started selling 24 channels of Foxtel on board for $6.
I reckon thats great and $6 well spent on a longer flight (syd-per).
I hate Virgin but i think they are onto something. Unlike QF, we persist on a crappy IFE system on our A330's that you spend more re-setting it than anything else.
I was recently on a 744 on a longhaul flight and had no IFE for the whole trip (entire a/c was u/s). We need to get something better.
Dont Emirates have 600 channels with AVOD that works?
I reckon thats great and $6 well spent on a longer flight (syd-per).
I hate Virgin but i think they are onto something. Unlike QF, we persist on a crappy IFE system on our A330's that you spend more re-setting it than anything else.
I was recently on a 744 on a longhaul flight and had no IFE for the whole trip (entire a/c was u/s). We need to get something better.
Dont Emirates have 600 channels with AVOD that works?