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as i said before
research other cabin crews wages and conditions
research Qf cabin crew managements conditions & bonuses over the last few years
educate the public about the real issues, not the bu******t GD & Dame Margret put out at the AGM
research Qf cabin crew managements conditions & bonuses over the last few years
educate the public about the real issues, not the bu******t GD & Dame Margret put out at the AGM
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Fares quoted as being as low as USD$128.
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let's not be hasty
Oasis has not flown yet and this is the third delay on it’s inaugural flight but there are 2 points here.
1: Oasis has not yet flown and it will be sometime before it is known whether it will be a success or not as is the case with J* international .Remember J* Asia is based in Asia as is Oasis and has been a resounding flop.
2: Even the flight from HKG to LGW is only 11 to 12 hours and a single sector. The flight from Sydney to Europe as a possible destination for J* international is a lot further and is a multi sector trip. This makes it a vastly different proposition to flying a LCC on single sectors even around the 11 or 12 hour length.
We will have to wait for a while yet before we can see how the dice has rolled
As qcc has mentioned why don't we (faaa ) publish or state in an interview the pay and conditions and bonus's that our company gets compared to other carriers management and as I have asked publish the demands and other letters that the company sends to the union.This would put an end to the usual rumour mill and give all crew an idea of where we stand.
To the faaa response team that reads this forum don't tell us to ring the union office because then other crew are hearing the facts 2nd or 4th hand and only helps the rumour factory BS and the poor switchboard at the faaa bunker could not cope with 3 thousand or so phone calls.Let us know what the company is up to through you instead of galley gossip
1: Oasis has not yet flown and it will be sometime before it is known whether it will be a success or not as is the case with J* international .Remember J* Asia is based in Asia as is Oasis and has been a resounding flop.
2: Even the flight from HKG to LGW is only 11 to 12 hours and a single sector. The flight from Sydney to Europe as a possible destination for J* international is a lot further and is a multi sector trip. This makes it a vastly different proposition to flying a LCC on single sectors even around the 11 or 12 hour length.
We will have to wait for a while yet before we can see how the dice has rolled
As qcc has mentioned why don't we (faaa ) publish or state in an interview the pay and conditions and bonus's that our company gets compared to other carriers management and as I have asked publish the demands and other letters that the company sends to the union.This would put an end to the usual rumour mill and give all crew an idea of where we stand.
To the faaa response team that reads this forum don't tell us to ring the union office because then other crew are hearing the facts 2nd or 4th hand and only helps the rumour factory BS and the poor switchboard at the faaa bunker could not cope with 3 thousand or so phone calls.Let us know what the company is up to through you instead of galley gossip
Last edited by lowerlobe; 26th Oct 2006 at 01:18.
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oasis, new LCC
should work. it has lots of money behind the company. they want to break even within 18 month. the difference to J* Int. is that they fly (going to build their network) between high volume city pairs. very different market then end destinations like oz. in addition they will get easier access to many more destinations at high volume markets then oz based carriers.
also there is food, entertainment and a blanket included in the price
also there is food, entertainment and a blanket included in the price
Last edited by qcc2; 26th Oct 2006 at 03:11.
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juat appeared on the crew website
ATTENTION ALL SHORT HAUL CUSTOMER
SERVICE MANAGERS
SHORTHAUL TO LONGHAUL DIVISIONAL TRANSFERS
EFFECTIVE THE 15TH JANUARY 2007.
Applications are now open for 7 Shorthaul Customer Service Managers to transfer
to the Melbourne Longhaul Division within Category.
Applications will be awarded in Strict Seniority order and must be signed by your Base Management
Team.
CONDITIONS
• All Customer Service Managers must have completed a minimum of two (2) years service in their current category
before their transfer application will be accepted.
• This allocation will not be actioned from any current waitlists, therefore if you are on a current divisional
transfer waitlist and you wish to transfer to the Longhaul Division in Category you will still need to send in an
application.
Applications will close on Friday 17th November, 2006 at 1700.
The Allocation will take place on Monday the 20th November, 2006 and a Notice will be published by Tuesday the 21st
November to advise crew of the awarded positions. Following the Notice, individual letters will be forwarded to these crew
members advising them of further details regarding the Course.
Training is planned to commence on the 15th January, 2007 with a planned Online date of the 22January, 2007.
what's going on here......... anyone care to enlighten us..
ATTENTION ALL SHORT HAUL CUSTOMER
SERVICE MANAGERS
SHORTHAUL TO LONGHAUL DIVISIONAL TRANSFERS
EFFECTIVE THE 15TH JANUARY 2007.
Applications are now open for 7 Shorthaul Customer Service Managers to transfer
to the Melbourne Longhaul Division within Category.
Applications will be awarded in Strict Seniority order and must be signed by your Base Management
Team.
CONDITIONS
• All Customer Service Managers must have completed a minimum of two (2) years service in their current category
before their transfer application will be accepted.
• This allocation will not be actioned from any current waitlists, therefore if you are on a current divisional
transfer waitlist and you wish to transfer to the Longhaul Division in Category you will still need to send in an
application.
Applications will close on Friday 17th November, 2006 at 1700.
The Allocation will take place on Monday the 20th November, 2006 and a Notice will be published by Tuesday the 21st
November to advise crew of the awarded positions. Following the Notice, individual letters will be forwarded to these crew
members advising them of further details regarding the Course.
Training is planned to commence on the 15th January, 2007 with a planned Online date of the 22January, 2007.
what's going on here......... anyone care to enlighten us..
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A little while ago...
7 LH CSM in Perth were given the opportunity to transfer to SH when the LH base closed.
A proviso was 7(one for one)SH Pursers could transfer to LH in Category.
This proviso is now being enacted.
Nothing mysterious or secretive.
It was, and is, an agreed protocol of which everyone was informed.
It is for MEL only
A proviso was 7(one for one)SH Pursers could transfer to LH in Category.
This proviso is now being enacted.
Nothing mysterious or secretive.
It was, and is, an agreed protocol of which everyone was informed.
It is for MEL only
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"Fair's fair"
Agree ..........it was and still is a fair decision considering how the Perth Base was treated.
What worries me now though is that the MEL base is going the same way.
Their pattern books are a shocker!
Hardly any LA's, few SIN and HKG's, the rest SYD, CNS and .........you guessed it PER returns.
This is EXACTLY what happened during the lead up to the demise of the Perth base........I'm sorry to say.
There are ex PER guys who transferred to MEL only to be now doing PER returns. How shat off would you feel to be taking off, flying for 4.40 mins , arriving in your "home base" then transit....operate back to MEL then commute back to PER.!!
Yeah sure , before everyone gets on and says it all about "choice" ( that C-word again!!!! ) But when will the bean counters make up their minds post Carmen and decide the Bases are going to stay or NOT !!!!.
seems to me the ONLY bases QF sees as being viable are OFFSHORE BASES.
What worries me now though is that the MEL base is going the same way.
Their pattern books are a shocker!
Hardly any LA's, few SIN and HKG's, the rest SYD, CNS and .........you guessed it PER returns.
This is EXACTLY what happened during the lead up to the demise of the Perth base........I'm sorry to say.
There are ex PER guys who transferred to MEL only to be now doing PER returns. How shat off would you feel to be taking off, flying for 4.40 mins , arriving in your "home base" then transit....operate back to MEL then commute back to PER.!!
Yeah sure , before everyone gets on and says it all about "choice" ( that C-word again!!!! ) But when will the bean counters make up their minds post Carmen and decide the Bases are going to stay or NOT !!!!.
seems to me the ONLY bases QF sees as being viable are OFFSHORE BASES.
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I find it interesting that our share price has gone as high as it has in the last week.
Maybe the general public has bought the PR campaign that was put up at the AGM.
Maybe the general public has bought the PR campaign that was put up at the AGM.
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RE MEL base flying
I would say it is premature to make any assumptions about the future of the MEL base based on the flying in the present and next roster.
All flying in all bases is going to be abnormal until the dust settles from the VR departures.
The main difference between PER and MEL is that there is going to be frequent long range 744 flying out of MEL for the foreseeable future, and that was probably the main reason the base was set up in the first place.
All flying in all bases is going to be abnormal until the dust settles from the VR departures.
The main difference between PER and MEL is that there is going to be frequent long range 744 flying out of MEL for the foreseeable future, and that was probably the main reason the base was set up in the first place.
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Hey surfside - whats the training a SH Purser has to do to become a LH CSM. When i did my upgrade training im pretty sure it was a CSM course not a "purser" course.
And dont tell me its a LH thing. We fly to more international destinations than you do.
And dont tell me its a LH thing. We fly to more international destinations than you do.
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Interesting media report
On October 29, Qantas Airways announced that it had placed firm orders for eight more Airbus A380s, the world's largest passenger aircraft.
The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, said the order increased the airline's commitment to the A380 to 20 aircraft, to be delivered between August 2008 and 2015.
Mr Dixon said the A380 was clearly the most suitable aircraft for Qantas to deploy on dense longhaul routes from Australia to the United States, the United Kingdom, Continental Europe and possibly the Middle East.
"Our decision to increase our order has been made after an extensive review of the recent problems at Airbus and the delivery schedule delays of the A380.
"We are convinced that these problems relate to industrialisation issues at Airbus and will be remedied, and in no way relate to the technical capacity of the A380.
"The A380 has breakthrough technology and everything we have seen reinforces our view that it is the best available aircraft for Qantas.
"It will provide unprecedented comfort and space, as well as meeting our payload and range requirements."
Mr Dixon said Qantas had made an original order for 12 A380s with options for a further 12 aircraft in 2000.
"We have negotiated an attractive 'package' to firm up an additional eight A380s. The package also includes an additional four A330-200 aircraft which will help Qantas mitigate capacity concerns associated with the delay of the airline's first A380s.
"The four A330-200s will be delivered between December 2007 and December 2008."
Mr Dixon said the terms of the new contract provided, among other things, protection against any further delay in the A380 delivery schedule and slide rights in the event of changed circumstances.
He said the Qantas Board believed the new aircraft order gave the Qantas Group long term certainty of supply of the world's most up to date aircraft.
"In parallel with the A380 order, we have a contract with Boeing for the supply from 2008 of up to 115 B787 new generation aircraft, which also have the very latest technology for aircraft in the 300 seater range.
"The Boeing 787 and the Airbus A380 both have up to 20 per cent lower operating costs than existing aircraft and will form the nucleus of the fleets out to 2015 for Qantas and our low cost airline Jetstar."
Mr Dixon said Qantas would use a combination of outright purchase and operating leases in acquiring the aircraft.
"All the costs of these new aircraft will be met by operating cash flows," he said.
Mr Dixon said Qantas had also decided to buy five more Boeing 737-800 aircraft for delivery from February 2008.
"The Boeing 737-800s will be used along with our existing 33 B737-800s in Australian domestic operations and will replace older B737-400s. The B737-400s will be sold, redeployed or converted to dedicated freighter aircraft."
Qantas Group has a fleet of 219 aircraft.
Interesting that the reports mentions that the company wants to use the A-380 on dense L/H routes such as the UK and the US to mention two.Yet LG in a letter tabled at the faaa union meeting insists that L/H crew will never operate the A-380 under our current conditions.
Does that mean that another crew will be operating the aircraft on these routes or that the company believes we will be operating cheaper by that time..
The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, said the order increased the airline's commitment to the A380 to 20 aircraft, to be delivered between August 2008 and 2015.
Mr Dixon said the A380 was clearly the most suitable aircraft for Qantas to deploy on dense longhaul routes from Australia to the United States, the United Kingdom, Continental Europe and possibly the Middle East.
"Our decision to increase our order has been made after an extensive review of the recent problems at Airbus and the delivery schedule delays of the A380.
"We are convinced that these problems relate to industrialisation issues at Airbus and will be remedied, and in no way relate to the technical capacity of the A380.
"The A380 has breakthrough technology and everything we have seen reinforces our view that it is the best available aircraft for Qantas.
"It will provide unprecedented comfort and space, as well as meeting our payload and range requirements."
Mr Dixon said Qantas had made an original order for 12 A380s with options for a further 12 aircraft in 2000.
"We have negotiated an attractive 'package' to firm up an additional eight A380s. The package also includes an additional four A330-200 aircraft which will help Qantas mitigate capacity concerns associated with the delay of the airline's first A380s.
"The four A330-200s will be delivered between December 2007 and December 2008."
Mr Dixon said the terms of the new contract provided, among other things, protection against any further delay in the A380 delivery schedule and slide rights in the event of changed circumstances.
He said the Qantas Board believed the new aircraft order gave the Qantas Group long term certainty of supply of the world's most up to date aircraft.
"In parallel with the A380 order, we have a contract with Boeing for the supply from 2008 of up to 115 B787 new generation aircraft, which also have the very latest technology for aircraft in the 300 seater range.
"The Boeing 787 and the Airbus A380 both have up to 20 per cent lower operating costs than existing aircraft and will form the nucleus of the fleets out to 2015 for Qantas and our low cost airline Jetstar."
Mr Dixon said Qantas would use a combination of outright purchase and operating leases in acquiring the aircraft.
"All the costs of these new aircraft will be met by operating cash flows," he said.
Mr Dixon said Qantas had also decided to buy five more Boeing 737-800 aircraft for delivery from February 2008.
"The Boeing 737-800s will be used along with our existing 33 B737-800s in Australian domestic operations and will replace older B737-400s. The B737-400s will be sold, redeployed or converted to dedicated freighter aircraft."
Qantas Group has a fleet of 219 aircraft.
Interesting that the reports mentions that the company wants to use the A-380 on dense L/H routes such as the UK and the US to mention two.Yet LG in a letter tabled at the faaa union meeting insists that L/H crew will never operate the A-380 under our current conditions.
Does that mean that another crew will be operating the aircraft on these routes or that the company believes we will be operating cheaper by that time..
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Twiggs ,
Excuse my possible ( but improbable ) literary inferiority but I did not know it was possible to answer a question with one of two possible outcomes with a yes/no answer.
Exactly what was your positive answer referring to and what do you base it on?
Another interesting point though is that Darth is happy with the explanation for the delay and that it is fixable
Excuse my possible ( but improbable ) literary inferiority but I did not know it was possible to answer a question with one of two possible outcomes with a yes/no answer.
Exactly what was your positive answer referring to and what do you base it on?
Another interesting point though is that Darth is happy with the explanation for the delay and that it is fixable
Last edited by lowerlobe; 29th Oct 2006 at 09:22.
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Sale of the Century
What a deal.!!!!
Bet the boyz are sitting around cracking a few bottles of "french" over this one.
The negotiation could of gone something like this:
Airbus chief: "Weeze are tres soorry pour le stuff up avec le deliverie de Le grand avion."
Dixon: OK my little frog friend ..... time for some serious "le chat" -if you don't throw in at least 6x A-330's for nix.....this f---k-n deal is heading to Seattle with our pals at le Boeing-GET IT OR GET OUT!!!!
Airbus chief: Oui, Oui monsieur. We will donnez-vous 4x Airbuses gratis-..ca va?
Dixon: mmmmmmmmmmm Ok mate -DEAL....where do I sign??
Walking back to their hired Citroen......
Dixon: "OK boys lets celebrate down at the Riverera for a few days."
Then back at the QCA bunker.
Now to really put the icing on the cake.
A-380( x20) division for Cabin Crew (1000+)
Airbus division for Techies ie if you fly on an A-330, same pay as A-380.....all the same really EXCEPT one's got 2 extra engines and a bit of extra grunt!
"Lets crack another bottle of Moet.....deals only come a long like this, once in a life time"!-Dixon
Bet the boyz are sitting around cracking a few bottles of "french" over this one.
The negotiation could of gone something like this:
Airbus chief: "Weeze are tres soorry pour le stuff up avec le deliverie de Le grand avion."
Dixon: OK my little frog friend ..... time for some serious "le chat" -if you don't throw in at least 6x A-330's for nix.....this f---k-n deal is heading to Seattle with our pals at le Boeing-GET IT OR GET OUT!!!!
Airbus chief: Oui, Oui monsieur. We will donnez-vous 4x Airbuses gratis-..ca va?
Dixon: mmmmmmmmmmm Ok mate -DEAL....where do I sign??
Walking back to their hired Citroen......
Dixon: "OK boys lets celebrate down at the Riverera for a few days."
Then back at the QCA bunker.
Now to really put the icing on the cake.
A-380( x20) division for Cabin Crew (1000+)
Airbus division for Techies ie if you fly on an A-330, same pay as A-380.....all the same really EXCEPT one's got 2 extra engines and a bit of extra grunt!
"Lets crack another bottle of Moet.....deals only come a long like this, once in a life time"!-Dixon
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In laymans terms, if we haven't agreed to "operate cheaper" (your words), then someone else will be doing the work. (you gave 2 possible scenerios to explain her statement and one is an alternative for the other, and it will be our decision that determines which one occurs)
Last edited by twiggs; 29th Oct 2006 at 09:51. Reason: added laymans terms for lowerlobe
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Layman's terms?
Twiggs,
Yep ,I thought you would answer my question like that and it makes about as much sense as usual.
My point is that you responded like a pax who when asked if they would like Tea or Coffee looks vacantly at us and say’s “YES” and that answer has nothing to do with layman’s terms just a complete lack of understanding.
My question was a rhetorical one. The company has an agenda and it does not really matter what we do or offer. I have seen over the years a number of reasonable offers made to the company only to be rejected because they have no interest in our well being.
I’ll rephrase my question so that you might understand it .Does the company know something we don’t know in the way of an agreement already reached or are they that confident that we’ll cave in as usual in this latest game of chicken?
They are only interested in the total destruction of our T & C’s .Even if we say we will work for 240 hours then S/H will say they will work for 250 and so on with the only winner being Darth and the board. It is one group played against another in a race to the bottom.
How long it was after our last EBA when you would think that there would be peace and stability did the company try something? From memory it was only a few months. It does not matter what we give up, they will only want more and there are a lot of Neville Chamberlains out there who will give in at a drop of a hat.
TWIGGS, Do you want to work for J* international pay and conditions?
What are you willing to concede in quantitative terms?
Don't give us any airy fairy ,vague concepts of what we should prepared to give up .Tell us how many hours you think we should be doing and other concessions we should make to guarantee we fly the A-380 to the UK and the US
Yep ,I thought you would answer my question like that and it makes about as much sense as usual.
My point is that you responded like a pax who when asked if they would like Tea or Coffee looks vacantly at us and say’s “YES” and that answer has nothing to do with layman’s terms just a complete lack of understanding.
My question was a rhetorical one. The company has an agenda and it does not really matter what we do or offer. I have seen over the years a number of reasonable offers made to the company only to be rejected because they have no interest in our well being.
I’ll rephrase my question so that you might understand it .Does the company know something we don’t know in the way of an agreement already reached or are they that confident that we’ll cave in as usual in this latest game of chicken?
They are only interested in the total destruction of our T & C’s .Even if we say we will work for 240 hours then S/H will say they will work for 250 and so on with the only winner being Darth and the board. It is one group played against another in a race to the bottom.
How long it was after our last EBA when you would think that there would be peace and stability did the company try something? From memory it was only a few months. It does not matter what we give up, they will only want more and there are a lot of Neville Chamberlains out there who will give in at a drop of a hat.
TWIGGS, Do you want to work for J* international pay and conditions?
What are you willing to concede in quantitative terms?
Don't give us any airy fairy ,vague concepts of what we should prepared to give up .Tell us how many hours you think we should be doing and other concessions we should make to guarantee we fly the A-380 to the UK and the US
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The order for even more A380's shows us some things.
Our boss is betting huge on this one with a number of delays and questions as to whether it will ever operate at all because of it's problems.
He has said that the airline with the best return will get them and if you look at the returns from J* you would question our new sibbling getting any at all.In fact whether L/H crew are more expensive than other crew mainline is making more money than J* and by that logic should get the new aircraft
Now maybe that means the company would like S/H to operate the aircraft to Europe ,UK and the US but I'm sure most S/H crew would not like it.Perhaps as Speedbirdhouse mentioned the company will find enough F/A's willing to drop their conditions and call it the 380 Division which will be another group used to divide and conquer.
Maybe airbus gave GD a sweetener big enough that he could not resist but if this aircraft turns out to be a lemon then GD will be remembered for it.
Our boss is betting huge on this one with a number of delays and questions as to whether it will ever operate at all because of it's problems.
He has said that the airline with the best return will get them and if you look at the returns from J* you would question our new sibbling getting any at all.In fact whether L/H crew are more expensive than other crew mainline is making more money than J* and by that logic should get the new aircraft
Now maybe that means the company would like S/H to operate the aircraft to Europe ,UK and the US but I'm sure most S/H crew would not like it.Perhaps as Speedbirdhouse mentioned the company will find enough F/A's willing to drop their conditions and call it the 380 Division which will be another group used to divide and conquer.
Maybe airbus gave GD a sweetener big enough that he could not resist but if this aircraft turns out to be a lemon then GD will be remembered for it.
Last edited by RedTBar; 29th Oct 2006 at 21:11.
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Hey speedbirdhouse,
maybe you and your clever mates in LH should ensure that your crewing the
A380.
You and your union have failed in so many other ways to keep flying within the LH ranks (LHR base, AKL base, BKK base, AO, Jetstar, QF SH taking flying).
Maybe, just maybe, its time for a new tact and try a different spin on how you can keep your jobs.
Dont use the old excuse that everyone is under-cutting you - come up with a new idea to keep your flying. You can whinge - or you can attempt to fix it.
maybe you and your clever mates in LH should ensure that your crewing the
A380.
You and your union have failed in so many other ways to keep flying within the LH ranks (LHR base, AKL base, BKK base, AO, Jetstar, QF SH taking flying).
Maybe, just maybe, its time for a new tact and try a different spin on how you can keep your jobs.
Dont use the old excuse that everyone is under-cutting you - come up with a new idea to keep your flying. You can whinge - or you can attempt to fix it.