BA Cabin Service Director Pay
Hope it's not RYR either...... Just imagine the hypeJoin Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Golden Ticket
Thank you for updating me on what happens in my own airline!
If you choose to reread the original post and my reply more carefully, I was questioning in a new start-up airline why one would choose to have such a hierarchy when it is patently not required and not best industry practice.
Thank you for updating me on what happens in my own airline!
If you choose to reread the original post and my reply more carefully, I was questioning in a new start-up airline why one would choose to have such a hierarchy when it is patently not required and not best industry practice.
The plot thickens.................BMed or GB Air?
i'm sure the management of GB or Bmed wouldn't need to resort to question asking on this kind of forum to establish the level of pay for CSD's.....
Although i am very interested (from a GB point of view) to see how this develops....
The only UK operator of the A340 is VS, so where are the crews coming from?
plaa343 i shall watch your replies with interest
bpm
Although i am very interested (from a GB point of view) to see how this develops....
The only UK operator of the A340 is VS, so where are the crews coming from?
plaa343 i shall watch your replies with interest
bpm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: London
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ETOPS and beauport p-m
The company is a completely new start-up and not a rebrand of an existing airline.
A valid comment - we invariably have access to industry figures with regard to flight crew remuneration, including the ever useful 
CAA annual figures. However, since (unusually) the Senior Management team of the company have a large amount of aviation experience they seem to value the opinions of the sort of people who do the job for real. Strange, I know. . . .
I appreciate the comments of the hierachy of the planned CC system. There is a delicate balance to be struck between too many layers of authority clouding lines of responsibility and the requirement to offer genuine career progression within the company. In practical terms the only CC types that will exist are Crew, Pursers and PSMs. The seperation of CC into Jnr and Snr is soley financial to allow experience to be reflected in the pay spine.
VS are certainly the only operator of the larger A340-600, but there are charter operators using A343s and the occasional A342 from the UK. However, to answer your real question, the crews will come from the open market and ab-initio sources. A programme is being developed to provide a training package for crews of different aircraft types. The primary target crews will be ex 747-400, 777 and of course Airbus family aircraft. A seperate "ab-initio" package will also be contracted.
Outside of corporate confidentiality I am prepared to answer any questions that you may have in order to gain a grass-roots opinion of our planned ops.
Again, Thanks.
The company is a completely new start-up and not a rebrand of an existing airline.
i'm sure the management of GB or Bmed wouldn't need to resort to question asking on this kind of forum to establish the level of pay for CSD's.....
CAA annual figures. However, since (unusually) the Senior Management team of the company have a large amount of aviation experience they seem to value the opinions of the sort of people who do the job for real. Strange, I know. . . .
I was questioning in a new start-up airline why one would choose to have such a hierarchy when it is patently not required and not best industry practice.
The only UK operator of the A340 is VS, so where are the crews coming from?
Outside of corporate confidentiality I am prepared to answer any questions that you may have in order to gain a grass-roots opinion of our planned ops.
Again, Thanks.
plaa343
thanks for the response......... what i was most pleased to hear was your comment that your management / or the management you are acting for seem to value to opinion of people on the 'shop floor' ....
Having worked on the ground in various posts and laterly in the air as both cabin crew and flight deck i have seen many an ill-thoughtout plan implemented and fail, when all that was needed was a simple chat or an opinion from those 'in the know'.
would be most interested - within the confines to which you can allow - to hear how this all progresses.
good luck
bpm
thanks for the response......... what i was most pleased to hear was your comment that your management / or the management you are acting for seem to value to opinion of people on the 'shop floor' ....
Having worked on the ground in various posts and laterly in the air as both cabin crew and flight deck i have seen many an ill-thoughtout plan implemented and fail, when all that was needed was a simple chat or an opinion from those 'in the know'.
would be most interested - within the confines to which you can allow - to hear how this all progresses.
good luck
bpm
.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: London
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CC,
Thank you for all of your responses, and PMs, they are much appreciated. I have a few questions that I would like to ask:
1. What do CC think the role of the PSM/CSD/In-Charge should be?
2. Should the In-Charge have an assigned station for service?
3. What is the response to a formalised process within a company of progression from CC to the Flight Deck (with the invariable aptitude tests and return of service)?
In order to make our position clear here are our thoughts:
A1. The role of the PSM is the company's customer service representative. Time would be spent talking to customers and ensuring that the overall aim of cabin service was being achieved, no direct station would be asigned, however, it would be expected that PSMs would spend enough time at each station during each monthly work cycle to ensure they understand the "shop floor" issues of the time. The leadership role is also emphasised, the PSM is the line manager to his/her CC and the direct link between the CC and the Captain.
A2. As A1 states we believe that the PSM, as in-charge, should have no asigned station (with the exception of an emergency station).
A3. We firmly believe that there should be a formalised process to allow talented CC to progress to the Flight Deck. We would be looking to allow in the region of 2-3 CC per year to progress through a company sponsored training program to the Flight Deck as a FO.
Your thoughts and comments are, as ever, much appreciated.
Many Thanks
Thank you for all of your responses, and PMs, they are much appreciated. I have a few questions that I would like to ask:
1. What do CC think the role of the PSM/CSD/In-Charge should be?
2. Should the In-Charge have an assigned station for service?
3. What is the response to a formalised process within a company of progression from CC to the Flight Deck (with the invariable aptitude tests and return of service)?
In order to make our position clear here are our thoughts:
A1. The role of the PSM is the company's customer service representative. Time would be spent talking to customers and ensuring that the overall aim of cabin service was being achieved, no direct station would be asigned, however, it would be expected that PSMs would spend enough time at each station during each monthly work cycle to ensure they understand the "shop floor" issues of the time. The leadership role is also emphasised, the PSM is the line manager to his/her CC and the direct link between the CC and the Captain.
A2. As A1 states we believe that the PSM, as in-charge, should have no asigned station (with the exception of an emergency station).
A3. We firmly believe that there should be a formalised process to allow talented CC to progress to the Flight Deck. We would be looking to allow in the region of 2-3 CC per year to progress through a company sponsored training program to the Flight Deck as a FO.
Your thoughts and comments are, as ever, much appreciated.
Many Thanks
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you think the CAA will like the idea of taking a 170 hour ab-initio pilot and putting them at the controls on an A340? That day of base training will be rather expensive also. Without the required 1500+ hours to hold a full ATPL it's also going to cost you on insurance to have such an inexperienced pilot at the control of such a large aircraft.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: London
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
taking a 170 hour ab-initio pilot and putting them at the controls on an A340?
* CC selected for transfer programme to the Flight Deck
* PPL/Night/IMC conducted as a block
* Continued employment as CC
* Distance learning ATPL examinations
* Leave CC roster
* CPL/ME/IR
* Hours building
* Secondment to a regional airline (negotiations in place) for 9 - 16 months
* Return to us and commence FO line training
* End of programme, 2000 hours total time, 1500 jet FO
* Fully employed as FO within the company.
Hope this clears up any confusion.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry for misunderstanding your post TopBunk didn't mean to cause offence. I thought your original post was querying why BA was as it was, not a new start airline. I read your post out of context with plaa343's.
Last edited by Golden Ticket; 21st Dec 2005 at 09:21.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Age: 41
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the role of PSM is well thought out. I am a firm believer that the overall SCCM needs to have a hands on approach to the service, otherwise how else can they guide and improve it if they are not actively participating.
I do feel that not assigning them to a particular role in the service is good. This means that the PSM can carry out the PR part onboard and also hop on a trolley in any of the cabins to see how the service is going and to monitor performance of colleagues too.
The PSM must have an allocated safety station, true. However the benefit of not assigning the PSM to a service position means the service is not hampered if he/she is required to visit the flight deck, or to fix the IFE, or deal with negative comments from pax etc. The list is endless.
The above does not mean that the PSM can hide in the corner and just do paperwork. PSM’s should be looked up to by the other crew. Therefore an example should be set by the onboard manager. The more they get involved in the service and the crew welfare, the more respect and motivation will be secreted by the crew. Thus giving a polished and professional service.
To summarize. Yes, get them involved in the service and have them in all cabins. It looks nice too for an economy pax to see the PSM. I have noticed it before that the overall SCCM does not make it to the back of the aircraft apart from to make their way to the bunks. It looks bad. The economy pax may have paid less. It does not mean to say they should not be treated differently. If the PSM spends time in economy for parts of the service along with doing the PR. Who knows, maybe next time the pax travel with the company they may wish to experience the benefits of the next category of cabin ?
In response to the idea on filtering CC thorough for FO sponsorship. Great! Lots of people that I have come across have loved working a crew but wanted to challenge themselves more. However, the opportunities were not always there. Good way of keeping staff too. It is hard to keep employees loyal so if this is the way to offer a progression and self development. Great!
The final comment is “…please send me an application form for the CC roles…””
I do feel that not assigning them to a particular role in the service is good. This means that the PSM can carry out the PR part onboard and also hop on a trolley in any of the cabins to see how the service is going and to monitor performance of colleagues too.
The PSM must have an allocated safety station, true. However the benefit of not assigning the PSM to a service position means the service is not hampered if he/she is required to visit the flight deck, or to fix the IFE, or deal with negative comments from pax etc. The list is endless.
The above does not mean that the PSM can hide in the corner and just do paperwork. PSM’s should be looked up to by the other crew. Therefore an example should be set by the onboard manager. The more they get involved in the service and the crew welfare, the more respect and motivation will be secreted by the crew. Thus giving a polished and professional service.
To summarize. Yes, get them involved in the service and have them in all cabins. It looks nice too for an economy pax to see the PSM. I have noticed it before that the overall SCCM does not make it to the back of the aircraft apart from to make their way to the bunks. It looks bad. The economy pax may have paid less. It does not mean to say they should not be treated differently. If the PSM spends time in economy for parts of the service along with doing the PR. Who knows, maybe next time the pax travel with the company they may wish to experience the benefits of the next category of cabin ?
In response to the idea on filtering CC thorough for FO sponsorship. Great! Lots of people that I have come across have loved working a crew but wanted to challenge themselves more. However, the opportunities were not always there. Good way of keeping staff too. It is hard to keep employees loyal so if this is the way to offer a progression and self development. Great!
The final comment is “…please send me an application form for the CC roles…””
