Willie Walsh's CC plans
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I can't stop laughing at this...That Willie Walsh poster is hillarious! 
As for what Willie was supposed to say in that short haul briefing...Best joke I've heard in ages!
I know, you should all quit your jobs at your various airlines because you're obviously not happy and become stand up comedians...You may earn as much as a BA cabin crew member then!
As for what Willie was supposed to say in that short haul briefing...Best joke I've heard in ages!
I know, you should all quit your jobs at your various airlines because you're obviously not happy and become stand up comedians...You may earn as much as a BA cabin crew member then!
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I agree wirh Flying Sarah...Willie wont change a thing....the CC union is too strong and too clever to allow the CC to be bent over a barrell and shafted, the CC only have to call "strike" and the airline grinds to a halt very rapidly, the CC know it and they know WW knows it to ...... easier targets like BALPA for that!
Paxing All Over The World
Let me, as a mere pax, risk throwing a cat among the pigeons...
Recently, there was a fuel shortage in Cape Town for some 36 hours or sure, details in African Aviation forum. For the BA 744 non-stop CPT ~ LHR, this was a problem. However, a suitable refuelling point was available with only a slight diversion. Upington had fuel and a mighty long runway. Upington is in the Cape Province and, essentially, directly north from CPT. The a/c could have departed Cape Town, made a tech stop at Upington and got on home with a minimum of delay.
As I understand it, the BASSA agreement does not allow the CC to do this - although flight crew COULD. This meant that the a/c was stuck at CPT and passengers were not being flown and the schedules were disrupted, money was being lost and folks were getting very agitated.
Is this the case?
Does the CC contract prevent them making a tech stop and thus prevent the a/c getting home?
If so - then this must be only for a tech stop that is known about before departure?
If a tech stop becomes neccessary en route, will the CC then not complete the journey, thus forcing the a/c to be stuck at the intermediate point?
Please clarify the situation to me as I would not want to make any comment on what is, currently, second hand information.
I understand that the situation was rectified by the flight crew taking the machine to Upington to tank up and then returning to CPT for another night stop, to reset their Hours. Then they made the return to LHR in the normal single hop.
Recently, there was a fuel shortage in Cape Town for some 36 hours or sure, details in African Aviation forum. For the BA 744 non-stop CPT ~ LHR, this was a problem. However, a suitable refuelling point was available with only a slight diversion. Upington had fuel and a mighty long runway. Upington is in the Cape Province and, essentially, directly north from CPT. The a/c could have departed Cape Town, made a tech stop at Upington and got on home with a minimum of delay.
As I understand it, the BASSA agreement does not allow the CC to do this - although flight crew COULD. This meant that the a/c was stuck at CPT and passengers were not being flown and the schedules were disrupted, money was being lost and folks were getting very agitated.
Is this the case?
Does the CC contract prevent them making a tech stop and thus prevent the a/c getting home?
If so - then this must be only for a tech stop that is known about before departure?
If a tech stop becomes neccessary en route, will the CC then not complete the journey, thus forcing the a/c to be stuck at the intermediate point?
Please clarify the situation to me as I would not want to make any comment on what is, currently, second hand information.
I understand that the situation was rectified by the flight crew taking the machine to Upington to tank up and then returning to CPT for another night stop, to reset their Hours. Then they made the return to LHR in the normal single hop.
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So what have the CC given then Carnage ? AMP merely brings them into line with the rest of BA, it'll still be BALPA caving in and the pilots getting shafted financially.....the CC unions havent really been shown who's boss at all as will be come apparent when WW goes after the rest of BA.
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Paxboy, Im not too sure how to answer your question exactly whithout actually talking to a Bassa rep but I can certainly hazard a guess...which hopefully wont be a million miles off the fact!
The CC have different working time limitations then the flight crew. CPT already pushes the boundry of the maximum amount of time we can fly as it is one of the longest non-stop flights we operate. Now we certainly can do tech stops but obviously on a long flight the time we have to complete that tech stop is much shorter. Perhaps it was a case that with the time required to make the tech stop and fuel up the plane, it would have put the CC out of hours to operate the remainder of the flight home, either an additional stop would have to be made over north africa our southern europe for the cc to get some rest or they would have to be taken off the plane at the tech stop and allowed minimum hours rest!!!
This is just MY GUESS in the matter so dont shoot me down, I am just lending my opinion. The whole union agreements thing is a confusing one which I find very difficult to understand but just bere in mind that situations such as this are there to maximise the safety of everyone on board! Laugh if you will but until you have actually done the job, dont jest!
The CC have different working time limitations then the flight crew. CPT already pushes the boundry of the maximum amount of time we can fly as it is one of the longest non-stop flights we operate. Now we certainly can do tech stops but obviously on a long flight the time we have to complete that tech stop is much shorter. Perhaps it was a case that with the time required to make the tech stop and fuel up the plane, it would have put the CC out of hours to operate the remainder of the flight home, either an additional stop would have to be made over north africa our southern europe for the cc to get some rest or they would have to be taken off the plane at the tech stop and allowed minimum hours rest!!!
This is just MY GUESS in the matter so dont shoot me down, I am just lending my opinion. The whole union agreements thing is a confusing one which I find very difficult to understand but just bere in mind that situations such as this are there to maximise the safety of everyone on board! Laugh if you will but until you have actually done the job, dont jest!
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HG, that kind of attitude is very admirable, I'm glad you feel so secure. Maybe if you went and had a chat to some of our Aer Lingus friends you would be a little more wary.
If I was WW and read your post I would make it my number one aim to shaft you and all those with your arrogant, misinformed view. I'll make you an offer on you SLK when its up for sale in the New Year...
If I was WW and read your post I would make it my number one aim to shaft you and all those with your arrogant, misinformed view. I'll make you an offer on you SLK when its up for sale in the New Year...
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PAXBoy, your fuel shortage story sounds very dubious to me. A 744 full of fuel, even without freight and pax would exceed the max landing weight for a short hop with from Upington to Cape Town. I would think also with an elevation of 850m, the possibility of tech stopping on the way to London would quite possibly be payload restricted, especially in the Summer. I do agree that it is absurd that CC hours could ever be more limiting than that of Flight Deck.
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Obfuscation - the Cape Town story is true. Cabin crew refused to tech stop resulting in a 24 hour delay.
Helli-Gurl - I knew you're posting was going to be a laugh when you said BASSA were too clever. Too stubborn perhaps, or too hard-nosed, but clever BASSA certainly ain't. After months of bluster and a pointed refusal to accept any sort of AMP, they went into the meeting full of fury and walked away several days later with exactly the same AMP as everyone else, meaning they delayed the payment to their members by almost a year for no reason. They also had a vote on possible industrial action and got less than a 20% return, and most of those were against industrial action. If you think "the CC only have to call "strike" and the airline grinds to a halt very rapidly" then you are deluding yourself. I don't think BASSA could manage a strike if their lives depended on it these days.
If you want to know what the CC have given then why not try to ask the CSD on the next A321 you are on? BASSA didn't like that move and were told where to stick it. Perhaps you'd like to have a good read of the new Worldwide Disruption Agreement which means BA gets far more out of the crew at the tiny cost of a hotel room if you're on early QRS. The tide has convincingly turned in the negotiations these days and BASSA is walking away from the table having made large sacrifices for virtually nothing in return.
Meanwhile BALPA members continue to enjoy the financial benefits of their pay benchmarking and restructuring exercise.
Helli-Gurl - I knew you're posting was going to be a laugh when you said BASSA were too clever. Too stubborn perhaps, or too hard-nosed, but clever BASSA certainly ain't. After months of bluster and a pointed refusal to accept any sort of AMP, they went into the meeting full of fury and walked away several days later with exactly the same AMP as everyone else, meaning they delayed the payment to their members by almost a year for no reason. They also had a vote on possible industrial action and got less than a 20% return, and most of those were against industrial action. If you think "the CC only have to call "strike" and the airline grinds to a halt very rapidly" then you are deluding yourself. I don't think BASSA could manage a strike if their lives depended on it these days.
If you want to know what the CC have given then why not try to ask the CSD on the next A321 you are on? BASSA didn't like that move and were told where to stick it. Perhaps you'd like to have a good read of the new Worldwide Disruption Agreement which means BA gets far more out of the crew at the tiny cost of a hotel room if you're on early QRS. The tide has convincingly turned in the negotiations these days and BASSA is walking away from the table having made large sacrifices for virtually nothing in return.
Meanwhile BALPA members continue to enjoy the financial benefits of their pay benchmarking and restructuring exercise.
I call you back
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Re: Willie Walsh's CC plans
I hope Sarah and Helli-Gurl aren't representative of the intellect throughout BA staff.
Instead of statements such as
you would be better advised to have meetings with all the interested unions and form a joint-committee with a mandate to tackle any attack on any staff.
The story about the briefing may be untrue, but he is capable of such behavior.
It is mind boggling that a potential victim of WW is proclaiming
as he rides into town. Lambs...slaughter...It wont be pretty.
Instead of statements such as
Willie wont change a thing....the CC union is too strong and too clever to allow the CC to be bent over a barrell and shafted
The story about the briefing may be untrue, but he is capable of such behavior.
It is mind boggling that a potential victim of WW is proclaiming
You may earn as much as a BA cabin crew member then
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Re: Willie Walsh's CC plans
Helli-Gurl - Having worked for BA, the unions aren't as strong as you presume - look at the EG300 just flying through, despite lots of "We'll strike...they can't touch us" attitude. And despite the 97 strike fiasco, the new pay deal DID happen!
I think it naive for (BA) crews to believe they won't face a few more changes (like that of EG300). Between my period at BA (1990-1999) there had ultimately been huge changes. Experienced BA crews will tell you that they really work like dogs now and for pennies -although shinier pennies than most other carriers.
Does it not register that the cost of flying is getting lower and lower and so cuts have to happen and conditions change?
I think it naive for (BA) crews to believe they won't face a few more changes (like that of EG300). Between my period at BA (1990-1999) there had ultimately been huge changes. Experienced BA crews will tell you that they really work like dogs now and for pennies -although shinier pennies than most other carriers.
Does it not register that the cost of flying is getting lower and lower and so cuts have to happen and conditions change?
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Re: Willie Walsh's CC plans
Well I was quietly eating a Lion Bar in T4 arrivals and saw Willie W talking to the cleaners outside the Gents loo and could lip read the words "sack" and "cabin crew" and "loads of them" and my sister knows this guy who works as a dishwasher at an undisclosed pub above T1 departures says he overheard a convo between Willie W and a man in a suit who were having the "buy one get one free" early bird special brekkie and they were talking about buying Fokkers and getting all WW to train up on them to do SH from NWI!!! It's true and I also heard from the woman downstairs whose cousin lives in Crawley that she saw Willie W outisde Concorde House in LGW dressed up in an EZY uniform having a quick fag with a load of crew and they were really ALIENS and there's this big conpiracy to get all BA EF CC to work for METROBUS as drivers and run the number 20 to HORLEY and BA are going to sell all their planes and Willie is going to take the money to buy MINIBUSES and expand the Fastlink bus service to THE MOON and that's true and with the money they make from selling London Eye they're going to buy a BROTHEL outside Zaragoza and all remaining CC (those not trained on Fokkers from NWI or working on the buses to Horley/the Moon) have to work as go-go dancers and/or lap dancers at that brothel which will be in direct competition from Easyjet's new range of low-cost whore joints to be branded as "EasySlut" and Zaragoza will be BA's flagship brothel, with The Rivers being converted into the UK's biggest ever CASINO with all check-in staff having to work there TOPLESS and that's true 'cause my mum heard this the other day when she was sitting on the loo on the flight to Manchester with these 2 gossiping CC talking about all of this in the galley after they had dished out congelled pizza slices.
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Re: Willie Walsh's CC plans
Originally Posted by Turroncin
Well I was quietly eating a Lion Bar in T4 arrivals and saw Willie W talking to the cleaners outside the Gents loo and could lip read the words "sack" and "cabin crew" and "loads of them" and my sister knows this guy who works as a dishwasher at an undisclosed pub above T1 departures says he overheard a convo between Willie W and a man in a suit who were having the "buy one get one free" early bird special brekkie and they were talking about buying Fokkers and getting all WW to train up on them to do SH from NWI!!! It's true and I also heard from the woman downstairs whose cousin lives in Crawley that she saw Willie W outisde Concorde House in LGW dressed up in an EZY uniform having a quick fag with a load of crew and they were really ALIENS and there's this big conpiracy to get all BA EF CC to work for METROBUS as drivers and run the number 20 to HORLEY and BA are going to sell all their planes and Willie is going to take the money to buy MINIBUSES and expand the Fastlink bus service to THE MOON and that's true and with the money they make from selling London Eye they're going to buy a BROTHEL outside Zaragoza and all remaining CC (those not trained on Fokkers from NWI or working on the buses to Horley/the Moon) have to work as go-go dancers and/or lap dancers at that brothel which will be in direct competition from Easyjet's new range of low-cost whore joints to be branded as "EasySlut" and Zaragoza will be BA's flagship brothel, with The Rivers being converted into the UK's biggest ever CASINO with all check-in staff having to work there TOPLESS and that's true 'cause my mum heard this the other day when she was sitting on the loo on the flight to Manchester with these 2 gossiping CC talking about all of this in the galley after they had dished out congelled pizza slices.
I LIKE IT !
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Re: Willie Walsh's CC plans
Instead of making blase comments perhaps use some examples of:
a) Why it is a 'gravy train'.
and
b) Examples you have seen of how it is coming to a halt.
So far, these are what have been proposed to BASSA to look at in order to save GBP70M from in-flight services:
- Single fleet LGW
- 767 mixed flying for LHR eurofleet.
- Eurofleet adopting 'fixed links'.
- Eurofleet assisting with gate boarding.
- Disruption agreement for Eurofleet.
Non crew related:
- Reduction in product on shortes european sectors.
- Cancellation of BA bus services from crew report centre to central terminal area.
And at the very beginning of discussions:
- A limited number of ICC based crew on additional longhaul routes.
- A 'newer' new contract.
So I am sorry to disappoint, but nothing so far about slashing cabin crew pay, making them work like dogs, cleaning the a/c etc etc.
a) Why it is a 'gravy train'.
and
b) Examples you have seen of how it is coming to a halt.
So far, these are what have been proposed to BASSA to look at in order to save GBP70M from in-flight services:
- Single fleet LGW
- 767 mixed flying for LHR eurofleet.
- Eurofleet adopting 'fixed links'.
- Eurofleet assisting with gate boarding.
- Disruption agreement for Eurofleet.
Non crew related:
- Reduction in product on shortes european sectors.
- Cancellation of BA bus services from crew report centre to central terminal area.
And at the very beginning of discussions:
- A limited number of ICC based crew on additional longhaul routes.
- A 'newer' new contract.
So I am sorry to disappoint, but nothing so far about slashing cabin crew pay, making them work like dogs, cleaning the a/c etc etc.
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Re: Willie Walsh's CC plans
Why it is a 'gravy train'
2.Double allowances paid to change trips during disruption on long haul.
3.Working one down payments on long haul.
4.Very generous box payments on long haul.
5.CSD and a Purser on 757
Examples you have seen of how it is coming to a halt.
2. WW disruption agreement removes the need.
3. see above
4. T5 report times reduced, shorter duty days, fewer box payments.
5. No CSD on a 321.
Just a few of my thoughts.
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Re: Willie Walsh's CC plans
My question regarding AMP is if it is so fair to all BA employees,why did BA feel it had to offer a £1000(before tax) bribe!!?.
Be it BA or any other company you have to doubt a policy like the above when money has to be offered!!.
Maybe it's just me or perhaps it was our 'caring' management team just being their normal,fair, all above board honest people we know they are
......oh wait there goes another pig flying just past my window!!.
.
WTDWL.
Be it BA or any other company you have to doubt a policy like the above when money has to be offered!!.
Maybe it's just me or perhaps it was our 'caring' management team just being their normal,fair, all above board honest people we know they are
......oh wait there goes another pig flying just past my window!!. .WTDWL.