BA CSD Suspended for incorrectly demanding hotel upgrade!

[Da Dog]

eddy my opinion I'm entitled to it, you can pick your toys up now

Flaps, you work for a different company with a different culture.

appadyinuk, unfortunatly people already have the wrong opinion of BA crew............... doesn't take pprune to do it for you, compared to all other airline crew you are molleycuddled and spolit , get used to it, cos this is the perception most of the people in BA have, mind you I blame BA news (Pravda) for some of this.

Helli Girl, like it or not we only accept various hotels if we can stay on higher floors, these are stipulated at the time the contract is signed, don't know what BASSA do, but if you think they are any better than yours your mostly mistaken

[flyblue]

I don;t see any reason why the flight crew should get a better room than the Cabin Crew?

The reason is that usually Flight Crew have better Unions that negotiate better agreements.
Flaps In our mob usually the Captain get a better room, and depending on the hotel agreement the F/O(s) too. When someone else than the F/D gets an upgrade, it's usually on seniority (our crew lists are on seniority, so they assign the rooms according to the list) or at random. We usually aren't even notified that someone got an upgrade.
The requirements hotel accommodations must meet are codified by union agreements (ex: room service, not near elevators or ice machines, no communicating rooms etc).

[Eddy]

Hi Da Dag,

At no point was I saying that you weren't entitled to an opinion and at no point did I suggest that your opinion was wrong.

The only thing I took exception to in your post was your suggestion that I was "speaking again". Found that a bit harsh.

Nevertheless, ta!

- Apaddyinuk, who was the SIN message aimed at??? Me???

[Caudillo]

I don;t see any reason why the flight crew should get a better room than the Cabin Crew?

The reason is that usually Flight Crew have better Unions that negotiate better agreements.

I don't think that the flight crew should have better rooms than the crew - it's an unnecessary and pointless divide. However, when they do get them I would suggest it's for the same reason they get paid a higher salary.

[flapsforty]

Temporary thread drift alert!!

I trust you are equally aware that it is in fact our mob that generate the profit for the new company, while your lot bleed euros at an alarming rate?

No need to thank us my dear, we love propping you guys up!

Back to the thread; Caudillo if I understand the posts by others here correctly, what should or should not be has little bearing on things. It appears to be a matter that is negotiated between the various unions and the companies.

As an aside, while in an ideal world a company would try to be 'fair and evenhanded' with it's employess, in the real world, most company management I know love to play the age old game of 'divide & rule' to set up Pilots and FAs against eachother. That way, both groups distrust eachother too much to ever get together properly and really give management some good opposition.
Cockpit and Cabin Crew seem to fall for this ruse in many companies, and in the end it's the beancounters who win, not the people who actually man/woman the aircraft.

[flyblue]

Da Dog
I agree with Eddy here that you sounded a little agressive when there was no need at all. There are other ways to say "Eddy, I believe you are mistaken", instead of saying "eddy talking again".
Eddy is a valuable and generous contributor on this Forum and I don't think he deserves this kind of treatment. I am sure an aoplogy wouldn't go wasted.

[Captain Airclues]

As we read these messages there are thousands of people in SE Asia and Africa dying because they don't have a roof over their head. Why are we so concerned about the size of the room? Is it a status thing?
Personally I believe that the best room should go to anyone who has a family member with them, followed by anyone who is prepared to use it as the party room. All I need is a room that is quiet, dark and has a bed that I can fall on after a night out with the crew.

Airclues

[Eddy]

Despite what I've said above about the hotels offering upgrades on a basis of their choosing, I do think that in terms of the BOOKED rooms we have, all crew should be given the same grade of accommodation.

As was so correctly pointed out above, the booking of a superior room grade for a Captain, for example, offers the indication to him by the company the he is above, superior to, more valuable -call it what you wish - than the rest of the crew.

While this may indeed be the case, I do believe this is also to blame for a severe lack of CRM that some of the company's Skipper posess.

I am pleased that they are in the minority, but some of the company's Skippers are very eliteist and high-and-mighty. Thing is though, the company encourages this by offering the higher room grade and also rest in First Class, for example.

I don't hold this against our captains - they have a fabulous union who works hard to get these "perks" for them - but one or two do need to realise that although they have a superior room, it doesn't really mean that they are a superior being, if you will.

[Right Way Up]

Whats wrong with the Captain getting the biggest room, it means he has to clear up the after party residue?!

[Da Dog]

Eddy are some CDS not high and mighty? Do some CSD not belive they are superior to everyone?

You do look at life through rose tinted specticles when it comes to looking at your own. Talk about picking your most convenient arguments.

Eddy use your Cabin Crew "listening skills" will you, the Captains room is bought and paid for at the same rate as yours mine and everyone else, it starts out being no different to everyone else, speak to Hotel Contracts ................... please and get the offical version of the upgrade policy for yourself(hint most of it has been posted on the thread already, VERBATUM) Then you will stop coming out with crass comments like and I quote "The booking of a superior room grade for a Captain" (which is blatantly untrue) and I will then stop saying that you are talking :mad

Flyblue I am sure that eddy is a valued contributer but what is the point if the info given is sooooooooo untrue? What value is that?

[keeperboy]

I don't know if BA have put anything in writing about room upgrdes, but BASSA definitely have. The only thing I could find on the BASSA website was something along the lines of 'Please fill in a report if you are operating as CSD and don't receive a room at the same grade as the First Officer(s)'.

But I agree, I don't understand why the CSD should get a room one bit more superior than anyone else.

I was the most junior crew member on a recent trip to SFO. I think because I was right at the bottom of the list the poor receptionist felt sorry for me and gave me an upgraded room.

I was so excited I made the mistake of mentioning my fantastic view to the rest of the crew. The CSD was straight on the phone to the hotel Duty Manager wanting (and getting) an upgrade as well.

[Dogs_ears_up]

How do you know that they were not busy doing the paper work that is involved in the job, writing reports from when things went wrong on a previous sector, busy observing pursers for asessements, busy helping crew do the service in a cabin that was not the one you were in....

The point is that this is what many other airlines do, but in many cases, the CSD is also built into the onboard service - in other words, all the above is done in addition to the primary duties.

[TightSlot]

Despite what I've said above about the hotels offering upgrades on a basis of their choosing, I do think that in terms of the BOOKED rooms we have, all crew should be given the same grade of accommodation.

As was so correctly pointed out above, the booking of a superior room grade for a Captain, for example, offers the indication to him by the company the he is above, superior to, more valuable -call it what you wish - than the rest of the crew.

But surely, He/She IS above/superior to the rest of the crew. If you don't understand that, then you may become a potential safety hazard in an emergency.

The crew (inc F/O) may work as a team, but there is a team leader - the Captain. He/She carries the ultimate responsibility for decision making in all the areas that matter: This fact is recognised financially by the airline.

Many Cabin Crew are confused by the nature and purpose of CRM, which is primarily a cockpit safety tool, and includes the word "Management" - and therefore requires a "Manager". Although there is CRM overspill into the cabin during certain kinds of incident, and therefore Cabin Crew need an understanding of what is going on, that is not the primary focus of CRM. CRM does not, and never was intended to relate to such things as hotel room upgrades or buying drinks for Cabin Crew.

Surely, we must all face facts - The Captain is indisputably Top Dog on the crew team. Some of them handle it in a discreet way that makes things tick smoothly, like a swiss watch: Some lack team skills and the watch slows up. That is because they are human. Ugraded hotel rooms are provided as a way to pay respect to the rank/position, not the individual.

It is up to us (as CSD's or whatever we are called chez vous) to support the Captain at all times in managing the crew. To do so effectively, we need to have a clear understanding of the chain of command within the team.

[flapsforty]

Hear hear!!

[keeperboy]

Regarding a chain of command, there is no grey area here.

The chain of command is clearly set out in our 'Flying Crew Orders'.

1210 "All crew members are under the direct supervision of and directly responsible to the Captain and shall perform all duties pertaining to the flight as directed by him."

1211 "The chain of command of the crew is:
Captain
Relief Captain
First Officer
Cruise only Co-pilot
Senior Cabin Crew Member

Now I normally wouldn't go lookin up Flying Crew Orders on a Sunday morning, but eh, what else is a boy to do in Kuwait? lol

Apparently when it comes to crew breaks/bunk rest though, it is totally at the discretion of the CSD.

[flybywire]

The CSD was straight on the phone to the hotel Duty Manager wanting (and getting) an upgrade as well.

Sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad.

[Hand Solo]

I don't know if BA have put anything in writing about room upgrdes, but BASSA definitely have. The only thing I could find on the BASSA website was something along the lines of 'Please fill in a report if you are operating as CSD and don't receive a room at the same grade as the First Officer(s)'.

What BA have put in writing (in every single hotel contract) has already been posted. BASSA believe that they have an agreement that CSDs should have rooms equivalent to FO's. Unfortunately:

i.BA deny the existence of any such agreement.
ii.BASSA cannot produce a written copy of said agreement.
iii.No minutes exist of the meeting where said agreement was reached.

Which would lead most non-BASSA people to a fairly logical conclusion.

[Wingswinger]

I was going to write something here but having read it all I really can't be bothered. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Hand Solo]

But you did anyway.

[flybywire]

I cannot believe that we're at this point. I cannot believe there are some people who get mad because they don't get a hotel room "upgrade" - whatever that means - and that Bassa and other unions spend their time (and our money) thinking of and fighting BA for these stupid rules.

Our operation has many other problems that would come first in my order of priorities, I still cannot believe that these days they are discussing about hotel upgrades, especially if we consider that 99% of BA hotels around the world are well known top class 4-5 star hotels (and if a particular one isn't you're allowed to compensation!!!), where even the cleaners' rooms would be good enough for me and for the company policy anyway!!!!!!

If that CSD got suspended for their attitude towards the hotel staff I can only be pleased. There are way too many rude people who get away with the most embarassing things. I don't tolerate rudeness from crew the same way as I don't tolerate it from passengers.
I feel sorry for the poor skipper who (hopefully) apologised to the hotel staff on befalf of BA and of the selfish crew.

These people make us all look bad. It's a real shame.

FBW