EBA & IR Issues in Australia (Not for those easily offended!)
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Just looked at the QF media website...sorry the faaa website and had a bit of a laugh...
It suggested that the company changed the LHR trip to 2 nights from 39 hours for the crew.
The real reason is that the company now pays less allowances for the new LHR pattern than they did for the previous trip with a 39 hour slip in LHR .There is also the issue of huge sick leave on the LHR base which they are trying to address by giving the 31 and 32 to the SYD based crew.
It is a very clever move by the company,at first glance it appears that they are giving us a better slip but it saves the company at least $100 per crew per trip...
We all know what really motivates the company and it is not how we feel but I suppose that the faaa will try and tell us that they fought for us and got us 2 local nights. So which trip will be more popular,the 39 hour slip with more money or the new one with 2 nights ,less money and 3 daylight sectors..mmmmmm
Guardian1 has also mentioned here on pprune that there are other reasons or more information as to why we should give dispensation on the JFK issue,well ,why can’t they print them here or do the company and the faaa have something to hide.
Anything they say at a union meeting will find it’s way back to the office so they may as well print them here and save the office the trouble of asking some informer what was said !!!
It suggested that the company changed the LHR trip to 2 nights from 39 hours for the crew.
The real reason is that the company now pays less allowances for the new LHR pattern than they did for the previous trip with a 39 hour slip in LHR .There is also the issue of huge sick leave on the LHR base which they are trying to address by giving the 31 and 32 to the SYD based crew.
It is a very clever move by the company,at first glance it appears that they are giving us a better slip but it saves the company at least $100 per crew per trip...
We all know what really motivates the company and it is not how we feel but I suppose that the faaa will try and tell us that they fought for us and got us 2 local nights. So which trip will be more popular,the 39 hour slip with more money or the new one with 2 nights ,less money and 3 daylight sectors..mmmmmm
Guardian1 has also mentioned here on pprune that there are other reasons or more information as to why we should give dispensation on the JFK issue,well ,why can’t they print them here or do the company and the faaa have something to hide.
Anything they say at a union meeting will find it’s way back to the office so they may as well print them here and save the office the trouble of asking some informer what was said !!!
Last edited by lowerlobe; 14th Sep 2005 at 11:27.
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Lowerlobe,
I do london trips all the time, the FAAA met with suzanne holden and asked for the trip to be extended to more than 36 hours...its in the minutes of the Planning and Scheduling meeting.
I have lost all faith in the people in here..i have never b4 believed that people could believe their own bull****!!!
Flight attendant create merry hell about the hotel in LA..the FAAA does something about it and then crew turn on them
Crew create hell about a 38 hour slip in London then the FAAA tries to do something about it and crew believe its a management conspiracy.
When will some of you guys grow up????????
I do london trips all the time, the FAAA met with suzanne holden and asked for the trip to be extended to more than 36 hours...its in the minutes of the Planning and Scheduling meeting.
I have lost all faith in the people in here..i have never b4 believed that people could believe their own bull****!!!
Flight attendant create merry hell about the hotel in LA..the FAAA does something about it and then crew turn on them
Crew create hell about a 38 hour slip in London then the FAAA tries to do something about it and crew believe its a management conspiracy.
When will some of you guys grow up????????
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Pegasus747
You do LHR trips all the time, well I’m happy for you….so do I, well I used to until they went from bad to worse .I asked AS if the union could do something about the slip being reduced to 39 hours and the FRA trips return slip in SIN being reduced and was told they could nothing because the company had all the power, in fact he seem very dis-interested in it. Don't tell me as well,"that all discussions with the company are sensitive and secret so they can't tell us" , that line is wearing a little thin.
Now ,we are told that the union is behind the trip being changed, maybe you are right but all I know is that the company’s response was because the trip costs less than the previous one not because the faaa asked them to change it or they want us to have more time in LHR . Did the faaa ask for the re-instatement of the original slip???Did the faaa tell us they were going to approach the company to change the slip??? How about the FRA trip??? All of a sudden something changes and the faaa is very quick to claim the credit.
As I said AS certainly did not give the impression of any action being taken and I would like to know how you know about the minutes from the Planning and Schedule meeting??? Another faaa rep here not liking being asked questions?
A small band of crew wants to stay at the Mis-Adventure not the bulk, so I don’t know what you are going on about there.
I am very interested in crew’s adequate rest and safety and as a union member have the right to ask questions regarding our conditions and what the union’s response is and believe that you should take your own advice on the last line of your post…because when you grow up you will know how to spell the word "before"
I would also like to ask when the faaa is going to mail us the vote forms for the JFK issue.??? Or do they have to run that past Lesley Grant first???
You do LHR trips all the time, well I’m happy for you….so do I, well I used to until they went from bad to worse .I asked AS if the union could do something about the slip being reduced to 39 hours and the FRA trips return slip in SIN being reduced and was told they could nothing because the company had all the power, in fact he seem very dis-interested in it. Don't tell me as well,"that all discussions with the company are sensitive and secret so they can't tell us" , that line is wearing a little thin.
Now ,we are told that the union is behind the trip being changed, maybe you are right but all I know is that the company’s response was because the trip costs less than the previous one not because the faaa asked them to change it or they want us to have more time in LHR . Did the faaa ask for the re-instatement of the original slip???Did the faaa tell us they were going to approach the company to change the slip??? How about the FRA trip??? All of a sudden something changes and the faaa is very quick to claim the credit.
As I said AS certainly did not give the impression of any action being taken and I would like to know how you know about the minutes from the Planning and Schedule meeting??? Another faaa rep here not liking being asked questions?
A small band of crew wants to stay at the Mis-Adventure not the bulk, so I don’t know what you are going on about there.
I am very interested in crew’s adequate rest and safety and as a union member have the right to ask questions regarding our conditions and what the union’s response is and believe that you should take your own advice on the last line of your post…because when you grow up you will know how to spell the word "before"
I would also like to ask when the faaa is going to mail us the vote forms for the JFK issue.??? Or do they have to run that past Lesley Grant first???
Last edited by lowerlobe; 15th Sep 2005 at 13:14.
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Lowerlobe
Fortunately, the vast majority of crew who want information get it from the FAAA rather than this forum.
It has been my experience that unlike the former union reps, that have told us the truth.
You have often mention AS told you this or that. Why dont you give MM a call rather than writing in here. That way you can tell us all what HE said to you.
But you know i sorta suspect you are one of the old reps that have never gotten over the pasting the members gave the old union in the last elections.
I certainly know for sure no one following the same policies will ever get elected again.
You may like me be interested in whats going on. but unlike you lowerlobe i went to the meetings and listened to what was said and what other members had to say.
If personally dont think you would ever go to a meeting and say what you say here with complete anonymity coz you havent got the ticker.
Their are elections coming up for the FAAA lowerlobe. Why dont you should us your vision for out job security and run for office, then you can truly show what you are made of and what you have to offer us all
If not then button up and offer some contructive support to the ppl that are doing their best
Fortunately, the vast majority of crew who want information get it from the FAAA rather than this forum.
It has been my experience that unlike the former union reps, that have told us the truth.
You have often mention AS told you this or that. Why dont you give MM a call rather than writing in here. That way you can tell us all what HE said to you.
But you know i sorta suspect you are one of the old reps that have never gotten over the pasting the members gave the old union in the last elections.
I certainly know for sure no one following the same policies will ever get elected again.
You may like me be interested in whats going on. but unlike you lowerlobe i went to the meetings and listened to what was said and what other members had to say.
If personally dont think you would ever go to a meeting and say what you say here with complete anonymity coz you havent got the ticker.
Their are elections coming up for the FAAA lowerlobe. Why dont you should us your vision for out job security and run for office, then you can truly show what you are made of and what you have to offer us all
If not then button up and offer some contructive support to the ppl that are doing their best
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Pegasus.747.
Amazing, you did not answer one question, just slagged away as usual, just like the other faaa reps!!!
I would like to go to a meeting but as the Sydney one’s were when I was away and the last one the day I got back ,it is a bit difficult if you a life and commitments outside of flying.
Why were the meetings not held over a 2 to 3 week gap in Sydney so people on long trips or holidays could attend??? You really only wanted as few as possible crew to go didn’t you!!
You also did not answer my question as to how you know what the minutes were?
Nor did you answer about when the voting slips were being mailed?
Nor did you answer why the faaa does not tell us what they are doing about various issues?
Respect for someone has to be earned and not just given …What is the point of ringing MM, when I have already rung on a number of occasions and had to wait all day for someone to ring back? I like most people have a lot more to do than wait around the phone all day!!
Are you saying that I should call the union office and ask to speak to MM as AS does not know what is going on and only MM does???? That fills me with confidence in the capability of the current leadership and no I am not one of the 3 blind mice so give that one a rest.You are right about one thing though and that is that the 3 blind mice were given a deserved pasting but that will be nothing compared to what the 3 stooges will get at the next election unless they become more open and accountable
Just for once, I would like yourself or someone else from the faaa to answer some questions here instead of sidestepping them!!!!
Is it a state secret that cannot be published or are we to have blind faith in whoever leads the union...?
Do you know how to spell hypocrite….You mentioned me posting here with anonymity but you yourself are posting here under a pseudonym and are just as anonymous….....................................It is spelt “ Pegasus747”
Again I suggest you take your own advice on the last line of your post but use a zipper instead if you do not have the ticker as you put it to answer some questions and be CONTRUCTIVE (as you spelt it)!!!
Amazing, you did not answer one question, just slagged away as usual, just like the other faaa reps!!!
I would like to go to a meeting but as the Sydney one’s were when I was away and the last one the day I got back ,it is a bit difficult if you a life and commitments outside of flying.
Why were the meetings not held over a 2 to 3 week gap in Sydney so people on long trips or holidays could attend??? You really only wanted as few as possible crew to go didn’t you!!
You also did not answer my question as to how you know what the minutes were?
Nor did you answer about when the voting slips were being mailed?
Nor did you answer why the faaa does not tell us what they are doing about various issues?
Respect for someone has to be earned and not just given …What is the point of ringing MM, when I have already rung on a number of occasions and had to wait all day for someone to ring back? I like most people have a lot more to do than wait around the phone all day!!
Are you saying that I should call the union office and ask to speak to MM as AS does not know what is going on and only MM does???? That fills me with confidence in the capability of the current leadership and no I am not one of the 3 blind mice so give that one a rest.You are right about one thing though and that is that the 3 blind mice were given a deserved pasting but that will be nothing compared to what the 3 stooges will get at the next election unless they become more open and accountable
Just for once, I would like yourself or someone else from the faaa to answer some questions here instead of sidestepping them!!!!
Is it a state secret that cannot be published or are we to have blind faith in whoever leads the union...?
Do you know how to spell hypocrite….You mentioned me posting here with anonymity but you yourself are posting here under a pseudonym and are just as anonymous….....................................It is spelt “ Pegasus747”
Again I suggest you take your own advice on the last line of your post but use a zipper instead if you do not have the ticker as you put it to answer some questions and be CONTRUCTIVE (as you spelt it)!!!
Last edited by lowerlobe; 15th Sep 2005 at 16:08.
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Funny how AIPA seemed to have the same policy of wanting to keep things under wraps all the time. Most suspect that they (some of the com, not all) are all trying to keep the company happy in return for a cosy management position at the end of their term. They were always busy trying hard to sell a dud deal. What was their motivation for pushing a sale of our conditions? Naturally, the membership became angry.
The election results were out yesterday and what a complete pasting it was for the incumbents. The Aipa Reform Group (ARG) scored a clean sweep, claiming all the 20 available postitions.
At the end of the day, lack of communication with the membership killed the current lot. Only a small percentage can ever attend meetings etc. More communication is needed. Now the militant hard core group is in with a landslide. May be interesting times ahead (definantly lots of changes).
The election results were out yesterday and what a complete pasting it was for the incumbents. The Aipa Reform Group (ARG) scored a clean sweep, claiming all the 20 available postitions.
At the end of the day, lack of communication with the membership killed the current lot. Only a small percentage can ever attend meetings etc. More communication is needed. Now the militant hard core group is in with a landslide. May be interesting times ahead (definantly lots of changes).
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Here is the deal lowerlobe, MM said at the meeting last week in sydney that a comprehensive package of imformations would be sent to all crew, including those that couldnt attend meetings and those that did.
Following that, a postal ballot will be sent to all FAAA members to vote on the NYC dispensation.
The FAAA has indicated that the dispensation will be on a bid period by bid period basis and that either party can terminate it with one bid periods notice.
They also discussed the diagnostics of who is actually bidding for the work and that its becoming a sought after trip . I personally dont like the idea of doing it but i am not afraid of a hard days work.
They also read a report by Drew Dawson the expert on fatigue who used his modelling system to analyse the pattern and the sectors, and i for one wouldnt like Qantas to get its hands on it .
It doesnt matter whether we like what the experts say though, they are either experts or they are not. Basically Drew Dawson said that there were moderate levels of fatigue on the sector. I personally think it will be a hell hard days work but i am not afraid of that in order to ensure job security.
Just look at the perth base if you wanna know what happens when you have someone that can do your work cheaper (AKA Perth Shorthaul). Those guys in LH Perth are being marginalised out of their jobs and potentially could be the 1st long haul base closed.
I dont want that to happen in melb or bris or sydney either. short haul are negotiating their EBA now. It wouldnt take much for them to negitiate changes to their "regional flying clause" and make it a full "international" clause.
Do you think somehow the FAAA International Division can change that now?? The best of our conditions were negotiated while Qantas was a govt owned airline. ever since privitisation we have been gradually eroding some things.
Largely Qantas long haul crew still enjoy the best conditions in australia and that pretty much coz we are heavily unionised and have stuck together as a group.
Lowerlobe, i am sorry if i offended you by being blunt. Its not my personal view about you coz i dont know you. we would probably fly together and get along well and not even know that we have talked on here.
Sadly the majority of crew are not passionate about things like you and the people in here. If that were the case we might even be stronger. Unfortunately i think that crew are divided. Senior, junior, base by base, division by division and overseas based crew.
We or the FAAA or the goverment havent done that. Successive mangements at Qantas have done it by stealth and we now just have to deal with the consequences.
Sadly 60% or more of crew even vote liberal so they support the govt policies.
Its a sad indictment of our society that its become so dog eat dog. If anyone has the "solution" i would be glad to hear it.
In the meantime i am happy with the communication from the FAAA. It's sensible open and honest.
I dont necessarily like what they say always but i trust their motives
Following that, a postal ballot will be sent to all FAAA members to vote on the NYC dispensation.
The FAAA has indicated that the dispensation will be on a bid period by bid period basis and that either party can terminate it with one bid periods notice.
They also discussed the diagnostics of who is actually bidding for the work and that its becoming a sought after trip . I personally dont like the idea of doing it but i am not afraid of a hard days work.
They also read a report by Drew Dawson the expert on fatigue who used his modelling system to analyse the pattern and the sectors, and i for one wouldnt like Qantas to get its hands on it .
It doesnt matter whether we like what the experts say though, they are either experts or they are not. Basically Drew Dawson said that there were moderate levels of fatigue on the sector. I personally think it will be a hell hard days work but i am not afraid of that in order to ensure job security.
Just look at the perth base if you wanna know what happens when you have someone that can do your work cheaper (AKA Perth Shorthaul). Those guys in LH Perth are being marginalised out of their jobs and potentially could be the 1st long haul base closed.
I dont want that to happen in melb or bris or sydney either. short haul are negotiating their EBA now. It wouldnt take much for them to negitiate changes to their "regional flying clause" and make it a full "international" clause.
Do you think somehow the FAAA International Division can change that now?? The best of our conditions were negotiated while Qantas was a govt owned airline. ever since privitisation we have been gradually eroding some things.
Largely Qantas long haul crew still enjoy the best conditions in australia and that pretty much coz we are heavily unionised and have stuck together as a group.
Lowerlobe, i am sorry if i offended you by being blunt. Its not my personal view about you coz i dont know you. we would probably fly together and get along well and not even know that we have talked on here.
Sadly the majority of crew are not passionate about things like you and the people in here. If that were the case we might even be stronger. Unfortunately i think that crew are divided. Senior, junior, base by base, division by division and overseas based crew.
We or the FAAA or the goverment havent done that. Successive mangements at Qantas have done it by stealth and we now just have to deal with the consequences.
Sadly 60% or more of crew even vote liberal so they support the govt policies.
Its a sad indictment of our society that its become so dog eat dog. If anyone has the "solution" i would be glad to hear it.
In the meantime i am happy with the communication from the FAAA. It's sensible open and honest.
I dont necessarily like what they say always but i trust their motives
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I said I was going to vote YES after attending the meetings, well since then I have done the Mother F*&^*% shuttle.
You have to be kidding, with the delays we experienced it was a total nightmare.
I have never been so fatigued!
Starting work at 11PM syd time and finishing at 1930 the next day, you have to be kidding!
Let the kiwis like midnight 63 do them, I would love to see her after the sector.
SOrry changed my mind, voting NO i have done it and hate it, the same opinion from all the crew that did it!
Guardian and Warp, do one and experience the delays we did and then tell me what you think!
INHUMANE is an understatement!
You have to be kidding, with the delays we experienced it was a total nightmare.
I have never been so fatigued!
Starting work at 11PM syd time and finishing at 1930 the next day, you have to be kidding!
Let the kiwis like midnight 63 do them, I would love to see her after the sector.
SOrry changed my mind, voting NO i have done it and hate it, the same opinion from all the crew that did it!
Guardian and Warp, do one and experience the delays we did and then tell me what you think!
INHUMANE is an understatement!
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Crusty Demon….You hit the nail right on the head. I would like the faaa to be far more communicative and more open in its information and dealings between the company and crew
I have not been able to get to a meeting but this is the first I have heard about a “fatigue expert” Drew Dawson... Where did he come from and what does the academic base his fatigue model on?
Anyone who has done a LA knows it is easier said than done to sleep before the call for the jfk sector, so I do not know how on earth he comes up with the idea that there is only moderate level of fatigue on this sector. It sounds as though he was recommended by Qantas!!
It is very convenient for the union to find an expert that backs the company view that there is little fatigue as opposed to crew I have met that have done the shuttle!!
So surprise,surprise…the faaa tells us that there is no alternative but to give dispensation with the ever present bogeyman of losing jobs they have even sweetened the deal by stating it is roster by roster. I do not like the idea of giving dispensation even on a temporary basis to the company. It is a bit like giving Jack the ripper a penknife and saying he is only going to cut some fruit for lunch. If we give the company even a hint of something, they will push it as far as they can go. I have heard from crew at the meeting the company wants to increase the limit from 17 hours to 18 hours fro multi sector flying…. Does this give us an idea of the direction the company is looking at?
Pegasus747, I am afraid I do not share you faith in the faaa after my conversations with them and observations of them.
I have not been able to get to a meeting but this is the first I have heard about a “fatigue expert” Drew Dawson... Where did he come from and what does the academic base his fatigue model on?
Anyone who has done a LA knows it is easier said than done to sleep before the call for the jfk sector, so I do not know how on earth he comes up with the idea that there is only moderate level of fatigue on this sector. It sounds as though he was recommended by Qantas!!
It is very convenient for the union to find an expert that backs the company view that there is little fatigue as opposed to crew I have met that have done the shuttle!!
So surprise,surprise…the faaa tells us that there is no alternative but to give dispensation with the ever present bogeyman of losing jobs they have even sweetened the deal by stating it is roster by roster. I do not like the idea of giving dispensation even on a temporary basis to the company. It is a bit like giving Jack the ripper a penknife and saying he is only going to cut some fruit for lunch. If we give the company even a hint of something, they will push it as far as they can go. I have heard from crew at the meeting the company wants to increase the limit from 17 hours to 18 hours fro multi sector flying…. Does this give us an idea of the direction the company is looking at?
Pegasus747, I am afraid I do not share you faith in the faaa after my conversations with them and observations of them.
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QCC departures
B A Lert,
As mentioned in previous posts, there is total anarchy amongst our beloved Visitors. They are fighting , bitching and totally p---sed off with the constant barrage from the empathetic Long haul crew.
My sources tell me -1 left today, more are walking asap. They've had enough of the lies and crap that they have to dish out!!!!!
As mentioned in previous posts, there is total anarchy amongst our beloved Visitors. They are fighting , bitching and totally p---sed off with the constant barrage from the empathetic Long haul crew.
My sources tell me -1 left today, more are walking asap. They've had enough of the lies and crap that they have to dish out!!!!!
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The visitors......
Well my info is that one or two in particular are getting harrassment cases taken against them by crew on a regular basis and are close to being punted
One who has a striking resemblance to a female version of Lurch the butler in the Adams Family is the main protagonist it seems....
even getting offside with the BOS people who are the only ones out there that have a clue about anything.
The Kiwi terrorist is getting well above his station in life and is drawing far too much attention to himself my senior management who dont like the little upstarts over the top approach
stay tuned...quite a few to leave over the next few months i think
Well my info is that one or two in particular are getting harrassment cases taken against them by crew on a regular basis and are close to being punted
One who has a striking resemblance to a female version of Lurch the butler in the Adams Family is the main protagonist it seems....
even getting offside with the BOS people who are the only ones out there that have a clue about anything.
The Kiwi terrorist is getting well above his station in life and is drawing far too much attention to himself my senior management who dont like the little upstarts over the top approach
stay tuned...quite a few to leave over the next few months i think
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Apparently according to the "experts" aka Geoff Bridge from oh&S and Guy Maclean the guy who used to do all the regulatory work , Drew Dawson from Adelaide University is one of the leading experts used by the unions over many years.
he is currently working with the Pilots on a fatigue program there. Seems to me that the work is just going to be hard and gettinng harder..
Dont know what the answer is, The FAAA said at the meeting that if the tour of duty was unsafe they would think that the regulatory bodies in the USA would stop it from happening and then neither the Kiwis or us could do it.
The FAAA meeting also has the hours limitations and an email containing details of what the American Flight attendants can do and in their contract they could do it with only 12hours off afterwards and that it could be reduced to 10 hours.
It seems to me that i just have a lot of feelings and views about all this like everyone else. I trust the the FAAA have done their homework on all this . They were very professional and open meetings. MM said that they were prepared to stay as long as crew wanted to answer any and all questions and thats what happened.
What appalled most of us at the meeting i attended was that their was only about 30 people there. on any day there would have to be a couple of thousand crew at home.....
i think we in here are the only ones really worked up about it
he is currently working with the Pilots on a fatigue program there. Seems to me that the work is just going to be hard and gettinng harder..
Dont know what the answer is, The FAAA said at the meeting that if the tour of duty was unsafe they would think that the regulatory bodies in the USA would stop it from happening and then neither the Kiwis or us could do it.
The FAAA meeting also has the hours limitations and an email containing details of what the American Flight attendants can do and in their contract they could do it with only 12hours off afterwards and that it could be reduced to 10 hours.
It seems to me that i just have a lot of feelings and views about all this like everyone else. I trust the the FAAA have done their homework on all this . They were very professional and open meetings. MM said that they were prepared to stay as long as crew wanted to answer any and all questions and thats what happened.
What appalled most of us at the meeting i attended was that their was only about 30 people there. on any day there would have to be a couple of thousand crew at home.....
i think we in here are the only ones really worked up about it
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Pegasus747,
I agree that there is always a level of apathy in crew and that they expect things just to happen in their favor.
My point with the faaa about communication is that they are carrying out negotiations without any attempt to let us know what is occurring.
It was nearly 2 months before there was any information regarding the outcome of the AO EBA vote .This is an important event that has repercussions for us yet no feedback from the faaa. The result was given to us from the faaa on the 4th August yet the vote was finished on the 29th June.
It is now 9 days since the first meeting at the new union office and not a thing either by email or notice posted on the faaa website regarding new developments.
All of a sudden from Pegasus747, not the faaa we hear about a fatigue expert Drew Dawson .Apparently, he has been asked to prepare some information regarding fatigue but again nothing at all from the faaa .This is not some war where the faaa is an intelligence agency and it’s workings secret, it is a group of elected people that are supposed to represent us and let us know events as they unfold, not information they choose to give us piecemeal after the event, no wonder you only get 30 crew attending.
As Crusty Demon posted, the techies union has been changed at their elections because there has been the impression that the elected officials had their own agenda .As with the techies union basically every union head has gone on to become a management pilot, so too have a number of faaa officials become csm’s.
I would also like to know why there is the facility to guard information on the faaa website from prying eyes via your staff number and password but anyone can access our newsletters and other info? It should be like the techies website where you cannot access info unless you log in.
As I said earlier I could not attend a meeting in Sydney because of the space between meetings, why were they not held over a 3 week period not 8 days?
I agree that there is always a level of apathy in crew and that they expect things just to happen in their favor.
My point with the faaa about communication is that they are carrying out negotiations without any attempt to let us know what is occurring.
It was nearly 2 months before there was any information regarding the outcome of the AO EBA vote .This is an important event that has repercussions for us yet no feedback from the faaa. The result was given to us from the faaa on the 4th August yet the vote was finished on the 29th June.
It is now 9 days since the first meeting at the new union office and not a thing either by email or notice posted on the faaa website regarding new developments.
All of a sudden from Pegasus747, not the faaa we hear about a fatigue expert Drew Dawson .Apparently, he has been asked to prepare some information regarding fatigue but again nothing at all from the faaa .This is not some war where the faaa is an intelligence agency and it’s workings secret, it is a group of elected people that are supposed to represent us and let us know events as they unfold, not information they choose to give us piecemeal after the event, no wonder you only get 30 crew attending.
As Crusty Demon posted, the techies union has been changed at their elections because there has been the impression that the elected officials had their own agenda .As with the techies union basically every union head has gone on to become a management pilot, so too have a number of faaa officials become csm’s.
I would also like to know why there is the facility to guard information on the faaa website from prying eyes via your staff number and password but anyone can access our newsletters and other info? It should be like the techies website where you cannot access info unless you log in.
As I said earlier I could not attend a meeting in Sydney because of the space between meetings, why were they not held over a 3 week period not 8 days?
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Lowerlobe
The AO issue was clearly discussed at the FAAA meeting and for anyone that was interested in it the explanation is a simple one.
Qantas Flight Attendants have no input into the AO EBA as it is negiotiated by their AO officials. Whether it would have been nice to know what was the result of their EBA or not is an interesting point, but given that we as Qantas flight attendant have no say in it , it would only be for information purposes only and i thought all that information was on the FAAA website anyways.
Certainly given that any other airline in the Qantas group having conditions worse than our put additional pressure on Long Haul is a very concerning factor for us. The trouble is we as QF LH have no control over what they negotiate because they as a group vote on their EBA's just as we do.
Certainly the FAAA Industrial Officers and lawyers point out the pitfall and significant issues to the AO reps but enevitably the AO reps do the negotiations and the AO F/A's are the ones that vote it up or down.
The trouble with FAAA communication is a simple one in my view. They have sent out about 100 detailed newsletters this year alone on a range of issues and i think that the majority of crew dont read them anyways or dont understand or care about the issues. They are glad someone else is looking after it.
On the other hand their are a smaller group in the LH f/a's who read forums like this and are interested in the niity gritty and the detail and are prepared to wade through it all and debate it. Tragically we would be less than 5% of members.
I log on in most slip ports and at home and read this fourm and the FAAA website and talk to crew, i think i like you lowerlobe are in the minority.
Perhpas we coould convince the FAAA to have more regular meetings in the new offices where people can discuss concerns and talk more regularly to the officials.
I talk to a couple of them often because i do London trip and one of the senior officials does them all the time and i think that i have a good idea what is going on.
We are in a pretty ****ty position at the moment because unlike in the past where LH had a monopoly on the Qantas work, management can pick and choose who they give the work to. Jetstar, SH/LH Australian Airlines. AKL base, BKK base, LHR base.
This is not the fault of the FAAA now or the members either its just a reality and we have to deal with it. If the answer was a simple one i am sure i would be hearing the same solution from everyone.
What is suggest is that people start emailing the FAAA and asking that newsletters be put out on very specific questions that we have and that way everyone gets the answers and not just the 20 or 30 in here who give a stuff.
trouble is most people wouldnt read it anyways...sometimes i wonder why we even bother talking about it in here...we know that most crew are more concerned with their next shopping trip etc....
The AO issue was clearly discussed at the FAAA meeting and for anyone that was interested in it the explanation is a simple one.
Qantas Flight Attendants have no input into the AO EBA as it is negiotiated by their AO officials. Whether it would have been nice to know what was the result of their EBA or not is an interesting point, but given that we as Qantas flight attendant have no say in it , it would only be for information purposes only and i thought all that information was on the FAAA website anyways.
Certainly given that any other airline in the Qantas group having conditions worse than our put additional pressure on Long Haul is a very concerning factor for us. The trouble is we as QF LH have no control over what they negotiate because they as a group vote on their EBA's just as we do.
Certainly the FAAA Industrial Officers and lawyers point out the pitfall and significant issues to the AO reps but enevitably the AO reps do the negotiations and the AO F/A's are the ones that vote it up or down.
The trouble with FAAA communication is a simple one in my view. They have sent out about 100 detailed newsletters this year alone on a range of issues and i think that the majority of crew dont read them anyways or dont understand or care about the issues. They are glad someone else is looking after it.
On the other hand their are a smaller group in the LH f/a's who read forums like this and are interested in the niity gritty and the detail and are prepared to wade through it all and debate it. Tragically we would be less than 5% of members.
I log on in most slip ports and at home and read this fourm and the FAAA website and talk to crew, i think i like you lowerlobe are in the minority.
Perhpas we coould convince the FAAA to have more regular meetings in the new offices where people can discuss concerns and talk more regularly to the officials.
I talk to a couple of them often because i do London trip and one of the senior officials does them all the time and i think that i have a good idea what is going on.
We are in a pretty ****ty position at the moment because unlike in the past where LH had a monopoly on the Qantas work, management can pick and choose who they give the work to. Jetstar, SH/LH Australian Airlines. AKL base, BKK base, LHR base.
This is not the fault of the FAAA now or the members either its just a reality and we have to deal with it. If the answer was a simple one i am sure i would be hearing the same solution from everyone.
What is suggest is that people start emailing the FAAA and asking that newsletters be put out on very specific questions that we have and that way everyone gets the answers and not just the 20 or 30 in here who give a stuff.
trouble is most people wouldnt read it anyways...sometimes i wonder why we even bother talking about it in here...we know that most crew are more concerned with their next shopping trip etc....
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I have been reading some of the comments here with great amusement!
Firstly do the LAX JFK LAX sector with delays and then you can make a comment.
This fatigue "expert" has no idea, how can anyone state that working from 11pm Home time to 1900 the next day does not have serious fatigue, not to mention that no one got adequate sleep.Expert my @rse! the experts also told us vioxx was safe that asbestos was the miracle material, in the 60's doctors told people to have a few cigarettes a day to calm their nerves.
So are we going to believe the experts! let them try it first!
I have been to the meetings and I was in favour of voting yes ! but not now, I simply dont want that kind of flying, let the kiwis do them, they wont last, sick leave will go through the roof, send me to JNB, its better! far out I never thought I would have said that!
And as far as contacting MM at the union, what a joke, everytime I ring I get the standard " they ar in a meeting" someone will call you back!
MM and AS do one of the shuttles and then tell me what you think, tell me that "its ok, its only and extra hour"
Come on do one, and then you can tell us from "experience"
Firstly do the LAX JFK LAX sector with delays and then you can make a comment.
This fatigue "expert" has no idea, how can anyone state that working from 11pm Home time to 1900 the next day does not have serious fatigue, not to mention that no one got adequate sleep.Expert my @rse! the experts also told us vioxx was safe that asbestos was the miracle material, in the 60's doctors told people to have a few cigarettes a day to calm their nerves.
So are we going to believe the experts! let them try it first!
I have been to the meetings and I was in favour of voting yes ! but not now, I simply dont want that kind of flying, let the kiwis do them, they wont last, sick leave will go through the roof, send me to JNB, its better! far out I never thought I would have said that!
And as far as contacting MM at the union, what a joke, everytime I ring I get the standard " they ar in a meeting" someone will call you back!
MM and AS do one of the shuttles and then tell me what you think, tell me that "its ok, its only and extra hour"
Come on do one, and then you can tell us from "experience"
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this is the first I have heard about a “fatigue expert” Drew Dawson... Where did he come from and what does the academic base his fatigue model on?
You may read more about him and his teams work here...
http://www.unisa.edu.au/sleep/
Perhaps if you find yourself in ADL one day, you may wish to drop into the university and speak with them about their work. Have a good day.
Last edited by flugenluft; 17th Sep 2005 at 00:47.