Bali Verdict
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To all those folks that want to support Ms Corby, put action into your words, why dont you give your travel beneficiary to the family, Well ! they can then travel and see her whenever they want!.
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That was an extremely intelligent suggestion from Mr Toad and one wonders why that action was not taken earlier (or maybe it was?)
It's the same in the UK. As soon as a UK (or Australian) citizen is arrested for some crime in a third world country the automatic assumpion of the Press and public seems to be that they are automatically innocent!
Can the Aussies on this site confirm that they expect the Australian Govt (and Taxpayer) to fund first class, expensive, lawyers for the defence of every one of their Citizens who is charged with a serious offence overseas?
I doubt it.
Maybe the girl is innocent. Whatever, it's still a pretty ott sentence by any country's standards.
It's the same in the UK. As soon as a UK (or Australian) citizen is arrested for some crime in a third world country the automatic assumpion of the Press and public seems to be that they are automatically innocent!
Can the Aussies on this site confirm that they expect the Australian Govt (and Taxpayer) to fund first class, expensive, lawyers for the defence of every one of their Citizens who is charged with a serious offence overseas?
I doubt it.
Maybe the girl is innocent. Whatever, it's still a pretty ott sentence by any country's standards.
Mr Toad... A good thought, but not necessarily possible wrt the weight issue.
My experience with checkin, you generally enter the number of bags and a combined weight of all her luggage.
e.g. 03/045 = 3 bags, combined total weight of 45kg.
So, unless she went with just a boogie board, theres not much hope of getting any accuracy out of it.. You would also have to assume the scales at the check in counter were properly reset to zero, and that the adding up skills of the person checking in or the bodgy calculator attached to the scales was being used correctly... Know of one girl who mistakenly put in 4 bags with a total combined weight of over 900kg.
I dont think shes that pretty - and I dont just think she should be given more attention. I think that any aussie in a prison overseas, ESPECIALLY those facing life sentences or death, should be given more support. While i think CH9 did the wrong thing morally, Im glad it has brought to light the issues faced by people in such positions.
I respect the laws of other countries, and yes, the govt does advertise to make travellers aware eg smarttraveller.gov.au - but I still think more support should be given.
I hope schapelle gets home - I feel for her, so many lost opportunities in life - and now she faces 20 years of hell.
I will support however i can - and as wrong as the boycott is, I am going to support it. Also, bashirs 3 years - a complete joke - one rule for one and another for everyone else.
My experience with checkin, you generally enter the number of bags and a combined weight of all her luggage.
e.g. 03/045 = 3 bags, combined total weight of 45kg.
So, unless she went with just a boogie board, theres not much hope of getting any accuracy out of it.. You would also have to assume the scales at the check in counter were properly reset to zero, and that the adding up skills of the person checking in or the bodgy calculator attached to the scales was being used correctly... Know of one girl who mistakenly put in 4 bags with a total combined weight of over 900kg.
I dont think shes that pretty - and I dont just think she should be given more attention. I think that any aussie in a prison overseas, ESPECIALLY those facing life sentences or death, should be given more support. While i think CH9 did the wrong thing morally, Im glad it has brought to light the issues faced by people in such positions.
I respect the laws of other countries, and yes, the govt does advertise to make travellers aware eg smarttraveller.gov.au - but I still think more support should be given.
I hope schapelle gets home - I feel for her, so many lost opportunities in life - and now she faces 20 years of hell.
I will support however i can - and as wrong as the boycott is, I am going to support it. Also, bashirs 3 years - a complete joke - one rule for one and another for everyone else.
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However if the Australian Government had taken steps to ensure first class representation for her in the first case it might have turned out better and there would be no need for Howard's embarrassing hand-wringing after the verdict.
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the innocent will always loose
i watched from far away the verdict beaing read out. i almost cried and broke down just because i watched the surroundings of the court room and it brought back so many memories of the bali bombings.
a few people have said "but what about the poor balinese who earn so little'...but what about the poor us. yes, you and me who travel to indonesia.
i just want to say that i will be staying away and will from now on advise all australians to stay away from bali and indonesia.
why go on about those poor balinese when its us who suffer. after the bali bombings, people said we should not punish inoccent balinese and return there. the hard reality is its all driven by money.
well, im not going to punish anyone, but i want to look after myself and urge other felllow aussies to put yourself first now and do the same.
if the poor balinese are suffering then their society should do more to protect their own.
is there any social security in indonesia? the answer is no.
under islam there is a system of helping the needy called zakat. the income earners are supposed to donate a percentage of their salary to help the poor. yes bali is hindu - but its still part of indonesia.
seems to me that western countries with a dole system are more geared to helping the needy.
my point is dont feel guilty that you may harm the indo tourist industry if you now make a point of never going there again and tell your friends the same.
a few people have said "but what about the poor balinese who earn so little'...but what about the poor us. yes, you and me who travel to indonesia.
i just want to say that i will be staying away and will from now on advise all australians to stay away from bali and indonesia.
why go on about those poor balinese when its us who suffer. after the bali bombings, people said we should not punish inoccent balinese and return there. the hard reality is its all driven by money.
well, im not going to punish anyone, but i want to look after myself and urge other felllow aussies to put yourself first now and do the same.
if the poor balinese are suffering then their society should do more to protect their own.
is there any social security in indonesia? the answer is no.
under islam there is a system of helping the needy called zakat. the income earners are supposed to donate a percentage of their salary to help the poor. yes bali is hindu - but its still part of indonesia.
seems to me that western countries with a dole system are more geared to helping the needy.
my point is dont feel guilty that you may harm the indo tourist industry if you now make a point of never going there again and tell your friends the same.
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All I have to say is that I will NEVER set foot on Indonesian soil again. Totally disgusted. They never even heard her case properly, the judges had their minds made up and it didn't matter what evidence they had to prove that she didn't do it.
They've ruined a young girls life, just taken it away from her without a care in the world. When I heard the verdict I cried for that poor girl...NEVER will I go to Indonesia again...NEVER!!!!
They've ruined a young girls life, just taken it away from her without a care in the world. When I heard the verdict I cried for that poor girl...NEVER will I go to Indonesia again...NEVER!!!!
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1. I am not defending the Indonesian legal system.
2. Please understand that we do not have all of the facts.
3. The media hype is more than responsible for the highly emotive responses from most ordinary folk
4. Attacks on the individual judge who handed down the verdict against Schappelle are of absolutely no benefit, and certainly won't do her cause any good.
5. Claiming to boycott Bali isn't really going to achieve too much either.
The fact is, she has been sentenced. There may or may not be an appeal, (my money is on one being lodged) but if there is, it will further delay her being deported home to serve her remaining sentence. I believe that she will be brought home most likely within 3-5 years or so, and will serve another chunk of her sentence here. After she is home, the government will begin lobbying the Indonesian royal family seeking mercy/leniency/pardon and Schappelle could be released well within the 20years if one is granted.
Nothing about this entire episode save the non pronouncement of the death sentence is worthy of the media hype. Nothing could have been done differently by the Indonesian judiciary BECAUSE IT WAS SO VERY MUCH UNDER INTENSE SCRUTINY OF THE AU GOVERMENT AND MEDIA OUTLETS.
The decision in your opinion may be unjust, but that is your opinion which has been arrived at without the benefit of the full facts being revealed. Thats facts, not the media blurb being dished out, which would have been culled to fit a time frame based on advertising or other news items to be broadcast.
She's a lucky girl not to be facing a bullet, considering how strongly the asian communities feel about drugs and the couriers' of it.
2. Please understand that we do not have all of the facts.
3. The media hype is more than responsible for the highly emotive responses from most ordinary folk
4. Attacks on the individual judge who handed down the verdict against Schappelle are of absolutely no benefit, and certainly won't do her cause any good.
5. Claiming to boycott Bali isn't really going to achieve too much either.
The fact is, she has been sentenced. There may or may not be an appeal, (my money is on one being lodged) but if there is, it will further delay her being deported home to serve her remaining sentence. I believe that she will be brought home most likely within 3-5 years or so, and will serve another chunk of her sentence here. After she is home, the government will begin lobbying the Indonesian royal family seeking mercy/leniency/pardon and Schappelle could be released well within the 20years if one is granted.
Nothing about this entire episode save the non pronouncement of the death sentence is worthy of the media hype. Nothing could have been done differently by the Indonesian judiciary BECAUSE IT WAS SO VERY MUCH UNDER INTENSE SCRUTINY OF THE AU GOVERMENT AND MEDIA OUTLETS.
The decision in your opinion may be unjust, but that is your opinion which has been arrived at without the benefit of the full facts being revealed. Thats facts, not the media blurb being dished out, which would have been culled to fit a time frame based on advertising or other news items to be broadcast.
She's a lucky girl not to be facing a bullet, considering how strongly the asian communities feel about drugs and the couriers' of it.
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The Voice has encapsulated all of my own opinions on this subject.
What I'd like to add is that it is extremely inappropriate for cabin crew to be voicing their political opinions to passengers. At Qantas (and I assume this is true of all the world's carriers), it is also a breach of the code of conduct to be telling passengers to boycott a particular country.
What I'd like to add is that it is extremely inappropriate for cabin crew to be voicing their political opinions to passengers. At Qantas (and I assume this is true of all the world's carriers), it is also a breach of the code of conduct to be telling passengers to boycott a particular country.
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support boycott
as a regular longhauler in cattle class i also going to recommend to every aussie to do what is best. fly past bali to other more safe and less corrupt destinations. for those of you who feel for the people of bali i have on suggestion. let them know to clean up their act. having their head in the sand and accepting corruption as a way of life is no excuse.
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HAWK
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Thanks for the info about the QC's offered by the Government; I stand corrected on this point, my apologies.
I wonder why her family turned the offer down? I'm certain they would have left no stone unturned in Australia to get to the root of the matter.
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Thanks for the info about the QC's offered by the Government; I stand corrected on this point, my apologies.
I wonder why her family turned the offer down? I'm certain they would have left no stone unturned in Australia to get to the root of the matter.
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The reason so many people have their heads in the sand is that they are poor and uneducated. How is a 36 year old woman who has sold handy crafts for the past 20 years, and didn't finish primary school, supposed to stand up to her government.
If you plan to boycott Indonesia, then please add the following countries to your list:
China, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Mexico, Cuba, Guatemala, El Salvador, Venezuela, India, THE CONTINENT OF AFRICA ....... and pretty much every other developing country. They all have notorious reputations for corruption, and human rights violations.
The majority of these people will never be able to afford the luxury of getting on an airplane, let alone a holiday in another country. Most of them do what ever they can to survive.
A big part of the problem is countries like the USA, UK, France and Australia, both now and in the past. Sucking other countries dry of their labor and natural resources.
This is a bit like an employee of Air New Zealand blaming an Ansett employee for the demise of Ansett.
It is the moral and ethical responsibilities to help our neighbours without teling them ho to run their lives. I commend the Aust Govt for it's commitment in East Timor, and more recently Aceh.
Have you ever thought of joining an human rights group which works in Indonesia. Instead of being negative, do positive things with your life.
And once again: What you say to your friends and family and on this mssage board is your business. But don't force your opinion on others.
A long metal tube hurtling through the air at 900 km/h is not the place to air your pesonal beliefs. You are their to look after your passengers. Bite your tongue and say "Coffee for you Sir?"
If you plan to boycott Indonesia, then please add the following countries to your list:
China, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Mexico, Cuba, Guatemala, El Salvador, Venezuela, India, THE CONTINENT OF AFRICA ....... and pretty much every other developing country. They all have notorious reputations for corruption, and human rights violations.
The majority of these people will never be able to afford the luxury of getting on an airplane, let alone a holiday in another country. Most of them do what ever they can to survive.
A big part of the problem is countries like the USA, UK, France and Australia, both now and in the past. Sucking other countries dry of their labor and natural resources.
This is a bit like an employee of Air New Zealand blaming an Ansett employee for the demise of Ansett.
It is the moral and ethical responsibilities to help our neighbours without teling them ho to run their lives. I commend the Aust Govt for it's commitment in East Timor, and more recently Aceh.
Have you ever thought of joining an human rights group which works in Indonesia. Instead of being negative, do positive things with your life.
And once again: What you say to your friends and family and on this mssage board is your business. But don't force your opinion on others.
A long metal tube hurtling through the air at 900 km/h is not the place to air your pesonal beliefs. You are their to look after your passengers. Bite your tongue and say "Coffee for you Sir?"
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The Governor General's Input
Good to see Major Gen Michael Jeffrey has the courage to express an opinion and approach the Indonesian President directly.
After seeing this shockingly unfair and unjust verdict from the Indon legal system, it will be a cold day in HELL before I or any of my family set foot in Bali or Indonesia on vacation again. No one should ever haphazard their liberty by venturing anywhere in Indonesia in a tourist capacity. I'd also ruminate deeply about doing business with Indons. I have a mate who got deeply involved in a business venture there and got very short shrift from the Indon legal system. There is no real justice to be had. He was swindled and their system just laughed at him.
I'm not saying that the people should not be helped. I won't be asking for our Tsunami contribution back. However as a tourist destination it should now be declared dead. Only the great unwashed keep going back there anyway. There are worthier destinations without the now proven risk of being subjected to a very primitive justice in a quite arrogantly simplistic legal system.
After seeing this shockingly unfair and unjust verdict from the Indon legal system, it will be a cold day in HELL before I or any of my family set foot in Bali or Indonesia on vacation again. No one should ever haphazard their liberty by venturing anywhere in Indonesia in a tourist capacity. I'd also ruminate deeply about doing business with Indons. I have a mate who got deeply involved in a business venture there and got very short shrift from the Indon legal system. There is no real justice to be had. He was swindled and their system just laughed at him.
I'm not saying that the people should not be helped. I won't be asking for our Tsunami contribution back. However as a tourist destination it should now be declared dead. Only the great unwashed keep going back there anyway. There are worthier destinations without the now proven risk of being subjected to a very primitive justice in a quite arrogantly simplistic legal system.
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Journalists who are delegated to follow a particular case have the benefit of being privy to the evidence presented in court during the course of a trial.
I was interested in a comment expressed on a national news program yesterday during a 'chat' session amongst the three journalists in the studio. One of those on the TV show indicated that he had asked some of the other journalists covering the story in Bali what their opinion was. The opinion was, considering the evidence provided, guilty.
One thing seems fairly certain. The media hype has presented a biased view of this episode thus far, something that should not surprise those of us in the aviation community.
None of us are fully briefed on the evidence provided. Whilst opinions may be expressed, we should remain open enough to consider that she may, in fact, be guilty.
Boycotting travel to Bali will only hurt the Balinese themselves. It will not bring about a change in judicial process. That's something that should be left to diplomatic channels, if at all.
I was interested in a comment expressed on a national news program yesterday during a 'chat' session amongst the three journalists in the studio. One of those on the TV show indicated that he had asked some of the other journalists covering the story in Bali what their opinion was. The opinion was, considering the evidence provided, guilty.
One thing seems fairly certain. The media hype has presented a biased view of this episode thus far, something that should not surprise those of us in the aviation community.
None of us are fully briefed on the evidence provided. Whilst opinions may be expressed, we should remain open enough to consider that she may, in fact, be guilty.
Boycotting travel to Bali will only hurt the Balinese themselves. It will not bring about a change in judicial process. That's something that should be left to diplomatic channels, if at all.
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it's all the fault of the MEDIA
Cartexchange et al ...
So "it's all the fault of the media" ... and the "media has outdone itself this time" ... and worse - "the media is dominated by men, who were just there for a freebie and a perve ..."
All I can say is ... turn into Donkeys... and get onto yourselves ....
The media is damned if it does -- and damned if it doesn't.
You b*tch about Indonesia, its system and the oppression there .. well, hello ...we have a free press, a free media in this country - and you should be damned well glad ...
Yep sure, there are those at the lower end (read tabloid) of the media who sensationalise ... but you know who they are - so don't watch, read or listen to them, if you want fair, balanced reports.
I suspect you - and your union use the media when it's convenient to get your message across ...
And please don't anyone start bleating about how those in the aviation industry are treated by journalists (please see my posting "media request").
Remember ... don't shoot the messenger ...
Sorry... but you just can't have it both ways ...
So "it's all the fault of the media" ... and the "media has outdone itself this time" ... and worse - "the media is dominated by men, who were just there for a freebie and a perve ..."
All I can say is ... turn into Donkeys... and get onto yourselves ....
The media is damned if it does -- and damned if it doesn't.
You b*tch about Indonesia, its system and the oppression there .. well, hello ...we have a free press, a free media in this country - and you should be damned well glad ...
Yep sure, there are those at the lower end (read tabloid) of the media who sensationalise ... but you know who they are - so don't watch, read or listen to them, if you want fair, balanced reports.
I suspect you - and your union use the media when it's convenient to get your message across ...
And please don't anyone start bleating about how those in the aviation industry are treated by journalists (please see my posting "media request").
Remember ... don't shoot the messenger ...
Sorry... but you just can't have it both ways ...
Last edited by eyeonthesky; 29th May 2005 at 14:54.
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flyby
just hurdled north at 900 km/h in an aluminium tube past that island of late fame and getting some very interesting comments from the traveling public. as engaged employee conversing with my passengers it has produced some outstanding results. several punters had their bags wrapped at the airport, not to mention every handbag, toilet bag and any other checked or carry on is now well and truly sealed. just a few extra keys added to the money belt which gives security at the airports some extra work. nothing like a bit of fear going around. And as for the island down below as I said before, its good to have enough juice in the tube to keep going. not one punter disagreed.
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risk or not?
the post is not about guilty or innocent or having a consciene re hurting the balinese financially if we choose not to go.
its about "is there a risk going to indonesia".
quite clearly there is and again, think about it carefully - look at history.
its about "is there a risk going to indonesia".
quite clearly there is and again, think about it carefully - look at history.
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Why is everybody so sure she is not guilty
I've tried to keep a open mind untill I spoke with a NSW Drug squad Detective last week BKK/LHR.
Seems police circles who have been very quiet for the reason there is continuing investigations in Aus going on. There is a link to a well known Bali resident who dabbles in Pot in Bali as hash is the only smoke available in Bali and has a market amoungst tourists and expats.
Qld detectives believe it wasn't the first trip but no proof of other carry ins could be made public.
Boogie Board and cover weight approx 2.2kg, add another 4.4kg and you think you wouldn't notice, first weight and then look, plastic bag brought exclusively to fit the the boogie board cover
size, then you would carry it through customs knowing it was very differant from when you left home ???
The last chapter is yet to make itself known, but I think it's not too far away.
Mick Kelty Aus Fed Police boss hit the nail on the head when he quoted the evidence was "overwelming" and got a public lashing for his truthful statement.
Seems police circles who have been very quiet for the reason there is continuing investigations in Aus going on. There is a link to a well known Bali resident who dabbles in Pot in Bali as hash is the only smoke available in Bali and has a market amoungst tourists and expats.
Qld detectives believe it wasn't the first trip but no proof of other carry ins could be made public.
Boogie Board and cover weight approx 2.2kg, add another 4.4kg and you think you wouldn't notice, first weight and then look, plastic bag brought exclusively to fit the the boogie board cover
size, then you would carry it through customs knowing it was very differant from when you left home ???
The last chapter is yet to make itself known, but I think it's not too far away.
Mick Kelty Aus Fed Police boss hit the nail on the head when he quoted the evidence was "overwelming" and got a public lashing for his truthful statement.
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no freebies for me
"F" Module ... thanks for your honest and forthright post ...
Alas, I do remember cash for comment ... and have no fear, I won't be offered any of the inducements you refer to.
You see, I am just a working hack, not a star, not one of the glitteratti or a shock jock - but someone who actually sees his job as reporting the facts - not the shock-horror "passengers in terror" type stories.
Even if I was offered a freebie by an airline, I couldn't accept it ... you see, I'd lose my job - I work for the national broadcaster - and quite frankly it would be unethical (yes, some of us still abide by them) - and more importantly I wouldn't want to risk my super or my job security at my age (45 BTW)
I realise the story is all there to be read in the IR related posts - see my post "media request". I need living, breathing bods to talk to me -- with a total guarantee of anonimity and in strict confidentiality.
Thankfully a couple of retired QF people have already offered - and I'll take them up on it - but I need a few current employees to round out the picture.
BTW - it won't be a "let's bash Qantas" yarn either. Both sides will get their say.
all the best ... Eye.
Alas, I do remember cash for comment ... and have no fear, I won't be offered any of the inducements you refer to.
You see, I am just a working hack, not a star, not one of the glitteratti or a shock jock - but someone who actually sees his job as reporting the facts - not the shock-horror "passengers in terror" type stories.
Even if I was offered a freebie by an airline, I couldn't accept it ... you see, I'd lose my job - I work for the national broadcaster - and quite frankly it would be unethical (yes, some of us still abide by them) - and more importantly I wouldn't want to risk my super or my job security at my age (45 BTW)
I realise the story is all there to be read in the IR related posts - see my post "media request". I need living, breathing bods to talk to me -- with a total guarantee of anonimity and in strict confidentiality.
Thankfully a couple of retired QF people have already offered - and I'll take them up on it - but I need a few current employees to round out the picture.
BTW - it won't be a "let's bash Qantas" yarn either. Both sides will get their say.
all the best ... Eye.