Eastern Australia Airlines
Join Date: Nov 2003
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just to clarify a few things,
EAA wanted more people than 3 people but QF only allowed 3 as once we stop flying to Ballina and get rid of TQO we will be fine for numbers.
for those of you waiting for a call up be patient as a progression school will be going across to QF before DEC 05. meaning 10 people will be recieving a phone call in the next couple of months.
good luck to those waiting.
EAA wanted more people than 3 people but QF only allowed 3 as once we stop flying to Ballina and get rid of TQO we will be fine for numbers.
for those of you waiting for a call up be patient as a progression school will be going across to QF before DEC 05. meaning 10 people will be recieving a phone call in the next couple of months.
good luck to those waiting.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Isnt TQO already out of service? Ballina is going but additional services to Canberra, Dubbo and Port Macquaire more than make up for the loss of this route not to mention the new Wollonggong services. Add to this the fact that more than 3 girls are soon to stop flying due to being pregnant, another recently stoped earlier than expected.
Sunday was an absolute debacle and if we had the 3 new crew available on Sunday there still would have been flight cancellations due to lack of flight attendants.
Crew are being asked to give back annual leave for the months of August/September. I understand that EAA hands are tied and these decisions are made by QF so lets hope QF realise the situation is that bad that flights are now being cancelled.
As for career progression do you know something the company and faaa dont? According to both no information is available as Qantas and the FAAA have not even met as yet to discuss the "time frame and process". Let us know what you know, please put us out of the misery? Have heard strong rumours from cc management that it maybe more than 10 but certainly a minimum of 10. Under the agreement QF are under no obligation to take us until 1 July, 2006 although as we know it always seems to happen within a few months once the external's are made permanent.
Sunday was an absolute debacle and if we had the 3 new crew available on Sunday there still would have been flight cancellations due to lack of flight attendants.
Crew are being asked to give back annual leave for the months of August/September. I understand that EAA hands are tied and these decisions are made by QF so lets hope QF realise the situation is that bad that flights are now being cancelled.
As for career progression do you know something the company and faaa dont? According to both no information is available as Qantas and the FAAA have not even met as yet to discuss the "time frame and process". Let us know what you know, please put us out of the misery? Have heard strong rumours from cc management that it maybe more than 10 but certainly a minimum of 10. Under the agreement QF are under no obligation to take us until 1 July, 2006 although as we know it always seems to happen within a few months once the external's are made permanent.
Join Date: Nov 2003
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i am sooooooo sorry i personally cant put you out of your misery with the info i know, but all i can say is that a min of 10 people will be definately going before christmas, the 10 or maybe more will be told this info in the next 11 weeks!!!!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
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July 2006 progression
The so called July 2006 that Eastern Boy says that will b the next progression...where does that come from???
There hasn't been one in the 1st 6 months this year so that means 10 that haven't moved...then there is this current 6 months to go...any movement at the station NO..who would want to work at EAA for a pittance (go on the dole for some REAL MOOLAH) when you get work as a MAM cas,get $258.00 /month in MISC expenses YES as a casual that is just one of the allowances they get...same as SH CC...GOOD LUCK down there EAA CC Miss You HEAPS...Go for the JUGULAR for the next EBA if you can
There hasn't been one in the 1st 6 months this year so that means 10 that haven't moved...then there is this current 6 months to go...any movement at the station NO..who would want to work at EAA for a pittance (go on the dole for some REAL MOOLAH) when you get work as a MAM cas,get $258.00 /month in MISC expenses YES as a casual that is just one of the allowances they get...same as SH CC...GOOD LUCK down there EAA CC Miss You HEAPS...Go for the JUGULAR for the next EBA if you can
Join Date: Jan 2003
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blondeontour
What The?
Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about, so maybe its best you stick to what you know.
However for your reference what I think easternboy was referring to was the "Career Progression Agreement" which states that 10 people from eastern WILL progress when 32 or more external applicants have been made permanent. If for operational reasons QF cannot take the 10 within the 6 month period that the externals are made permanent (in this case 1 July 2005 to 31 December 2005) it can be pushed back to the following 6 months being 1 January 2006 to 30 June, 2006. Which means as QF have made 32 MAM casuals permanent from 1 July, 2005 QF MUST take regional progression no later than 30 June, 2006. From all reports though regional progression will be occuring when the short haul to long haul transfers occur in November.
As you are not aware, career progression only occurs when there is permanent external recruitment. However in 2004 19 people from eastern alone progressed, 8 were owed from 2003 and 11 positions were negotiated by the FAAA. Now in 2005 a further 10 will progress. This is just eastern also included are sunstate and Jetstar. Career progression has occured in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004 and 2005 it didnt occur in 2003 due to Sars and the War. By any standards in the current climate thats pretty good going so I wouldnt be so quick to write them off.
True the salary is not fantastic but you are forgetting they have 5-6 days away per month, 6 weeks holidays, staff travel, sick leave the opportunity to earn more $$ by working on Days off worth something like $300 plus if you are prepared for the wait you are GUARANTEED a position within Qantas short haul after 2 years service. The regional progression list is like a short list you are never taken off unless you leave and this guarantees you a permanent position when available. Can you say the same for MAM casuals I think not.
Dont be so quick to judge other peoples positions or decisions. The options in our industry and within Qantas are very limited at present and some months with the hours that MAM casuals get you are the one that may have been better off on the dole.
What The?
Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about, so maybe its best you stick to what you know.
However for your reference what I think easternboy was referring to was the "Career Progression Agreement" which states that 10 people from eastern WILL progress when 32 or more external applicants have been made permanent. If for operational reasons QF cannot take the 10 within the 6 month period that the externals are made permanent (in this case 1 July 2005 to 31 December 2005) it can be pushed back to the following 6 months being 1 January 2006 to 30 June, 2006. Which means as QF have made 32 MAM casuals permanent from 1 July, 2005 QF MUST take regional progression no later than 30 June, 2006. From all reports though regional progression will be occuring when the short haul to long haul transfers occur in November.
As you are not aware, career progression only occurs when there is permanent external recruitment. However in 2004 19 people from eastern alone progressed, 8 were owed from 2003 and 11 positions were negotiated by the FAAA. Now in 2005 a further 10 will progress. This is just eastern also included are sunstate and Jetstar. Career progression has occured in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004 and 2005 it didnt occur in 2003 due to Sars and the War. By any standards in the current climate thats pretty good going so I wouldnt be so quick to write them off.
True the salary is not fantastic but you are forgetting they have 5-6 days away per month, 6 weeks holidays, staff travel, sick leave the opportunity to earn more $$ by working on Days off worth something like $300 plus if you are prepared for the wait you are GUARANTEED a position within Qantas short haul after 2 years service. The regional progression list is like a short list you are never taken off unless you leave and this guarantees you a permanent position when available. Can you say the same for MAM casuals I think not.
Dont be so quick to judge other peoples positions or decisions. The options in our industry and within Qantas are very limited at present and some months with the hours that MAM casuals get you are the one that may have been better off on the dole.
Last edited by GalleyHag; 11th Jul 2005 at 01:40.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Galley Hag...
I do know what I am talking about as I have seen soooo many GOOD people leave EAA due to the poor salary & the some of the conditions that seem to be detiorating on a weekly basis with mgmt creating loopholes when they seem fit with what seems to be NIL input from operating crew..yes the MONDAY to FRIDAY 9 to 5ers...you go on a progression list AFTER 2 years service(blood sweat & abuse) but at this stage to progress over to QF is upto what 5 or 6 years...
Go hard for conditions & PAY at the next EBA
I do know what I am talking about as I have seen soooo many GOOD people leave EAA due to the poor salary & the some of the conditions that seem to be detiorating on a weekly basis with mgmt creating loopholes when they seem fit with what seems to be NIL input from operating crew..yes the MONDAY to FRIDAY 9 to 5ers...you go on a progression list AFTER 2 years service(blood sweat & abuse) but at this stage to progress over to QF is upto what 5 or 6 years...
Go hard for conditions & PAY at the next EBA
Join Date: Aug 2005
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As someone who works for Eastern, I believe that management is bluffing whenever they threaten to take away progression. They are well aware that progression is the only reason people tolerate the rubbish dished out by management month after month. 99 if not 100 per cent of the current staff would leave if progression was taken away.
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Biscuit Chucker,
I find your highly emotional message very offensive.
Judging by your message, I assume that you have been with the company 5+ years. Have you ever considered that if cabin crew in the past had been more assertive when hammering out each successive EBA, your time at Eastern would not have been as difficult?
No one is saying "forget progression, we want more money now", but rather "pay us accordingly for the work we do and reward us for our loyalty and service with the right to progress to mainline".
Do you really think that Eastern management would be stupid enough to discard progression? If they did they wouldn't be able to hold on to cabin crew longer than a few months at a time. There is no way they could afford the cost involved in recruiting and training new crew at the rate of staff turnover they would have.
It is precisely because people in the past have panicked at the thought of losing progression that the company has been able to keep working conditions and benefits at such a low level.
I find your highly emotional message very offensive.
Judging by your message, I assume that you have been with the company 5+ years. Have you ever considered that if cabin crew in the past had been more assertive when hammering out each successive EBA, your time at Eastern would not have been as difficult?
No one is saying "forget progression, we want more money now", but rather "pay us accordingly for the work we do and reward us for our loyalty and service with the right to progress to mainline".
Do you really think that Eastern management would be stupid enough to discard progression? If they did they wouldn't be able to hold on to cabin crew longer than a few months at a time. There is no way they could afford the cost involved in recruiting and training new crew at the rate of staff turnover they would have.
It is precisely because people in the past have panicked at the thought of losing progression that the company has been able to keep working conditions and benefits at such a low level.
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Thanks for clarifying your views, Biscuit Chucker.
When you use terms like "RAPE", "step over own mothers" and "spitting in their workmates' eyes", it doesn't take a delicate sensibility to be offended.
Also, Eastern would have to increase wages by a huge amount in order to attract cabin crew who would be willing to stay at EAA with no progression to QF to look forward to, and that will never happen for economic reasons.
I don't see how you can judge people so harshly because they want a fair deal, nor do I see why you think that demanding better conditions would mean the loss of progression.
When you use terms like "RAPE", "step over own mothers" and "spitting in their workmates' eyes", it doesn't take a delicate sensibility to be offended.
Also, Eastern would have to increase wages by a huge amount in order to attract cabin crew who would be willing to stay at EAA with no progression to QF to look forward to, and that will never happen for economic reasons.
I don't see how you can judge people so harshly because they want a fair deal, nor do I see why you think that demanding better conditions would mean the loss of progression.
Last edited by m00ving_on; 2nd Aug 2005 at 01:36.
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rocketry, it sounds like you are an ex-union rep who wants a pat on the back.
Don't get me wrong, I know the faaa reps do a lot for cabin crew, however the "successes" you list should be measured against the normal working conditions in other companies and businesses.
For example, in my 1st year at Eastern I earned LESS than in my previous PART TIME JOB AS A SALES ASSISTANT!
You should find out about the pay and conditions at other regional airlines at the same time that you were at Eastern (Sunstate, Southern, Kendall, etc). You'll find that the Eastern eba was woefully behind the industry standard. Nothing to brag about.
NB This was a reply to a posting which has for some reason been deleted. In short it was praising the EBA.
Don't get me wrong, I know the faaa reps do a lot for cabin crew, however the "successes" you list should be measured against the normal working conditions in other companies and businesses.
For example, in my 1st year at Eastern I earned LESS than in my previous PART TIME JOB AS A SALES ASSISTANT!
You should find out about the pay and conditions at other regional airlines at the same time that you were at Eastern (Sunstate, Southern, Kendall, etc). You'll find that the Eastern eba was woefully behind the industry standard. Nothing to brag about.
NB This was a reply to a posting which has for some reason been deleted. In short it was praising the EBA.
Last edited by lfdlfp; 5th Aug 2005 at 03:10.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Are you 2 new crew? If so I will save you the trouble of worrying about the EBA. We will get 3% per year just like every other division of Qantas, maybe a small % increase in allowances and maybe a few other minor amendments here and there to the EBA. Do you people not know what happens within other divisions of our parent company? Everyone gets the same, we will not get any more money and there is nothing we or the faaa can do about it.
I would be interested to know how you intend to achieve a better outcome than previous crew?
I would be interested to know how you intend to achieve a better outcome than previous crew?
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easternboy,
please read the postings before commenting on them.
Your replies are totally misplaced. No one mentioned an increase to the base salary. I for one know very well that 3% per annum is what the whole of Qf gets, and we will never get more. There are other ways to pay us appropriately for the work we do (band payments, decent dta, etc), but since you are in the know, I shouldn't need to enlighten you.
How can we achieve it: BY EXPRESSING OUR VIEWS! We may not get everything we ask for, but we definitely won't get anything with a defeatist attitude. Whether we succeed or not, at least we'll know we tried.
please read the postings before commenting on them.
Your replies are totally misplaced. No one mentioned an increase to the base salary. I for one know very well that 3% per annum is what the whole of Qf gets, and we will never get more. There are other ways to pay us appropriately for the work we do (band payments, decent dta, etc), but since you are in the know, I shouldn't need to enlighten you.
How can we achieve it: BY EXPRESSING OUR VIEWS! We may not get everything we ask for, but we definitely won't get anything with a defeatist attitude. Whether we succeed or not, at least we'll know we tried.
Last edited by lfdlfp; 5th Aug 2005 at 03:13.
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OK Fine.
m00ving_on
When has management ever threatened to take away career progression?
True many, many years ago something should have been done about the base salary, however I believe previous crew have been assertive to achieve things like meal allowances, payments for working past 2200 before days off, substantial payments for working on ddo etc.
You say "pay us accordingly for the work we do and reward us for our loyalty and service with the right to progress to mainline".
How were past crew going to be able to achieve this when it will be impossible for current crew like ourselves to achieve such outcomes?
I agree with you totally 99% of crew would leave if progression to mainline was not available and I also agree with you that we should not let progression get in the way of negotiating better conditions.
However, the FAAA has always said to us progression has nothing to do with the EBA and can not be negotiated during the EBA it is a totally seperate issue. However it was the company that introduced progression as industrial blackmail during the last EBA which can be evidenced from this gem which formed part of a newsletter dated 18 June 2003 after our last EBA was voted down the first time.
"It is not true that either Eastern or Qantas have in any way suggested that Career Progression will be withdrawn. However, Management has advised that the new Agreement providing extra Career Progression positions, will not be signed until an EBA has been satisfactorily resolved".
Therefore I see NO reason why we as crew and the FAAA cannot make the first move on this issue this time round. What I and a lot of crew would like to see is Eastern flight attendants will not resolve our upcoming EBA until the issue of career progression has been satisfactorily resolved now that Qantas only ever employ casual crew and that external permanent employment only ever occurs every couple of years.
I would very much like to hear though how you expect us to achieve a better outcome.
lfdlfp
True the 1st year salary is crap and to add insult to injury we work harder in terms of hours than any other flight attendant division within the group but during the last EBA the first year salary requirements were changed so 1st year crew have previous crew to thank for the fact their salary could have be a whole lot worse.
Are you saying we should replace our meal allowance system with DTA? If so you should do the figures and with the type of flying we do we are worse off. Sure if we did trips like Sunstate, short haul etc DTA would be option but right now its not. I would love to get paid more than my base hourly rate for working weekends and public holidays but are you willing to give up our 7 hour after an overnight rule to achieve such an outcome? Because if you get it in one hand the company will take away in the other. I for 1 would want to see a HUGE increase in my pay packet to give up that EBA clause.
Like most eastern flight attendants I go through days where I have just had enough which can be evidenced from my last post. However after some sleep im now back in a fighting mood towards the company, but I am yet to see from any posts on here any real ideas where our pay packets and lifestyles can be improved apart from fighting for progression. Remember it was the company not crew that balckmailed us last time round so I see no reason why this issue cannot be renegotiated considering the changes in the way Qantas employ crew into short haul and the effect this has on us.
m00ving_on
When has management ever threatened to take away career progression?
True many, many years ago something should have been done about the base salary, however I believe previous crew have been assertive to achieve things like meal allowances, payments for working past 2200 before days off, substantial payments for working on ddo etc.
You say "pay us accordingly for the work we do and reward us for our loyalty and service with the right to progress to mainline".
How were past crew going to be able to achieve this when it will be impossible for current crew like ourselves to achieve such outcomes?
I agree with you totally 99% of crew would leave if progression to mainline was not available and I also agree with you that we should not let progression get in the way of negotiating better conditions.
However, the FAAA has always said to us progression has nothing to do with the EBA and can not be negotiated during the EBA it is a totally seperate issue. However it was the company that introduced progression as industrial blackmail during the last EBA which can be evidenced from this gem which formed part of a newsletter dated 18 June 2003 after our last EBA was voted down the first time.
"It is not true that either Eastern or Qantas have in any way suggested that Career Progression will be withdrawn. However, Management has advised that the new Agreement providing extra Career Progression positions, will not be signed until an EBA has been satisfactorily resolved".
Therefore I see NO reason why we as crew and the FAAA cannot make the first move on this issue this time round. What I and a lot of crew would like to see is Eastern flight attendants will not resolve our upcoming EBA until the issue of career progression has been satisfactorily resolved now that Qantas only ever employ casual crew and that external permanent employment only ever occurs every couple of years.
I would very much like to hear though how you expect us to achieve a better outcome.
lfdlfp
True the 1st year salary is crap and to add insult to injury we work harder in terms of hours than any other flight attendant division within the group but during the last EBA the first year salary requirements were changed so 1st year crew have previous crew to thank for the fact their salary could have be a whole lot worse.
Are you saying we should replace our meal allowance system with DTA? If so you should do the figures and with the type of flying we do we are worse off. Sure if we did trips like Sunstate, short haul etc DTA would be option but right now its not. I would love to get paid more than my base hourly rate for working weekends and public holidays but are you willing to give up our 7 hour after an overnight rule to achieve such an outcome? Because if you get it in one hand the company will take away in the other. I for 1 would want to see a HUGE increase in my pay packet to give up that EBA clause.
Like most eastern flight attendants I go through days where I have just had enough which can be evidenced from my last post. However after some sleep im now back in a fighting mood towards the company, but I am yet to see from any posts on here any real ideas where our pay packets and lifestyles can be improved apart from fighting for progression. Remember it was the company not crew that balckmailed us last time round so I see no reason why this issue cannot be renegotiated considering the changes in the way Qantas employ crew into short haul and the effect this has on us.
Join Date: Aug 2005
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It seems to me as if you are all on the same page...
I do have to say that I'm glad to finally see postings from Eastern staff on this issue, instead of ex-regional f/a-s telling us what to do.
It may not seem like much of a suggestion, but one way to start is for all crew to communicate their preferences to their FAAA representatives, so fill in your EBA surveys people, if you haven't already done so.
Also, I've heard that NG is working on changing Eastern flying to include multi-day trips. If this happens, DTA might be better than meal allowances.
As for the 7 hour limit on the second day of an overnight, I'm with you easternboy. I wouldn't give it up, especially now that we are doing overnights with 5 sectors on the 1st day.
I do have to say that I'm glad to finally see postings from Eastern staff on this issue, instead of ex-regional f/a-s telling us what to do.
It may not seem like much of a suggestion, but one way to start is for all crew to communicate their preferences to their FAAA representatives, so fill in your EBA surveys people, if you haven't already done so.
Also, I've heard that NG is working on changing Eastern flying to include multi-day trips. If this happens, DTA might be better than meal allowances.
As for the 7 hour limit on the second day of an overnight, I'm with you easternboy. I wouldn't give it up, especially now that we are doing overnights with 5 sectors on the 1st day.
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easternboy,
I agree with most of what you're saying. There's no secret to how to achieve gains in our eba, ie tough negotiation and not allowing management to divide us with spurious rumours.
If it comes to industrial action, we have to be united. Last time around a lot of people I know weren't prepared to strike, even though in the lead up they all complained about the pay and conditions.
I don't mean to bag previous Eastern staff, but let's face it, if Southern and Sunstate crews were on a better wicket in the years before we joined, it tells me that it was possible for Eastern crews to get a better deal too. If they'd been stronger, we wouldn't have needed to ask for BASICS in the last 2 eba-s.
I agree with most of what you're saying. There's no secret to how to achieve gains in our eba, ie tough negotiation and not allowing management to divide us with spurious rumours.
If it comes to industrial action, we have to be united. Last time around a lot of people I know weren't prepared to strike, even though in the lead up they all complained about the pay and conditions.
I don't mean to bag previous Eastern staff, but let's face it, if Southern and Sunstate crews were on a better wicket in the years before we joined, it tells me that it was possible for Eastern crews to get a better deal too. If they'd been stronger, we wouldn't have needed to ask for BASICS in the last 2 eba-s.
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Hi all
I'm new to pprune so welcome me! Just wanted to remind everyone that there is a EEA base at MQL! During all negotiations, arguments etc they are TOTALLY forgotten!!!!!
There are no o'nights (which is good for some, but poor for those who want to earn the extra allowances), if DTA's were introduced they would suffer hughely. So when you are looking at issues regarding the EBA etc, dont forget your "Country Cousins"!
There are no o'nights (which is good for some, but poor for those who want to earn the extra allowances), if DTA's were introduced they would suffer hughely. So when you are looking at issues regarding the EBA etc, dont forget your "Country Cousins"!
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Hi mouse78,
Make sure you express your views to the FAAA. If you don't tell them what your needs are, they can't ensure your best interests are taken into consideration at the EBA negotiations.
Make sure you express your views to the FAAA. If you don't tell them what your needs are, they can't ensure your best interests are taken into consideration at the EBA negotiations.
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Could any eastern crew member please enlighten me to the relevance of that information put together by someone showing all other airline salaries compared to ours? What is the point of that information? Were eastern crew not aware of how much other airlines got paid?
Any news on progression? Any truth to the rumours that start dates are being withheld until wait for it "the eba has been resolved"?
Any news on progression? Any truth to the rumours that start dates are being withheld until wait for it "the eba has been resolved"?
Last edited by QFRegional; 23rd Aug 2005 at 02:31.