Eastern Australia Airlines
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Thats a resounding YES and thankfully I am one of those people so if you require any info just ask.
I accept any duty including 8 sector days just to stay on the good side of crewing as you DO NOT want to be blacklisted when it comes to working on days off.
I had 4 days off last month and the previous month and worked well over 160 hours each month (wont tell you the actual figure as I will give myself away).
And to answer your earlier question EAAFA if I was a Southern f/a in ground school being trained on the dash I would not expect direct entry to Qantas. I would have been more than happy to continue to fly with Eastern which southern was merged with and fly on the dash for which I applied.
I accept any duty including 8 sector days just to stay on the good side of crewing as you DO NOT want to be blacklisted when it comes to working on days off.
I had 4 days off last month and the previous month and worked well over 160 hours each month (wont tell you the actual figure as I will give myself away).
And to answer your earlier question EAAFA if I was a Southern f/a in ground school being trained on the dash I would not expect direct entry to Qantas. I would have been more than happy to continue to fly with Eastern which southern was merged with and fly on the dash for which I applied.
Last edited by QFRegional; 21st Sep 2005 at 12:47.
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EAAFA
QFReional is spot on. The same people continue to be called to work days off and crewing call these people first if available as they will accept any duty offered even appalling 8 sector days. These are the same people that are also offered unvailable days and not forced to take their DIL if they work on a day off which pushes them over the 7 day rule.
QFReional is spot on. The same people continue to be called to work days off and crewing call these people first if available as they will accept any duty offered even appalling 8 sector days. These are the same people that are also offered unvailable days and not forced to take their DIL if they work on a day off which pushes them over the 7 day rule.
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Syd Girl, of course you are correct: the monthly rostered limit is 152 hours (90 hours per fortnight).
The reason behind the limit of hours per month (as well as other conditions in the EBA), is to ensure that cabin crew get sufficient rest between duties. The effects of fatigue on crew performance are well documented and should never be underestimated.
Anyone who prides him/herself on taking only 4 days off per month is not a hard worker. They are greedy at best and irresponsible at worst! They compromise the safety of their colleagues and passengers, they deliver inferior service and they undermine our EBA.
I for one wouldn't want to work with an exhausted colleague and I'm sure the passengers wouldn't appreciate it either.
Also, I doubt that someone who hogs all the IPDs would be selfless enough to decline the offer to progress to QF in favour of someone more senior/deserving if they were given the chance.
The reason behind the limit of hours per month (as well as other conditions in the EBA), is to ensure that cabin crew get sufficient rest between duties. The effects of fatigue on crew performance are well documented and should never be underestimated.
Anyone who prides him/herself on taking only 4 days off per month is not a hard worker. They are greedy at best and irresponsible at worst! They compromise the safety of their colleagues and passengers, they deliver inferior service and they undermine our EBA.
I for one wouldn't want to work with an exhausted colleague and I'm sure the passengers wouldn't appreciate it either.
Also, I doubt that someone who hogs all the IPDs would be selfless enough to decline the offer to progress to QF in favour of someone more senior/deserving if they were given the chance.
Last edited by EAAFA; 27th Sep 2005 at 23:05.
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EAAFA you are exactly right. The EBA has set a limit on the number of hours worked to protect the employee.. and then in turn the passengers! After all, it is the pax safety that is the main concern here.
I am surprised that the FAAA aren't all over that issue - maybe they aren't aware of it occuring?
It is disappointing that crew feel they have to work excessive overtime and do arduous duties outside their duty limitations just to make a poorly paid job into a reasonably paid job!
SG
I am surprised that the FAAA aren't all over that issue - maybe they aren't aware of it occuring?
It is disappointing that crew feel they have to work excessive overtime and do arduous duties outside their duty limitations just to make a poorly paid job into a reasonably paid job!
SG
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I'm glad you agree, SG.
I guess the FAAA can't do anything about people who work outside the EBA, especially if they're not union members (as is the case with the Melbourne culprit).
The union should, however, be able to do something about the way crewing staff operate. QFRegional has just admitted to flouting the EBA. That's his/her problem. However, why are crewing staff offering people work when they know they are working more than 6 days in a row or not having enough rest between duties? Whether an f/a agrees to do this or not, I was under the impression that the union has to give a dispensation, and it looks like crewing isn't seeking dispensations.
I'm not a union rep, but if I were, I wouldn't be granting dispensations which could potentially compromise the safety and wellbeing of both the person in question as well as those working with them.
I guess the FAAA can't do anything about people who work outside the EBA, especially if they're not union members (as is the case with the Melbourne culprit).
The union should, however, be able to do something about the way crewing staff operate. QFRegional has just admitted to flouting the EBA. That's his/her problem. However, why are crewing staff offering people work when they know they are working more than 6 days in a row or not having enough rest between duties? Whether an f/a agrees to do this or not, I was under the impression that the union has to give a dispensation, and it looks like crewing isn't seeking dispensations.
I'm not a union rep, but if I were, I wouldn't be granting dispensations which could potentially compromise the safety and wellbeing of both the person in question as well as those working with them.
Last edited by EAAFA; 27th Sep 2005 at 22:56.
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I think you will find the EBA states you will not be "rostered to work" more than 152 hours per month. The company nor the crew member are NOT working outside the EBA therefore the FAAA cannot get involved. I along with other crew have raised this issue with the FAAA in the past. If the crew member "elects" to work on a day off that is not considered a rostered duty therefore does not count towards the 152 hours set down in the EBA. At no time can the company force you to work over 152 hours in any 28 day period through normal rostering and the FAAA will fully support any crew member who doesnt come to work once they have reached 152 hour through their roster and reserves.
If the company or the FAAA really cared about the issue of fatigue and rest we wouldnt be rostered the duties we currently are out of Sydney base and be constantly drafted. Sure I am tired but I would never go to work if I felt I couldnt undertake my duties, and as for inferior service, maybe that applies to you but certainly not me.
I dont hog all the IPD's and thats a stupid thing to say how could I when IPD's are being offered on a daily basis. There are not that many crew in Sydney who list for IPD where it is not available to them, tex messages are also sent when all people registered have been exhausted. It sounds to me like sour grapes on your part EAAFA.
You are also wrong about my position on progression, so best to stick with what you know and instead of trying to second guess other crew's position on certain issues.
Once again no-one is working outside the EBA so get your facts straight and the company do abide by duty hour limitations and the 7 day rule. If you work on your 6th day and are rostered a duty for your 7th you are either made unavailable or forced to take your DIL no-one ever works more than 6 days straight. Unlike a few years ago where crew were working 10, 12, 14 days before having a day off and it was never forced.
You should make yourself a little more aware of the EBA and you would know a dispensation is not required, with EBA negotiations just around the corner maybe now is good time.
If the company or the FAAA really cared about the issue of fatigue and rest we wouldnt be rostered the duties we currently are out of Sydney base and be constantly drafted. Sure I am tired but I would never go to work if I felt I couldnt undertake my duties, and as for inferior service, maybe that applies to you but certainly not me.
I dont hog all the IPD's and thats a stupid thing to say how could I when IPD's are being offered on a daily basis. There are not that many crew in Sydney who list for IPD where it is not available to them, tex messages are also sent when all people registered have been exhausted. It sounds to me like sour grapes on your part EAAFA.
You are also wrong about my position on progression, so best to stick with what you know and instead of trying to second guess other crew's position on certain issues.
Once again no-one is working outside the EBA so get your facts straight and the company do abide by duty hour limitations and the 7 day rule. If you work on your 6th day and are rostered a duty for your 7th you are either made unavailable or forced to take your DIL no-one ever works more than 6 days straight. Unlike a few years ago where crew were working 10, 12, 14 days before having a day off and it was never forced.
You should make yourself a little more aware of the EBA and you would know a dispensation is not required, with EBA negotiations just around the corner maybe now is good time.
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QFRegional, before you reply to someone's posting you should re-read it until you understand it completely.
1. I didn't say that cabin crew are not allowed to work more than 152 hours per month. It is the limit agreed upon in the EBA as the reasonable hours that we are expected to work. It is not an arbitrary number. It takes into account the toll this job takes on us physically and if you are regularly working in excess of this total, you are flouting the guidelines of the EBA.
2. I referred to dispensations in the case of people working more than 6 days in a row (in response to Easternboy's posting).
3. Yes, a part of the reason I raised this issue is sour grapes. Occasionally, I too would like the chance to work on a day off for the extra money, but crewing always call the same people in my base, and others rarely have the chance to take advantage of this perk. Also, if there is a "blacklist" of people who shouldn't be called on days off, then that is a serious matter which should be examined. No one should be discriminated against because they have a life and cannot accept every time crewing offer them work on a day off.
Of course I don't know you, but based on every one of your posts in this forum, I can say that I have a right to form an opinion of your views and statements, just as you claim the right to judge me. The difference is, you judge me about issues of which you know nothing (ie the standard of my service and performance at work), while I judge you by your statements.
You admit to being tired, yet you accept duties on your days off. Like the rest of us you are human, so I can't see how your performance levels can be as high as usual when you are tired. It may benefit you to do some research on fatigue risk management.
Also, my response wasn't aimed at you personally. It was a response to Easternboy's and SydGirl's comments. If it struck a chord within you, then obviously your conscience isn't clear.
Take some time out to smell the roses...
1. I didn't say that cabin crew are not allowed to work more than 152 hours per month. It is the limit agreed upon in the EBA as the reasonable hours that we are expected to work. It is not an arbitrary number. It takes into account the toll this job takes on us physically and if you are regularly working in excess of this total, you are flouting the guidelines of the EBA.
2. I referred to dispensations in the case of people working more than 6 days in a row (in response to Easternboy's posting).
3. Yes, a part of the reason I raised this issue is sour grapes. Occasionally, I too would like the chance to work on a day off for the extra money, but crewing always call the same people in my base, and others rarely have the chance to take advantage of this perk. Also, if there is a "blacklist" of people who shouldn't be called on days off, then that is a serious matter which should be examined. No one should be discriminated against because they have a life and cannot accept every time crewing offer them work on a day off.
Of course I don't know you, but based on every one of your posts in this forum, I can say that I have a right to form an opinion of your views and statements, just as you claim the right to judge me. The difference is, you judge me about issues of which you know nothing (ie the standard of my service and performance at work), while I judge you by your statements.
You admit to being tired, yet you accept duties on your days off. Like the rest of us you are human, so I can't see how your performance levels can be as high as usual when you are tired. It may benefit you to do some research on fatigue risk management.
Also, my response wasn't aimed at you personally. It was a response to Easternboy's and SydGirl's comments. If it struck a chord within you, then obviously your conscience isn't clear.
Take some time out to smell the roses...
Last edited by EAAFA; 29th Sep 2005 at 01:54.
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Just to backtrack a bit:
"And to answer your earlier question EAAFA if I was a Southern f/a in ground school being trained on the dash I would not expect direct entry to Qantas. I would have been more than happy to continue to fly with Eastern which southern was merged with and fly on the dash for which I applied."
why should they have been forced to stay on dashes in favor of more senior eastern crew? Those crew didn't apply to work on a dash 8, they applied to work for Southern: BIG DIFFERENCE!
qfregional, eaafa was nice in telling you to smell the roses. I'd tell you something else, but it would could get me banned from this website!
"And to answer your earlier question EAAFA if I was a Southern f/a in ground school being trained on the dash I would not expect direct entry to Qantas. I would have been more than happy to continue to fly with Eastern which southern was merged with and fly on the dash for which I applied."
why should they have been forced to stay on dashes in favor of more senior eastern crew? Those crew didn't apply to work on a dash 8, they applied to work for Southern: BIG DIFFERENCE!
qfregional, eaafa was nice in telling you to smell the roses. I'd tell you something else, but it would could get me banned from this website!
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I'm of the understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) that the company can only contact crew to work on a day off in unforseen circumstances.
If crew are being called to work consistently 3 or 4 days each month then that is not really 'unforseen' is it?
SG
If crew are being called to work consistently 3 or 4 days each month then that is not really 'unforseen' is it?
SG
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Interesting point SydGirl. In the same clause of the EBA it also says that crewing may not contact us on a single day off standing alone. How many times do they contact people on their single days off?
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Very defensive, QFRegional.
Here's a question for you. Is accepting an 8 sector day when you have the right to say 'no' smart? and you are calling other people stupid!
When you have worked on 8 of your last days off in the last 2 months, it sounds to me like you ARE hogging ipds. you aren't getting all of them but you are getting more than your fair share, and that my dear is hogging.
Here's a question for you. Is accepting an 8 sector day when you have the right to say 'no' smart? and you are calling other people stupid!
When you have worked on 8 of your last days off in the last 2 months, it sounds to me like you ARE hogging ipds. you aren't getting all of them but you are getting more than your fair share, and that my dear is hogging.
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Gezz I feel like im in the crew room and can never escape you bunch of whinges, thats all you do all day, complain, bitch and moan.
lfdlfp
The people that I refer to were the new southern recruits in ground school for the DASH. I dont see the BIG difference, unless of course you want to tell me something about the DASH that I dont know.
SydGirl
Crewing do as they please and NG has no problem otherwise we wouldnt be getting the volume of IPD's available.
EAAFA
Whatever respect I had for you went out the window with your "blacklist" comment. Even if crewing have such a list are they going to tell you and me about it I dont think so. Maybe you will only accept 2 sectors on days off, call crewing as soon as you wake on your day off and try and score something, call the night before, you have to make yourself known as im sure the other crew within your base that get the work do.
fatigue risk management? Why should I care if management and the company dont, not my problem? If I feel I can perform safely and effectively I will turn up to work.
Are you being called by crewing on single days off now? I just thought you said you werent getting any work on days off. Anyway if you register to work crewing will contact otherwise generally they wont. If they do and you elect to work you are given options such as your DIL or unavailable days.
m00ving_on
Thank-you for noticing, its a tatic im now using having now mastered the craft from Eastern management.
Firstly im not anyone's dear. Secondly sour grapes and not my problem.
Nows where's that movie rewards nomination form I should nominate myself, I will be waiting quite some time for yourself and EAAFA to stop moaning to nominate me.
lfdlfp
The people that I refer to were the new southern recruits in ground school for the DASH. I dont see the BIG difference, unless of course you want to tell me something about the DASH that I dont know.
SydGirl
Crewing do as they please and NG has no problem otherwise we wouldnt be getting the volume of IPD's available.
EAAFA
Whatever respect I had for you went out the window with your "blacklist" comment. Even if crewing have such a list are they going to tell you and me about it I dont think so. Maybe you will only accept 2 sectors on days off, call crewing as soon as you wake on your day off and try and score something, call the night before, you have to make yourself known as im sure the other crew within your base that get the work do.
fatigue risk management? Why should I care if management and the company dont, not my problem? If I feel I can perform safely and effectively I will turn up to work.
Are you being called by crewing on single days off now? I just thought you said you werent getting any work on days off. Anyway if you register to work crewing will contact otherwise generally they wont. If they do and you elect to work you are given options such as your DIL or unavailable days.
m00ving_on
Thank-you for noticing, its a tatic im now using having now mastered the craft from Eastern management.
Firstly im not anyone's dear. Secondly sour grapes and not my problem.
Nows where's that movie rewards nomination form I should nominate myself, I will be waiting quite some time for yourself and EAAFA to stop moaning to nominate me.
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What a fantastic message QFRegional. It made me laugh and laugh!!!
I think you have picked up more from management than the defensiveness. you also quote the eba when it suits you, but ignore it when it doesn't.
All the time you are spending at altitude is affecting your brain sister girlfriend. (is that better than dear?)
I think you have picked up more from management than the defensiveness. you also quote the eba when it suits you, but ignore it when it doesn't.
All the time you are spending at altitude is affecting your brain sister girlfriend. (is that better than dear?)
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m00ving_on Im really starting to warm to you and you have given me idea I think I will apply for PG position now she has resigned. As you can see I already have all the skills to bring as part of the eastern management team. Of course I exclude KM when I talk of management as she is a true legend.
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QFRegional,
"I accept any duty including 8 sector days just to stay on the good side of crewing as you DO NOT want to be blacklisted when it comes to working on days off."
"Whatever respect I had for you went out the window with your "blacklist" comment. Even if crewing have such a list are they going to tell you and me about it I dont think so."
If you don't remember making these statements, look at your previous posts. I mentioned the 'blacklist' knowing full well that there is no such thing (as a matter of fact, I thought your statement was very naive). It was a rhetorical question.
As for the comment you made about fatigue risk management: you should care because your health and safety are at stake.
I'm not even going to bother to waste my time addressing any of your other comments. I've shown you far more respect than you deserve up until now.
"I accept any duty including 8 sector days just to stay on the good side of crewing as you DO NOT want to be blacklisted when it comes to working on days off."
"Whatever respect I had for you went out the window with your "blacklist" comment. Even if crewing have such a list are they going to tell you and me about it I dont think so."
If you don't remember making these statements, look at your previous posts. I mentioned the 'blacklist' knowing full well that there is no such thing (as a matter of fact, I thought your statement was very naive). It was a rhetorical question.
As for the comment you made about fatigue risk management: you should care because your health and safety are at stake.
I'm not even going to bother to waste my time addressing any of your other comments. I've shown you far more respect than you deserve up until now.
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I was just letting you know how it works with crewing plus having a huge go at you and I apologise. Look I hate the company just as much as the next person.
Lets call a truce I am not going to register or work any of my days off in the next roster and see how I go financially. The EBA is coming up and meetings are being held in Sydney on 15 October.
From information which came from crew who attended the management talk yesterday career progression will never happen as Qantas have a new interpretation of the arrangements. Why am I not surprised by that.
You may not be aware by PG has resigned so we have more new management to look forward to in the near future.
Lets call a truce I am not going to register or work any of my days off in the next roster and see how I go financially. The EBA is coming up and meetings are being held in Sydney on 15 October.
From information which came from crew who attended the management talk yesterday career progression will never happen as Qantas have a new interpretation of the arrangements. Why am I not surprised by that.
You may not be aware by PG has resigned so we have more new management to look forward to in the near future.
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A truce sounds fantastic to me. Deal!
No I didn't know that PG has resigned. Is she leaving the company, or is she returning to a role as an f/a?
Trust me, you'll love having more than 4 days off next month.
No I didn't know that PG has resigned. Is she leaving the company, or is she returning to a role as an f/a?
Trust me, you'll love having more than 4 days off next month.