BA cabin crew strike ballot!
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Last year I posted a link to a website that had the cabin crew payscales on it.
Someone called Golden Runways was so upset that the payscales were not a secret any more they threatened Danny that if he didn't remove the post they were going to report me to BA (assuming of course the website was mine which,of course, it wasn't).
However Danny told them where to go and also told me.
Now CSD's on Longhaul earn in the region of £30-£35K basic.
Allowances.
Assuming 20 days per month work - leave would give about 190 days work per annum.
Allowances would be on average (Longhaul) about £70/day. That equates to £13300 pa. These are taxed at a very low rate so they would gross up to at least £15000.
That means that a BA CSD grosses in real terms at least £45000-£50000 per year. In excess of over about 40% of flight crew.
Great work if you can get it.
No wonder its a big secret and guarded with such zealousness by the pathetic Golden Runways.
For info I include what they wrote at the time to Danny.
Touchy eh?
Someone called Golden Runways was so upset that the payscales were not a secret any more they threatened Danny that if he didn't remove the post they were going to report me to BA (assuming of course the website was mine which,of course, it wasn't).
However Danny told them where to go and also told me.
Now CSD's on Longhaul earn in the region of £30-£35K basic.
Allowances.
Assuming 20 days per month work - leave would give about 190 days work per annum.
Allowances would be on average (Longhaul) about £70/day. That equates to £13300 pa. These are taxed at a very low rate so they would gross up to at least £15000.
That means that a BA CSD grosses in real terms at least £45000-£50000 per year. In excess of over about 40% of flight crew.
Great work if you can get it.
No wonder its a big secret and guarded with such zealousness by the pathetic Golden Runways.
For info I include what they wrote at the time to Danny.
This post is very aggressive. I will also check with British Airways to see if normal_nigel aka ****** ****** has breached confidentiality rules by posting these internal documents. Do you believe the post and links to be appropriate? Thank you for your time in dealing with this matter. I will wait until 1630 before contacting BA.
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Last edited by normal_nigel; 19th Mar 2005 at 20:12.
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Normal nigel
Quote
That means that a BA CSD grosses in real terms at least £45000-£50000 per year. In excess of over about 50% of flight crew.
Ignoring the fact that your sentence 'in excess of over about' doesn't make sense, are you saying that slightly more than 50% of the pilots in BA are on LESS than this amount. Assuming that slightly over 50% are Captains anyway,how do you figure that one out.Their starting pay is 60,000+ before you start adding any allowances and we're not even considering the SFO's who,on long haul,can still take home more than some short haul Captains.
Come on Nige.I've read your posts before and you can do better than that!
Quote
That means that a BA CSD grosses in real terms at least £45000-£50000 per year. In excess of over about 50% of flight crew.
Ignoring the fact that your sentence 'in excess of over about' doesn't make sense, are you saying that slightly more than 50% of the pilots in BA are on LESS than this amount. Assuming that slightly over 50% are Captains anyway,how do you figure that one out.Their starting pay is 60,000+ before you start adding any allowances and we're not even considering the SFO's who,on long haul,can still take home more than some short haul Captains.
Come on Nige.I've read your posts before and you can do better than that!
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ooh well done for finding a typo error.
Actually I have changed it to 40% as I believe most of the FO's earn around £50K or less.
OK lets make it 30%.
In fact lets drop the comparison all together as pilots should be rewarded considerably more than cabin crew to reflect the required training and responsibility.
Doesn't change the fact CSD's are getting £50k a year at least.
Good attempt at a topic diversion though. Impressed.
Actually I have changed it to 40% as I believe most of the FO's earn around £50K or less.
OK lets make it 30%.
In fact lets drop the comparison all together as pilots should be rewarded considerably more than cabin crew to reflect the required training and responsibility.
Doesn't change the fact CSD's are getting £50k a year at least.
Good attempt at a topic diversion though. Impressed.
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Normal Nigel old boy please do not tell me how much I earn....surprise,surprise I know from my pay slip!!.
Hate to disapoint you but mine(I'm full time W/W) no where near what you are stating.
I'm happy with what I do get and if you're not happy with what I get what do you suggest I do?,walk in to the office and say 'Normal Nigel says I earn to much so please take enough back to get me under the pay of a new F/O, and when you're at it I don't want a final pension'!!?.
I don't make up the pay scales so don't ask me to feel guilty.
I wake up every day and enjoy the thought of coming to work because I enjoy the job and 99.9% of the people I come into contact with,there's always the odd bitter one
.
If you think we earn good money come and join us,however you may be disappointed.
Senior Captains on the -400 are on £***,*** P/A but I don't do public figures.Are they worth it?,yes because they have the skill and training to to save my life.I don't give a damn how much you guys earn that's personal and nothing to do with me.It is something agreed between BA and your union BALPA as our pay is with BASSA and 89 and BA.
Maybe we the CSD's should take the flight crew out and pay for all your meals and drinks to bring our money down to £10,000 and keep all you guys happy!!.
What would you like us to do Normal?.
Doors2Automatic
Hate to disapoint you but mine(I'm full time W/W) no where near what you are stating.
I'm happy with what I do get and if you're not happy with what I get what do you suggest I do?,walk in to the office and say 'Normal Nigel says I earn to much so please take enough back to get me under the pay of a new F/O, and when you're at it I don't want a final pension'!!?.
I don't make up the pay scales so don't ask me to feel guilty.
I wake up every day and enjoy the thought of coming to work because I enjoy the job and 99.9% of the people I come into contact with,there's always the odd bitter one
.If you think we earn good money come and join us,however you may be disappointed.
Senior Captains on the -400 are on £***,*** P/A but I don't do public figures.Are they worth it?,yes because they have the skill and training to to save my life.I don't give a damn how much you guys earn that's personal and nothing to do with me.It is something agreed between BA and your union BALPA as our pay is with BASSA and 89 and BA.
Maybe we the CSD's should take the flight crew out and pay for all your meals and drinks to bring our money down to £10,000 and keep all you guys happy!!.
What would you like us to do Normal?.
Doors2Automatic
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PLEASE!
Enough!
Instead of point scoring and one-upmanship, can we not debate things without the venom?
For those of us whom all work at BA, we're in it together. We all work for the same side. Sometimes I wonder how we can ever get a plane safely in the air; if one were to look at the ascerbicity of some of the posts on here between Flight Crew and Cabin Crew one would be forgiven for thinking that we all hate one another.
I just came back from a fantastic trip to Riga. Allowances sucked, I spent almost as much as I made. Considering that my salary without allowances is about the same rate as the national minimum wage, I *do* rely on my allowances to make ends meet. Some trips are better than others. But on this trip to Riga, we just had a great time, and the ENTIRE crew went out together, flight deck and cabin crew. There was no bickering, no fighting... and the rapport on the flight was fab.
Through our respective unions, we all want a good deal which safeguards both our own personal financial situation, as well as being something sustainable for the airline, irresepective of which side of the cockpit door we work.
There'll always be the odd exception to the rule, but almost every colleague I've worked with 'down the back' has an awareness of the importance of making the "10p in the pound", how this translates into a healthy airline, and how this translates into a secure future for all of us.
There is a difference in 'old contract' vs 'new'. Rather than harping on about water under the bridge, let's focus on the future. We're seeing more and more ppl join the airline (on the new contract). We're headed in the right direction.
Let's stop taking a bash at each others T&C and trying to score cheap points, and maybe have a think about other ways we can move forward together to make BA a great airline, and a great place to work.
As an addendum, hopefully to clarify some of the misperceptions being floated out there:
Salary for New Entrant Cabin Crew (this is advertised publicly on britishairwaysjobs.com so I feel it\'s ok to put it on here)
£9,665 per annum.
Allowances are listed as circa £500 a month. I have to say that this is a bit on the low side as some months I\'ve made quite a bit more than that, but then I\'ve also had months of all "there and backs" and made EVEN LESS than the "circa 500" figure.
Our colleagues at LGW WW often only take home "circa 500" a month in allowances...
As I said before, we need to focus on the future rather than on old contracts that will continue to slowly fizzle out. On the new contract which is what everyone starting now is on, I don\'t think we\'re overpaid (not when pitted against the cost of living in SE England/London), nor do I think we\'re paid significantly more than our competition - we just enjoy slightly better work rules and conditions. And this is exactly what I\'d hope for when working for the UK\'s number one carrier.
As a pilot explained to me recently with regards to pilot recruitment at BA; we\'re like the top feeder in the food chain. Being the #1 means we offer a slightly better deal, and most of our guys these days come from other carriers such as the Charters or Regionals....
Is it such a crime that here in Cabin Services we have a similar situation to the Flight Crew?
Enough!
Instead of point scoring and one-upmanship, can we not debate things without the venom?
For those of us whom all work at BA, we're in it together. We all work for the same side. Sometimes I wonder how we can ever get a plane safely in the air; if one were to look at the ascerbicity of some of the posts on here between Flight Crew and Cabin Crew one would be forgiven for thinking that we all hate one another.
I just came back from a fantastic trip to Riga. Allowances sucked, I spent almost as much as I made. Considering that my salary without allowances is about the same rate as the national minimum wage, I *do* rely on my allowances to make ends meet. Some trips are better than others. But on this trip to Riga, we just had a great time, and the ENTIRE crew went out together, flight deck and cabin crew. There was no bickering, no fighting... and the rapport on the flight was fab.
Through our respective unions, we all want a good deal which safeguards both our own personal financial situation, as well as being something sustainable for the airline, irresepective of which side of the cockpit door we work.
There'll always be the odd exception to the rule, but almost every colleague I've worked with 'down the back' has an awareness of the importance of making the "10p in the pound", how this translates into a healthy airline, and how this translates into a secure future for all of us.
There is a difference in 'old contract' vs 'new'. Rather than harping on about water under the bridge, let's focus on the future. We're seeing more and more ppl join the airline (on the new contract). We're headed in the right direction.
Let's stop taking a bash at each others T&C and trying to score cheap points, and maybe have a think about other ways we can move forward together to make BA a great airline, and a great place to work.
As an addendum, hopefully to clarify some of the misperceptions being floated out there:
Salary for New Entrant Cabin Crew (this is advertised publicly on britishairwaysjobs.com so I feel it\'s ok to put it on here)
£9,665 per annum.
Allowances are listed as circa £500 a month. I have to say that this is a bit on the low side as some months I\'ve made quite a bit more than that, but then I\'ve also had months of all "there and backs" and made EVEN LESS than the "circa 500" figure.
Our colleagues at LGW WW often only take home "circa 500" a month in allowances...
As I said before, we need to focus on the future rather than on old contracts that will continue to slowly fizzle out. On the new contract which is what everyone starting now is on, I don\'t think we\'re overpaid (not when pitted against the cost of living in SE England/London), nor do I think we\'re paid significantly more than our competition - we just enjoy slightly better work rules and conditions. And this is exactly what I\'d hope for when working for the UK\'s number one carrier.
As a pilot explained to me recently with regards to pilot recruitment at BA; we\'re like the top feeder in the food chain. Being the #1 means we offer a slightly better deal, and most of our guys these days come from other carriers such as the Charters or Regionals....
Is it such a crime that here in Cabin Services we have a similar situation to the Flight Crew?
Last edited by YYC F/A; 19th Mar 2005 at 21:56.
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Normal nigel
On the contrary.I was merely stating that your argument holds no water. Actually, the more I read your posts I ask myself the question whether you're a Pilot yourself and not just some wind up merchant! My 6 year old can argue a point better than that and without the strop at the end!
By the way, in case you're wondering, i'm NOT Cabin Crew and I DON'T work for B.A. I am a Pilot who has been in Aviation now for almost 20 years and in that time i've never known any other UK Airline that seems to have the bickering and fueds between Flight Crew and Cabin Crew that this Airline does.
I hope you try and get it sorted out between you guys otherwise like a cancer, it will start eating away at the very core of the Company and CRM days will become paper exercises. As for the teamwork that might be required in the event of an emergency... let's not even go there.
Good luck to you all,on both sides of the door and enjoy your OOF day....or whatever the latest thing is this year.
Now, back to the thread!
Regards
BYMONEK
On the contrary.I was merely stating that your argument holds no water. Actually, the more I read your posts I ask myself the question whether you're a Pilot yourself and not just some wind up merchant! My 6 year old can argue a point better than that and without the strop at the end!
By the way, in case you're wondering, i'm NOT Cabin Crew and I DON'T work for B.A. I am a Pilot who has been in Aviation now for almost 20 years and in that time i've never known any other UK Airline that seems to have the bickering and fueds between Flight Crew and Cabin Crew that this Airline does.
I hope you try and get it sorted out between you guys otherwise like a cancer, it will start eating away at the very core of the Company and CRM days will become paper exercises. As for the teamwork that might be required in the event of an emergency... let's not even go there.
Good luck to you all,on both sides of the door and enjoy your OOF day....or whatever the latest thing is this year.
Now, back to the thread!
Regards
BYMONEK
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Anyone reading this forum could be forgiven for thinking that there is a constant battle going on between flight crew and cabin crew at BA!!! I know there are some bad apples in the flight crew barrel just as there is in the cabin crew barrel. Most of us are NOT pilotphobic, Im not, 2 of my best friends are pilots
I have to agree with Doors2, unless this person is married to or has access to a CSDs pay details how on earth does he know what CSDs earn?? I have to say though 50 grand is news to me!! Hell, if it was true Pursers would be killing each other to get the job. Doors2, if you are on that much cocker, how about you leave your wife and kids and we set up home together
You have to laugh at these people Doors, they are so ill informed, I feel sorry for them cocker. Still, as long as they do the job they are paid to do, which is fly planes and not try to restructure our pay, I am happy.
I have to agree with Doors2, unless this person is married to or has access to a CSDs pay details how on earth does he know what CSDs earn?? I have to say though 50 grand is news to me!! Hell, if it was true Pursers would be killing each other to get the job. Doors2, if you are on that much cocker, how about you leave your wife and kids and we set up home together
You have to laugh at these people Doors, they are so ill informed, I feel sorry for them cocker. Still, as long as they do the job they are paid to do, which is fly planes and not try to restructure our pay, I am happy.
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I must confess that it is good to find out on a public forum how much much I am "supposed" to earn. I just hope my wife does not cotton on, as she thinks I earn a lot less that has been mentioned. ( so did I actually)As for value for money.....within the last 3 months of flying I have had to deal with one of my crew who had been given a terrible beating in a gay bar in PHL. Very upsetting for all concerned.
Then down in SYD am contacted at 0300 in my room by a hysterical cabin crew member whose boyfriend was threatening to kill himself over the phone whilst she listened.
Are CSDs at BA worth the money? On the whole yes I think we are.
For those flight crew eavesdroppers on the forum.....notice it was the CSD who those individuals contacted, and not the captain.
I wonder why......................................................... ...............??
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Gee, after eavesdropping on the QF/LHR base thread on here (nasty!!!), the flying community at BA sounds like a big, bright bouncy castle on a summers day in Alice In Wonderland!
I mean honestly, are things really that bad between the Flight Crew and Cabin Crew? I don't think so. Nearly all my trips I go on the flight and cabin crew get together. The issue of pay and conditions sometimes comes up but is debated in a very 'adult' way before everyone gets back to the task of socialising.
It is just so easy on chat forums like this to release all your venom while you can hide behind the guise of a 'username'. BYMONK (who indeed has admitted he doesn't actually work for BA anyway) debating with 'normalnigel' who have never met each other and don't know the other from Adam isn't quite the same as 'Joe' chatting with 'Bill' about the same over a beer in Singapore.
Yeh, I have flown with a few w**ker pilots. Mind you there are w**ker CSD/Pursers and Maincrew out there as well.
I mean honestly, are things really that bad between the Flight Crew and Cabin Crew? I don't think so. Nearly all my trips I go on the flight and cabin crew get together. The issue of pay and conditions sometimes comes up but is debated in a very 'adult' way before everyone gets back to the task of socialising.
It is just so easy on chat forums like this to release all your venom while you can hide behind the guise of a 'username'. BYMONK (who indeed has admitted he doesn't actually work for BA anyway) debating with 'normalnigel' who have never met each other and don't know the other from Adam isn't quite the same as 'Joe' chatting with 'Bill' about the same over a beer in Singapore.
Yeh, I have flown with a few w**ker pilots. Mind you there are w**ker CSD/Pursers and Maincrew out there as well.
Last edited by keeperboy; 20th Mar 2005 at 18:02.
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So then 'normal' 
nigel, perhaps now you'd like to print on here what your Basic ,Allowances and Take-home are - or are you that much of a coward you can only print here totally inaccurate information about your colleagues ?
Or are you so affected and ostentatious that 'we really need not know about' ?
Some of these posts are farcical...........
nigel, perhaps now you'd like to print on here what your Basic ,Allowances and Take-home are - or are you that much of a coward you can only print here totally inaccurate information about your colleagues ?Or are you so affected and ostentatious that 'we really need not know about' ?
Some of these posts are farcical...........
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The second in command may well have to wrestle with the controls and safely land the plane from a 31,000ft terror dive saving all on board after the Captain collapses but let's be honest.....it doesn't exactly happen often,does it?
If thats all you think the FO is there for, you're knowledge of flying is somewhat limited. A bit surprising as your profile claims you have an ATPL.
The bottom line is that the primary objective of every flight is to get from A to B as safely as possible. Whether Joe Bloggs in 10C gets the drink he wants, when he wants is a very distant second to this objective. Seeing as the FO plays a far greater role in achievement of this objective, and given that the non-functionability of the FO is far more prejudicial to flight safety than a non-functioning CSD, there can be no question of whom should attract the greater salary. Whether the FO has 200 hours or 5000 does not change this fact.
This is leaving aside all the other rather obvious arguments to do with the constant checking, the much higher accountability, the length and expense of the training etc etc.
Good luck to all CC who manage to make more than pilots, but the fact is that it is a serious flaw in the system that allows this to happen.
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ElNino
Hopefully I do Know what an F/O does as I wouldn't being doing the job I do.I hear what you say but I think we'll just have to agree to differ on this as it appears to be going round in circles.My only parting shot in this debate would be to ask this very simple question;
If,as you say,people with the most accountability and responsibility should always get paid the most,shouldn't that mean our prime minister should earn more than any other ?
Regards
BYMONEK
p.s The cabin Crew are also there primarily for safety ie getting you from a-b.......not just to serve Bloggs in 10c!
Hopefully I do Know what an F/O does as I wouldn't being doing the job I do.I hear what you say but I think we'll just have to agree to differ on this as it appears to be going round in circles.My only parting shot in this debate would be to ask this very simple question;
If,as you say,people with the most accountability and responsibility should always get paid the most,shouldn't that mean our prime minister should earn more than any other ?
Regards
BYMONEK
p.s The cabin Crew are also there primarily for safety ie getting you from a-b.......not just to serve Bloggs in 10c!
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New crew are underpsid because BA has to somehow finance the £50K salaries.
Lets not forget that the tax is lower so hitting headline rate of £50K in the real world is not unrealistic.
I don't actually begrudge it. As I said nice work if you can get it.
Oh and I'm on £80K+. Its not a secret.
NN
Lets not forget that the tax is lower so hitting headline rate of £50K in the real world is not unrealistic.
I don't actually begrudge it. As I said nice work if you can get it.
Oh and I'm on £80K+. Its not a secret.
NN
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Actually Nigel, new entrant cabin crew are on a different contract because back in '97 BA introduced a new starter rate.Our trade union argued against it, and consequently we went on strike.
In this day and age this mythical salary of 50k is not unusual, and living in the South East as you are probably aware is very expensive.
I personally could not give a toss what an FO earns, and I am amazed that anyone is interested in what I earn as a CSD.
I am sure that you are good at your job, and I hope that I am equally as good at mine.
IMPO this is not the place to be discussing the salary structure within BAs flying staff. So why don't we park it and move on?
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I am old contract crew, on longhaul. At the minute, I am sitting on me arse in the far east, at a fabulous hotel, by the pool in the baking sunshine and i'm lighting me ciggies with ten pound notes why are our wages causing such a debate? it's no ones business except our own in my opinion
why are our wages causing such a debate? it's no ones business except our own in my opinion
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Whilst i do enjoy discusssing concerns with all those concerned with aviation i can't help but feel PPRuNE was much better value a few years ago. All too often now discussions evolve into abuse, CC v FC, BA bashing, or some idiot asks a question to which the answers can be found by doing a simple google search.
Remember that this was a pilots website originally.
Remember that this was a pilots website originally.