QF to REMOVE Crew Rest for FA's
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QF to REMOVE Crew Rest for FA's
Current story from QCC Syd is that Geoff is planning to remove Cabin Crew Rest on all aircraft.
His aim is 2 fold. One to reclaim these seats for improving load factors and two, to ensure Cabin Crew are "Visable" to the pax for more of the flight instead of hiding away down the back or in crew rest.
This view of not enough service during the "whole flight" has come via feedback from some pax during recent product surveys undertaken by QF.
Hmm.. more conditions slowing slipping away. Anybody heard the story TITANIC?
His aim is 2 fold. One to reclaim these seats for improving load factors and two, to ensure Cabin Crew are "Visable" to the pax for more of the flight instead of hiding away down the back or in crew rest.
This view of not enough service during the "whole flight" has come via feedback from some pax during recent product surveys undertaken by QF.
Hmm.. more conditions slowing slipping away. Anybody heard the story TITANIC?
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If Geoff removed the crew rest on board the aircraft, then there'd be no service at all since all the FA's will be collapsing in the aisles after being on their feet for 14 hour stints. This is aside from the mutiny it would create with crew and the FAAA.
Good luck if he wants to remove the OCRF on the 747-400 and sell that to pax!!!!!
Will he be selling off the tech crew rest as well? HA!!
SG
Good luck if he wants to remove the OCRF on the 747-400 and sell that to pax!!!!!
Will he be selling off the tech crew rest as well? HA!!
SG
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Someone tell the dickhe@d that he needs help.
It staggers me to think that anyone would be of the opinion that denying the cabin crew's physiological and psychological need for rest is going to improve cabin service, given the jetlag and horrendous hours that we work.
I can picture it now.
4 AM local time and eight crew all standing around in the back galley staring at each other for hours on end with all in the cabin fast asleep, nobody stirring, not even a mouse.
Come breakfast time those eight crew who will now have been awake for more than 24 hours and so tired that they want to puke, will be smiling from ear to ear and giving great service.....................not!!!!!
Surely NOT EVEN QF management could be THAT stupid.............................?
Jettlager
P.S. I am worried.
OTOH maybe geoff should look into the possibility of having genetically engineered FA's that dont need food, rest sleep or pay.
Vending machines anyone?????
It staggers me to think that anyone would be of the opinion that denying the cabin crew's physiological and psychological need for rest is going to improve cabin service, given the jetlag and horrendous hours that we work.
I can picture it now.
4 AM local time and eight crew all standing around in the back galley staring at each other for hours on end with all in the cabin fast asleep, nobody stirring, not even a mouse.
Come breakfast time those eight crew who will now have been awake for more than 24 hours and so tired that they want to puke, will be smiling from ear to ear and giving great service.....................not!!!!!
Surely NOT EVEN QF management could be THAT stupid.............................?
Jettlager
P.S. I am worried.
OTOH maybe geoff should look into the possibility of having genetically engineered FA's that dont need food, rest sleep or pay.
Vending machines anyone?????
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Before all this slides into predicatable territory, I wondered if you QF folks could help us non-QF crew better to understand the current crew rest arrangements and facilities at QF. For example...
Thanks in anticipation.
- What crew rest facilities are available on different aircraft types?
- What sector lengths are they used on?
- Is Crew Rest a legislative requirement, or part of a union agreement?
Thanks in anticipation.
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In the long haul cabin crew arena:
767 aircraft have 4 economy seats blocked off and curtained.
747-300 aircraft have 6 economy seats blocked off and curtained.
747-400 aircraft have 2 economy seats and 2 reclinable crew jump seats plus the overhead crew rest (8 bunks).
The provisions above are mandatory regardless of the sector length.
On long range sectors (> 12 hours) horizontal rest must be provided. This is automatic on the 747-400 and is loaded below the floor in a special freight can on 747-300. Although QF has been blocking 6 rows of 4 economy seats in lieu of the can on Mumbai flights to save freight space.
Long haul cabin crew are entitled to 20 mins off in the first 6 hours and a further 20 mins in every next 4 hours.
All the conditions above are industrial entitlements prescribed in EBA documents. We have yet to secure regulatory conditions like our pilot colleagues.
Hope this helps.
767 aircraft have 4 economy seats blocked off and curtained.
747-300 aircraft have 6 economy seats blocked off and curtained.
747-400 aircraft have 2 economy seats and 2 reclinable crew jump seats plus the overhead crew rest (8 bunks).
The provisions above are mandatory regardless of the sector length.
On long range sectors (> 12 hours) horizontal rest must be provided. This is automatic on the 747-400 and is loaded below the floor in a special freight can on 747-300. Although QF has been blocking 6 rows of 4 economy seats in lieu of the can on Mumbai flights to save freight space.
Long haul cabin crew are entitled to 20 mins off in the first 6 hours and a further 20 mins in every next 4 hours.
All the conditions above are industrial entitlements prescribed in EBA documents. We have yet to secure regulatory conditions like our pilot colleagues.
Hope this helps.
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Hey Guys!
No need to panic, Just spoke to a Qantas Commercial Engineer who is involved in the seats section and rest assured that the removal of crew rest will not happen. It's a rumor! Qantas may even install IFE in A380 seats for crew rest. I think its better than staring in the dark if you can't fall asleep. At least you will have a movie to watch.
Rollz
No need to panic, Just spoke to a Qantas Commercial Engineer who is involved in the seats section and rest assured that the removal of crew rest will not happen. It's a rumor! Qantas may even install IFE in A380 seats for crew rest. I think its better than staring in the dark if you can't fall asleep. At least you will have a movie to watch.
Rollz
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to ensure Cabin Crew are "Visable" to the pax for more of the flight instead of hiding away down the back
genetically engineered FA's that dont need food, rest sleep or pay.
Let the good times roll.........................
By the way, it is a fact that some airlines out there operating into Australia do so on these long-haul sectors without even always having a row of economy seats blocked off, let alone a crew rest. You may consider yourselves to be offically still lucky.
Maybe it's just a matter of getting used to it. The asian FAs currently being hired have a different pain threshold when it comes to fatigue and have no qualms when it comes to securing a job. You have to become competitive or watch more of ya jobs disappear.
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Give Me A Break
There will come a day in the not too distant future when the detrimental effects of longhaul flying will become public knowledge.It won`t be pretty.Fatigue will count high amongst these effects.Sectors in excess of 14 hours reduce human response times to that of someone with a blood alcohol content of .08 .Kill yourself driving home after a sector like this and your employer should be held responsible.Has your employer(airline)warned you of the dangers....not bloody likely!!
Employers have a duty of care to provide a safe and healthy work environment.At the very least you should be warned of what flying is doing to you.Do some googling..the information is there and for any reasonable person it is a cause for concern.I love what I do but I would like to be informed of the health downside so I can take measures to negate some of these effects.
As for Blue Mullode(registered JAN 2005)no one gets used to fatigue or jet lag ..you just learn to live with it.Blew My Load,the name says it all.Just another mangement troll who comes out of the woodwork expounds something uninformed and moronic then disappears adding nothing intelligent to the discussion at hand
Employers have a duty of care to provide a safe and healthy work environment.At the very least you should be warned of what flying is doing to you.Do some googling..the information is there and for any reasonable person it is a cause for concern.I love what I do but I would like to be informed of the health downside so I can take measures to negate some of these effects.
As for Blue Mullode(registered JAN 2005)no one gets used to fatigue or jet lag ..you just learn to live with it.Blew My Load,the name says it all.Just another mangement troll who comes out of the woodwork expounds something uninformed and moronic then disappears adding nothing intelligent to the discussion at hand
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Blue Mullode - Want another drink? Ask for it, I'll give you some nuts too..
As for the Asian crew being hired (Thai's) I'm sure CASA would love me to report to them every time I see them nodding off in their crew seats during take off and landing. They are so exhausted all the time due to their rostering by QF ops. Not the Thai crews fault, they are just too tired to be operating.
As for the Asian crew being hired (Thai's) I'm sure CASA would love me to report to them every time I see them nodding off in their crew seats during take off and landing. They are so exhausted all the time due to their rostering by QF ops. Not the Thai crews fault, they are just too tired to be operating.
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Interesting...
Whilst there are clauses in the EBA protecting the Crew rest Facility, just have a look at what the company is doing to Short Haul Crew at the moment..
We have a 4 day Singapore and on the last day we operate SIN-DRW-ADL-SYD all in one hit..its rostered at 13 hours 20 mins but always goes over 14 hours as they cant turn the stupid A330-300 around quick enough. Crew rest is provided.. 4 seats in the cabin right in front of the Left 3 toilet and next to the two centre toilets.. Its absolutely charming hearing that vacuum flush and doors banging and people popping their heads in to see "Whats behind the curtain"
Its totally useless anyway because the type of service we do and these sector times usually means some crew dont even get a break, especially the on board manager..
A sign of things to come
Whilst there are clauses in the EBA protecting the Crew rest Facility, just have a look at what the company is doing to Short Haul Crew at the moment..
We have a 4 day Singapore and on the last day we operate SIN-DRW-ADL-SYD all in one hit..its rostered at 13 hours 20 mins but always goes over 14 hours as they cant turn the stupid A330-300 around quick enough. Crew rest is provided.. 4 seats in the cabin right in front of the Left 3 toilet and next to the two centre toilets.. Its absolutely charming hearing that vacuum flush and doors banging and people popping their heads in to see "Whats behind the curtain"
Its totally useless anyway because the type of service we do and these sector times usually means some crew dont even get a break, especially the on board manager..
A sign of things to come
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As for butterfield 8 who registered all the way back a couple of months ago (wow...... oldtimer!!) what makes you think I know nothing about fatigue or jetlag? You remember the old adage about the perception of a fool and opening one's mouth, etc, etc, don't you? How many years have you been in this game? Two??? Wow.
So anyone who disagrees with your strident opinions is a management troll. I see..........
It's not surprising you don't like the idea if you're the one having to adopt someone else's standard instead of them improving to yours. Naturally you won't like it but you may have to learn to work harder. Other airlines have different standards that qantas has to match. Why is this simple concept so difficult for you to understand?
Well what can I say. If you go on your first flight and end up absolutely shagged at the end and you still can't figure out it will be like that every time and you can't imagine it might not be the best for you then I'm sorry but you may be in line for a Darwin Award eventually. How did you make it this far????
This level of self-awareness is what dictates your remuneration.
So anyone who disagrees with your strident opinions is a management troll. I see..........
It's not surprising you don't like the idea if you're the one having to adopt someone else's standard instead of them improving to yours. Naturally you won't like it but you may have to learn to work harder. Other airlines have different standards that qantas has to match. Why is this simple concept so difficult for you to understand?
you should be warned of what flying is doing to you.
This level of self-awareness is what dictates your remuneration.
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Well what if I am? (contemplating or too lazy) To each his own. I don't see anything wrong with either of those.
Maybe you should try it. With your exit-only inclinations there might even be something in it for you what with the rank and file being infested with 'biters and 'packers.... just to get you through the day, mind you.
Meanwhile back to the intelligent discussion.
The detrimental effects of longhaul flying ARE ALREADY public knowledge just as the detrimental effects of smoking are. No big secrets there. Will you be taking McDonalds to court soon for not telling you their food halped make you fat?
Maybe you should try it. With your exit-only inclinations there might even be something in it for you what with the rank and file being infested with 'biters and 'packers.... just to get you through the day, mind you.
Meanwhile back to the intelligent discussion.
The detrimental effects of longhaul flying ARE ALREADY public knowledge just as the detrimental effects of smoking are. No big secrets there. Will you be taking McDonalds to court soon for not telling you their food halped make you fat?
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Bodum
no offence intended darls, but we at longhaul have done that particular sector for years .... on the 767 .... same issues. Maybe if shorthaul didnt want it they shouldnt have voted for it? Sorry, but as you guys are cheaper you will get those long ones
was you at shorthaul that voted up the ability for the company to make you do it! Again no offence - but if you want to whinge, then do it to your union!
The SIN-DRW-ADL-SYD sectors were always very popular (senior) with longhaul crew .... it was always a very short trip with very high hours ... one of those 'three- day- beauts' a fortnight and your roster was done
As far as removing crew rest from ALL aircraft? Well, I would love to see QF spending the $$$$$ removing the o/head crew rest on the 744. It is too expensive for QF to go through the cost of CASA reporting/ modification approval just to remove the ashtrays from outside the loos on our planes!!!!! ... let alone removing a whole area containing 8 bunks and assoicated equipment.
A wind- up , this thread is
no offence intended darls, but we at longhaul have done that particular sector for years .... on the 767 .... same issues. Maybe if shorthaul didnt want it they shouldnt have voted for it? Sorry, but as you guys are cheaper you will get those long ones
was you at shorthaul that voted up the ability for the company to make you do it! Again no offence - but if you want to whinge, then do it to your union!The SIN-DRW-ADL-SYD sectors were always very popular (senior) with longhaul crew .... it was always a very short trip with very high hours ... one of those 'three- day- beauts' a fortnight and your roster was done
As far as removing crew rest from ALL aircraft? Well, I would love to see QF spending the $$$$$ removing the o/head crew rest on the 744. It is too expensive for QF to go through the cost of CASA reporting/ modification approval just to remove the ashtrays from outside the loos on our planes!!!!! ... let alone removing a whole area containing 8 bunks and assoicated equipment.
A wind- up , this thread is
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quote:
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The SIN-DRW-ADL-SYD sectors were always very popular (senior) with longhaul crew .... it was always a very short trip with very high hours ... one of those 'three- day- beauts' a fortnight and your roster was done
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No offence q-tee but thats why short haul crew are doing those trips.
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The SIN-DRW-ADL-SYD sectors were always very popular (senior) with longhaul crew .... it was always a very short trip with very high hours ... one of those 'three- day- beauts' a fortnight and your roster was done
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No offence q-tee but thats why short haul crew are doing those trips.
Last edited by GalleyHag; 31st Jan 2005 at 23:04.
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B Mullode`s Workplace
Let`s assume BM is a ground person....starts work around 08.30 and finishes around 17.30-18.00.He may have a morning tea break around 10.30-11.00 and has worked maybe 3hours.Lunch will be around 13.00 for perhaps an hour.The company he works for may have a canteen or he may get to go to a nearby cafe.He works another4.5 hours and goes home.During the day he may make some personal phone calls and if he smokes goes outside to indulge himself.He may even surf the net on the company time.
Ok let`s modify his work environment.First he is not allowed to leave his office,workstation whatever.He is no longer allowed to smoke.He can longer go to the canteen and no longer surf the net.He is no longer allowed to have a pee until his work is done.Also his workday is increased from 8-9 hours to 14-15 hours.We will then decrease his available oxygen by 6-8% and also increase carbon monoxide levels in his workspace by around 15%.Next we will increase the noise output of his air conditioner to that of a jet engine and we will also put a 3 degree slant on his workplace floor.His eating will be conducted standing up next to a garbage disposal and share a space 2 metres wide and a metre and a half long with 6 other people.If his employer needs him he must respond even if he is still eating.He must also be able to see in the dark and remember at least 8 requests from clients and their respective telephone numbers
If he is lucky he may be allowed 20 mins off in his first 6 hours of work.If he is even luckier we may give him another 20 mins in the next 4 hours.If he is working overnight he may have his rest in a seat Too bad if he is are over 175cms.
Which environment/conditions would you rather have?
Simple choice really.
Ok let`s modify his work environment.First he is not allowed to leave his office,workstation whatever.He is no longer allowed to smoke.He can longer go to the canteen and no longer surf the net.He is no longer allowed to have a pee until his work is done.Also his workday is increased from 8-9 hours to 14-15 hours.We will then decrease his available oxygen by 6-8% and also increase carbon monoxide levels in his workspace by around 15%.Next we will increase the noise output of his air conditioner to that of a jet engine and we will also put a 3 degree slant on his workplace floor.His eating will be conducted standing up next to a garbage disposal and share a space 2 metres wide and a metre and a half long with 6 other people.If his employer needs him he must respond even if he is still eating.He must also be able to see in the dark and remember at least 8 requests from clients and their respective telephone numbers
If he is lucky he may be allowed 20 mins off in his first 6 hours of work.If he is even luckier we may give him another 20 mins in the next 4 hours.If he is working overnight he may have his rest in a seat Too bad if he is are over 175cms.
Which environment/conditions would you rather have?
Simple choice really.
Last edited by captainrats; 1st Feb 2005 at 10:36.