QF contractors on probation
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QF contractors on probation
I know I'll get a flogging for this, but quite frankly I'm going to share what I've recently been advised.
Sometime ago, I mentioned in another thread that the 11 month contractors (of which I am one) may have some difficulty in striking as many of us will be in our probation period.
There were various views put forward on pprune as to the merits of striking and not striking and whether you could be dismissed or not if you participated in protected industrial action.
Well, I sought further legal advice from an experienced industrial lawyer and essentially he said that ordinarily, any employee who participates in protected legal action cannot be disciplined or dismissed from his/her workplace, providing its lawful participation. Whilst this isn't a problem for those that have been around for awhile it is a problem if the employer decides not to confirm the employment of any person who is currently subject to a probation period.
So, if you take too much sick leave, your not performing, you don't fit within the company culture, you go on strike, you step out of line in the first 6 months they can let you go. There doesn't have to be a particular reason or "counselling process". That's the whole point of having a probation period apparently.
Now, I'm not advocating to work or not work during any strike that may or may not occur. However, at least you have some further information to consider if the time actually comes when you have to make your decision.
For those who will definately strike, please also bear the above in mind when some people feel they have no choice but to work during the strike. The company has been very astute in positioning its fixed term staff into no win situation. Its a crappy situation, so please don't take it out on those who have been "set up", take it out on the company.
Sometime ago, I mentioned in another thread that the 11 month contractors (of which I am one) may have some difficulty in striking as many of us will be in our probation period.
There were various views put forward on pprune as to the merits of striking and not striking and whether you could be dismissed or not if you participated in protected industrial action.
Well, I sought further legal advice from an experienced industrial lawyer and essentially he said that ordinarily, any employee who participates in protected legal action cannot be disciplined or dismissed from his/her workplace, providing its lawful participation. Whilst this isn't a problem for those that have been around for awhile it is a problem if the employer decides not to confirm the employment of any person who is currently subject to a probation period.
So, if you take too much sick leave, your not performing, you don't fit within the company culture, you go on strike, you step out of line in the first 6 months they can let you go. There doesn't have to be a particular reason or "counselling process". That's the whole point of having a probation period apparently.
Now, I'm not advocating to work or not work during any strike that may or may not occur. However, at least you have some further information to consider if the time actually comes when you have to make your decision.
For those who will definately strike, please also bear the above in mind when some people feel they have no choice but to work during the strike. The company has been very astute in positioning its fixed term staff into no win situation. Its a crappy situation, so please don't take it out on those who have been "set up", take it out on the company.
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Arm_Doors,
Qantas has historically only terminated a new crew member who is on probation for serious misbehavior.
We are talking about personality types that for whatever reason are totally unsuitable for the position.
Sick leave use [within reason] shouldn't be an issue.
QF trainers even advise new crew to expect high levels of sickness due to lifestyle changes, fatigue and exposure to new food and viruses etc.
QF would most definately need to show cause as to why it had terminated crew during probation.
If someone has told you otherwise they are seriously mistaken or are using it as an empty threat.
A great deal of money has been spent on you remember and QF expect a return
The legislation states that no employee can be prejudiced through their lawful decision to take protected industrial action.
My advice would be to think very carefully about the reasons why longhaul crew are going to take this action.
At the end of the day it is so that YOU and your fellow fixed termers can have and KEEP your job.
You stand to gain far more than I do by the FAAA successfully negotiating a fair and sensible cap on the number of offshore crew employed by QF.
I'm going on strike.
Think about it.
Jettlager
Qantas has historically only terminated a new crew member who is on probation for serious misbehavior.
We are talking about personality types that for whatever reason are totally unsuitable for the position.
Sick leave use [within reason] shouldn't be an issue.
QF trainers even advise new crew to expect high levels of sickness due to lifestyle changes, fatigue and exposure to new food and viruses etc.
QF would most definately need to show cause as to why it had terminated crew during probation.
If someone has told you otherwise they are seriously mistaken or are using it as an empty threat.
A great deal of money has been spent on you remember and QF expect a return
The legislation states that no employee can be prejudiced through their lawful decision to take protected industrial action.
My advice would be to think very carefully about the reasons why longhaul crew are going to take this action.
At the end of the day it is so that YOU and your fellow fixed termers can have and KEEP your job.
You stand to gain far more than I do by the FAAA successfully negotiating a fair and sensible cap on the number of offshore crew employed by QF.
I'm going on strike.
Think about it.
Jettlager
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Well said Jett.
Dear God now I undersand why I did not get a position applied for recently with MAM, in your infinite wisdom you do know best... thank you.
I will in future try not to be such an ungreatful little s
t
Dear God now I undersand why I did not get a position applied for recently with MAM, in your infinite wisdom you do know best... thank you.
I will in future try not to be such an ungreatful little s
t
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Jettlager
Thanks for your feedback..... I appreciate your thoughts.
However, I would like to highlight that the information that was provided was by an experienced industrial relations lawyer - who is not associated with QF at all.
Food for thought really.
Thanks for your feedback..... I appreciate your thoughts.
However, I would like to highlight that the information that was provided was by an experienced industrial relations lawyer - who is not associated with QF at all.
Food for thought really.
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Seen it all before
There is no formalised process of renewal to permanent for fixed termers...its goodbye merit and hello personality.
I also support Qantas Long Haul crew in their efforts for an ethical workplace.
Arm_Doors you might like to check this out at the FAAA:
A Dream Shattered
I also support Qantas Long Haul crew in their efforts for an ethical workplace.
Arm_Doors you might like to check this out at the FAAA:
A Dream Shattered
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yellow rocket, if you provide PPRuNe Admin with your full name and verifiable home address, we might consider the naming of this individual to stand.
Until such time, I have edited your post to avoid legal action being taken against PPRuNe.
You can not hide behind anonymity yourself while posting serious allegations against named individuals and expect PPRuNe to take the flack.
flaps40
Until such time, I have edited your post to avoid legal action being taken against PPRuNe.
You can not hide behind anonymity yourself while posting serious allegations against named individuals and expect PPRuNe to take the flack.
flaps40
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Hi yellow rocket..
Wow what a great read...glad the FAAA kept that one
I'm sure the strike breakers would have looked LOVELY in first/business class in thier King Gees.I bet a few dreams were shattered by QF and their good & rewarding style of management (joke).
catch ya
Wow what a great read...glad the FAAA kept that one
I'm sure the strike breakers would have looked LOVELY in first/business class in thier King Gees.I bet a few dreams were shattered by QF and their good & rewarding style of management (joke).
catch ya
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Hi!!!
That is a great read, sad but.......
I noticed that whoever had written that letter kept mentioning that they were wanting a full time position? Surely they didn't take the 3 month contract expecting full time? The answer to that was obvious before they applied. The media had it everywhere, L/H were going to strike and all of a sudden QF wanted to train new recruits for positions only lasting 3 months, surely this would have sent alarm bells ringing???? I feel really sad for these people, but unfortunately it is only a sign of the times?
Good luck to all
Oz
That is a great read, sad but.......
I noticed that whoever had written that letter kept mentioning that they were wanting a full time position? Surely they didn't take the 3 month contract expecting full time? The answer to that was obvious before they applied. The media had it everywhere, L/H were going to strike and all of a sudden QF wanted to train new recruits for positions only lasting 3 months, surely this would have sent alarm bells ringing???? I feel really sad for these people, but unfortunately it is only a sign of the times?
Good luck to all
Oz
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Fixed termers
I love it how in the letter the contracted individual comlained about security.
I would never expect security in the first place going into a "three month, only go to work if called, wearing a polo shirt and midnight training" position.
Doesn't or wouldn't Qantas have many spare Qantas uniforms to dish out? Why fit them in polo shirts? Would this be to match their service and safety to offer? I ask this because we (QantasLink) have heaps of spares and I imagine mainline to have hundreds more.
Surely a three month contract is enough to give it away, especially with all the rumours floating? Or perhaps the quick training at ridiculous hours could help them 'cotton on' that they were to be used as scabs?
Look, I know its sad, but its easy to see Qantas were quickly able to hire all the naive and 'slower to comprehend what's going on' people out there.
Its nice to see them willing to join the union NOW, once the **** has hit the fan. Funny to cry a poor story when you need help. Why not before? I joined the union when I started flying two years ago because of the unknown future in the industry, not the 'I need them NOW' attitude and to be a member to help keep my award the way it is, keep the union going successfully etc...
i believe these applicants knew what they were doing (going against Qantas cabin crew and the FAAA as strike breakers - how could it not be obvious) and NOW go to the union for help once THEIR tush is on the line (not QFs FAs now) and pretend they didn't know a thing. It all comes down to the desparados who would do anything to fly.
This is shattering news as we are after full time positions not just for a week or two and then left out in the cold with no job and no security
We thought that the Qantas image was professional and corporate and something to be proud to wear but what we were fitted for was of a very poor dress standard.
was given a contract for a three months fixed term for training under the proviso that I not have any other employment during this time. Three months isn't long but I thought ok – I've got my foot in the door and there may be a chance of maybe getting a full time position if I pass all the training. But at that stage, I was unaware of what Qantas' intentions were. Therefore I agreed, I was in a group of wonderful people. We all trained so hard, as this was our dream and we wanted it so badly even with training at ridiculous hours.
Look, I know its sad, but its easy to see Qantas were quickly able to hire all the naive and 'slower to comprehend what's going on' people out there.
Its nice to see them willing to join the union NOW, once the **** has hit the fan. Funny to cry a poor story when you need help. Why not before? I joined the union when I started flying two years ago because of the unknown future in the industry, not the 'I need them NOW' attitude and to be a member to help keep my award the way it is, keep the union going successfully etc...
i believe these applicants knew what they were doing (going against Qantas cabin crew and the FAAA as strike breakers - how could it not be obvious) and NOW go to the union for help once THEIR tush is on the line (not QFs FAs now) and pretend they didn't know a thing. It all comes down to the desparados who would do anything to fly.
Last edited by Galley Power; 9th Nov 2004 at 02:55.
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Naive? Slow?
Hey Galley Power,
Just wanted to make you aware that not all of the 3 month contract staff are 'Naive' and 'Slow to comprehend'. I agree, maybe some are, but you get those people anywhere you work.
I have never used this site before, and upon reading what you wrote, I must admit I felt a little insulted.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to go in attacking you because I too believe that the contracted 'strikebreakers' have no reason to complain.
I underwent the same training in the dead of the night, it never bothered me and I never complained.
I knew what I was in for, I knew about the striking, in fact I think I was pretty quick to 'cotton on' to everything.
We were getting paid to do a job.... it was a win-win situation. QF get staff on standby, we get paid and have fun in the process.
Not to mention blitzing EP exams in the space of a week! Some people did better than others, basically because they are intelligent and quick to 'cotton on'.
So please think about what you write before posting, we're all different and shouldn't be labelled with blanket statements. It's not really fair on people.
I'm sure some other people in my situation feel the same way.
If anyone has any questions, feel free to PM me.
Cheers,
Famelb21
Just wanted to make you aware that not all of the 3 month contract staff are 'Naive' and 'Slow to comprehend'. I agree, maybe some are, but you get those people anywhere you work.
I have never used this site before, and upon reading what you wrote, I must admit I felt a little insulted.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to go in attacking you because I too believe that the contracted 'strikebreakers' have no reason to complain.
I underwent the same training in the dead of the night, it never bothered me and I never complained.
I knew what I was in for, I knew about the striking, in fact I think I was pretty quick to 'cotton on' to everything.
We were getting paid to do a job.... it was a win-win situation. QF get staff on standby, we get paid and have fun in the process.
Not to mention blitzing EP exams in the space of a week! Some people did better than others, basically because they are intelligent and quick to 'cotton on'.
So please think about what you write before posting, we're all different and shouldn't be labelled with blanket statements. It's not really fair on people.
I'm sure some other people in my situation feel the same way.
If anyone has any questions, feel free to PM me.
Cheers,
Famelb21
