Qantas London base
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I don't mean to be repeditive about this, but I just can't put it to rest even though I know I prolly should cause it's just eating me up inside, but does Qantas actually employ people through Qantas anymore, or do you have to be willing to go through these shoddy cheap labour companies like MAM or Adecco, who employ New Zelanders and people who ARE NOT AUSTRALIAN! How come all these people are posting posts like Qantas long haul here I come, when here we are, AUSTRALIANS, who were supposed to be employed in those roles 18 months ago have been kicked out off the shortlist into the cold???????
I'd hate to think how many AUSTRALIANS there are out there who waited and waited and waited and were mucked around etc. by Qantas for 18 months with this short list rubbish. Getting our hopes up, then to dash them and hey, then open up a London base. WOW, WHAT A GREAT IDEA!!!!! And on top of that, after sending us the e-mail telling us they'd chucked us off the short list they send us an e-mail from MAM!!!!! How about joining us through CHEAP CASUAL LABOUR! Erm, what ever Qantas, this is not Australian spirit at all, and quite frankly, I can't start to describe how devistated I am. And I know I'm not the only one.
Anyway, I'm not meaning to offend anyone, especially not anybody who's employed through MAM or Adecco, cause it's not your fault, it's Qantas, the company, and it's terrible. Good for you who strike, the company needs to learn that it can't just treat AUSTRALIANS this way.
I'd hate to think how many AUSTRALIANS there are out there who waited and waited and waited and were mucked around etc. by Qantas for 18 months with this short list rubbish. Getting our hopes up, then to dash them and hey, then open up a London base. WOW, WHAT A GREAT IDEA!!!!! And on top of that, after sending us the e-mail telling us they'd chucked us off the short list they send us an e-mail from MAM!!!!! How about joining us through CHEAP CASUAL LABOUR! Erm, what ever Qantas, this is not Australian spirit at all, and quite frankly, I can't start to describe how devistated I am. And I know I'm not the only one.
Anyway, I'm not meaning to offend anyone, especially not anybody who's employed through MAM or Adecco, cause it's not your fault, it's Qantas, the company, and it's terrible. Good for you who strike, the company needs to learn that it can't just treat AUSTRALIANS this way.
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As I have stated on many occasions I am wholly of the view the FAAA and some hardline agitators in their ranks are about to lead the whole bleeding lot into a trap that has been a very long time in the planning. The FAAA isn't going to win this one. And QF aircraft will absolutely keep flying.
We are witnessing the end of the stranglehold this union has had on QF for too long.
We are witnessing the end of the stranglehold this union has had on QF for too long.
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Flying Sarah,
Unless you are willing to work through MAM, Adecco (Kiwi, Thai) or Qantas UK there is very little chance of getting a permanent position with QF now. All thats offered are casual or temp contracts.
Its disgracefull that Geoff Dixon stands there and states 'We have created 10,000 jobs for Australians over the past 10 years'. But what terms where offered Geoff? And how many of those 10,000 are still around after there contracts finished, or the individuals realised they couldn't survive on casual rates?
Its sad to think that young people today cannot even hope to get a job with the national carrier. Unless you are Thai, Kiwi or British of course!
JBM - I think you will find the FAAA are simply doing there job, which is too follow what the members vote for.
Don't forget there are 4000 long haul crew and if we strike for more that a few days the company will NOT be able to crew all the flights.
FLIGHTS WILL BE GROUNDED.
A union is exactly that. A union of worked 'united' in there beliefs and rights to protect their conditions. If the company refuses to back down on there want to lift the overseas cap, then as a 'union' of employees we will go on strike. We will do it legally and give the company the required amount of notice of out intention.
If the strike lasts for more than a few days the shareholders will be asking Geoff Dixon if the financial loss through grounded aircraft (hundred of millions $) verses the pidly $18m a year saving is worth it?
Unless you are willing to work through MAM, Adecco (Kiwi, Thai) or Qantas UK there is very little chance of getting a permanent position with QF now. All thats offered are casual or temp contracts.
Its disgracefull that Geoff Dixon stands there and states 'We have created 10,000 jobs for Australians over the past 10 years'. But what terms where offered Geoff? And how many of those 10,000 are still around after there contracts finished, or the individuals realised they couldn't survive on casual rates?
Its sad to think that young people today cannot even hope to get a job with the national carrier. Unless you are Thai, Kiwi or British of course!
JBM - I think you will find the FAAA are simply doing there job, which is too follow what the members vote for.
Don't forget there are 4000 long haul crew and if we strike for more that a few days the company will NOT be able to crew all the flights.
FLIGHTS WILL BE GROUNDED.
A union is exactly that. A union of worked 'united' in there beliefs and rights to protect their conditions. If the company refuses to back down on there want to lift the overseas cap, then as a 'union' of employees we will go on strike. We will do it legally and give the company the required amount of notice of out intention.
If the strike lasts for more than a few days the shareholders will be asking Geoff Dixon if the financial loss through grounded aircraft (hundred of millions $) verses the pidly $18m a year saving is worth it?
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Flying Sarah,
I can see where your coming from ,but lets face it ,NZ is only East Bondi.As for other foreigners ,they may have language skills unlike most of us aussies.I think these days you need a mixture of crew who between them can communicate with the non english speakers.
Also labour companies are becoming a bigger deal probably for one reason----logistics.
Its not cheap labour--Qantas probably pay them roughly what they pay a Qantas employee but the agent take their piece of the action and pay you less.
Mining and other companies do the same,having a percentage of staff through an agency.After a while when others leave they get offered a permanent position---IF--they are good workers ,dont have too many days off etc .Reason being--these days its damn near impossible to fire someone----wrongful dismissal ,harrassment etc. Many jobs are advertised these days as casual for 6 months with chances of permanent work for these such reasons.
Also if there is a downturn the "temps" get put off to save the redundancies and other ramifications
Maybe not an ideal world for some,especially the worker ,but i can see a reasoning.
And as for industrial action mentioned in other threads ,its lucky Qantas dont have too many.They are far and few between and only have an impact for a short time,usually for a reasonable reason ,but well timed for the busy periods.
Ive worked for a large mining company and along with the oppositon strikes were a common occurence.I think we were second in mentality to the builders and the wharfies.
We would strike over the wrong flavoured icecream at work etc,about 5 different unions on the one site which would affect the whole show if just one was on holidays.
Friday morning meetings were a strike (get a long weekend).then people moaning by midweek if still out.
More or less could work out the result by when meetings were held ,number of boats on trailers waiting to head to coast etc.
The writing was on the wall------come a lean period,then a list of redundancies-----no law about that just cost them a lot of money.
Next-------offered work place agreements with a 10% payrise as a carrot.Many accepted while others didnt.Work continued as per normal,nothing changed,then the ones that didnt sign gradually worked out that why do the same job for less.In the end there was only a small minority of hardened unionists left and they havent got any power.
OK ,a few things have changed--only break in 12 1/2 hour shift is 1/2 hour for lunch,but can have a fatigue break(lucky they preach safety).There is a fair treatment scheme which if not settled through the channels ends up in courts.
But its not the cruel world where your getting shat on-----work is work.
Downfall for others is that with continuous production not as much people and machinery needed and now with a huge upturn employing like hell ,but once again, a percentage through agencies for a quick get out if things go pear shaped.
Thats bussiness i suppose.
Lost track here----point is.Dont get too cocky and think your safe.Upset the powers to be and anything can happen.Also how many are 100% unionated----you would be surprised to see if the carrot was dangled--------but your safe as your unions dont have much industrial action.
I accepted it and if things changed too much would have to consider options--stay here for $95g and benifits for a 44 hour week or go work for contactors for $50g---------or $80g ,but for a 72 hour week.
And the bottom line is----look at your own country.wages conditions etc.Sure ,others pay more but i see none of you trying to get into Garuda.
I can see where your coming from ,but lets face it ,NZ is only East Bondi.As for other foreigners ,they may have language skills unlike most of us aussies.I think these days you need a mixture of crew who between them can communicate with the non english speakers.
Also labour companies are becoming a bigger deal probably for one reason----logistics.
Its not cheap labour--Qantas probably pay them roughly what they pay a Qantas employee but the agent take their piece of the action and pay you less.
Mining and other companies do the same,having a percentage of staff through an agency.After a while when others leave they get offered a permanent position---IF--they are good workers ,dont have too many days off etc .Reason being--these days its damn near impossible to fire someone----wrongful dismissal ,harrassment etc. Many jobs are advertised these days as casual for 6 months with chances of permanent work for these such reasons.
Also if there is a downturn the "temps" get put off to save the redundancies and other ramifications
Maybe not an ideal world for some,especially the worker ,but i can see a reasoning.
And as for industrial action mentioned in other threads ,its lucky Qantas dont have too many.They are far and few between and only have an impact for a short time,usually for a reasonable reason ,but well timed for the busy periods.
Ive worked for a large mining company and along with the oppositon strikes were a common occurence.I think we were second in mentality to the builders and the wharfies.
We would strike over the wrong flavoured icecream at work etc,about 5 different unions on the one site which would affect the whole show if just one was on holidays.
Friday morning meetings were a strike (get a long weekend).then people moaning by midweek if still out.
More or less could work out the result by when meetings were held ,number of boats on trailers waiting to head to coast etc.
The writing was on the wall------come a lean period,then a list of redundancies-----no law about that just cost them a lot of money.
Next-------offered work place agreements with a 10% payrise as a carrot.Many accepted while others didnt.Work continued as per normal,nothing changed,then the ones that didnt sign gradually worked out that why do the same job for less.In the end there was only a small minority of hardened unionists left and they havent got any power.
OK ,a few things have changed--only break in 12 1/2 hour shift is 1/2 hour for lunch,but can have a fatigue break(lucky they preach safety).There is a fair treatment scheme which if not settled through the channels ends up in courts.
But its not the cruel world where your getting shat on-----work is work.
Downfall for others is that with continuous production not as much people and machinery needed and now with a huge upturn employing like hell ,but once again, a percentage through agencies for a quick get out if things go pear shaped.
Thats bussiness i suppose.
Lost track here----point is.Dont get too cocky and think your safe.Upset the powers to be and anything can happen.Also how many are 100% unionated----you would be surprised to see if the carrot was dangled--------but your safe as your unions dont have much industrial action.
I accepted it and if things changed too much would have to consider options--stay here for $95g and benifits for a 44 hour week or go work for contactors for $50g---------or $80g ,but for a 72 hour week.
And the bottom line is----look at your own country.wages conditions etc.Sure ,others pay more but i see none of you trying to get into Garuda.
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hi there...this is my 1st post on here..Just a quick intro...been flying for a number of years as a f/a and still thoroughly enjoy my job...like anyone i do have the occassional whinge.
When I was first told about pprune...I was skeptical....then i read through alot of the topics and I was hooked!!!...The QF LHR basing topic was like a soap opera...it took me a few hours to read it all!!!
Anyway!...My 2 cents
People have to understand one thing...The FAAA is not advocating any kind of hard line militant stance...It is not forcing anyone to act inappropriate...They are merely doing their jobs by representing us...its members...They have a very good team of people and 2 Industrial officers who know what they are talking about...Everything actioned will be WITHIN THE LAW...We are ultimately fighting for RESPECT...Hell yeah!...I'm scared about industrial action, but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!...Sometimes you have to get up and fight for what you believe is right....Remember...IT's ALL ABOUT THE CAP-370.
thank you for letting me have a go
When I was first told about pprune...I was skeptical....then i read through alot of the topics and I was hooked!!!...The QF LHR basing topic was like a soap opera...it took me a few hours to read it all!!!
Anyway!...My 2 cents
People have to understand one thing...The FAAA is not advocating any kind of hard line militant stance...It is not forcing anyone to act inappropriate...They are merely doing their jobs by representing us...its members...They have a very good team of people and 2 Industrial officers who know what they are talking about...Everything actioned will be WITHIN THE LAW...We are ultimately fighting for RESPECT...Hell yeah!...I'm scared about industrial action, but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!...Sometimes you have to get up and fight for what you believe is right....Remember...IT's ALL ABOUT THE CAP-370.
thank you for letting me have a go
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jbm [the virgin blue fa 
],
yes your hysterical anti FAAA rantings are becoming a little boring.
Just what effects on QF have the FAAA had, given the strangle hold you assert?
Details, not lunatic rantings please.
L2P
],yes your hysterical anti FAAA rantings are becoming a little boring.
Just what effects on QF have the FAAA had, given the strangle hold you assert?
Details, not lunatic rantings please.
L2P
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cabinfever
The one thing the FAAA is forgetting, is probably up to 400 of it's MEMBERS wish to go to LHR, the FAAA is supposed to represent all members, and yes the thought of industrial action is a scary one, but the FAAA should remember they will not get compliance for industrial action for those who wish to go to LHR - we see it as a great opportunity ..... I am a member, but as I wish to go to LHR base, I will not take industrial action to stop the base happening ..... nor will anyone else considering the opportunity now, or considering it after the first two year contracts are finished ....more and more people are wanting to go .... yes that may be bad for those not wanting to go .... but the cap expires in December, the company wil never,never,never re-negotiate it . that is clear... so let those wanting to take the opportunity take it !! The thing the FAAA should be fighting for is better conditions for those Aussie crew who wish to go there, they should be supporting ALL members .... those of us wanting to go to LHR pay the same FAAA (recently hiked) fees as everyone else..
The one thing the FAAA is forgetting, is probably up to 400 of it's MEMBERS wish to go to LHR, the FAAA is supposed to represent all members, and yes the thought of industrial action is a scary one, but the FAAA should remember they will not get compliance for industrial action for those who wish to go to LHR - we see it as a great opportunity ..... I am a member, but as I wish to go to LHR base, I will not take industrial action to stop the base happening ..... nor will anyone else considering the opportunity now, or considering it after the first two year contracts are finished ....more and more people are wanting to go .... yes that may be bad for those not wanting to go .... but the cap expires in December, the company wil never,never,never re-negotiate it . that is clear... so let those wanting to take the opportunity take it !! The thing the FAAA should be fighting for is better conditions for those Aussie crew who wish to go there, they should be supporting ALL members .... those of us wanting to go to LHR pay the same FAAA (recently hiked) fees as everyone else..
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Don't you just love how teachers, nurses, foxtel workers, cab drivers, train drivers, bus drivers, librarians (the list goes on...) can strike at the drop of a hat. And people generally support their cause. Yet cabin crew (who have had one stint at industrial action in the recent future) are branded as "spolit" and "princesses" with a gung-ho, militant union out to ruin the company!
The FAAA has taken far less industrial action than many other unions in the transport/service industry.
My two cents.
The FAAA has taken far less industrial action than many other unions in the transport/service industry.
My two cents.
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Q-Tee
Will the QF girls and boys from Oz (like yourself) wanting to go to LHR operate under the EXACT same EBA Terms and conditions as they presently do/will do come next EBA?
Will the QF girls and boys from Oz (like yourself) wanting to go to LHR operate under the EXACT same EBA Terms and conditions as they presently do/will do come next EBA?
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Q-Tee,
The FAAA cannot represent any UK based crew. You would need to join a union in the UK. As you will be aware you will be working for Qantas UK not Qantas Australia. Terms and conditions are totally different. More work, less pay.
I doubt there are 400 long haul crew wanting to go to LHR. There are some but I feel the vast majority will come from short haul.
Why would the FAAA fight on your behalf for better terms and conditions? The opening of an LHR base will result in a huge pay decrease for Australian based crew and if you want to go to LHR then you will have to live with the terms given by QF UK.
As you are a member of the FAAA I suggest you do some research into 'Protected Industrial Action' before saying you will not take industrial action.
I just heard Christmas booking are down, maybe QF will negotiate the cap?
The FAAA cannot represent any UK based crew. You would need to join a union in the UK. As you will be aware you will be working for Qantas UK not Qantas Australia. Terms and conditions are totally different. More work, less pay.
I doubt there are 400 long haul crew wanting to go to LHR. There are some but I feel the vast majority will come from short haul.
Why would the FAAA fight on your behalf for better terms and conditions? The opening of an LHR base will result in a huge pay decrease for Australian based crew and if you want to go to LHR then you will have to live with the terms given by QF UK.
As you are a member of the FAAA I suggest you do some research into 'Protected Industrial Action' before saying you will not take industrial action.
I just heard Christmas booking are down, maybe QF will negotiate the cap?
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What exactly will these LHR base Qantas UK cabin crew be paid?
Do people actually realise how extraordinarily expensive London is? For example my little room at the end of the runway is just about AUS$1000 per month. No, I have not added an extra zero at the end of that, and I still have to share that place with 5 other people, $1000 is just for one measley room!
If QF UK are going to pay these cabin crew less than what QF Australia cabin crew get paid, then I'm afraid they just won't be able to live, it's as plain and simple as that, and I wouldn't suggest anybody give up their good paying job at QF Australia to move to Qantas UK!
Do people actually realise how extraordinarily expensive London is? For example my little room at the end of the runway is just about AUS$1000 per month. No, I have not added an extra zero at the end of that, and I still have to share that place with 5 other people, $1000 is just for one measley room!
If QF UK are going to pay these cabin crew less than what QF Australia cabin crew get paid, then I'm afraid they just won't be able to live, it's as plain and simple as that, and I wouldn't suggest anybody give up their good paying job at QF Australia to move to Qantas UK!
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Hi Flying Sarah 747,
The wage for Australian based crew working in the UK for a temporary period of two years if just over 24,000 Pounds. If you are an English person applying directly the pay is 18,000 pounds.
This includes long range sector pay and is based on an average roster. You also get meal allowences of approx 30 pounds per day.
How does whats being offered compare to BA?
The wage for Australian based crew working in the UK for a temporary period of two years if just over 24,000 Pounds. If you are an English person applying directly the pay is 18,000 pounds.
This includes long range sector pay and is based on an average roster. You also get meal allowences of approx 30 pounds per day.
How does whats being offered compare to BA?
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Of shore hire
I dont agree with the the UK crew base ! I feel if this is going to happen and the cap of 370 lifted it will be the start of of somthing big..The current QF will not be what it is today. I dont care what Q-Tee is saying..If this person wants to go to London good luck but dont expect the union to try and improve the working conditions or increase wages.. Take what is being offerd since it is your joice to go an work for QF UK !! I hope all the crew stick together as I know the ground staff are in full support of the QF crew,..If they can do this to crew nobody will be safe..Stick together and somthing positive might come about!!
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Well, the 24 000 pounds sounds alright, I guess it's comparable to what you can earn at LHR Eurofleet, maybe a little less, but you can earn way more at LHR World Wide, which I assume is the same type of flying QF UK will be doing. Is it better than what you can earn at QF Australia???
The 18 000 pounds I think would be a little hard to live on though, but at least it's guarenteed, and not based on allowences and what trips you get.
None the less, I still think this LHR base sucks!
One more question...If you join QF UK, are there any chances of being transfered to an Australian base?
The 18 000 pounds I think would be a little hard to live on though, but at least it's guarenteed, and not based on allowences and what trips you get.
None the less, I still think this LHR base sucks!
One more question...If you join QF UK, are there any chances of being transfered to an Australian base?
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Be Aware that Q TEE is not a longhaul flight attendant but rather a management representative who uses this forum and others to push the company barrow.Her comments are designed to sway those who are undecided. Q T stands for Qantas Tout.
Just wait for the howls of protest and denial
Just wait for the howls of protest and denial
even if Q-tee were what you say, it doesn't mean she can't have good points to add to the discussion: on the contrary, they would show the two sides of it. Surely it is then up to others, if it's the case, to disprove their point using logic and reason. Just because she (allegedly is) a manager doesn't make it useless by definition.
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The FAAA will negotiate agreements for the benefits of it's members - this is true.
However!!! It is also a business, funded by members of the FAAA who's interests may not necessarily agree and coincide with each other.
There is no way the FAAA will support the UK base. By having a UK base, newly recruited cabin crew will become members of a foreign union (if represented at all), and Australian based FAAA members taking up the UK basing option will not be paying their FAAA fees as they won't be members of the FAAA.
This means a loss of revenue for the FAAA. Not exactly brain surgery is it?
Whilst I understand and respect Q-Tee's wishes to expand his/her horizons and gain an experience that has not ever been afforded before - do not do so at the expense of your colleagues and FUTURE colleagues.
QF is already implementing strategies to weaken the strength of the FAAA. It is important that crew stay unified and strong in order to achieve a positive result.
SG
However!!! It is also a business, funded by members of the FAAA who's interests may not necessarily agree and coincide with each other.
There is no way the FAAA will support the UK base. By having a UK base, newly recruited cabin crew will become members of a foreign union (if represented at all), and Australian based FAAA members taking up the UK basing option will not be paying their FAAA fees as they won't be members of the FAAA.
This means a loss of revenue for the FAAA. Not exactly brain surgery is it?
Whilst I understand and respect Q-Tee's wishes to expand his/her horizons and gain an experience that has not ever been afforded before - do not do so at the expense of your colleagues and FUTURE colleagues.
QF is already implementing strategies to weaken the strength of the FAAA. It is important that crew stay unified and strong in order to achieve a positive result.
SG
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Well said Syd Girl!...We need to stick together if we are to beat these so called strategies which are attempting to undermine our conditions...
Remember ITS ALL ABOUT THE CAP-370
Remember ITS ALL ABOUT THE CAP-370
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Argusmoon
I think that your use of the appellation 'Qantas Tout' is offensive and juvenille. The use of the noun 'tout' implies some underhand espionage activities that Q-Tee is allegedly conducting on the part of QF management. You advance no evidence to support that proposition.
I have no axe to grind in this dispute - my profile is who/what I am. However, what concerns me is that I think we're about to see a re-run of previous bitter disputes (Ansett, Jetstar etc) in the aviation industry, where the union is split, and its membership turns on either each other or non union labour.
A UK comparison is the 1983 Miners' Strike. I understand there are mining communities in Northern England where to this day, hatred still runs deep and former friends, neighbours and colleagues refuse to speak to each other.
This, of course, plays into Management's hands.
I don't think the Union case is assisted by the posting of rude, offensive and potentially divisive material in an anonymous forum such as this. In doing so, it 'flags' to Management that the Union is deeply divided - a position that Management will then exploit via the 'divide and rule' principle.
Q T stands for Qantas Tout.
I have no axe to grind in this dispute - my profile is who/what I am. However, what concerns me is that I think we're about to see a re-run of previous bitter disputes (Ansett, Jetstar etc) in the aviation industry, where the union is split, and its membership turns on either each other or non union labour.
A UK comparison is the 1983 Miners' Strike. I understand there are mining communities in Northern England where to this day, hatred still runs deep and former friends, neighbours and colleagues refuse to speak to each other.
This, of course, plays into Management's hands.
I don't think the Union case is assisted by the posting of rude, offensive and potentially divisive material in an anonymous forum such as this. In doing so, it 'flags' to Management that the Union is deeply divided - a position that Management will then exploit via the 'divide and rule' principle.
Last edited by Argus; 17th Jul 2004 at 23:16.