Qantas London base

[TSSOV]

Butterfield8 - That sounds SO childish. QF CC are being payed to do their job. If they have an interest in industial action, persue it legally. All those 'tactics' you have listed are probable grounds for a formal/written warning... a few more steps down that road and you wont have a job! I know some of you find what QF are doing to the CC life is immoral, but playing dirrty (yes.... christina style) is going to get you fired. CC dont have as much power as pilots do (unfortunately).

How silly BF8!!!


emu enema - I like youre style

[pucci dreaming]

breaking news -
the oversea cap -BY DEFAULT - is now 650
no need to negotiate
thanks to the big dummy spit by FAAA officials - 650 australian jobs have gone offshore.

200 fully paid up members of the FAAA decided to take up the London option. When they approached THEIR UNION -which is their right - they were told to "get stuffed".
Not only wouldn't the FAAA not help improve the ostensibly ardous conditions on the proposed base (so much for solidarity) -they stuck there head in the sand and said -"it won't happen" - "the few , the few, will only take the "offer'...200 is not a few
the London base was a 'fait accompli ' a long time ago -it is a reasonable decision made by a global company to stay in profit- just a reality check - Delta Airlines this week are asking their pilots to take salary cuts and they are no longer paying into the pension plan of any of their employees!

no, Our union officials were much to busy talking to the media about going on strike at Xmas. Following some weird Bush/ Howard apoproach to industrial relations -the FAAA attempted a PRE- EMPTIVE STRIKE by utilising the media to air their grievances -( rather than talking to the mushroom membership)
Nothing like giving the Company SEVEN MONTHS notice before you take strike action! Absolutely awesomre boys!
now what do we do?
As usual when we want information about our job security - we read the sydney morning herald -and today we're told that Jetstar Asia is launched - it will have 40 aircraft servicing the Asia/Pacific region and will link up with its "sister" airline Jetstar aust. - starting to feel like the wagons are being surrounded - I am!
Has the FAAA got any committment from the company about stopping Australian airlines & Jetstar from cannabilisin gour routes?? Surely they have... I just haven't cleared my file for that notice!
Meanwhile, back at the ranch - Union officials are pontificating that (quote) "There is a very small minority of crew who wish to blame everyone else for unfavorable outcomes"
Official - heal thyself!
so -we've still got 370 loiterers in BKK & AKL which could be easily negotiated out in the life of EBA 7&8 - the company would agree to this = or else PUT AUSTRALIANS ON THE BKK & AKL BASES!
Through productivity increases -$40 m for de-crewing & $27M forLHR base -cabin are in a powerful position to bargain .
And what's this crap about a 3% CPI increase and another dud 3% bonus
where did the FAAA get this mandate to negotiate such pathetic, blousey and woosy increases?
the membership wants nothing LESS than a 66% wage increase in line with the non- exec directors -we also want a pro rata share distribution to each f/a equivalent to what geoff & gregg are getting
the only way to off set the lose of allowances and long range penalties by not flying to London anymorew - is to massively increase the base pay of f/as.
Cain crew put $70m on the table -what other department can say similar?

Oh yeh - by denying the reality of the london base - this band of FAAA officials has intentionally or not - allowed 280 Australian jobs go to UK NATIONALS - an absolute disgarce !!
tell the company to re -open the books - allow those who wish to go -go with FAAA blessing - then and only then - maybe the Company will put the airbus chip back on the table -and we can really start talking turkey about this multi - headed Hydra -called the EBA
this has gone way beyond the london base - and we all know it - the union admits the cap issue id dead in the water -we are now scrambling to salvage anything worthwhile by DEC 18.
Meanwhile, back at the Sussex St barricades- "Right, how many tins of condensced milk do you reckon we'll need till geoff's on his knees pleading for us to come back to work......"

[Butterfield8]

Pucci Dreaming

Whatever you are on.....Halve the dosage

[SydGirl]

pucci dreaming,

The exact number of crew to submit an "expression of interest" ie. an INTEREST not a firm undertaking; is actually 148. This number is made up of a combination of both long and shorthaul crew as well as CSM's and CSS's.

FYI there were more shorthaul expressions of interest accepted than there were longhaul.

Interesting.

Frankly, if I were a part of the LH FAAA (which is in place to assist its financial members), I too would not recommend that members accept any London offer. Why on earth would the FAAA support a move which will potentially reduce their membership; and therefore financial member base?

They may be mad, but they aren't totally insane.

Personally, I can't ever see QF coming to the party in regards to allowing their LH FAs a 66% pay increase and a pro rata share distribution. It just won't happen. Don't mean to be a nay-sayer but let's be a little more realistic here.

Best wishes to all LH crew.
SG

[GalleyHag]

Ms Grant put out a notice yesterday in regard to this issue, I read this today on the CC website. It makes interesting reading.

[Butterfield8]

Black Widow's Message?

Galley Hag
The Black Widow's message is interesting reading only if you like reading propaganda
Q.How do you know when The Black Widow is lying?
A.When her lips are moving

[galley_gossiper]

From the above post from the FAAA website:

we moved substantially to accommodate the Company in relation to the proposed London Base

So much for striking to stop the Lhr Base!

The FAAA are negotiating with the view to it happening, so obviously the FAAA execs have no doubt that the base will happen.

The cookie is starting to crumble

[pucci dreaming]

apologies to you Butterfield 8 - I'm actually up the track - in the middle of a trip -and am suffering serious jet lag/ sleep deprivation symptoms which sometimes send me into overdrive - likewise its a bit of a dud crew - no one going out - so I've only got my mates online at pprune -sad really when your life is reduced to an on line chat room....

and as for SYDGIRL - 148 applicants you reckon - and where did you get that figure from??

these dodgey figures are exactly part of the problem here
the FAAA launched with doom & gloom messages of "1000 Australian jobs going offshore"
The figure 1000 was never mentioned ANYWHERE - in ANY literature that the membership has seen -"make up a number boys - that should scare them!"
by releasing dodgey and rubbery figures to the media - we lost all credibility with journalists and politicians
then we hear that the big, mean , nasty management team are going to open bases in joburg( our f/as will be raped & murdered), LA ( we''ll be forced to listen to rap music all day in our standown) and Mumbai (can I get a second job working in a telephone call centre for Coles- Myer?)
1000 jobs were never going offshore - yesterday - the FAAA gave 280 to UK nationals - live with it
(sorry Butterfield 8 - I'm rambling - I'll try & get some sleep- happens when you actually fly long haul - rather than just sit in glass houses....)

[Left2primary]

pucci dreaming,

I'd suggest that you had better reduce the dosage by 3/4.

Are you COMPLETELY unaware of the leaked QF documents that indicate QF wish to move to 25% of the longhaul CC workforce based offshore?????

You really are quite uninformed.

L2P "screw the roo"

Oh, BTW. Interesting to see lots of brand new posters on here talking about screw the roo!!!

Methinks that the trough feeders are now starting to blink and grunt at each other VERY nervously.

[CC Forum Moderators]

This is an extremely important matter, affecting the future of Qantas and the livelihood and quality of life of a large number of Qantas FAs. As such, it is fortunate that PPRuNe offers a platform where this issue can be debated extensively, honestly and heatedly.

Open and honest debate is an important tool.
By dragging the debate down to gutter level, some people here are in effect atempting to stifle such debate.
Knowing full well from when they signed up for this free service that PPRuNe can not and will not allow posts that contain material which is obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, unlawful, abusive, intimidating, libelous, indecent, illegal or otherwise violative of any laws.
...... for example, intent to fornicate a marsupial is not something we wish to be informed of here....

PPRuNe has no intention of allowing a brain-cell-challenged minority to derail this debate.
You, and you know who you are, are hereby warned.
Post as described above will be removed without notice, and the poster will be banned from further thread participation.


CC Forum Moderators

[Left2primary]

This info via the International FAAA.

Important "food for thought" for international FAs and those wishing to be.

L2P "screw the roo"

------------------------------------------------------

1 October 2004

Attention Qantas Long Haul and Australian Airlines Flight Attendants

FEDERAL ELECTION 2004

The FAAA usually does not usually publicly endorse either side of politics in a Federal Election campaign, although we have occasionally indicated our preference in relation to the Industrial Relations policies of the major parties.

However, on this occasion, we believe it is important that the FAAA takes a stand and strongly recommend that cabin crew support the ALP.

Cabin crew would be aware of the tremendous imbalance of power that exists between employees and the employer, brought about by the Howard Government's Industrial legislation. This means that during the life of an EBA a union is prevented from any form of legal industrial action even if the employer blatantly breaches an EBA or other agreements. Also, the present Government supports the extension of individual work contracts throughout the economy.

The ALP has committed to the abolishment of the ability to have individual contracts and will also empower the Australian Industrial Relations Commission (the umpire) to have more extensive powers to deal with disputes.

We also believe that the ALP is much more sympathetic to our fight to prevent Qantas from offshoring our jobs overseas._

We urge crew to carefully consider these issues and to take a practical step to support the party, which will protect their industrial interests and job security.

[ferris]

I find it fascinating that the company (qantas) considers it important enough to run anti-FAAA posts on this site (as an outsider, even blind freddy can work it out).

Does qantas think pprune so important in winning the 'hearts and minds'?

Will enough of the F/As fall for it? How stupid does the management consider it's employees?

Is the cost of such activities reflected anywhere in the company reports? I mean, it doesn't matter whether the resources are in-house or 'consultants' or 'pr firms', they are still expending shareholders funds on the campaign.

Kudos to 'prune. I'd be asking for payment, though.

[CC Forum Moderators]

ferris
You may choose to believe that QF are posting here, but you don't know that for sure: Nor do any of the CC mods, nor anybody else - the point being that, although it is entirely possible, or even likely, none of us know that for a fact!

Even if QF are posting here, providing they do so within the rules of PPrune, then they are actively contributing to the debate. A debate, by definition, requires at least two points of view - It is then up to those on each side to win the debate by virtue of making their case better than the opposition. PPrune encourages debate, and the freedom to post unpopular or minority views (provided they keep to the site rules) - That is, after all, why Pprune exists, and why so many visit us.

Over to you....

[galley_gossiper]

ferris

Which do you think is more likely?

a) QF management would pose as cabin crew to deliver a message to the small number of QF crew who visit this site.

b) there are some cabin crew out here who disagree with the FAAAs approach to the Lhr base?

I would fully expect QF management to read sites like this, but for them to take the rantings of some of the [supposed]crew on here seriously enough to waste time pretending to be crew well I think that unlikely. I would expect less than 5% of qf crew read and/or contribute to this forum. Every crew member got Lesley's propaganda in their mailbox. That sort of message is a bit more effective in reaching the masses, than this site.
The simple fact is that there are crew, like myself, who think that the FAAA has gone down the wrong road on the Lhr base, and trust me will be making that very clear if the FAAA is stupid enough to call a strike. This 'screw the roo' campaign. Well it quite frankly disgusts me. If anyone has had the chance to read the 'Screw the Roo' emails that are sent out, then they would realise to follow that movement's suggestions would be Screwing Yourself Out Of A Job.
I am a flight attendant, and am very proud to work for this company, no I certainly do not agree with lots of things management have chosen to do in the recent past, we are not the great airline we once were because of a lot of the decisions made. We arent even a patch on the great airline I joined. But I am still proud of the people I work with.

[pucci dreaming]

L2P - thanks for that info re "How to vote"

before that, I was actually going to vote for Kerry.

Seriously, I've already decided that I will be voting for the Greens, or maybe, at a pinch - the Democrats

does this faaa MANAGEMENT team allow for any dissent amongst the rank & file

if I choose not to vote Labor -will I be sent to the faaa GULAG - the perth base???

[argusmoon]

Pucci Dreaming

The Medication you are using appears not to be working.The post from L2P was actually a cut and paste from the FAAA website.An active reading course may be appropriate considering your circumstances

[emu enema]

hi girlfriends!

L2P & leemo , talk to the hand
so, whose joining us for lunch in brissy for the AGM?
you cyber space revolutionaries are talking the talk but are you prepared to fly to BNE to put your opinion across face to face?

the girls will be doing lunch at the hilton 12.30 sharp .they still have the all you can eat seafood buffet for $25 .this will be washed down with a couple of bottles of cloudy bay and then its off to the convention centre to give marg & geoff a huge spray about the immoral and outrageous salary and share packages they are asking for.
actually some of the girls want to check out new recruit jamie packer. yes we know he has a rough head, but he's kind of cute in a billionaire sort of way. and he's single.

and remember
when in doubt

don't S.T.R.
rather

E-T-E !!

[ferris]

galley-gossiper, sima, pucci-dreaming and whatever iterations you take:

ferris
Which do you think is more likely?

I'm not sure. I am sure your posts run a common thread ie. threatening strike action is wrong. Conversely, you advocate a "negotiated settlement". The trouble is; you say in one post that, basically, the company can just hand out the individual contracts any time it doesn't like the way things are going. So how does the F/A body negotiate if it has no position to negotiate from ? You keep talking about the FAAA as some fatuous entity. The FAAA IS the F/As. The FAAA can negotiate until they are blue in the face, but if QF management has, as you say, decided there will be more overseas based crew, then that is hardly negotiation, is it? What other way can the F/As shift QF from it's intractable position without hurting the bottom line ie. withdrawing labour? Why does the LHR base have to be au fait accompli? Just because management says so?
Your intimation that management holds all the cards, and that the FAAA should just be fighting a rear-guard action to salvage whatever it can out of the battle, gives you away.
The F/As strength will be in their unity. That has yet to be tested. It's obvious that the psychological aspect of 'divide and conquer' has begun. It will be interesting to watch.

[argusmoon]

Wildcat

Wildcat resistance is the most effective way to press home a point.No doubt some PPruners have used this to good effect in the past.

[galley_gossiper]

no ferris, your assumption is wrong.

I dont believe strike action is wrong, I have been involved in it in the past, including that last stop work meeting.
I just think that it is a 'kamakaze' effort this time round, the company is too prepared, and we will be locked out if we take strike action.They have enough people on their books to last longer than cabin crew without money. I guess one missed pay packet around Christmas time will be enough to send most crew back to work. And you are right, QF holds most of the cards at the moment, we should be focussing on the few cards we have, not the majority the company holds. The Lhr base is going to happen, it is in writing that we the f/as agreed to the overseas based crew cap expiring in december. Those who voted for that EBA made a bad choice. We should be looking at using Lhr as a negotiating tool for other things, not trying to stop something that is legally unstoppable !I have said the way I personally think the FAAA should have approached negotiations, and have tried to say it the the execs of the FAAA, they arent interested. I dont have the same view of pucci dreaming about the current execs of the FAAA, but I still dont think they have approached this right, nor do I think they have the support for strike action. The FAAA have put it in the media that we will take industrial action from december, a lot of members will not follow those running the FAAA just so as those people can save face.