Qantas London base
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Striking stuff
L2,
good to see your still being your aggressive paranoid self. Can you actually fathom that perhaps some of the people who write comments on here that aren't hell bent on striking etc are actually cabin crew and not "QCC cubical sitters"!!
I love the comments made by some people on here saying that we need the public to support us in our time of need and get the media involved.
Lets just consider something....QF crew announce that right on Christmas time we are going to walk off the job due to the fact that some of our work is being taken off us due to a new base opening up. We would love the public to understand our plight but for a bunch of you, due to the industrial action you probably wont make it overseas for that once in a lifetime holiday, or sorry, you wont get to spend christmas with your family etc etc.
You seriously think that you will get ANY support??? Your kidding yourself.
As for calling the "fixed termers" scabs I dont get the mentality for that. A friend of mine who has wanted to be a F/A for years has been given the chance to do this. She doesnt or never has worked for QF or any other airline, she is so excited that the opportunity has been put out there for her and like every other fixed termer, is hoping that maybe, just maybe, she will get a full time job out of this - but if not she is getting the chance to live a dream of being a hostie for 11 months. How is she a scab?? Because her name was on a list and applied for a job??
As for ground staff doing it, same situation. So many of the guys would love to fly but haven't got in - so here is their opportunity.
Scabs is a very inappropriate term for these people.
If you have a gripe it should be directed at the FAAA.
They have done bugger all. Look at the short haul "galaxy service" that has been introduced. Its an OHS nightmare, but the FAAA supported it and they have the nerve to put out letters saying that they are having certain things changed. The FAAA did bugger all - crew did it through literally 1000's of ICANS.
The FAAA has alot to answer - more so than the company.
good to see your still being your aggressive paranoid self. Can you actually fathom that perhaps some of the people who write comments on here that aren't hell bent on striking etc are actually cabin crew and not "QCC cubical sitters"!!
I love the comments made by some people on here saying that we need the public to support us in our time of need and get the media involved.
Lets just consider something....QF crew announce that right on Christmas time we are going to walk off the job due to the fact that some of our work is being taken off us due to a new base opening up. We would love the public to understand our plight but for a bunch of you, due to the industrial action you probably wont make it overseas for that once in a lifetime holiday, or sorry, you wont get to spend christmas with your family etc etc.
You seriously think that you will get ANY support??? Your kidding yourself.
As for calling the "fixed termers" scabs I dont get the mentality for that. A friend of mine who has wanted to be a F/A for years has been given the chance to do this. She doesnt or never has worked for QF or any other airline, she is so excited that the opportunity has been put out there for her and like every other fixed termer, is hoping that maybe, just maybe, she will get a full time job out of this - but if not she is getting the chance to live a dream of being a hostie for 11 months. How is she a scab?? Because her name was on a list and applied for a job??
As for ground staff doing it, same situation. So many of the guys would love to fly but haven't got in - so here is their opportunity.
Scabs is a very inappropriate term for these people.
If you have a gripe it should be directed at the FAAA.
They have done bugger all. Look at the short haul "galaxy service" that has been introduced. Its an OHS nightmare, but the FAAA supported it and they have the nerve to put out letters saying that they are having certain things changed. The FAAA did bugger all - crew did it through literally 1000's of ICANS.
The FAAA has alot to answer - more so than the company.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: sydney
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its been stated here that the FAAA held meetings to (quote) "gain direction from the membership".
I attended one of the meetings and I can assure you that the Union executive arrived at the hall with an already worked out agenda of stop work and strike action -already worked out !
They simply wanted it RUBBER STAMPED by the 1/4 of the membership who bothered to turn up.
The tone & style of this union execcutive is one of intimidation & bullying - to harangue & harrass is their modus operandi -just ask any FAAA member who has had the misfortune to ring Sussex st and inform one of the execcutive that they intended to take up the london offer (some of the team were obviously in the office when the company explained the EEO principles in the workplace.) This aggressive& abusive verbal behaviour is more akin to the old BLF or the Painters and Dockers Unions of yore.
This is dinosaur industrial disputation and its adherents -will go theway fo the dinosaurs
As I mentioned earlier - the FAAA has to re- invent itself.
In future -all meetings where we have to vote on serious issues such as protracted industrial action - should be held BY SECRET BALLOT.
A SHOW OF HANDS IN A HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT IS NO TRUE INDICATION OF THE MEMBERSHIPS' FEELINGS.
Meanwhile -the FAAA EBA VII SURVEY FOR LOGHAUL
init we are confidently told that it will "take you just a minute to complete......" well if that's the case - no ones thinking to hard in flying land -or else the union is going to ignore your input anyway.
The questions are as rhetorical , transparent and meaningless as those of the Company's Hewitt survey -(did the FAAA use Hewitt?)
This executive attempted a radical boots & all bluff on the company by going early to the media and threatening strike action - it has back fired big time.
Now go back to the negotiating table boys - see if you can dig youself out of the hole you have self created -(painting oneself into a corner is another image that comes to mind)
-the non executive directors want a 66% pay rise - well -so do cabin crew ! we've put $65m on the table in productivity savings through the de crewing & allowing of the LHR base to go forward.
-cabin crew also want performance bonuses similar to middle management - we have reached all targets -we should have sent the $1000 back and said - get real - we're getting in for our chop too -just like our management role models!
I attended one of the meetings and I can assure you that the Union executive arrived at the hall with an already worked out agenda of stop work and strike action -already worked out !
They simply wanted it RUBBER STAMPED by the 1/4 of the membership who bothered to turn up.
The tone & style of this union execcutive is one of intimidation & bullying - to harangue & harrass is their modus operandi -just ask any FAAA member who has had the misfortune to ring Sussex st and inform one of the execcutive that they intended to take up the london offer (some of the team were obviously in the office when the company explained the EEO principles in the workplace.) This aggressive& abusive verbal behaviour is more akin to the old BLF or the Painters and Dockers Unions of yore.
This is dinosaur industrial disputation and its adherents -will go theway fo the dinosaurs
As I mentioned earlier - the FAAA has to re- invent itself.
In future -all meetings where we have to vote on serious issues such as protracted industrial action - should be held BY SECRET BALLOT.
A SHOW OF HANDS IN A HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT IS NO TRUE INDICATION OF THE MEMBERSHIPS' FEELINGS.
Meanwhile -the FAAA EBA VII SURVEY FOR LOGHAUL
init we are confidently told that it will "take you just a minute to complete......" well if that's the case - no ones thinking to hard in flying land -or else the union is going to ignore your input anyway.
The questions are as rhetorical , transparent and meaningless as those of the Company's Hewitt survey -(did the FAAA use Hewitt?)
This executive attempted a radical boots & all bluff on the company by going early to the media and threatening strike action - it has back fired big time.
Now go back to the negotiating table boys - see if you can dig youself out of the hole you have self created -(painting oneself into a corner is another image that comes to mind)
-the non executive directors want a 66% pay rise - well -so do cabin crew ! we've put $65m on the table in productivity savings through the de crewing & allowing of the LHR base to go forward.
-cabin crew also want performance bonuses similar to middle management - we have reached all targets -we should have sent the $1000 back and said - get real - we're getting in for our chop too -just like our management role models!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
L2P
The only time I sit in a cubicle at Qcc is when I go to the loo before sign on at Qcc1
Reading back on your posts, you seem to brand anyone who does not agree with striking as 'management' or 'pro-management'.If that is your only come-back to crew who have a differing opinion to you then it is pretty lame.
There are a huge variety of opinions amongst us at the moment, and everyone is entitled to their own.
As I have said, I do not agree with the Lhr base, I will lament the loss of my Lhr trips. I just do not have the same opinion as you regarding the handling of the situation by the FAAA. I do however see that management have been very crafty and clever in their handling of this base in Lhr, and wish the FAAA hadnt given them the opportunity to prepare so well.
Oh, and if there were 1000 members at the meetings, it is hardly representative of long haul cabin crew. Where were the other 2,900 (or however many crew we have these days). As I have said, in my opinion QF have a force prepared to hold out longer than the crew during a strike. On top of that, they have the power to shift most of our flying away from us in the future and crush our division. Do we have an agreement that longhaul will crew the doubledecker airbus? Or will management use that aircraft as yet another way to shrink long haul? These are issues that concern me far more than the Lhr base. I worry that a strike or 'screw the roo' mentality over the Lhr base will eventually destroy Long Haul.
Deal with the fact that there are other opinions out there to your own, and I have as much right to my opinion as you.
The only time I sit in a cubicle at Qcc is when I go to the loo before sign on at Qcc1
Reading back on your posts, you seem to brand anyone who does not agree with striking as 'management' or 'pro-management'.If that is your only come-back to crew who have a differing opinion to you then it is pretty lame.
There are a huge variety of opinions amongst us at the moment, and everyone is entitled to their own.As I have said, I do not agree with the Lhr base, I will lament the loss of my Lhr trips. I just do not have the same opinion as you regarding the handling of the situation by the FAAA. I do however see that management have been very crafty and clever in their handling of this base in Lhr, and wish the FAAA hadnt given them the opportunity to prepare so well.
Oh, and if there were 1000 members at the meetings, it is hardly representative of long haul cabin crew. Where were the other 2,900 (or however many crew we have these days). As I have said, in my opinion QF have a force prepared to hold out longer than the crew during a strike. On top of that, they have the power to shift most of our flying away from us in the future and crush our division. Do we have an agreement that longhaul will crew the doubledecker airbus? Or will management use that aircraft as yet another way to shrink long haul? These are issues that concern me far more than the Lhr base. I worry that a strike or 'screw the roo' mentality over the Lhr base will eventually destroy Long Haul.
Deal with the fact that there are other opinions out there to your own, and I have as much right to my opinion as you.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SYD
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No one is prepared to speak out at public meetings for fear of being lynched if your view differs.
Given the survey is somewhat a secret ballot, people may feel more comfortable in speaking out.
There has to be a better way and I just hope that the union actually has a good look at other options.
And can I just say, its nice to read an alternative point of view - makes the debate far more balanced.
Given the survey is somewhat a secret ballot, people may feel more comfortable in speaking out.
There has to be a better way and I just hope that the union actually has a good look at other options.
And can I just say, its nice to read an alternative point of view - makes the debate far more balanced.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sima,
Im interested in why you bother to opine on this thread given that you are a short haul flight attendant???
WE this.........WE that????
Hello..........It doesnt affect you.
You seem to be under the impression that the proposed London base means nothing more than one less port for Longhaul to fly to.
Well it doesnt.
It spells the end of fulltime longhaul flight attendant positions for Australians residing in Australia for YEARS to come.
"The villiage idiot" was quoting 5 years.
Are you so uninformed as to not be aware of the leaked QF documents spelling out their plans to move to 25% offshore based crew???
How many 744's do you think 150 CC will be able to cover.
Even with the attrocious conditions being "offered" in the proposed LHR base it wouldnt cover a quarter of the flying we do out of there.
The rest are planned to be made up of UK nationals on further reduced pay and conditions.
FACT.
"SCAB"
As defined by the Webster dictionary-
A nickname for a workman who engages for lower wages than are fixed by the trades unions; also, for one who takes the place of a workman on a strike.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
Sums up perfectly those people who willingly choose to undermine the conditions of longhaul FAs by working during our dispute.
Thats why QF move them around in buses with blacked out windows and keep them upline in secret hotels.
Because scabs are the lowest forms of life.
You whinge about people's "dreams" of being a longhaul FA so surely, even you, can see the irony in those same people, undermining the conditions of the job they so want, by scabbing.
Well, maybe you cant, but PLENTY of others will.
Oh BTW. I have NEVER called the fixed termers scabs rather I have correctly opined that QF wish toi use them as such.
Can you make the distinction.
No? Well Im sure others can.
The FAAA and galaxy??????
Are you so uninformed as to be unaware that the Longhaul and shorthaul FAAA are entirely different animals?
You bag the Longhaul FAAA because of some QF inspired SHORTHAUL disaster called "Galaxy"???
PLEASE do all of us a favour by posting on subjects of which you have SOME understanding.
Please also tell your friends that if they dont want to BE scabs they dont HAVE to work during our dispute.
Simple really.
L2P
Im interested in why you bother to opine on this thread given that you are a short haul flight attendant???
WE this.........WE that????
Hello..........It doesnt affect you.
You seem to be under the impression that the proposed London base means nothing more than one less port for Longhaul to fly to.
Well it doesnt.
It spells the end of fulltime longhaul flight attendant positions for Australians residing in Australia for YEARS to come.
"The villiage idiot" was quoting 5 years.
Are you so uninformed as to not be aware of the leaked QF documents spelling out their plans to move to 25% offshore based crew???
How many 744's do you think 150 CC will be able to cover.
Even with the attrocious conditions being "offered" in the proposed LHR base it wouldnt cover a quarter of the flying we do out of there.
The rest are planned to be made up of UK nationals on further reduced pay and conditions.
FACT.
"SCAB"
As defined by the Webster dictionary-
A nickname for a workman who engages for lower wages than are fixed by the trades unions; also, for one who takes the place of a workman on a strike.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
Sums up perfectly those people who willingly choose to undermine the conditions of longhaul FAs by working during our dispute.
Thats why QF move them around in buses with blacked out windows and keep them upline in secret hotels.
Because scabs are the lowest forms of life.
You whinge about people's "dreams" of being a longhaul FA so surely, even you, can see the irony in those same people, undermining the conditions of the job they so want, by scabbing.
Well, maybe you cant, but PLENTY of others will.
Oh BTW. I have NEVER called the fixed termers scabs rather I have correctly opined that QF wish toi use them as such.
Can you make the distinction.
No? Well Im sure others can.
The FAAA and galaxy??????
Are you so uninformed as to be unaware that the Longhaul and shorthaul FAAA are entirely different animals?
You bag the Longhaul FAAA because of some QF inspired SHORTHAUL disaster called "Galaxy"???
PLEASE do all of us a favour by posting on subjects of which you have SOME understanding.
Please also tell your friends that if they dont want to BE scabs they dont HAVE to work during our dispute.
Simple really.
L2P
Last edited by Left2primary; 28th Sep 2004 at 10:23.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No offence to your opinion L2P, but I have been in much discussions with a lot of fellow long haul crew of late, including about 30 of us at lunch today- the good old traditional mid week boozy cabin crew lunch of old times. 
Talk obviously turned to the proposed strike, not one person said they would be willing to strike over the Lhr base.If you think that Long haul crew are united and ready to strike, then you are seriously delusional. Most want protection from further bases, and assurance of our continued flying on all international sectors, not to stop the Lhr base.The FAAA execs are out on a limb here, and regardless of your mindless strike mentality, they will not have the members' support over xmas. I hope they do not call a strike, they will ruin our division if they do. Again just my opinion, but today's lunch confirmed to me that I am not alone amongst us 'oldies'. If the most senior of us can see the wrong direction we are going in, then you have no chance that the juniors will walk.
Talk obviously turned to the proposed strike, not one person said they would be willing to strike over the Lhr base.If you think that Long haul crew are united and ready to strike, then you are seriously delusional. Most want protection from further bases, and assurance of our continued flying on all international sectors, not to stop the Lhr base.The FAAA execs are out on a limb here, and regardless of your mindless strike mentality, they will not have the members' support over xmas. I hope they do not call a strike, they will ruin our division if they do. Again just my opinion, but today's lunch confirmed to me that I am not alone amongst us 'oldies'. If the most senior of us can see the wrong direction we are going in, then you have no chance that the juniors will walk.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
galley gossiper - the FAAA clearly stated in meetings re: proposed industrial action that this direction was only being taken due to the company's desire to remove the overseas cap.
Around the country almost 1000 crew attended the meetings and all but a couple voted on paper that they supported the FAAA. If any crew who voted yes to industrial action are now saying they won't support the FAAA then all I can say is that there will no point in them calling the FAAA next year when:
The company targets seniority - Mark Hassell has stated he wants to do away with the currenty bid system and introduce a BA, Australian type system i.e you are given a roster and if you don't like it, tough.
The company targets allowances - Mark Hassell has also informed the FAAA he want to remove the allowance system and replace it with a $5000 yearly payment.
If ALL crew don't stand up to the company re: the removal of the cap then we will have no power at all when the company targets seniority and allowances.
Around the country almost 1000 crew attended the meetings and all but a couple voted on paper that they supported the FAAA. If any crew who voted yes to industrial action are now saying they won't support the FAAA then all I can say is that there will no point in them calling the FAAA next year when:
The company targets seniority - Mark Hassell has stated he wants to do away with the currenty bid system and introduce a BA, Australian type system i.e you are given a roster and if you don't like it, tough.
The company targets allowances - Mark Hassell has also informed the FAAA he want to remove the allowance system and replace it with a $5000 yearly payment.
If ALL crew don't stand up to the company re: the removal of the cap then we will have no power at all when the company targets seniority and allowances.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
galleygossiper,
Oh,.......... but I dont fly to LHR.
Oh,.......... but I dont fly on A330s/767s.
Lets hope for the good of ALL longhaul FAs that the totally clueless amongst us "wake up and smell the roses", real quick.
L2P "screw the roo"
Oh,.......... but I dont fly to LHR.
Oh,.......... but I dont fly on A330s/767s.
Lets hope for the good of ALL longhaul FAs that the totally clueless amongst us "wake up and smell the roses", real quick.
L2P "screw the roo"
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...
L2P,
one thing i'll give you is that your passionate. Misdirected passion, but nonetheless you have it. Now, if only you could channel your energy for good rather than evil.......
one thing i'll give you is that your passionate. Misdirected passion, but nonetheless you have it. Now, if only you could channel your energy for good rather than evil.......
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sima,
if you feel that my [and many others] passionate feelings re the maintenance of present and FUTURE, AUSTRALIAN Longhaul cabin crew's conditions are evil, well thats just fine.
I'll take your definition of evil, over clueless, any day.
L2P "screw the roo"
if you feel that my [and many others] passionate feelings re the maintenance of present and FUTURE, AUSTRALIAN Longhaul cabin crew's conditions are evil, well thats just fine.
I'll take your definition of evil, over clueless, any day.
L2P "screw the roo"
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh BTW.
Those new QF inspired posters bemoaning the upcoming dispute, need really not worry.
QF have trained up [10 000, at last count wasn't it??] a workforce to operate in our place once the ****e hits the fan, havn't they??????
So none of the travelling public remotely face being disrupted over the festive season.........................
Yeah, like fcuk they wont.
The clock is ticking..............................................
Methinks the trough feeders ought to have a meaningful discussion with Michael, Andrew and Steven, real quick.
L2P "screw the roo"
Those new QF inspired posters bemoaning the upcoming dispute, need really not worry.
QF have trained up [10 000, at last count wasn't it??] a workforce to operate in our place once the ****e hits the fan, havn't they??????
So none of the travelling public remotely face being disrupted over the festive season.........................
Yeah, like fcuk they wont.
The clock is ticking..............................................
Methinks the trough feeders ought to have a meaningful discussion with Michael, Andrew and Steven, real quick.
L2P "screw the roo"
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: australia
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
roo rooter
Hey L2P,
have you got a roo rooting fetish?
I am waiting....waiting...for you to say something nice on here.
C'mon, humor me. Say something nice...anything..please?
I reckon there is a soft gooie side to you..let it out!!
sima.
p.s. Dont upset me, i know as a L/H you sometime pax on our flights...lots of yucky thing go on in galleys to pax's food you know!! I'M JOKING!!
have you got a roo rooting fetish?
I am waiting....waiting...for you to say something nice on here.
C'mon, humor me. Say something nice...anything..please?
I reckon there is a soft gooie side to you..let it out!!
sima.
p.s. Dont upset me, i know as a L/H you sometime pax on our flights...lots of yucky thing go on in galleys to pax's food you know!! I'M JOKING!!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sima,
Iv'e taken the liberty of cutting and pasting a post I made a while a go that may go a long way to help to explain to myself and other just why you are here, and just what are your motives.
Please answer the questions within-
L2P "screw the roo".
posted 16th September 2004 11:18 ___ _ _ __ _
sima,
goodness me we are a pro company/anti [longhaul???] CC little one aren't we????
Which floor do you work on, QCC4 or QCC5 ?
Im a little confused about your angle.
Is it that you support "The spirit of Australia's" move to employ 100's of UK nationals as flight attendants, and if so why?
Does it also please you that hundreds of longhaul flight attendants face being forced from their jobs if their ability to do regional flying is removed, and if so why?
All of these moves of course being made at the same time as QF reports its largest profit ever and the "pigs at the trough" are voting themselves a 66% pay rise.
Answers to above questions please.
L2P
Iv'e taken the liberty of cutting and pasting a post I made a while a go that may go a long way to help to explain to myself and other just why you are here, and just what are your motives.
Please answer the questions within-
L2P "screw the roo".
posted 16th September 2004 11:18 ___ _ _ __ _
sima,
goodness me we are a pro company/anti [longhaul???] CC little one aren't we????
Which floor do you work on, QCC4 or QCC5 ?
Im a little confused about your angle.
Is it that you support "The spirit of Australia's" move to employ 100's of UK nationals as flight attendants, and if so why?
Does it also please you that hundreds of longhaul flight attendants face being forced from their jobs if their ability to do regional flying is removed, and if so why?
All of these moves of course being made at the same time as QF reports its largest profit ever and the "pigs at the trough" are voting themselves a 66% pay rise.
Answers to above questions please.
L2P
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From www.faaa.net
Attention all Qantas Long Haul Attendants
29 September 2004
NEGOTIATIONS BREAK DOWN OVER OVERSEAS BASES AND DIVISIONAL FLYING
I wish to inform the membership that intensive and lengthy negotiations over many weeks between the FAAA and Qantas in regard to the overseas bases issue and divisional flying concluded on 27 September 2004 without agreement being reached.
We indicated to you in a newsletter dated 21 September that the FAAA has gone out of its way to compromise with the Company in an attempt to reach a reasonable outcome. In our discussions and negotiations with Qantas we moved substantially to accommodate the Company in relation to the proposed London Base even though the FAAA remains strongly opposed in principle to offshoring our jobs overseas.
We adopted a pragmatic and practical approach and attempted to obtain sufficient guarantees in relation to compulsory redundancies that might affect Australian based crew, a cap on overseas based crew numbers not limited to the date of expiration of the EBA and ongoing access for our crew to LHR patterns.
We have also bent over backwards to accommodate the Company’s needs to have flexible arrangements in relation to who crews international flights, particularly in relation to the Airbus A330. We simply asked that a portion of international flying be guaranteed for long haul crew on the A330 and the 767 and that an agreement be legally enforceable (i.e. that an agreement be included in the EBA rather than being contained in an unenforceable document where any guarantees could be rendered useless if Qantas chose to walk away from the agreement).
We also asked that in return for a 3% wage increase for each year of operation of a new EBA, that a one off bonus payment of 3% be paid to crew.
The Company has rejected all of our proposals. It cannot be said that the FAAA has not been constructive or accommodating in our negotiations with Qantas. We are not prepared however, to put forward a totally inadequate package to crew that lacks the most basic protections. This in the context of a Company that has made a record profit and where restraint in relation to executive salaries and bonuses is non-existent.
There will be no sell out of cabin crew by this leadership of the FAAA. The only way that any inadequate Company proposals would be accepted by the FAAA is if you (the membership) with full knowledge of the implications and repercussions of accepting such proposals actually direct the FAAA to accept the Company’s position.
The feedback from the membership meetings two months ago and the EBA VII surveys received by the FAAA to date indicate that you are overwhelmingly prepared to stand up and fight for your job security.
WHY WILL THE CURRENT CAP OF 370 ON OVERSEAS BASED CREW EXPIRE ON 17 DECEMBER 2004?
EBA VI, which was recommended to you last year by both Qantas and previous senior officials of the FAAA, provides for the expiry of any restriction on overseas bases on 17 December 2004.
Clause 17.4 of EBA VI states, “the Company commits to ensuring that the number of crew employed in overseas bases will be no more than 370 up until 17 December 2004.”
Crew upon recommendation by Qantas and former senior FAAA officials approved EBA VI by a 53% to 47% margin.
WHY IS THE COMPANY ABLE TO ALLOCATE ALL INTERNATIONAL FLYING ON THE AIRBUS A330 TO SHORT HAUL?
EBA VI, which was recommended to you by both Qantas and previous senior officials of the FAAA, did not provide for any guaranteed access to A330 international flying to Long Haul.
ARE THE REFERENCES TO CREW APPROVING EBA VI A NONE TOO SUBTLE REMINDER THAT RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUTCOMES RESTS WITH NOT ONLY THE FAAA BUT ALSO CABIN CREW?
Absolutely. There is a very small minority of crew who wish to blame everyone else for unfavourable outcomes. An even smaller minority seem to suggest that they are not prepared to fight for their job security but nevertheless seem to believe in magic wand solutions where the media, the government, the other unions etc fight our fight and deliver us from the “nasty intentions” of Qantas.
THE WAY FORWARD
Crew will have to decide what is important and what is worth fighting for in the coming weeks. The current leaders of the FAAA will provide leadership, full and accurate information and we will recommend a course of action in relation to the issues in this newsletter and indeed the full EBA agenda confronting us.
We intend to use the remaining time before the current EBA expires to commence formal EBA negotiations with Qantas. We will continue to do our utmost to attempt to achieve an acceptable outcome without recourse to industrial action. However, we will not recoil from recommending legally protected industrial action if that becomes unavoidable because we are not in the business of repeating the fiasco of EBA VI where cabin crew were sold a “dud” deal that has come back to bite all of us.
In the final analysis all of us will be responsible for the outcomes we achieve later this year because no one will be able to say that they were not aware of the issues or to say that the FAAA this time, misled them.
Finally, we are receiving the first returns from the EBA VII Survey. The initial returns are very heartening because they indicate that crew are prepared to stand up and fight for their legitimate concerns. We will notify you of the results of the survey after it closes on 8 October 2004. We urge every one of you to participate in the EBA survey.
The time for apathy is over – YOUR VERY JOBS AND THE QUALITY OF YOUR FLYING CAREER DEPEND ON A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME IN THE FORTHCOMING EBA NEGOTIATIONS.
Written and authorised by Michael Mijatov – Secretary International Division
Attention all Qantas Long Haul Attendants
29 September 2004
NEGOTIATIONS BREAK DOWN OVER OVERSEAS BASES AND DIVISIONAL FLYING
I wish to inform the membership that intensive and lengthy negotiations over many weeks between the FAAA and Qantas in regard to the overseas bases issue and divisional flying concluded on 27 September 2004 without agreement being reached.
We indicated to you in a newsletter dated 21 September that the FAAA has gone out of its way to compromise with the Company in an attempt to reach a reasonable outcome. In our discussions and negotiations with Qantas we moved substantially to accommodate the Company in relation to the proposed London Base even though the FAAA remains strongly opposed in principle to offshoring our jobs overseas.
We adopted a pragmatic and practical approach and attempted to obtain sufficient guarantees in relation to compulsory redundancies that might affect Australian based crew, a cap on overseas based crew numbers not limited to the date of expiration of the EBA and ongoing access for our crew to LHR patterns.
We have also bent over backwards to accommodate the Company’s needs to have flexible arrangements in relation to who crews international flights, particularly in relation to the Airbus A330. We simply asked that a portion of international flying be guaranteed for long haul crew on the A330 and the 767 and that an agreement be legally enforceable (i.e. that an agreement be included in the EBA rather than being contained in an unenforceable document where any guarantees could be rendered useless if Qantas chose to walk away from the agreement).
We also asked that in return for a 3% wage increase for each year of operation of a new EBA, that a one off bonus payment of 3% be paid to crew.
The Company has rejected all of our proposals. It cannot be said that the FAAA has not been constructive or accommodating in our negotiations with Qantas. We are not prepared however, to put forward a totally inadequate package to crew that lacks the most basic protections. This in the context of a Company that has made a record profit and where restraint in relation to executive salaries and bonuses is non-existent.
There will be no sell out of cabin crew by this leadership of the FAAA. The only way that any inadequate Company proposals would be accepted by the FAAA is if you (the membership) with full knowledge of the implications and repercussions of accepting such proposals actually direct the FAAA to accept the Company’s position.
The feedback from the membership meetings two months ago and the EBA VII surveys received by the FAAA to date indicate that you are overwhelmingly prepared to stand up and fight for your job security.
WHY WILL THE CURRENT CAP OF 370 ON OVERSEAS BASED CREW EXPIRE ON 17 DECEMBER 2004?
EBA VI, which was recommended to you last year by both Qantas and previous senior officials of the FAAA, provides for the expiry of any restriction on overseas bases on 17 December 2004.
Clause 17.4 of EBA VI states, “the Company commits to ensuring that the number of crew employed in overseas bases will be no more than 370 up until 17 December 2004.”
Crew upon recommendation by Qantas and former senior FAAA officials approved EBA VI by a 53% to 47% margin.
WHY IS THE COMPANY ABLE TO ALLOCATE ALL INTERNATIONAL FLYING ON THE AIRBUS A330 TO SHORT HAUL?
EBA VI, which was recommended to you by both Qantas and previous senior officials of the FAAA, did not provide for any guaranteed access to A330 international flying to Long Haul.
ARE THE REFERENCES TO CREW APPROVING EBA VI A NONE TOO SUBTLE REMINDER THAT RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUTCOMES RESTS WITH NOT ONLY THE FAAA BUT ALSO CABIN CREW?
Absolutely. There is a very small minority of crew who wish to blame everyone else for unfavourable outcomes. An even smaller minority seem to suggest that they are not prepared to fight for their job security but nevertheless seem to believe in magic wand solutions where the media, the government, the other unions etc fight our fight and deliver us from the “nasty intentions” of Qantas.
THE WAY FORWARD
Crew will have to decide what is important and what is worth fighting for in the coming weeks. The current leaders of the FAAA will provide leadership, full and accurate information and we will recommend a course of action in relation to the issues in this newsletter and indeed the full EBA agenda confronting us.
We intend to use the remaining time before the current EBA expires to commence formal EBA negotiations with Qantas. We will continue to do our utmost to attempt to achieve an acceptable outcome without recourse to industrial action. However, we will not recoil from recommending legally protected industrial action if that becomes unavoidable because we are not in the business of repeating the fiasco of EBA VI where cabin crew were sold a “dud” deal that has come back to bite all of us.
In the final analysis all of us will be responsible for the outcomes we achieve later this year because no one will be able to say that they were not aware of the issues or to say that the FAAA this time, misled them.
Finally, we are receiving the first returns from the EBA VII Survey. The initial returns are very heartening because they indicate that crew are prepared to stand up and fight for their legitimate concerns. We will notify you of the results of the survey after it closes on 8 October 2004. We urge every one of you to participate in the EBA survey.
The time for apathy is over – YOUR VERY JOBS AND THE QUALITY OF YOUR FLYING CAREER DEPEND ON A SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME IN THE FORTHCOMING EBA NEGOTIATIONS.
Written and authorised by Michael Mijatov – Secretary International Division
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: sydney
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
just terrific - so ONCE AGAIN! - our union execs have stormed out of a company /union meeting.....
it was acceptable to the membership for our newly elected reps to blame "previous senior officials" -once -maybe twice - but that's it ! - if you blokes can't handle the 'bargaining ' aspect of an 'EBA' - then get out of the kitchen - and use our hard earned membership fees to employ some serious expertise -our livehoods are way to important to be left in the hands of hot headed amateurs.
the latest union notice re - breakdown in negottiations smacks of a Pontius Pilot move for this regime to blame everything on past union reps -'it is beyong my control'-its all your fault, you silly members for voting this way last EBA..
knee jerk intransigence & threats of mindless industrial militancy -will get us no where-
now grow up - pick your bat & ball up -& get back to the negotiating table - otherwise its off to the corner with you -and we'll find someone else to play with (and represent us!)
it was acceptable to the membership for our newly elected reps to blame "previous senior officials" -once -maybe twice - but that's it ! - if you blokes can't handle the 'bargaining ' aspect of an 'EBA' - then get out of the kitchen - and use our hard earned membership fees to employ some serious expertise -our livehoods are way to important to be left in the hands of hot headed amateurs.
the latest union notice re - breakdown in negottiations smacks of a Pontius Pilot move for this regime to blame everything on past union reps -'it is beyong my control'-its all your fault, you silly members for voting this way last EBA..
knee jerk intransigence & threats of mindless industrial militancy -will get us no where-
now grow up - pick your bat & ball up -& get back to the negotiating table - otherwise its off to the corner with you -and we'll find someone else to play with (and represent us!)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pucci dreaming,
"knee jerk intransigence & threats of mindless industrial militancy -will get us no where"
Dont worry.
QF have an "army" of ready and willing scabs to operate in our place so your concerns about militancy are SURELY groundless.........................?
Tic toc, tic toc, tic toc.........................................
L2P "screw the roo"
"knee jerk intransigence & threats of mindless industrial militancy -will get us no where"
Dont worry.
QF have an "army" of ready and willing scabs to operate in our place so your concerns about militancy are SURELY groundless.........................?
Tic toc, tic toc, tic toc.........................................
L2P "screw the roo"
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Bundeena(AUSTRALIA)
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Justifiable Anger
We make economic and family decisions based mainly on our future income...our salary/wages.Some of these decisions are long term(mortgages)and require stable earnings.Any change can be enormously unsettling.If this change is unreasonable a logical response is both fear and anger.
If the reasons are not explained well, this anger can and will escalate.Hence talk of industrial action and the "Screw the Roo"campaign.Most longhaul flight attendants feel they have been conned by qantas management having agreed to a wage freeze and a reduction in crew numbers when things were tough.One would expect to be accordingly rewarded when things improve.
No adult likes being told what to do without consultation.QF management has made an artform of denying its employees bipartisan cooperation in moving the Company forward.While strike action is archaic so too is this style of management.Most American companies realized almost a decade ago that involving employees in the decision making process avoids wastefull confrontation,improves morale and ultimately leads to productivity increases at zero cost.
We have a confrontation that exists because of an outdated management style which in turn has resulted in an outdated response.As I see it the resultant anger has been given a name....Screw the Roo.Understandable given the circumstances.
Hopefully an amicable solution will be reached.If not, no one wins....Not Dixon,not the company,not the employees and least of all the travelling public who pay all(Dixon included) our wages
If the reasons are not explained well, this anger can and will escalate.Hence talk of industrial action and the "Screw the Roo"campaign.Most longhaul flight attendants feel they have been conned by qantas management having agreed to a wage freeze and a reduction in crew numbers when things were tough.One would expect to be accordingly rewarded when things improve.
No adult likes being told what to do without consultation.QF management has made an artform of denying its employees bipartisan cooperation in moving the Company forward.While strike action is archaic so too is this style of management.Most American companies realized almost a decade ago that involving employees in the decision making process avoids wastefull confrontation,improves morale and ultimately leads to productivity increases at zero cost.
We have a confrontation that exists because of an outdated management style which in turn has resulted in an outdated response.As I see it the resultant anger has been given a name....Screw the Roo.Understandable given the circumstances.
Hopefully an amicable solution will be reached.If not, no one wins....Not Dixon,not the company,not the employees and least of all the travelling public who pay all(Dixon included) our wages
Last edited by captainrats; 30th Sep 2004 at 01:21.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: sydney
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hi girlfriend!
we are a group of old longhaul boilers who can no longer complacently sit by and angry young whipper snappers SCREW THE ROO!
in our many years of flying we have seen and participated in some pretty kinky sex - but never bestiality! (ok there was that donkey that they bricked into my room in karachi , but we're just friends!)
there are those of us that feel it is an insult to our coat of arms to be attempting to SCREW THE ROO
to get some balance in the debate we say
FLUSH THE EMU!
we are not going to lie down & take it anymore!
what\'s the roo done to you and why do you want to bite the hand that feeds you?
we read that the beast is awakening and the beast is stirring.......and then the beast is having sex with our beloved skippy
screw the roo might be a nice name for a subsiduary airline - more original than jetstar -and it would have a mind boggling logo on the plane tail an f/a mounting a roo from behind -super
hatred of qantas management is about as useless as george bush\'s hatred of terrorism -
this war on management -strike action , is also as useless as george\'s war on terrorism
you can\'t go to war against abstract nouns such as management
or terrorist - its like pissing in the wind....
FLUSH THE EMU!
we are a group of old longhaul boilers who can no longer complacently sit by and angry young whipper snappers SCREW THE ROO!
in our many years of flying we have seen and participated in some pretty kinky sex - but never bestiality! (ok there was that donkey that they bricked into my room in karachi , but we're just friends!)
there are those of us that feel it is an insult to our coat of arms to be attempting to SCREW THE ROO
to get some balance in the debate we say
FLUSH THE EMU!
we are not going to lie down & take it anymore!
what\'s the roo done to you and why do you want to bite the hand that feeds you?
we read that the beast is awakening and the beast is stirring.......and then the beast is having sex with our beloved skippy
screw the roo might be a nice name for a subsiduary airline - more original than jetstar -and it would have a mind boggling logo on the plane tail an f/a mounting a roo from behind -super
hatred of qantas management is about as useless as george bush\'s hatred of terrorism -
this war on management -strike action , is also as useless as george\'s war on terrorism
you can\'t go to war against abstract nouns such as management
or terrorist - its like pissing in the wind....
FLUSH THE EMU!
