Qantaslink Progression Rumours or not???
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Qantaslink Progression Rumours or not???
I have recently been informed that due to Qantas no longer wishing to recruit full time permanent staff that obviously progression will no longer take place and that the unions should start thinking about other avenues of progression other than mainline..... ie if it comes to fruition.... progression to the new Qantas Domestic low budget airline.
I sincerely hope this is not true, if anyone can either confirm or deny this I would love to hear from you....
Cheers,
Pushback747
I sincerely hope this is not true, if anyone can either confirm or deny this I would love to hear from you....
Cheers,
Pushback747
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errrrrrr,
I think I just saw Cloud 9, QF skywalker, Qwannas, Mr Seatback 2 and ditzyboy jump off a tall building after reading that !
There is no way they could stop progession, as has been said before.......NEVER MESS WITH QFLINK CHICKS ! You'll never win !
Rather than progression into Jurassic park with all the old ducks I would rather see progression within the Qantaslink group - i.e - 717 crews being able to fly on DH8's etc and vice versa - that would keep things interesting don't you reckon ?
I can just see the abovementioned names all operating on one aircraft together.......$$$$$$$$$$$$hit !!
QF Skywalker
I think I just saw Cloud 9, QF skywalker, Qwannas, Mr Seatback 2 and ditzyboy jump off a tall building after reading that !
There is no way they could stop progession, as has been said before.......NEVER MESS WITH QFLINK CHICKS ! You'll never win !
Rather than progression into Jurassic park with all the old ducks I would rather see progression within the Qantaslink group - i.e - 717 crews being able to fly on DH8's etc and vice versa - that would keep things interesting don't you reckon ?
I can just see the abovementioned names all operating on one aircraft together.......$$$$$$$$$$$$hit !!
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Pushback,
Yes I have heard those rumours also. The thing that really concerns me is that apparently EVERYONE except the FA's were fully aware of this before we voted the eba in. Yes, QF and even the FAAA were fully aware of the fact that Qantas were not going to be employing permanent FA's for quiet some time ( possibly never). So that big progression carrot has done nothing at all. So when will those 18 FA's progress? Year 2080 maybe?
Don't want to sound so negative, just don't like being kept in the dark about certain issue's, especially something that is so important to my collegues and myself.
Yes I have heard those rumours also. The thing that really concerns me is that apparently EVERYONE except the FA's were fully aware of this before we voted the eba in. Yes, QF and even the FAAA were fully aware of the fact that Qantas were not going to be employing permanent FA's for quiet some time ( possibly never). So that big progression carrot has done nothing at all. So when will those 18 FA's progress? Year 2080 maybe?
Don't want to sound so negative, just don't like being kept in the dark about certain issue's, especially something that is so important to my collegues and myself.
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From what I remember the progression agreement is very clear they cant take that away from you, however it could also be a worthless document in today's market if for example QF only take on contract, casual and part-time for the next say 5 years than obviously no progression will occur. Just my 2 cents worth!!
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Yes, I have also heard the speculation over the future of QF Domestic and how it will impact on the Career Progression Agreement for the Regional FA's.
Interesting, the rumours that are flying around at the moment!
It doesnt look very bright for QF Domestic or (in the short term) for Regional FA's. It all depends on the decision that the QF Board make with regards to this new generic product and how they go about introducing it to the market! (If they choose to introduce a generic brand at all!) All will be revealed by November, I suppose.
But, my personal thoughts are, if QF Domestic are to shrink as a business (and eventually become 'boxed in') I would much rather be progressing to the low budget airline, where the growth is. I couldnt think of anything worse than being permanently stuck on the end of a line within an airline that still uses a dated bidding system for rostering. It really would be HELL. If they are going to change the business (from full service to largely budget) then there is nothing we can do about it.
My guess is, if they ARE going to start a low budget airline up - then they will use Impulse to do that, anyway. They already have the Operating Certificate.
We just have to do the wait and see.
Interesting, the rumours that are flying around at the moment!
It doesnt look very bright for QF Domestic or (in the short term) for Regional FA's. It all depends on the decision that the QF Board make with regards to this new generic product and how they go about introducing it to the market! (If they choose to introduce a generic brand at all!) All will be revealed by November, I suppose.
But, my personal thoughts are, if QF Domestic are to shrink as a business (and eventually become 'boxed in') I would much rather be progressing to the low budget airline, where the growth is. I couldnt think of anything worse than being permanently stuck on the end of a line within an airline that still uses a dated bidding system for rostering. It really would be HELL. If they are going to change the business (from full service to largely budget) then there is nothing we can do about it.
My guess is, if they ARE going to start a low budget airline up - then they will use Impulse to do that, anyway. They already have the Operating Certificate.
We just have to do the wait and see.
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Well - if you want to anger Link Chicks, this is the topic to do it...
I'm not aware of there being any changes to the Progression documents as they stand.
However, whilst I am not the guru with respect to Progression, what is the case when Contractors are made full time permanent (which will occur if further external recruitment is for contractors only)? Does this count as full time recruitment? I seem to remember reading this somewhere else, that once a contractor is made permanent, this is considered full time employment, thus Progression is actioned.
I don't know why they don't look at shifting Regional Crew into an expanded range of Progression options - ie. Choice of going straight into EITHER Short Haul or Long Haul. Also, shifting the regional crew into the jet arm (as mentioned previously), so that the kids aren't stuck on Eastern/Sunstate pay forever!
That way, with the large number of regional kids that want to get into Long Haul, this would free up short haul slots for the long haulers to shift into...what does everyone else think?
Just my 2 cents - they can't get rid of Progression altogether (not without a fight on their hands of course!)
I'm not aware of there being any changes to the Progression documents as they stand.
However, whilst I am not the guru with respect to Progression, what is the case when Contractors are made full time permanent (which will occur if further external recruitment is for contractors only)? Does this count as full time recruitment? I seem to remember reading this somewhere else, that once a contractor is made permanent, this is considered full time employment, thus Progression is actioned.
I don't know why they don't look at shifting Regional Crew into an expanded range of Progression options - ie. Choice of going straight into EITHER Short Haul or Long Haul. Also, shifting the regional crew into the jet arm (as mentioned previously), so that the kids aren't stuck on Eastern/Sunstate pay forever!
That way, with the large number of regional kids that want to get into Long Haul, this would free up short haul slots for the long haulers to shift into...what does everyone else think?
Just my 2 cents - they can't get rid of Progression altogether (not without a fight on their hands of course!)
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Hi Mr Seatback 2,
How were your holi's?
Conversion (be it from contract or casual) is recognised by QF as 'external full time recruitment' and impacts on CP. (But I dont think that QF will use their own casuals anymore - that will probably be done thru MAM. Therefore, no conversion required after 6 months!) QF also want to eventually increase the ratio of FT to Cas workers being used, so I cant see recruitment being all that hot for a while. (VERY frustrating - the past 2 years for Progression has been so inconsistent and really unsettling to those FA's keen to move on.)
Speaking with someone imparticular last week with regards to that exact suggestion of yours (ie. not just Domestic).....that may be where we are heading in the future. But it does depend on where the company say they are going with Domestic.
Whilst you guys are sorting out your CP bring up this 'suggestion'. The feedback is interesting
C Ya. xx
How were your holi's?
Conversion (be it from contract or casual) is recognised by QF as 'external full time recruitment' and impacts on CP. (But I dont think that QF will use their own casuals anymore - that will probably be done thru MAM. Therefore, no conversion required after 6 months!) QF also want to eventually increase the ratio of FT to Cas workers being used, so I cant see recruitment being all that hot for a while. (VERY frustrating - the past 2 years for Progression has been so inconsistent and really unsettling to those FA's keen to move on.)
Speaking with someone imparticular last week with regards to that exact suggestion of yours (ie. not just Domestic).....that may be where we are heading in the future. But it does depend on where the company say they are going with Domestic.
Whilst you guys are sorting out your CP bring up this 'suggestion'. The feedback is interesting
C Ya. xx
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Say Eastern/Sunstate crew progressed to Impulse at some point how would you guys feel about them taking their senority with them. Is senority a big issue at Impulse? As there would be quite a few with start dates well before you guys were taken over by QF and that is your start date isnt it?
For regional crew to progress to Long Haul it needs the approval of the long haul FAAA and from what I heard through friends at Eastern they would not even discuss the issue it was flat out rejected during the Eastern EBA where this idea was put on the table in terms of progression options.
Dixon has indicated the the new budget airline (if approved) will be lower in terms of in-flight service than Virgin. He has also indicated that the Impulse salaries are to high for what they had in mind for this airline therefore I cant see Impulse being the new airline but even if it was what sort of working life would that be probally no in-flight service at all if they want a lower standard than Virgin.
At present only Qantas executives are subject to Drug and Alcohol testing not general staff.
For regional crew to progress to Long Haul it needs the approval of the long haul FAAA and from what I heard through friends at Eastern they would not even discuss the issue it was flat out rejected during the Eastern EBA where this idea was put on the table in terms of progression options.
Dixon has indicated the the new budget airline (if approved) will be lower in terms of in-flight service than Virgin. He has also indicated that the Impulse salaries are to high for what they had in mind for this airline therefore I cant see Impulse being the new airline but even if it was what sort of working life would that be probally no in-flight service at all if they want a lower standard than Virgin.
At present only Qantas executives are subject to Drug and Alcohol testing not general staff.
Last edited by GalleyHag; 6th Sep 2003 at 15:28.
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!!
Hi Kids
The hols were great!
Seniority would be a big issue for the Impulse kids - except that as far as Impulse is concerned, we don't have 'seniority'! They prefer to call it "date of joining" - like it means the same thing??!?
Who knows what goes on at the bargaining tables during EBA's - particularly where Long Haul is concerned?? Although I do believe that if us regional kids are to go anywhere, they do need to open up the progression avenues within the CP documents - otherwise risk their 'breeding ground of happy, smiley cabin crew' turning sour and leaving...look at the exodus at Impulse before ACC was taken over by QF! And truth be told, CP is the only thing really keeping the highly skilled individuals at Eastern and Sunnies there! Am I wrong??
I don't recall ever seeing Dixon say that Impulse salaries are too high - on the contrary, Impulse crew are paid LESS than Virgin Blue crew (due to the fact that VB's EBA was formed with International flights in mind)...and as far as the a/c are concerned, tech crew etc - we are on par if not LESS than Virgin as a flying operation (can't speak for catering or ground services...maybe that's where the excess cost comes from?)
I imagine the inflight service would be just like Virgins - everything to be paid for. Just like every other low cost airline in the world - with the exception of Jet Blue, who have inseat TV's for pax to watch cable at a cost per flight! Great idea if you ask me!
Interesting times ahead kids - will put my feelers out on this one...
The hols were great!
Seniority would be a big issue for the Impulse kids - except that as far as Impulse is concerned, we don't have 'seniority'! They prefer to call it "date of joining" - like it means the same thing??!?
Who knows what goes on at the bargaining tables during EBA's - particularly where Long Haul is concerned?? Although I do believe that if us regional kids are to go anywhere, they do need to open up the progression avenues within the CP documents - otherwise risk their 'breeding ground of happy, smiley cabin crew' turning sour and leaving...look at the exodus at Impulse before ACC was taken over by QF! And truth be told, CP is the only thing really keeping the highly skilled individuals at Eastern and Sunnies there! Am I wrong??
I don't recall ever seeing Dixon say that Impulse salaries are too high - on the contrary, Impulse crew are paid LESS than Virgin Blue crew (due to the fact that VB's EBA was formed with International flights in mind)...and as far as the a/c are concerned, tech crew etc - we are on par if not LESS than Virgin as a flying operation (can't speak for catering or ground services...maybe that's where the excess cost comes from?)
I imagine the inflight service would be just like Virgins - everything to be paid for. Just like every other low cost airline in the world - with the exception of Jet Blue, who have inseat TV's for pax to watch cable at a cost per flight! Great idea if you ask me!
Interesting times ahead kids - will put my feelers out on this one...
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Hello...I read this thread with interest. I am one of those "old ducks from Jurassic park." Im 27 and not impressed by those generalised comments. I would prefer any day to fly with a senior crew over a junior one with attitudes reminiscent to that of whoever posted that nonsence.
Farewell
Farewell
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GalleyHag is spot on...... Qantas cannot take Progression from Regional to Long Haul to any bargaining table without the Long Haul FAAA agreeing to it. Any changes to the LongHaul EBA have to be approved by the FAAA and the members.
I cannot seeing it being approved though, as there would be no benefit to LongHaul members. In fact, it would be seen as a disadvantage to the more junior members, if regionals brought their seniority with them. And I really cant see QF management pushing for it during an EBA negotiation - there isnt any direct benefit for the company either.
Sounds harsh, but thats the reality. Nothing like that will be approved unless the FAAA can see a benefit for its membership.
It sounds like the company got what they want with you guys - an agreement on EBAs without having to give much in return
I cannot seeing it being approved though, as there would be no benefit to LongHaul members. In fact, it would be seen as a disadvantage to the more junior members, if regionals brought their seniority with them. And I really cant see QF management pushing for it during an EBA negotiation - there isnt any direct benefit for the company either.
Sounds harsh, but thats the reality. Nothing like that will be approved unless the FAAA can see a benefit for its membership.
It sounds like the company got what they want with you guys - an agreement on EBAs without having to give much in return
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Tip of the week
Long haul to stay long haul
Short haul to change to mid haul as of early 2004
New budget airline Q express to fly Broome, some Adelaide, Cairns, Coolies, Darwin, Townsville.
No progression for a while but mainline know we need a balance of fulltime to casual/part time crew. It will work out in the long run. Impulse seniority to count from takeover from Qantas or mainline FAAA will vote it down.
Short haul to change to mid haul as of early 2004
New budget airline Q express to fly Broome, some Adelaide, Cairns, Coolies, Darwin, Townsville.
No progression for a while but mainline know we need a balance of fulltime to casual/part time crew. It will work out in the long run. Impulse seniority to count from takeover from Qantas or mainline FAAA will vote it down.
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Bodum...
Your reply was very diplomatic. I don't know that most would've been so delicate in their response. I would like to convey my own opinion and just wish to say now that this is not a general comment nor a dig at other divisions. Just my own views and feelings.
To jump to QFskywalker's defence he was clearly generalising a group of people much your senior. You surely do not think he meant you. I am not justifying what was said I just think you know who he was referring to.
I would be quite high on the Impulse progression list should I choose to put my name on it. I have choosen not to progress (if an when it ever happens) as I do not think I would enjoy working with some of your colleagues. Nothing to do with age or level of competence. It is all to do with attitude. I am yet to witness any Link flight attendant with the same degree of bad attitude as a TINY minority of your colleagues. I pax on short haul flights about once a week and on a 717 maybe once a month. Let me tell you there is definately I need for some of your colleagues to get a boot up the bottom. In the last fortnight I paxed on two sectors where a couple of the FAs obviously took delight in upsetting people. Or atleast it seemed that way. I was embarassed to be in uniform. I just don't think that I could working alongside such person whilst still being relatively young (23 with three years flying). Maybe in the future? I don't know.
I have paxed on a few Impulse (and one or two Dash) flights where the crew were indifferent and just did their jobs. Hey it happens. Though never have I seen such a level of plain nastiness as I have seen twice in the last fortnight.
Please note I am NOT referring to a majority or generalising at all, by age or otherwise. In the past month (and once last November) I have made it a point to thank two CSMs (and their crew) for service that was truly out of this world. The best I have ever witnessed both working and on my travels in the past.
I just wish to say that I have formed my own opinion about some attitudes that exist right now that have prompted me not to consider myself for progression at this stage. I suspect that is what QFskywalker was trying to say.
I do hope that my feelings have not offended you Bodum, as they are not intended to. My views were formed on actual experiences I myself have had. I am not generalising and grouping anyone in this basket that need not be there.
Your reply was very diplomatic. I don't know that most would've been so delicate in their response. I would like to convey my own opinion and just wish to say now that this is not a general comment nor a dig at other divisions. Just my own views and feelings.
To jump to QFskywalker's defence he was clearly generalising a group of people much your senior. You surely do not think he meant you. I am not justifying what was said I just think you know who he was referring to.
I would be quite high on the Impulse progression list should I choose to put my name on it. I have choosen not to progress (if an when it ever happens) as I do not think I would enjoy working with some of your colleagues. Nothing to do with age or level of competence. It is all to do with attitude. I am yet to witness any Link flight attendant with the same degree of bad attitude as a TINY minority of your colleagues. I pax on short haul flights about once a week and on a 717 maybe once a month. Let me tell you there is definately I need for some of your colleagues to get a boot up the bottom. In the last fortnight I paxed on two sectors where a couple of the FAs obviously took delight in upsetting people. Or atleast it seemed that way. I was embarassed to be in uniform. I just don't think that I could working alongside such person whilst still being relatively young (23 with three years flying). Maybe in the future? I don't know.
I have paxed on a few Impulse (and one or two Dash) flights where the crew were indifferent and just did their jobs. Hey it happens. Though never have I seen such a level of plain nastiness as I have seen twice in the last fortnight.
Please note I am NOT referring to a majority or generalising at all, by age or otherwise. In the past month (and once last November) I have made it a point to thank two CSMs (and their crew) for service that was truly out of this world. The best I have ever witnessed both working and on my travels in the past.
I just wish to say that I have formed my own opinion about some attitudes that exist right now that have prompted me not to consider myself for progression at this stage. I suspect that is what QFskywalker was trying to say.
I do hope that my feelings have not offended you Bodum, as they are not intended to. My views were formed on actual experiences I myself have had. I am not generalising and grouping anyone in this basket that need not be there.
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The only thing that got the Eastern Eba voted up was the increase in CP numbers, and the fact that 18 would go across in the next progression. If Eastern management, QF industrial relations and the FAAA were aware of Mr Dixon's plans for a casualised/contracted FA workforce prior to the EBA being signed, you could pretty much say we were screwed over big time.
As has been mentioned in previous posts just when are we going to see those 18 crew go? I for one won't be holding my breath!
All I can say is god help Eastern and QF when it comes time to negotiate the next EBA and no FA has still progressed to shorthaul. There will be no CP carrot left to dangle - the carrot has gone rancid and mouldy and dropped off it's string!
As has been mentioned in previous posts just when are we going to see those 18 crew go? I for one won't be holding my breath!
All I can say is god help Eastern and QF when it comes time to negotiate the next EBA and no FA has still progressed to shorthaul. There will be no CP carrot left to dangle - the carrot has gone rancid and mouldy and dropped off it's string!
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Upper Deck Right
Actually, if you think about it, there is a great deal of benefit to Long Haul members if the Progression documents were opened up to allow more movement.
Specifically:
a) Current agreements means that regional can only go to short haul, and from there, to long haul.
b) Long Haul crew can only go to short haul during the exchange of divisional transfers from Short Haul to Long Haul.
If the CP arrangement was opened up, and Regional crew went straight to Long Haul (as is the case, because most of them want to take that road in Impulse), it would mean LESS Regional crew going to Short Haul - thus leaving more slots for Long Haul to transfer INTO Short Haul. Honour the increased numbers as they stand now, give Regional Crew the option of either Short Haul or Long Haul (one or the other) and progress from there...
I can think of many Long Haulers who would appreciate the fast-tracking of deployment into Short Haul *if you consider a 7 year waitlist fast-tracking!*
In finer detail:
a) Get Regional Crew to select which division they would like to transfer to (one only)
b) Changes permitted every 6 months from date of application
c) Determine the number into Short Haul and Long Haul. Work out the minimum numbers from each division (eg. 18 for Eastern, etc).
d) Determine the number of slots that would have been allotted to CP and MINUS those that have selected to go into Short Haul = Number of remaining slots OVER AND ABOVE the 50 divisional transfers per year from Long Haul to Short Haul.
Of course, some measure/formula would need to be applied to ensure that Short Haul crew wanting to transfer to Long Haul aren't disadvantaged (ie. that is, having regional crew jump in front of them). Maybe something along the lines of in circumstances where Long Haul achieve transfers greater than 50 due to regional crew entry, this same excess applies from Short Haul to Long Haul.
That way:
a) Regional quotas from CP document are met
b) More crew get the chance to progress between divisions at a faster rate, as crew enter their desired area quicker
c) Crew are happier!
d) QF then gets experienced crew to enter Long Haul - why this should be the sole domain of Short Haul only is beyond me, especially when you consider that a large number of CP crew are CSM's now!
Sure my plan probably has holes in it - but what do you guys think?
Actually, if you think about it, there is a great deal of benefit to Long Haul members if the Progression documents were opened up to allow more movement.
Specifically:
a) Current agreements means that regional can only go to short haul, and from there, to long haul.
b) Long Haul crew can only go to short haul during the exchange of divisional transfers from Short Haul to Long Haul.
If the CP arrangement was opened up, and Regional crew went straight to Long Haul (as is the case, because most of them want to take that road in Impulse), it would mean LESS Regional crew going to Short Haul - thus leaving more slots for Long Haul to transfer INTO Short Haul. Honour the increased numbers as they stand now, give Regional Crew the option of either Short Haul or Long Haul (one or the other) and progress from there...
I can think of many Long Haulers who would appreciate the fast-tracking of deployment into Short Haul *if you consider a 7 year waitlist fast-tracking!*
In finer detail:
a) Get Regional Crew to select which division they would like to transfer to (one only)
b) Changes permitted every 6 months from date of application
c) Determine the number into Short Haul and Long Haul. Work out the minimum numbers from each division (eg. 18 for Eastern, etc).
d) Determine the number of slots that would have been allotted to CP and MINUS those that have selected to go into Short Haul = Number of remaining slots OVER AND ABOVE the 50 divisional transfers per year from Long Haul to Short Haul.
Of course, some measure/formula would need to be applied to ensure that Short Haul crew wanting to transfer to Long Haul aren't disadvantaged (ie. that is, having regional crew jump in front of them). Maybe something along the lines of in circumstances where Long Haul achieve transfers greater than 50 due to regional crew entry, this same excess applies from Short Haul to Long Haul.
That way:
a) Regional quotas from CP document are met
b) More crew get the chance to progress between divisions at a faster rate, as crew enter their desired area quicker
c) Crew are happier!
d) QF then gets experienced crew to enter Long Haul - why this should be the sole domain of Short Haul only is beyond me, especially when you consider that a large number of CP crew are CSM's now!
Sure my plan probably has holes in it - but what do you guys think?
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Shortlisters???
Hi Everyone?
Just a question, with progression, i understand how a certain amount of say short haul have to be transferred to long haul each year per the EBA, etc but with progression from another airline, Sunstate/Eastern and whoever else may there, will these guys be used before say QF use anyone on their shortlist??? It may be a silly question, but just thought i'd ask?
thanks for your help
Just a question, with progression, i understand how a certain amount of say short haul have to be transferred to long haul each year per the EBA, etc but with progression from another airline, Sunstate/Eastern and whoever else may there, will these guys be used before say QF use anyone on their shortlist??? It may be a silly question, but just thought i'd ask?
thanks for your help
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Qantas doesn't want an express progression
We struggle to keep crew in Q link as it is. Main line will stay as is because the Domestic FAAA look after Q Link and long haul don't want a thing to do with regional affairs.
Main line crew look at it like this, progression is good and welcome it in it's current state.
But if you want to fly main line then apply main line.
If you don't get in then try again but many see it as a back door for people who didn't cut it first time around.
Next time they come back with better skills and work background and make main line standard.
(Before you go crazy there is a differance)
P.S Old girls and guys all started out as young sexy beautiful hostess many years ago like many who choose to judge.
After 15 years of flying you can judge them and after 25+ years flying have the same conversation with yourself and see if you want to retire because some young f/a who fly's for a subsidgiary wants your job.
In my first year in the job I made the same mistakes but soon had it slapped out of me and got to see how important it is to have senior, junior and middle seniority crew on a flight work together.
Main line crew look at it like this, progression is good and welcome it in it's current state.
But if you want to fly main line then apply main line.
If you don't get in then try again but many see it as a back door for people who didn't cut it first time around.
Next time they come back with better skills and work background and make main line standard.
(Before you go crazy there is a differance)
P.S Old girls and guys all started out as young sexy beautiful hostess many years ago like many who choose to judge.
After 15 years of flying you can judge them and after 25+ years flying have the same conversation with yourself and see if you want to retire because some young f/a who fly's for a subsidgiary wants your job.
In my first year in the job I made the same mistakes but soon had it slapped out of me and got to see how important it is to have senior, junior and middle seniority crew on a flight work together.
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Peanut Pusher,
You have opened your mouth on a very sensitive issue and as someone who claims to be part of the Qantas Recruitment team and someone in the "know" I'd be very interested to hear what you deem as the differences between regional crew and mainline crew ? I am going to be as friendly as I can to you in this post but you have upset me nonetheless. I have quoted your comments to real people in the know at qf hr and as I already knew you are incorrect. Qantaslink crew are hired on the EXACT same requirements as mainline so I fail to see what you are crapping on about if that is what you are referring to when talking about "differences". We all go through the same Qantas medical and have to meet the same requirements you do.The recruitment process is therefore indentical and we are not second rate flight attendants just because we work for a regional carrier.
so what is the difference ? Tell me ? I can think of one difference....regional crew where the uniform correctly !
I as a regional flight attendant work with many EX LH and SH crew and that of other airlines who choose regional over mainline,not because one is better but because of their individual lifestyles, these people would take great interest and have a big laugh at comments that suggest that the reason we fly for a regional is because we couldn't cut it first time around. I'd like to see some of the "few" disgruntled 50+ mainline f/a's have a go at a 7 sector day working on their own on a dash 8. Have you considered that some people from other cities in Australia choose to fly with regionals because they don't want to be away from home a lot ? have familes ? have sick parents ? don't wish to relocate to another city ? the list goes on. Surely as a recruiter with QF these issues would be something you deal with all the time.
Secondly, I nor anyone else have never said that we want your jobs. We are clearly looking after our own "future" interests by being active in our following of CP issues and so we should be. We are the future of this airline and I honestly do have high respect for senior crew members like yourself, however I must admit that I lack respect for some senior crew who as explained by diztyboy tend to go out of their way to upset people . I might also add that just the other day I had a subload L/H csm on my flight with 25+years service who shook my hand at the end the flight with amazement at how hard I worked on my own - and you say many think that we couldn't cut it for mainline ? I highly doubt it my friend. I'd be happy to pass on the name of the senior CSM to you and he can give you a detailed account of his experiences flying with someone who apparently as seen by many mainline crew " couldn't cut it ".
I'll end this post by saying that the reason I take high interest in CP is because I love Qantas and I love my job - surely that is something we all agree on peanut pusher? I don't wish any senior crew member out of job, but I do wish that the current CP agreements could be changed to better look after crew already working in the QF group. All we want to do is fly for Qantas and be happy and continue to make QF a stronger and more successful airline.
QF Skywalker
You have opened your mouth on a very sensitive issue and as someone who claims to be part of the Qantas Recruitment team and someone in the "know" I'd be very interested to hear what you deem as the differences between regional crew and mainline crew ? I am going to be as friendly as I can to you in this post but you have upset me nonetheless. I have quoted your comments to real people in the know at qf hr and as I already knew you are incorrect. Qantaslink crew are hired on the EXACT same requirements as mainline so I fail to see what you are crapping on about if that is what you are referring to when talking about "differences". We all go through the same Qantas medical and have to meet the same requirements you do.The recruitment process is therefore indentical and we are not second rate flight attendants just because we work for a regional carrier.
If you don't get in then try again but many see it as a back door for people who didn't cut it first time around.
Next time they come back with better skills and work background and make main line standard.
(Before you go crazy there is a differance)
I as a regional flight attendant work with many EX LH and SH crew and that of other airlines who choose regional over mainline,not because one is better but because of their individual lifestyles, these people would take great interest and have a big laugh at comments that suggest that the reason we fly for a regional is because we couldn't cut it first time around. I'd like to see some of the "few" disgruntled 50+ mainline f/a's have a go at a 7 sector day working on their own on a dash 8. Have you considered that some people from other cities in Australia choose to fly with regionals because they don't want to be away from home a lot ? have familes ? have sick parents ? don't wish to relocate to another city ? the list goes on. Surely as a recruiter with QF these issues would be something you deal with all the time.
Secondly, I nor anyone else have never said that we want your jobs. We are clearly looking after our own "future" interests by being active in our following of CP issues and so we should be. We are the future of this airline and I honestly do have high respect for senior crew members like yourself, however I must admit that I lack respect for some senior crew who as explained by diztyboy tend to go out of their way to upset people . I might also add that just the other day I had a subload L/H csm on my flight with 25+years service who shook my hand at the end the flight with amazement at how hard I worked on my own - and you say many think that we couldn't cut it for mainline ? I highly doubt it my friend. I'd be happy to pass on the name of the senior CSM to you and he can give you a detailed account of his experiences flying with someone who apparently as seen by many mainline crew " couldn't cut it ".
I'll end this post by saying that the reason I take high interest in CP is because I love Qantas and I love my job - surely that is something we all agree on peanut pusher? I don't wish any senior crew member out of job, but I do wish that the current CP agreements could be changed to better look after crew already working in the QF group. All we want to do is fly for Qantas and be happy and continue to make QF a stronger and more successful airline.
QF Skywalker
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Peanut Pusher - without realising it, your post has become rather inflammatory towards Link Chicks (although I don't for a moment believe that it was the intention)...
In response to your post:
"long haul don't want a thing to do with regional affairs"
That's right - Long Haul don't want to look after anyone else other than Long Haul. $10 bets you, however, that if Regional could provide them with more Short Haul slots they'd get involved (MY OATH they would!)
"many see it as a back door for people who didn't cut it first time around."
Couldn't this also be applied to the many crew that go from Long Haul to Short Haul and vice versa? Like QF Skywalker has said, Link Chicks go through just as much a selection process as mainline crew - I fail to see where the 'obvious differences' lie! Many Short Haul Crew that go to Long Haul eventually end up in Long Haul because they couldn't 'cut it' the last time they applied externally to Long Haul - that, or Short Haul is where they ended up, because they took ANYTHING they could get to be employed by Qantas.
As far as Long Haul crew go, a large majority are champing at the bit to get into Short Haul (many of whom have NEVER applied externally to Short Haul, in competition with other better qualified applicants).
In all cases as far as Mainline crew are concerned, they could ALL RESIGN and apply externally and get in that way too - but they don't. Why? Because they all refuse to lose their years of service, seniority, etc. AND THEY SEE IT AS AN ENTITLEMENT! WHY THEN ARE LINK CREW VIEWED AS BEING INTERLOPERS WANTING SOMETHING THEY DON'T REALLY DESERVE, WHEN MAINLINE CREW CONSIDER IT A GOD GIVEN RIGHT??
"Next time they come back with better skills and work background and make main line standard. "
I can appreciate your comment only to a CERTAIN degree. Whilst Link Crew do enter with years of flying behind them, etc. THAT IS ALL THEY DEVELOP. And I'm sure you agree, as with the thousands of FA's already in mainline who were employed off the street, you don't need flying experience to become 'mainline' - it's nice, but certainly not essential.
Mainline standard????? CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THAT IS? Exactly what is mainline standard Peanut Pusher? Passing EP's? Wearing the uniform correctly every day? Smiling? OOPS - Link Crew do that everyday (not so sure about mainline though...)
I agree with Skywalker - there is no difference. If anything, the only difference is that these crew WORK HARDER FOR FAR LESS MONEY because they LOVE THE JOB (How many Dash Chicks agree with me on this one?)
PP - If I had been flying for 25+ years (and through some magical mystery, QF hadn't made me redundant or on a contract in some way, shape or form) and some new, fresh and eager FA wanted my job, then so be it. That is the case now - many new, fresh eager FA's want older crew positions - but know they'll have to wait until their time comes before that happens. Just as Link Crew - they keep missing out on CP because hundreds of Long Haulers want to jump ship into Short Haul ahead of them.
I agree with you that it is important - though certainly not ESSENTIAL - for a range of experience to be on a flight. However, regardless of experience, all crew are trained to the same standard and many bring a wealth of experience from other backgrounds. At the end of the day, this should be all that matters.
OZCabin Crew,
The Divisional Transfers would be actioned first, before the Shortlist.
If they were to use the short list for contractors and casuals, they could still employ without doing Career Progression from the regionals. The Short Haul Crew and Long Haul crew would transfer between one another irrespective, depending on vacancies.
In response to your post:
"long haul don't want a thing to do with regional affairs"
That's right - Long Haul don't want to look after anyone else other than Long Haul. $10 bets you, however, that if Regional could provide them with more Short Haul slots they'd get involved (MY OATH they would!)
"many see it as a back door for people who didn't cut it first time around."
Couldn't this also be applied to the many crew that go from Long Haul to Short Haul and vice versa? Like QF Skywalker has said, Link Chicks go through just as much a selection process as mainline crew - I fail to see where the 'obvious differences' lie! Many Short Haul Crew that go to Long Haul eventually end up in Long Haul because they couldn't 'cut it' the last time they applied externally to Long Haul - that, or Short Haul is where they ended up, because they took ANYTHING they could get to be employed by Qantas.
As far as Long Haul crew go, a large majority are champing at the bit to get into Short Haul (many of whom have NEVER applied externally to Short Haul, in competition with other better qualified applicants).
In all cases as far as Mainline crew are concerned, they could ALL RESIGN and apply externally and get in that way too - but they don't. Why? Because they all refuse to lose their years of service, seniority, etc. AND THEY SEE IT AS AN ENTITLEMENT! WHY THEN ARE LINK CREW VIEWED AS BEING INTERLOPERS WANTING SOMETHING THEY DON'T REALLY DESERVE, WHEN MAINLINE CREW CONSIDER IT A GOD GIVEN RIGHT??
"Next time they come back with better skills and work background and make main line standard. "
I can appreciate your comment only to a CERTAIN degree. Whilst Link Crew do enter with years of flying behind them, etc. THAT IS ALL THEY DEVELOP. And I'm sure you agree, as with the thousands of FA's already in mainline who were employed off the street, you don't need flying experience to become 'mainline' - it's nice, but certainly not essential.
Mainline standard????? CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THAT IS? Exactly what is mainline standard Peanut Pusher? Passing EP's? Wearing the uniform correctly every day? Smiling? OOPS - Link Crew do that everyday (not so sure about mainline though...)
I agree with Skywalker - there is no difference. If anything, the only difference is that these crew WORK HARDER FOR FAR LESS MONEY because they LOVE THE JOB (How many Dash Chicks agree with me on this one?)
PP - If I had been flying for 25+ years (and through some magical mystery, QF hadn't made me redundant or on a contract in some way, shape or form) and some new, fresh and eager FA wanted my job, then so be it. That is the case now - many new, fresh eager FA's want older crew positions - but know they'll have to wait until their time comes before that happens. Just as Link Crew - they keep missing out on CP because hundreds of Long Haulers want to jump ship into Short Haul ahead of them.
I agree with you that it is important - though certainly not ESSENTIAL - for a range of experience to be on a flight. However, regardless of experience, all crew are trained to the same standard and many bring a wealth of experience from other backgrounds. At the end of the day, this should be all that matters.
OZCabin Crew,
The Divisional Transfers would be actioned first, before the Shortlist.
If they were to use the short list for contractors and casuals, they could still employ without doing Career Progression from the regionals. The Short Haul Crew and Long Haul crew would transfer between one another irrespective, depending on vacancies.