Lear Jet Down
I don't know where you got those times from. According to FlightAware data they departed KSEE at 1354PST and were making their approach back around 1910PST.
Exactly. Maninbah is using a mixture of the two, UTC for the departure time and PST for the arrival time. So, in fact, their duty time would have been under 7 hours.
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My worst mistakes have been when I’ve been flying with someone I got on really well with. Over familiarity can lead to complacency, and not wanting to pick up the other’s mistakes for fear of spoiling the nice atmosphere. And probably less effective briefings, and over confidence in the other pilot’s ability leading to poor monitoring.
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You get along swimmingly, you’ve seen a handful of each other’s mistakes and you get a little more forgiving.
Anyway, we might learn more from the CVR I hope. OTOH, what I have seen so far suggests that this approach was doomed from the moment they went VFR.
As Forrest Gump said: stupid is as stupid does...
Last edited by His dudeness; 1st Jan 2022 at 18:37.
This accident is not limited to what happened that night.
Accidents can be years in the making.
Certain personalities that may be very different or very similar can work together very well or not at all.
Even working together very well they might amplify each other’s highs and lows or they may dampen them out.
Friendly banter or friendly competition can turn sour. Some people feel the need to make everything a competition or comparison of skill and the best way to deal with that is to “let them win”.
Case in my personal experience, I was teamed up with a pilot senior to me for a simulator event. We were required to demonstrate a landing with a 30kt crosswind component.
Upon completion of the “checking” part we had a little time left and the sim instructor asked if we wanted to do anything with that time so the other guy asked for a landing with 40kts.
He did one and and after mine was equally successful he asked for one at 50 kts.
After he wrestled that one to the ground I declined. Under different circumstances I would have tried even though I never would in real life but I wasn’t going to feed into his desire.
I let “him win”.
[QUOTE=B2N2;.
Especially a Lear is not known to be a ‘starter jet’ but many evac companies use them for the larger door. Or I think that’s the reason. [/QUOTE]
Indeed, the door is much wider and the configuration of the door as a clamshell facilitates loading far more easily as you have a ramp to attach to the medical base in the aircraft using the step as a base to stabilise the stretcher ramp on.
The other reason for Lear use is that it's cost-effective in terms of time and distance compared to say a King Air. In the UK, a Lear 35A will fly direct to the Canary Islands in about 4 hours, whereas a King Air will take at least double including a fuel stop and require an overnight stay and a far longer journey for the patient. Also, a Lear will climb and cruise a lot higher than a turboprop which will cut down the problems to the patients of mid level turbulence and the incidence of nausea and vomiting in particular when you have them strapped into a stretcher. Remember, the stretcher actually has little stretcher to cabin ceiling leeway for sitting a patient up.
I do wonder if there was an element of 'get homeitis' when in effect the weather was poor.? I worked for 11 years in the UK for Lear based A A companies both pilots were fully qualified PIC and the chief pilot at one always insisted that his pilots actually maintained the skills by hand flying the aircraft when appropriate. All legs on a job were flown with an alternating pilot handling, pilot monitoring.
Apart from the loss of the two pilots being lost, there were two nurses on board who also died. RiP colleagues, blue skies.
Especially a Lear is not known to be a ‘starter jet’ but many evac companies use them for the larger door. Or I think that’s the reason. [/QUOTE]
Indeed, the door is much wider and the configuration of the door as a clamshell facilitates loading far more easily as you have a ramp to attach to the medical base in the aircraft using the step as a base to stabilise the stretcher ramp on.
The other reason for Lear use is that it's cost-effective in terms of time and distance compared to say a King Air. In the UK, a Lear 35A will fly direct to the Canary Islands in about 4 hours, whereas a King Air will take at least double including a fuel stop and require an overnight stay and a far longer journey for the patient. Also, a Lear will climb and cruise a lot higher than a turboprop which will cut down the problems to the patients of mid level turbulence and the incidence of nausea and vomiting in particular when you have them strapped into a stretcher. Remember, the stretcher actually has little stretcher to cabin ceiling leeway for sitting a patient up.
I do wonder if there was an element of 'get homeitis' when in effect the weather was poor.? I worked for 11 years in the UK for Lear based A A companies both pilots were fully qualified PIC and the chief pilot at one always insisted that his pilots actually maintained the skills by hand flying the aircraft when appropriate. All legs on a job were flown with an alternating pilot handling, pilot monitoring.
Apart from the loss of the two pilots being lost, there were two nurses on board who also died. RiP colleagues, blue skies.
Last edited by air pig; 1st Jan 2022 at 17:16.
