Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc. The place for discussion of issues related to corporate, Ag and GA aviation. If you're a professional pilot and don't fly for the airlines then try here.

Falcon 7x Incident

Old 28th Dec 2017, 15:02
  #1 (permalink)  

Moon Walker
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: the Moon
Posts: 502
Falcon 7x Incident

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=203481
neil armstrong is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2017, 15:28
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,309
vhttp://www.independent.com.mt/artic...QS_M84.twitter

This article reckons

Strong winds have blown a small aircraft out of the airport enclosure, with the aircraft smashing through a perimeter fence and then into a building on the opposite side of the road
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 28th Dec 2017, 15:47
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 54
Posts: 2,370
Which brings new momentum to the question I often asked myself: who is to take the blame for this ? On a lot of aprons your airplane gets chocked and they demand the park brake off. Are "they" (handlers and/or airports) taking responsibility IF something like this happens ?

Was parked in UATE (Aktau) and very strong winds turned a Fokker-100 parked next to us by maybe 60-65 towards our airplane, a collisions would have occurred if the wind would have been a tad stronger....
His dudeness is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2017, 15:54
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: europe
Posts: 5
From the above link:

(who is domiciled in Belize for tax reasons)

What's this to do with reporting an incident?
arketip is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2017, 15:57
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: europe
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by His dudeness View Post
Which brings new momentum to the question I often asked myself: who is to take the blame for this ? On a lot of aprons your airplane gets chocked and they demand the park brake off. Are "they" (handlers and/or airports) taking responsibility IF something like this happens ?
I do not know about your aircraft, but on mine, after about half an hour from shut down, the parking brake does not hold anymore.
arketip is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2017, 21:48
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 54
Posts: 2,370
its holds definitely longer, but thats irrelevant if you`re asked to keep it off anyways....
His dudeness is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2017, 21:58
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SF Bay area, CA USA
Posts: 255
"Strong winds have blown a small aircraft out of the airport enclosure, with the aircraft smashing through a perimeter fence and then into a building on the opposite side of the road."

(Emphasis mine)

A Falcon 7X is hardly a small aircraft!
jack11111 is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2017, 22:58
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Rocky Road
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by arketip View Post
From the above link:

(who is domiciled in Belize for tax reasons)

What's this to do with reporting an incident?
Absolutely nothing...

In much the same way Ashcroft was economical with the truth when he was asked if he owned the aircraft...
Sandstone Cowboy is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2017, 23:11
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 426
Da7X video

video clip
robbreid is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2017, 23:15
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 426
No idea how to post link - but here is a short clip of the incident - as well as more photos including the nose inside the building ...
robbreid is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2017, 06:28
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: CEE
Posts: 62
@ His Dudeness,


In terms of responsabilities nothing to the pilots, should they had followed
"ground handlings" FCOM procedures...ex: chocks, mooring, topping fuel reservoirs, park brake set on...and some photos as evidences of caution.

Last edited by Fletner007; 29th Dec 2017 at 06:58.
Fletner007 is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2017, 06:38
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Only upon request
Posts: 858
not lucky with Falcons?

Remember, Lord A. suffered a belly landing with 900EX VP-BMS (he described the accident in his book "Dirty politics, Dirty times".

https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/falc...-february-2004

https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-118323.html

Last edited by FLEXJET; 29th Dec 2017 at 08:04. Reason: new link
FLEXJET is online now  
Old 29th Dec 2017, 08:46
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: another place
Posts: 732
In CPH a few months ago and gusting 54kts and I refused to take off the park brake when leaving the aircraft. Be the captain!
As for the park brake not working a short time after shutdown, what does your manual say? Mine should be good for 24hours. If it’s not performing to spec, tech it.
Deep and fast is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2017, 08:49
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: europe
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by His dudeness View Post
its holds definitely longer, but thats irrelevant if you`re asked to keep it off anyways....
Well, yes, they ask, but you do not have to do it if you do not want to.

Only issue is that you might have to drive to the airport to release the brakes if they need to move it.
arketip is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2017, 13:48
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: England
Posts: 653
Without prejudice to the current incident there are a few general knowledge things which I hope could help others.

As was said above, be the Captain but you are also the manager down route. I have had several disagreements with airport authorities about leaving the parking brake on but I have also parked the aircraft at an angle across the stand so that it is pointing into the prevailing wind. I have also refused to park close to other aircraft when there is plenty of apron space available.

Also bear in mind That pilots should be aware of the contents of the ground handling section of the maintenance manual. There will be limitations and advice in there which you will not find in aircrew documents.

If your parking brake is not holding the pressure as specified then encourage your management/maintenance to get it fixed. It is often just a matter of tightening some unions or filling points but is always cheaper than other repairs.

Filling up with fuel is a good idea if you can.
Park into wind if you can.
Use the parking break if you can.
Tie down if you can.

Many business jets have points next to the jacking points where you can screw in a tie down hook. It is good practice to keep these tie down hooks on the aircraft with the other aircraft loose equipment such as the TR pins, fuses, jacking cups etc..

I once was asked buy an owner why I was doing the above when no one else was. The next day when he came to board he was able to note some other aircraft which had moved and were touching each other!!!

Even if we consider that it is not our responsibility or fault it is still us who has to deal with the aftermath and it is us who suffer when the bosses aircraft is not available and possibly loose out if he gets fed up with it.

Do not be afraid to manage the FBO's and be strong. Be polite but be firm when needed.
Miles Magister is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2017, 16:47
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: europe
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by Miles Magister View Post
If your parking brake is not holding the pressure as specified then encourage your management/maintenance to get it fixed. It is often just a matter of tightening some unions or filling points but is always cheaper than other repairs.
Well, in the case of "my" aircraft, is fleet wide issue. On all aircraft of this type the parking brake is "safe" for half an hour or a bit more, not for hours for sure.
Unless the manufacturer is willing to modify all aircraft tightening a few unions will not achieve much.
I will keep using chock, even for short parking.

Originally Posted by Miles Magister View Post
Filling up with fuel is a good idea if you can.
Park into wind if you can.
Use the parking break if you can.
Tie down if you can.
You really tie down your aircraft everytime you overnight?
arketip is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2017, 19:22
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 522
It was interesting to read the first news reports about this yesterday which claimed the aircraft "veered off the runway and hit a building."
RAFAT is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2017, 23:01
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: England
Posts: 653
No, but when there are high winds I did.
Miles Magister is offline  
Old 30th Dec 2017, 09:45
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Paris
Age: 70
Posts: 275
Switch off headlights after parking!



Fotostrecke: Die Bilder der Woche - Bild 25 - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Panorama

Malta ...
Plane got moved by wind.
edmundronald is offline  
Old 30th Dec 2017, 11:09
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,423
Already covered!
Hotel Tango is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.