TAG AVIATION ASIA ?
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I don't believe that any management company in Hong Kong has a "Roster".
You may hear that they have 3 pilots on an aircraft, but they don't offer tickets home for each "Rotation". When heavy crewing comes up, often you are back on the road...
Anyone flying there have any concrete info that is different?
FR
You may hear that they have 3 pilots on an aircraft, but they don't offer tickets home for each "Rotation". When heavy crewing comes up, often you are back on the road...
Anyone flying there have any concrete info that is different?
FR
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Don't want to sound "fussy"but given the money/conditions thoses guys offer...ie what I got last:
DeerJet (oh Dear..):Falcon 7X Cpt,salary 12000US$, a generous 60US$ perdiem ! (when overeseas of course) 30$ when "home" , 1000US$/ months for accomodation( price you have to pay if you want a place with no common toilet/shower and with AC) and at least 5 days off per month ( already too much),and a gracious 125$ overtime paid after the 550th block hour
So unless you are a desperado, why on earth would you go away from your familly,kids, friends to leave in FREAKING China ?With no chance to commute and no financial interests of living there ( you can work in civilised countries roughly with the same income and enjoy the full features of google search).
I believe either the "Crooks " from the management companies make their pockets burst with CNY or the Chinese are really worse than the Scotts
By the way the lucky GV,G450 drivers make 500$ more (because of the fly by wire)))).
I am happy to send the detailed sheet (****?) to anyone wich want to read it...
Fly high.
DeerJet (oh Dear..):Falcon 7X Cpt,salary 12000US$, a generous 60US$ perdiem ! (when overeseas of course) 30$ when "home" , 1000US$/ months for accomodation( price you have to pay if you want a place with no common toilet/shower and with AC) and at least 5 days off per month ( already too much),and a gracious 125$ overtime paid after the 550th block hour
So unless you are a desperado, why on earth would you go away from your familly,kids, friends to leave in FREAKING China ?With no chance to commute and no financial interests of living there ( you can work in civilised countries roughly with the same income and enjoy the full features of google search).
I believe either the "Crooks " from the management companies make their pockets burst with CNY or the Chinese are really worse than the Scotts
By the way the lucky GV,G450 drivers make 500$ more (because of the fly by wire)))).
I am happy to send the detailed sheet (****?) to anyone wich want to read it...
Fly high.
Last edited by jr of dallas; 24th Oct 2012 at 14:37.
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Let me take a moment to reiterate my position:
Some jobs have better terms and conditions than others
Some pilots are better employees than others
Take the best job you are offered
If you weren't offered, someone else was better
Rather than complaining on PPRuNe, just try to look within yourself, and do better next time.
Alternately, you can complain here for the rest of your miserable existence
FR
Some jobs have better terms and conditions than others
Some pilots are better employees than others
Take the best job you are offered
If you weren't offered, someone else was better
Rather than complaining on PPRuNe, just try to look within yourself, and do better next time.
Alternately, you can complain here for the rest of your miserable existence
FR
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There is nothing right in a smart ass answer. This industry is populated with people such as frank r who have a big mouth because they are anonymous. The forum gives them the false impression that their d**k is bigger than their brain. Imagine what a nice guy he must be to socialise with or share a cockpit with for 11 hrs?
Real people have empathy for others.
Asian biz jet companies are the worst to work for because they are run by very old drunk has-beens
, wannabes or people who have nowhere to go and feel the need to constantly put people down to boost their own self esteem.
There are one or two companies that are trying to make the change and the very best of luck to them but TAG Asia is not one of them. The people who know what is needed are usually ex-TAG employees or customers who see the light. TAG Asia is not TAG Europe, it is stepping stone to better things for the wise or a pasture for the weak willed.
There is no incentive to improve as the market is flooded with aircraft. TAG has aircraft because the aircraft are there, not because they know what they are doing.
When the competition starts which it will when the next stage of the global meltdown, hyper inflation and the Chinese luxury tax hits this year they will topple very quickly.
If you are willing to be treated like crap and beg for more that is your decision, if you are willing to sing the praises of your wonderful company that personally gives you a bedtime hug and puffs up your pillow every night because you are terrified of being noticed then be that sheep at your leisure.
However, do not be condescending to fellow pilots when you have no idea of what really goes on over here.
As a much valued friend passed on to me recently;
Do not follow anyone that is going nowhere.......Do not spend your time with insignificant people, invest it with worthwhile ones.
Real people have empathy for others.
Asian biz jet companies are the worst to work for because they are run by very old drunk has-beens
, wannabes or people who have nowhere to go and feel the need to constantly put people down to boost their own self esteem.There are one or two companies that are trying to make the change and the very best of luck to them but TAG Asia is not one of them. The people who know what is needed are usually ex-TAG employees or customers who see the light. TAG Asia is not TAG Europe, it is stepping stone to better things for the wise or a pasture for the weak willed.
There is no incentive to improve as the market is flooded with aircraft. TAG has aircraft because the aircraft are there, not because they know what they are doing.
When the competition starts which it will when the next stage of the global meltdown, hyper inflation and the Chinese luxury tax hits this year they will topple very quickly.
If you are willing to be treated like crap and beg for more that is your decision, if you are willing to sing the praises of your wonderful company that personally gives you a bedtime hug and puffs up your pillow every night because you are terrified of being noticed then be that sheep at your leisure.
However, do not be condescending to fellow pilots when you have no idea of what really goes on over here.
As a much valued friend passed on to me recently;
Do not follow anyone that is going nowhere.......Do not spend your time with insignificant people, invest it with worthwhile ones.
Last edited by pilotbear; 27th Oct 2012 at 05:48.
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Sorry if I offended you Gavno, I didn't intend to.
I wrote what I did because I have listened to rant after rant from fellow pilots expecting top shelf pay and conditions from each and every job they sign up for. I remember back in my airline days, flying for an "entry level" big jet airline, earning $45k a year, where many pilots would spend their entire trip complaining that we didn't get treated like Delta Captains.
The more you complain about your roster, days off, and pay, the more you ruin your chances for a better job in the future. You don't get hired based on pilot skills and time, since everyone taken for an interview has met those minimums. You will get hired and promoted (or not) based on how frequently you slander people, (as pilotbear just did) or complain, whine, or "lose control" and scream at a CSR or CA.
So my points were not directed at anyone specific, and I didn't want to piss off anyone, I just read the comments after the first ten or so that were rather pointedly negitive about TAG, and about pay and conditions. I think these guys are off-base, and need something to think about.
As for pilotbear's comments that
"Asian biz jet companies are the worst to work for because they are run by very old drunk has-beens , wannabes or people who have nowhere to go and feel the need to constantly put people down to boost their own self esteem"
I'd like to say “wow! How do you really feel?” and that pilotbear needs to get out more. HK companies are half run by expats, and half by locals. They are BY FAR the better choice when compared to most any place outside of the US and Europe, and they are as good or better than half of those inside the US or Europe. (If you want to experience crappy management and difficult conditions, try working for a Learjet charter company in Van Nuys or Houston).
As for pilotbear's comment
"There are one or two companies that are trying to make the change and the very best of luck to them"
He couldn't be more wrong. Everything is fine in Hong Kong. No one is trying to change anything, it's fine how it is. There are always rumors of the month on/month off contracts to come, but so far, ZIP. If upper management wanted a change, it would happen yesterday! Challenger 300 Captains here earn over US $19,000 a month, is that not enough?
Reread pilotbear's first post on this, you'll see he is really wound up at TAG Asia for some reason. If he needs to vent, so be it.
In the end, Hong Kong is a great place to live and work. Regardless of where you are, in order to get to the next rung on the ladder, accept what you've been given, smile, and don't bitch too much.
OK?
FR
I wrote what I did because I have listened to rant after rant from fellow pilots expecting top shelf pay and conditions from each and every job they sign up for. I remember back in my airline days, flying for an "entry level" big jet airline, earning $45k a year, where many pilots would spend their entire trip complaining that we didn't get treated like Delta Captains.
The more you complain about your roster, days off, and pay, the more you ruin your chances for a better job in the future. You don't get hired based on pilot skills and time, since everyone taken for an interview has met those minimums. You will get hired and promoted (or not) based on how frequently you slander people, (as pilotbear just did) or complain, whine, or "lose control" and scream at a CSR or CA.
So my points were not directed at anyone specific, and I didn't want to piss off anyone, I just read the comments after the first ten or so that were rather pointedly negitive about TAG, and about pay and conditions. I think these guys are off-base, and need something to think about.
As for pilotbear's comments that
"Asian biz jet companies are the worst to work for because they are run by very old drunk has-beens , wannabes or people who have nowhere to go and feel the need to constantly put people down to boost their own self esteem"
I'd like to say “wow! How do you really feel?” and that pilotbear needs to get out more. HK companies are half run by expats, and half by locals. They are BY FAR the better choice when compared to most any place outside of the US and Europe, and they are as good or better than half of those inside the US or Europe. (If you want to experience crappy management and difficult conditions, try working for a Learjet charter company in Van Nuys or Houston).
As for pilotbear's comment
"There are one or two companies that are trying to make the change and the very best of luck to them"
He couldn't be more wrong. Everything is fine in Hong Kong. No one is trying to change anything, it's fine how it is. There are always rumors of the month on/month off contracts to come, but so far, ZIP. If upper management wanted a change, it would happen yesterday! Challenger 300 Captains here earn over US $19,000 a month, is that not enough?
Reread pilotbear's first post on this, you'll see he is really wound up at TAG Asia for some reason. If he needs to vent, so be it.
In the end, Hong Kong is a great place to live and work. Regardless of where you are, in order to get to the next rung on the ladder, accept what you've been given, smile, and don't bitch too much.
OK?
FR
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Frank, having a better job luckily better paid and/or working in a good company never should you make feel superior to the one wich are looking for clearer skies( the latter mentioned quality being a byproduct of education I guess..).
But when you write:
I do think you need to put more thinking in your keyboard, are you an instructor ?
As for Pilotbear, Sir, cannot agree more with you.
But when you write:
Alternately, you can complain here for the rest of your miserable existence
As for Pilotbear, Sir, cannot agree more with you.
Last edited by Gavno; 28th Oct 2012 at 09:45.
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Do not follow anyone that is going nowhere.......Do not spend your time with insignificant people, invest it with worthwhile ones.
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Firstly, I am not wound up at anyone. My first post was based on legal documents I have just been sent and have checked authenticity of. I do not work at or will ever work at TAG.
I tell it as it is from extensive research in the aviation and the business community and have been doing so since 1999 here. There are a few people in this region that have had the run of the place for some time and it spoiled it for the genuine ones who have talent and do enjoy the region.
Secondly, Gavno
Thirdly, Companies 'look after' contractors don't they because they are desperate for crew.
It is all very well to support your mates in management but do it from a point of authority, experience and respect for fellow pilots.
As for getting hired and promoted, you get hired because they are desperate for pilots, you get promoted because they are desperate for pilots.
Yes, you can sit on your hands, have no integrity, tell everyone how wonderful it is and then what are you really?
Living in HK is very nice, living in mainland China is not.
YOU ARE NOT LEGAL IN CHINA ON A VISITOR VISA despite what the company tells you. You can be arrested and deported. You cannot have a permanent residence in China on a CREW VISA. It is illegal.
Everything is not fine in Hong Kong and there are serious management changes underway in more than one company because a few guys are realizing that there is something wrong. I am not willing to put names here because that breaks the rules.
Time to brief the approach so I close with this. There is a light hearted post on JETBLAST that might be of interest 'Company Hiring.......too funny" for all who work in Asia.
"The 1000 mile journey starts with the first step" Keep walking guys
I tell it as it is from extensive research in the aviation and the business community and have been doing so since 1999 here. There are a few people in this region that have had the run of the place for some time and it spoiled it for the genuine ones who have talent and do enjoy the region.
Secondly, Gavno
Thirdly, Companies 'look after' contractors don't they because they are desperate for crew.
It is all very well to support your mates in management but do it from a point of authority, experience and respect for fellow pilots.
As for getting hired and promoted, you get hired because they are desperate for pilots, you get promoted because they are desperate for pilots.
Yes, you can sit on your hands, have no integrity, tell everyone how wonderful it is and then what are you really?
Living in HK is very nice, living in mainland China is not.
YOU ARE NOT LEGAL IN CHINA ON A VISITOR VISA despite what the company tells you. You can be arrested and deported.
You cannot have a permanent residence in China on a CREW VISA. It is illegal.Everything is not fine in Hong Kong and there are serious management changes underway in more than one company because a few guys are realizing that there is something wrong. I am not willing to put names here because that breaks the rules.
Time to brief the approach so I close with this. There is a light hearted post on JETBLAST that might be of interest 'Company Hiring.......too funny" for all who work in Asia.
"The 1000 mile journey starts with the first step" Keep walking guys
Last edited by pilotbear; 1st Nov 2012 at 07:08.
according to the PCC website the recruitment manager is ex Cathay Pacific Flight Crew Manager T.P. Why would a company of Tag Asia's side even need a recruitment manager is beyond me..
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Applying via the website is not enough, they receive hundreds of CV's a day, if you are really interested in working in Hong Kong, either call the companies directly, or better still, come and visit HK and go and see the company in person.
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In my experience (on both sides of the hiring table), unannounced "walk ins" and phone calls are mostly unwelcome- you never know what preceded your arrival or what you have just interrupted.
Then again if the company in question hasn't even bothered to set up an automated or generic feed back system, it has brought them on itself. Knowing that an application has been received is not an unreasonable request if you've taken the time to complete and send one. Any decent HR department should have an automated acknowledgement for candidates, as a bare minimum. To me, its absence indicates a certain level of discourtesy or incompetence.
I know nothing of TAG Asia, but its presence on pprune as an extended discussion is a disappointment. The number of decent corporate employers seems to be reducing from numbers of fingers, to number of hands.
Then again if the company in question hasn't even bothered to set up an automated or generic feed back system, it has brought them on itself. Knowing that an application has been received is not an unreasonable request if you've taken the time to complete and send one. Any decent HR department should have an automated acknowledgement for candidates, as a bare minimum. To me, its absence indicates a certain level of discourtesy or incompetence.
I know nothing of TAG Asia, but its presence on pprune as an extended discussion is a disappointment. The number of decent corporate employers seems to be reducing from numbers of fingers, to number of hands.
Last edited by Globalstream; 3rd Nov 2012 at 10:48.
