New tax on Biz Jets?
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New tax on Biz Jets?
Soon there won't be anything they haven't taxed.
BBC News - Budget 2011: Osborne to unveil private jet flight tax
BBC News - Budget 2011: Osborne to unveil private jet flight tax
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And does he also plane to tax car drivers when they're going to work ? (already done maybe...)
At a time of expected changes in bizjet regulation, speaking taxes is maybe not the wisest thing to do... unless you want to see lots of migrating registrations
At a time of expected changes in bizjet regulation, speaking taxes is maybe not the wisest thing to do... unless you want to see lots of migrating registrations
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Private " Jets"??? So that means if you own an Avanti or TBM or Pilatus/Kingair you dont pay the tax? If you own a piston you dont pay the tax? Or is this a tax on all private flights or jets only?
Pace
Pace
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Let's not get excited, if somebody is paying X thousand to charter/use an aircraft then additional "few pounds" per passenger is not going to make any difference.............
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Privet, I´m not wether this is the point. The EU is on a totak power trip these days introducing taxes, fares, duties and whatnot plus new regs that will cost a lot as well within a short time frame. When I arrive or depart the UK, we already pay towards the Emission Trade Scheme, Pax security charges and not to forget an unproportionate big chunk of ATC fees. Landing and Handling fees raise every year plus the fuel that is taxed in a lot of countries for non commercial ops as well. Where the EU said that coorperate air traffic is to exclude from that, the 'regional' Governments such as the German just ignore this reg. We are required to either be a CAMO or contract one.
To cut it short, when 'they' raise the bars higher and higher, some individuals and coorperations won´t continue their use of aircraft in Europe. Thsi might not be of a concern in Russia where money apparently comes 'out of the plug', but I certainly know a lot of companies in 'old' Europe who know what it takes to make Euro...
What I also hate is the way these knitwit politicians put anything that has to do with 'private jet' - as if it is a decease. Fhilty perverts, they fly on these whenever they can.
To cut it short, when 'they' raise the bars higher and higher, some individuals and coorperations won´t continue their use of aircraft in Europe. Thsi might not be of a concern in Russia where money apparently comes 'out of the plug', but I certainly know a lot of companies in 'old' Europe who know what it takes to make Euro...
What I also hate is the way these knitwit politicians put anything that has to do with 'private jet' - as if it is a decease. Fhilty perverts, they fly on these whenever they can.
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Hello!
Maybe, maybe not. If this 30-Euro-tax is the final drop that lets the cask overflow, then so be it. Those persons would have stopped using their aircraft anyway sooner or later.
I rather see it from my point of view as a small taxpayer: When I go on holiday with my family, we have to pay our 30 Euro flying tax each of us. From the little money that all other taxes, health insurance, and so on, leave us with. And our own passengers in the back, for whom money does not seem to matter (*), are excempt from those taxes? That cannot be. Either we all pay them or nobody.
Regards, Max
(*) I was in LSZS a coule of weeks ago (first time since the new regulations, to continue another thead) and found out that they have raised their landing fees by another 200 Euros siince last year (we paid 1700 this time, including "free parking" for 30 minutes...). The apron was still quite full with bizjets of all sizes. So really, this tax does not hit the poorest among our society.
...some individuals and coorperations won´t continue their use of aircraft in Europe...
I rather see it from my point of view as a small taxpayer: When I go on holiday with my family, we have to pay our 30 Euro flying tax each of us. From the little money that all other taxes, health insurance, and so on, leave us with. And our own passengers in the back, for whom money does not seem to matter (*), are excempt from those taxes? That cannot be. Either we all pay them or nobody.
Regards, Max
(*) I was in LSZS a coule of weeks ago (first time since the new regulations, to continue another thead) and found out that they have raised their landing fees by another 200 Euros siince last year (we paid 1700 this time, including "free parking" for 30 minutes...). The apron was still quite full with bizjets of all sizes. So really, this tax does not hit the poorest among our society.
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I didnt sell my car when they yet again raised fuel tax for cars.....Im sure same applies for our passengers/owners.......2 things in life you can never escape......DEATH and TAXES
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max, probably you´re right. OTOH, in Germany we don´t have that duty. In Autria it will start april first, with 3 different levels of taxation on short, medium and longhaul flights (thinks it 8/15/35€). Only if you fly from one of the 6 internatinional airports in Austria. (LOWW/WI/WS/WL/WK/WG), you need to have a "Fiskalvertreter" (which has to be a appointed by the reporting body [aka aircraft owner - that is for ANYONE, a C150 or a BBJ2] and report I believe every 3 months. Now multiply this with - how many member has the madhouse now?27? How much costs wil this create? - with everyone having his own thoughs nd you have just created a hell of a problem for those who have to cope with the sheit.
In our case me - meaning I will have to make more hours for something we all would NEVER accept for our private car for heavens sake. Or would you allow the state to make you pay for riding in your own car beyond what we already pay???
Are we back to communism or already beyond that? Tats what I fear we are beyond it. And lets not forget WHO pays MOT and who doesnt. So why exactly has a PRIVATE OWNER of a Jet pay for something a private client of a charter firm hasn´t?
In our case me - meaning I will have to make more hours for something we all would NEVER accept for our private car for heavens sake. Or would you allow the state to make you pay for riding in your own car beyond what we already pay???
Are we back to communism or already beyond that? Tats what I fear we are beyond it. And lets not forget WHO pays MOT and who doesnt. So why exactly has a PRIVATE OWNER of a Jet pay for something a private client of a charter firm hasn´t?
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Where's my wallet gone?
1. Was there any indication to the actual level of tax that is considered being applied?
2. If it does go ahead then is there any indication to where the tax generated will be invested? Will it be re-invested into aviation or simply into the general black hole of UK finances?!
Lets hope the answers are: 1. Low. 2. Aviation.
2. If it does go ahead then is there any indication to where the tax generated will be invested? Will it be re-invested into aviation or simply into the general black hole of UK finances?!
Lets hope the answers are: 1. Low. 2. Aviation.
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The way I see it, this is going to hit two categories of AOs the hardest: the small AOCs, and the owner-pilot businessmen. The effects of this then trickle down to the likes of yours truly.
Not cool.
Not cool.
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Hold fire on this - it's just a bold statement so far from our mate George - sounds like he's still on the banker-bashing adgenda for the benefit of joe public. Nobody knows what will be introduced, how, when, what weight or size of aircraft, whether public transport, private or both, inbound, outbound, domestic, international, EU/UK or any other weired and dodgy registers (less than half UK-based private 'executive' aircraft are on EU27 registers), all turbine, piston and turbine, jet only, tax on pax (APD), new or increased fuel duty - Avgas and/or Jet, VAT say on charters with more than 'X' passenger seats or over a certain weight etc. etc.
As those US Senators say, there's one hell of a lot of known unknowns.
They'll come up with a number of options, go out to consultation, realise it's impossible to administer, monitor or control, find that there are a multitude of loop-holes and international laws that render any proposal unenforcable and shelve the whole idea. It is more than likely to cost more in administration, monitoring and implimentation than they will make - and you can bet your bottom dollar that not a penny will go to any environmental pot anyway.
Ask for transparency and they'll all get awkward and give up.
As those US Senators say, there's one hell of a lot of known unknowns.
They'll come up with a number of options, go out to consultation, realise it's impossible to administer, monitor or control, find that there are a multitude of loop-holes and international laws that render any proposal unenforcable and shelve the whole idea. It is more than likely to cost more in administration, monitoring and implimentation than they will make - and you can bet your bottom dollar that not a penny will go to any environmental pot anyway.
Ask for transparency and they'll all get awkward and give up.
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As published in the 2011 - page 63
2.141 Aviation tax: consultation and business jets – At the June Budget 2010, the Government announced it would explore changes to the aviation tax system and that major changes would be subject to consultation.
A consultation on the structure of APD, launched on 23 March 2011 (today), includes plans to extend the duty to flights taken aboard business jets. (Finance Bill 2012)
A consultation on the structure of APD, launched on 23 March 2011 (today), includes plans to extend the duty to flights taken aboard business jets. (Finance Bill 2012)
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The consultation, whenever that happens, will drag on for who knows how long and they'll realise it's way too complicated and costly to administer for just a handful of passengers per typical flight (around 2.5 pasengers for European business aviation).
Can't see operators/aircraft owners being asked to cough up each month their APD dues like the airlines for well over a year yet - the government will find it near impossible to work out who to send the bills to for starters - all those 'offshore' owners on foreign registers with about three or four ownership layers between the titled owner and the actual owner.
Ever tried sending a bill to an aircraft owner on the P4 register?!
Good luck george, you won't be invited back on that yacht anymore.
Can't see operators/aircraft owners being asked to cough up each month their APD dues like the airlines for well over a year yet - the government will find it near impossible to work out who to send the bills to for starters - all those 'offshore' owners on foreign registers with about three or four ownership layers between the titled owner and the actual owner.
Ever tried sending a bill to an aircraft owner on the P4 register?!
Good luck george, you won't be invited back on that yacht anymore.
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APD consultation document for business aviation
Just seen the consultation document, doesn't look good actually:
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/2011budget_airpassenger.htm
HMRC clearly would like to levy the highest rate of APD (£170/passenger today, £186 next year) on any flight of any nature on any aircraft above 5.7 tonnes leaving UK soil. Big helicopters included.
The only exemptions may be medevac-types and those old piston twins using Avgas who pay lots of duty already - not that there are any above 5.7 tonnes anyway?
We had all better get proactive on fighting this one. It will kill the light jet and turboprop market just above 5.7 tonnes take-off weight.
We've got until 17th June to cry foul, so get your pens out.
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/2011budget_airpassenger.htm
HMRC clearly would like to levy the highest rate of APD (£170/passenger today, £186 next year) on any flight of any nature on any aircraft above 5.7 tonnes leaving UK soil. Big helicopters included.
The only exemptions may be medevac-types and those old piston twins using Avgas who pay lots of duty already - not that there are any above 5.7 tonnes anyway?
We had all better get proactive on fighting this one. It will kill the light jet and turboprop market just above 5.7 tonnes take-off weight.
We've got until 17th June to cry foul, so get your pens out.
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The consultation document states that they are "justified" in applying APD to jet burning aircraft because the fuel is not subject to duty..........not true, of course.
JAAMOI does anybody pay duty on private, pleasure flight in "jets".
JAAMOI does anybody pay duty on private, pleasure flight in "jets".
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In the grand scheme of things £170 isn't really that much for a biz-jet is it?
Just don't order catering for a sector, job done!
OB
Just don't order catering for a sector, job done!
OB
