Deer Jet/Capital Airlines
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: MCO (occasionally)
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I'm curious about a few things,
Did you actually interview?
If so, in the interview, what did they ask, and what did they offer you?
If you don't mind, are you typed? How many hours in the aircraft you interviewed for.
Thanks
FR
Did you actually interview?
If so, in the interview, what did they ask, and what did they offer you?
If you don't mind, are you typed? How many hours in the aircraft you interviewed for.
Thanks
FR
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Pay
Anyone that accepts a job flying a G550 in China for the money these guys are offering needs to have their heads examined. If you can afford a G550 you can afford to pay your people enough to be happy and stay in the job because they like where they are.
I pay more than these guys for a 30 on/30 off rotation with my guys. Strangely enough I haven't had anybody leave yet....................
I pay more than these guys for a 30 on/30 off rotation with my guys. Strangely enough I haven't had anybody leave yet....................
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: MCO (occasionally)
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Shanghi Deer Jet OR Capital?
I've just noticed that Shanghi Deer Jet and Capital airlines executive both have adverts for GV rated pilots.
Could anyone with knowledge please let me know what the differences are?
Usual things, schedule, conditions etc.
Thanks much in advance!
Frank
FR
Could anyone with knowledge please let me know what the differences are?
Usual things, schedule, conditions etc.
Thanks much in advance!
Frank
FR
Join Date: Apr 2008
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OMG! For you guys considering China:
Just met a recruiter from one of the companies that beat the bushes for Hainan, China Cargo, and DeerJet/Beijing Capital. She said a few amazing facts: First; you must take a Chinese ATP written test upon arrival. Most candidates study 5-6 days a week for 4-5 months, and only 30% pass the first time. Second, the medical takes two days, and includes loads of tests. Many pilots fail here as well. Almost NONE of the operations will come through on a commuting contract...
there you go!
FR
Just met a recruiter from one of the companies that beat the bushes for Hainan, China Cargo, and DeerJet/Beijing Capital. She said a few amazing facts: First; you must take a Chinese ATP written test upon arrival. Most candidates study 5-6 days a week for 4-5 months, and only 30% pass the first time. Second, the medical takes two days, and includes loads of tests. Many pilots fail here as well. Almost NONE of the operations will come through on a commuting contract...
there you go!
FR
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: uk
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Brookfield DeerJet Contract Beware
The following will confirm and elaborate on what others have posted above:
1) Beware of possible reduction in terms offered, I have seen four different contracts each progressively worse.
2) You may initially be offered a commuting contract and have that changed to a non-commuting contract at some stage.
3) Hour requirements in Brookfield adverts appear to be irrelevant, some candidates offered employment with less than the advertised minimums and some candidates rejected on grounds of insufficient experience when they exceed the advertised hours.
4) Only about 30% of applicants pass the medical and ATP on their first visit to China. This means that 60% - 70% of applicants will have wasted a great deal of effort for nothing.
5) The documentation requirements are onerous for these positions (as they are for many positions in China) you may have to spend time and incur expense to sort these documents out and never be offered a contract.
6) It appears that there may be communication between the different Chinese Gulfstream operators and playing one off against another may result in a contract offer being withdrawn.
7) In most parts of the world long range business jet pilots have equal or better employment conditions compared to narrow body airline pilots. In China this situation seems to be reversed.
8) In summary, the whole contract placement process is poorly managed, chances of a successful contract placement are low. Once placed terms and conditions are lower than you would expect elsewhere on the same aircraft and are lower than you would expect in China on a different aircraft.
9) These Chinese operators have large numbers of aircraft scheduled for delivery over the next few years. If they are able to drive down the terms and conditions of their long range business jet pilots we will see these lower conditions spread to other parts of the world. If these operators are unable to attract pilots they will have to increase the contract packages.
1) Beware of possible reduction in terms offered, I have seen four different contracts each progressively worse.
2) You may initially be offered a commuting contract and have that changed to a non-commuting contract at some stage.
3) Hour requirements in Brookfield adverts appear to be irrelevant, some candidates offered employment with less than the advertised minimums and some candidates rejected on grounds of insufficient experience when they exceed the advertised hours.
4) Only about 30% of applicants pass the medical and ATP on their first visit to China. This means that 60% - 70% of applicants will have wasted a great deal of effort for nothing.
5) The documentation requirements are onerous for these positions (as they are for many positions in China) you may have to spend time and incur expense to sort these documents out and never be offered a contract.
6) It appears that there may be communication between the different Chinese Gulfstream operators and playing one off against another may result in a contract offer being withdrawn.
7) In most parts of the world long range business jet pilots have equal or better employment conditions compared to narrow body airline pilots. In China this situation seems to be reversed.
8) In summary, the whole contract placement process is poorly managed, chances of a successful contract placement are low. Once placed terms and conditions are lower than you would expect elsewhere on the same aircraft and are lower than you would expect in China on a different aircraft.
9) These Chinese operators have large numbers of aircraft scheduled for delivery over the next few years. If they are able to drive down the terms and conditions of their long range business jet pilots we will see these lower conditions spread to other parts of the world. If these operators are unable to attract pilots they will have to increase the contract packages.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Deer Jet selection process
Hi,
This is my first post on PPrune but I have been through most of the recruitment process for Deer Jet recently, and I think my experience with them might be worth sharing with future candidates.
I applied through an agent (Airspan China) for a Hawker captain's position based Shanghai. Standard Chinese contract : 10 000$ / month + 1000$ housing allowance and 2 months on 1 month OFF.
The recruitment process was to take place as follows :
- Prepare for 3 weeks minimum for the Chinese ATP theory exam (studying material was provided by the agent)
- Then 1st trip to Shaghai for ATP theory exam, Chinese class1 medical, Chinese immigration medical and interview
- Then if successful, second trip to Dubai for sim check ride (Chinese ATP) with chinese CAA examiner.
- If successfull, employment ASAP in the company
So I started studying the ATP for one month through the studying material provided as well as with Gleim (strongly recommended)
In the meantime I obtained my Chinese double entry visa and was called to Shanghai for 4 days end of May.
Once there, accommodation and per diems were provided and my airline tickets were reembursed by Deer Jet. Visas and Gleim preparation were at my own expense.
Chinese ATP exam went fine thanks to the study material provided and the large time I spent preparing, but I must say it is not an easy exam.
I also passed both medicals but they are very very tough and thourough
Interview was very friendly but what surprised me, was that they said they had no foreign pilots employed yet, and also the people we met seemed to have limited knowledge of bizz aviation. Anyway, all went fine and they said they hoped we wouldn't let them down becaus they were desperate in finding pilots.
They promised to contact us soon with sim dates so that we could take the check ride.
So I airlined back home with a good impression waiting for them to call me for the sim. In the meantime, I had to obtain a certifcate from my CAA stating my licence was authentic, a safety records certificate, and a criminal records certificate, translated in Chinese and certified by both French authorities and Chinese Embassy.
Since this can only be done in person, I had to travel to Paris for a few days and obtain all these documents at my own expense. Overall, it took me 2 months and cost me 1000 euros to get everything sorted.
Once all these documents were sent to Deer Jet, my agent, Airspan China emailed me that Deer Jet had changed the contract terms to a non-commuting offer with unacceptable salaries and so Airspan refused to work for them anymore. I was offered to deal with them directly if I still wanted to work for them but at my own risk.
I therefore contacted Deer Jet, saying I was still interested, but they never dared to reply.
So in the end, a lot of time, effort and money spent for nothing. Also, I need to mention that I kept in touch with other people that went through the same selection process for Deer Jet or Capital Airlines and the same thing happened to them. None was called for the sim nor signed a contract.
So to all future candidates, all I say is be carefull and think twice before applying. I still don't understand why Deer Jet started a complicated and costly recruitment process to end up cancelling everything without even informing the candidates. I would be curious to know if any westerners actually work for them now and how it goes.
Good luck and all the best to future candidates.
This is my first post on PPrune but I have been through most of the recruitment process for Deer Jet recently, and I think my experience with them might be worth sharing with future candidates.
I applied through an agent (Airspan China) for a Hawker captain's position based Shanghai. Standard Chinese contract : 10 000$ / month + 1000$ housing allowance and 2 months on 1 month OFF.
The recruitment process was to take place as follows :
- Prepare for 3 weeks minimum for the Chinese ATP theory exam (studying material was provided by the agent)
- Then 1st trip to Shaghai for ATP theory exam, Chinese class1 medical, Chinese immigration medical and interview
- Then if successful, second trip to Dubai for sim check ride (Chinese ATP) with chinese CAA examiner.
- If successfull, employment ASAP in the company
So I started studying the ATP for one month through the studying material provided as well as with Gleim (strongly recommended)
In the meantime I obtained my Chinese double entry visa and was called to Shanghai for 4 days end of May.
Once there, accommodation and per diems were provided and my airline tickets were reembursed by Deer Jet. Visas and Gleim preparation were at my own expense.
Chinese ATP exam went fine thanks to the study material provided and the large time I spent preparing, but I must say it is not an easy exam.
I also passed both medicals but they are very very tough and thourough
Interview was very friendly but what surprised me, was that they said they had no foreign pilots employed yet, and also the people we met seemed to have limited knowledge of bizz aviation. Anyway, all went fine and they said they hoped we wouldn't let them down becaus they were desperate in finding pilots.
They promised to contact us soon with sim dates so that we could take the check ride.
So I airlined back home with a good impression waiting for them to call me for the sim. In the meantime, I had to obtain a certifcate from my CAA stating my licence was authentic, a safety records certificate, and a criminal records certificate, translated in Chinese and certified by both French authorities and Chinese Embassy.
Since this can only be done in person, I had to travel to Paris for a few days and obtain all these documents at my own expense. Overall, it took me 2 months and cost me 1000 euros to get everything sorted.
Once all these documents were sent to Deer Jet, my agent, Airspan China emailed me that Deer Jet had changed the contract terms to a non-commuting offer with unacceptable salaries and so Airspan refused to work for them anymore. I was offered to deal with them directly if I still wanted to work for them but at my own risk.
I therefore contacted Deer Jet, saying I was still interested, but they never dared to reply.
So in the end, a lot of time, effort and money spent for nothing. Also, I need to mention that I kept in touch with other people that went through the same selection process for Deer Jet or Capital Airlines and the same thing happened to them. None was called for the sim nor signed a contract.
So to all future candidates, all I say is be carefull and think twice before applying. I still don't understand why Deer Jet started a complicated and costly recruitment process to end up cancelling everything without even informing the candidates. I would be curious to know if any westerners actually work for them now and how it goes.
Good luck and all the best to future candidates.
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Deer Jet through Hasco
Hi Guys,
I'm interviewing very soon and after reading these warnings, I'm very anxious and cautious. Yet optimistic, I got all my papers done in a month with little hassle I paid a service to go through the Chinese embassy. The contract look good so far, on paper. If I live in base, Shanghai which is a beautiful city. Curious it sounds really tough, sim, interview and testing process. I was hoping to get it all done in one trip. Guess not. Please help me out so I don't take missteps. I've seen the clauses to only go through one provider, how dose that compare to working directly with out a middle man is there a standard contract or is everyone on there own? Any Pilots on line that do fly please PM me or tell us all the secret to success.
I'm interviewing very soon and after reading these warnings, I'm very anxious and cautious. Yet optimistic, I got all my papers done in a month with little hassle I paid a service to go through the Chinese embassy. The contract look good so far, on paper. If I live in base, Shanghai which is a beautiful city. Curious it sounds really tough, sim, interview and testing process. I was hoping to get it all done in one trip. Guess not. Please help me out so I don't take missteps. I've seen the clauses to only go through one provider, how dose that compare to working directly with out a middle man is there a standard contract or is everyone on there own? Any Pilots on line that do fly please PM me or tell us all the secret to success.
Gents,
A guy has, less than a month ago, described how they f@cked him around and he has even detailed it. Are your really sure you wanna go?
Sorry not being able to provide the details you request, but only raise my eyebrows at it.
Best of luck with getting a job, just dont waste money and time dealing with obvious amateures.
A guy has, less than a month ago, described how they f@cked him around and he has even detailed it. Are your really sure you wanna go?
Sorry not being able to provide the details you request, but only raise my eyebrows at it.
Best of luck with getting a job, just dont waste money and time dealing with obvious amateures.
Join Date: Feb 2012
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I'm currently filling out an app with Tempo Aviation for a G200 position with Deer Jet in Shanghai. The terms sent to me were different than those above though. My offer is not a commuting contract. 30 consecutive days leave annually, minimum 5 days off per month (supposedly allowed to take two months worth back to back), $11,500 USD month, 6000 CNY for housing. I've had a good job for years, but it's going away. As a result I've been out of the job market for years also. Have no idea what's considered fair and reasonable anymore. Soooo,
Anyone have experience with Tempo? Are the complaints mostly with the contract agencies, or with the company/airline? I've read about the rigid requirements/interview process. My offer says the tickets, paperwork, etc. will be paid by the airline. Ground transport provided, only liability insurance provided as far as I can tell, per diem seems low at 200 CNY domestic and US $60 international. 4 tickets home annually (2 confirmed, 2 ID75). How does this sound for the going rates? I have no idea, and would appreciate any insight, including living/housing costs in China. It seems to me the pay is low, for not being a commuting contract. Thanks guys.
Anyone have experience with Tempo? Are the complaints mostly with the contract agencies, or with the company/airline? I've read about the rigid requirements/interview process. My offer says the tickets, paperwork, etc. will be paid by the airline. Ground transport provided, only liability insurance provided as far as I can tell, per diem seems low at 200 CNY domestic and US $60 international. 4 tickets home annually (2 confirmed, 2 ID75). How does this sound for the going rates? I have no idea, and would appreciate any insight, including living/housing costs in China. It seems to me the pay is low, for not being a commuting contract. Thanks guys.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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What part of "Don't do it" is so hard for you guys to understand??? The low down is that these guys aren't the best to deal with.... You will pay for your interview, chances are dubious you will get hired, and if you do, you will carry bags for a Captain who is far less experienced than you... I doubt anyone reading this post has the CV to grab a commuting position. ... Your 5 days a month are one day a week, at random... You can NOT NOT double up vaca...
Oh, go there if you must, it will be entertaining to listen to the boo hoo hoo a few months from now...
Look, there are some good opportunities in China, get you to looking.. Oh, avoid the agencies as well. They do not add anything to the process.
Just my .02
Oh, go there if you must, it will be entertaining to listen to the boo hoo hoo a few months from now...
Look, there are some good opportunities in China, get you to looking.. Oh, avoid the agencies as well. They do not add anything to the process.
Just my .02
Join Date: Jul 2012
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BAA
4SPAR:
I'm currently flying the Falcon 2000LX and 900EX as Captain for a large US corporation. I have just completed my 7X Type, but have yet to fly the actual aircraft.
I fell in love with Asia when I started in this position back in 2008.
Can you provide some insight with regard to life as a corporate pilot (with a young family) in Asia? What operators would you recommend I look into?
Thanks for your time.
I'm currently flying the Falcon 2000LX and 900EX as Captain for a large US corporation. I have just completed my 7X Type, but have yet to fly the actual aircraft.
I fell in love with Asia when I started in this position back in 2008.
Can you provide some insight with regard to life as a corporate pilot (with a young family) in Asia? What operators would you recommend I look into?
Thanks for your time.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Hi Kitchen and fellow PPRuners,
I'm happy in Asia and BAA specifically. This is a work in progress for us pilots as well as my company. Everyone is striving toward a sustainable lifestyle and mature SOPs.
I like working in Mainland as opposed to more "Westernized" places like HK or Singapore because I'm experiencing more of the true culture. Having said that, its not for everyone and each person needs to try it for themselves.
You commit yourself to a life of personal stretching by coming here and the rewards are commensurate with the challenges.
Landed at Kunming's massive new airport today. The airport is less than a month old and it's exquisite.
Kunming is nestled in a range of gentle mountains and our approach afforded us a pleasant tour of this, yet another, beautiful city in our tour.
I could offer snippets like this all day, every day, and still, each person has to find his own "happy place."
Of course, we'd love to have you here. I can definitely tell you that your affection for Asia is well placed. But, as long as you're with that major US corporation and they're typing you in nice planes like the 7X you're probably best off putting Asia on your bucket list; particularly with a young family.
Please feel free to stay in touch.
Best,
Mike
I'm happy in Asia and BAA specifically. This is a work in progress for us pilots as well as my company. Everyone is striving toward a sustainable lifestyle and mature SOPs.
I like working in Mainland as opposed to more "Westernized" places like HK or Singapore because I'm experiencing more of the true culture. Having said that, its not for everyone and each person needs to try it for themselves.
You commit yourself to a life of personal stretching by coming here and the rewards are commensurate with the challenges.
Landed at Kunming's massive new airport today. The airport is less than a month old and it's exquisite.
Kunming is nestled in a range of gentle mountains and our approach afforded us a pleasant tour of this, yet another, beautiful city in our tour.
I could offer snippets like this all day, every day, and still, each person has to find his own "happy place."
Of course, we'd love to have you here. I can definitely tell you that your affection for Asia is well placed. But, as long as you're with that major US corporation and they're typing you in nice planes like the 7X you're probably best off putting Asia on your bucket list; particularly with a young family.
Please feel free to stay in touch.
Best,
Mike