Air Partner Private Jets
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Re APPJ
Come on gentlemen its sad to hear of any company going under with the loss of Jobs.
I have not been close to the industry for about 2 years but still talk to a lot of people who are.
Ap formed APPJ when the times were good sadly they timed it wrong as did many of the Banks etc.
They had a good team at APPJ and I am sure they all worked there Bollxxks off to try to keep it going sadly they could not.
Its a sign of the current shxx climate we are in.
Re JB
I Have known JB for a good number of years and in my opinion he would not have given this fight up liteley so let stop knocking JB he did his upmost I am sure unless hes changed in the past 2-3 years to keep this project going.
Good luck to all the staff and I hope you find something soon.
Regards
Gerry (used to be with Northern Exec at Manchester)
Come on gentlemen its sad to hear of any company going under with the loss of Jobs.
I have not been close to the industry for about 2 years but still talk to a lot of people who are.
Ap formed APPJ when the times were good sadly they timed it wrong as did many of the Banks etc.
They had a good team at APPJ and I am sure they all worked there Bollxxks off to try to keep it going sadly they could not.
Its a sign of the current shxx climate we are in.
Re JB
I Have known JB for a good number of years and in my opinion he would not have given this fight up liteley so let stop knocking JB he did his upmost I am sure unless hes changed in the past 2-3 years to keep this project going.
Good luck to all the staff and I hope you find something soon.
Regards
Gerry (used to be with Northern Exec at Manchester)
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Gerry.
Sorry but with regard to JB you are wrong. In my opinion, his lack of vision,enterprise and charisma led to the demise of a good company and the loss of 50 odd jobs. We now have some of the finest people I ever had the privilege of working with on the dole due to his mis-management.
He has an almost pathological dislike for pilots that is shared by his brother ( who was brought in as Chief Engineer despite having far better people already in situ, in a breathtaking bout of nepotism) brought about by jealousy and lack of knowledge.
When in negotiations for the roster change last year he was heard to say "well you gave us a kicking in the last pay deal, now it's our turn". What kind of juvenile playground mentality is that for a senior manager?
When backed into a corner by some probing questioning by a well respected captain at a meeting, his response was "there's something very unpleasant about you" in front of a room full of people!
He was hugely out of his depth and he should have had the B*lls to admit it and leave, but greed is a great motivator.
Sorry (no i'm not actually) but Justin Hairdresser deserves all that the dole queue offers, after all, he's caused 50 other (good) people to be on it!
He's a nasty vindictive bully boy who's character has been unmasked and finally (I hope) someone at the parent company has realised this and removed him.
Sorry but with regard to JB you are wrong. In my opinion, his lack of vision,enterprise and charisma led to the demise of a good company and the loss of 50 odd jobs. We now have some of the finest people I ever had the privilege of working with on the dole due to his mis-management.
He has an almost pathological dislike for pilots that is shared by his brother ( who was brought in as Chief Engineer despite having far better people already in situ, in a breathtaking bout of nepotism) brought about by jealousy and lack of knowledge.
When in negotiations for the roster change last year he was heard to say "well you gave us a kicking in the last pay deal, now it's our turn". What kind of juvenile playground mentality is that for a senior manager?
When backed into a corner by some probing questioning by a well respected captain at a meeting, his response was "there's something very unpleasant about you" in front of a room full of people!
He was hugely out of his depth and he should have had the B*lls to admit it and leave, but greed is a great motivator.
Sorry (no i'm not actually) but Justin Hairdresser deserves all that the dole queue offers, after all, he's caused 50 other (good) people to be on it!
He's a nasty vindictive bully boy who's character has been unmasked and finally (I hope) someone at the parent company has realised this and removed him.
Last edited by flapassym; 18th Mar 2010 at 07:55.
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spot on with that reply about JB.
From talking to brokers and direct customers the one reason they did not use the learjets was because of this JB.
I ve been told a broker used their learjet (05/06) as they only flew in aircraft under 5 years old and it went tech.
JB decided not to inform the broker and replaced it with a 1980 citation ii.
When the broker found out JB said it was a like for like replacement. (ie light jets).
The broker said that they were not happy with it and the customer would want some sort of price reduction, JB response was "if you dont like it take us to court, and we will win".
That broker never used them again.
I also have been told that, when a broker put a client on one of the Learjets, a few days after the trip, a nice letter from the APPJ would arrive at the passengers address informing them about APPJ, This would apear that JB was targeting the brokers customer to steel future business.
I must say though all the other staff at APPJ are great and i hope you all find something very soon.
From talking to brokers and direct customers the one reason they did not use the learjets was because of this JB.
I ve been told a broker used their learjet (05/06) as they only flew in aircraft under 5 years old and it went tech.
JB decided not to inform the broker and replaced it with a 1980 citation ii.
When the broker found out JB said it was a like for like replacement. (ie light jets).
The broker said that they were not happy with it and the customer would want some sort of price reduction, JB response was "if you dont like it take us to court, and we will win".
That broker never used them again.
I also have been told that, when a broker put a client on one of the Learjets, a few days after the trip, a nice letter from the APPJ would arrive at the passengers address informing them about APPJ, This would apear that JB was targeting the brokers customer to steel future business.
I must say though all the other staff at APPJ are great and i hope you all find something very soon.
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Best of luck to all....
....at APPJ.
Not sure the criticism of JB is necessarily true. I am sure he potentially had his hands tied from higher powers that be but I stand by what I have always said in that the size of a company such as AP, they should stick with what they are good at. I never had a problem with JB and like the guy enormously. Everyone makes duff decisions no matter what level so beware those that cast stones and anyone that denies that comment, well you must be at the helm of the most successful operation in the world, let us know who it is then!
Infighting aside the same thing happened in the early days of Bookajet. The balance just could not be achieved and plus you became a pariah in the market being a broker and operator and announcing it to the world. The industry is still to an extent old school to easily adapt to such a hybrid but everyone is trying new things and the market is so diversified right now it is hard to see what anyone is actually operating as there core business in some instances.
The whole APPJ thing took me by surprise to be fair as again harking back to Bookajet days AP would not touch Bookajet with a barge pole for having exactly the same setup as what they themselves have tried to achieve and probably through a mixture of unrealistic prices and maybe operator experience to recoup well over the odds they probably paid for GoldAir the whole empire has come crashing down. To be fair with the customer base they have if anyone could have made it work, industry downturn or not it should have been AP. Something has gone terribly tits up methinks.
Having said all that though, best of luck to all.
TB
Not sure the criticism of JB is necessarily true. I am sure he potentially had his hands tied from higher powers that be but I stand by what I have always said in that the size of a company such as AP, they should stick with what they are good at. I never had a problem with JB and like the guy enormously. Everyone makes duff decisions no matter what level so beware those that cast stones and anyone that denies that comment, well you must be at the helm of the most successful operation in the world, let us know who it is then!
Infighting aside the same thing happened in the early days of Bookajet. The balance just could not be achieved and plus you became a pariah in the market being a broker and operator and announcing it to the world. The industry is still to an extent old school to easily adapt to such a hybrid but everyone is trying new things and the market is so diversified right now it is hard to see what anyone is actually operating as there core business in some instances.
The whole APPJ thing took me by surprise to be fair as again harking back to Bookajet days AP would not touch Bookajet with a barge pole for having exactly the same setup as what they themselves have tried to achieve and probably through a mixture of unrealistic prices and maybe operator experience to recoup well over the odds they probably paid for GoldAir the whole empire has come crashing down. To be fair with the customer base they have if anyone could have made it work, industry downturn or not it should have been AP. Something has gone terribly tits up methinks.
Having said all that though, best of luck to all.
TB
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TB nail on the head I think applies old chap. Sad though it may be, there are some positions out there for the folks to go for, be they BIZAV or Airline.
From day one I though that DS's ego trip over bought, and the Gold Air purchase was wrong.
For those who don't like my comments, I do not apologise, why ?, I've known AP (Air London) from the very early 60s
A (T) Mack was a mentor to me at LGW in the early 60s.
Good luck folks, the LR45 was a bad deal, also poaching didn't endear your so called new providers of revenue to the industry.
And to JetSet41, you can vent yer spleen on me any time, you can PM me if you want a chat
From day one I though that DS's ego trip over bought, and the Gold Air purchase was wrong.
For those who don't like my comments, I do not apologise, why ?, I've known AP (Air London) from the very early 60s
A (T) Mack was a mentor to me at LGW in the early 60s.Good luck folks, the LR45 was a bad deal, also poaching didn't endear your so called new providers of revenue to the industry.
And to JetSet41, you can vent yer spleen on me any time, you can PM me if you want a chat
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Benemack quote - "I'm doing my best - there's not that many other insolvency practitioners that really understand aviation" Benemark you do not understand aviation you are just a sad spotter. Did Deloittes sack you? What you know about aviation you could fit on a pin head. 
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They had a good team at APPJ and I am sure they all worked there Bollxxks off to try to keep it going sadly they could not.
Its a sign of the current shxx climate we are in.
Re JB
I Have known JB for a good number of years and in my opinion he would not have given this fight up liteley so let stop knocking JB he did his upmost I am sure unless hes changed in the past 2-3 years to keep this project going.
I don't know anyone there, but looking at the business press yesterday they took over £3 million of losses in 18 months so whoever was in charge certainly threw serious money and effort at trying to make it work. How many other people would have gone that far?
Normally we criticise management for cutting and running; hardly the case here..... unless I'm missing something.
Its a sign of the current shxx climate we are in.
Re JB
I Have known JB for a good number of years and in my opinion he would not have given this fight up liteley so let stop knocking JB he did his upmost I am sure unless hes changed in the past 2-3 years to keep this project going.
I don't know anyone there, but looking at the business press yesterday they took over £3 million of losses in 18 months so whoever was in charge certainly threw serious money and effort at trying to make it work. How many other people would have gone that far?
Normally we criticise management for cutting and running; hardly the case here..... unless I'm missing something.
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How sad it was to learn of APPJ calling in the administrator. It has been a terrible 18 months for the industry which frankly even before the recession suffered from too much capacity.
If you look at the history of Air Partner (Air London) they started as an air taxi and training school in the 1960's 70'. This was all closed down / sold when the decision was made (I seem to recall in the late 1970's / 80's) to concentrate their efforts in charter brokering. This was a very good decision for it made the company and its directors millions. Perhaps they should have stuck to what they know best and avoided the impulse purchase of Gold Air?
Brokers dont like chartering aircraft from Brokers, however, independent APPJ were of their parent company. Once again taking a look in the past, duirng the 1980's McCalpine had a BAC 1-11 which Air London (Partner) were given exclusive marketing rights, the result was that they achieved very little charter work for it as most brokers were concernded of their clients picking up an Air London brochure in the seat back pocket!
It is very difficult to make money operating buiness jets. If you look around at some of the companies that have made a success of it these tend to be the one's that manage aircraft on behalf of private individuals / corporations and keep their cost base as low as possible. They also tend to be very traditional in their management methods; i.e. the owners pick up the costs of operating the aircraft and any income from charter revenues off-sets some of the ownership costs. Of course, these traditional companies are not without their own problems, but they tend to survive because they keep operating costs to a minimum.
Over the last decade we have seen so many companies (Netjets) come into the market place with new idea's; their success has been minimal and some have only been kept going by large parent companies pumping millions into them. The result is that we are awash with too many business jets chasing too few clients; the profitability of the charter market has been diluted and it will take many years and more failures to make it lucrative again.
It is a tragedy when you do see companies fail and people put out of work, such a waste of talent; but I fear that we will see more in the coming months.
I have no axe to grind against APPJ or AP. Good luck to their former employees, I hope they manage to find new jobs.
If you look at the history of Air Partner (Air London) they started as an air taxi and training school in the 1960's 70'. This was all closed down / sold when the decision was made (I seem to recall in the late 1970's / 80's) to concentrate their efforts in charter brokering. This was a very good decision for it made the company and its directors millions. Perhaps they should have stuck to what they know best and avoided the impulse purchase of Gold Air?
Brokers dont like chartering aircraft from Brokers, however, independent APPJ were of their parent company. Once again taking a look in the past, duirng the 1980's McCalpine had a BAC 1-11 which Air London (Partner) were given exclusive marketing rights, the result was that they achieved very little charter work for it as most brokers were concernded of their clients picking up an Air London brochure in the seat back pocket!
It is very difficult to make money operating buiness jets. If you look around at some of the companies that have made a success of it these tend to be the one's that manage aircraft on behalf of private individuals / corporations and keep their cost base as low as possible. They also tend to be very traditional in their management methods; i.e. the owners pick up the costs of operating the aircraft and any income from charter revenues off-sets some of the ownership costs. Of course, these traditional companies are not without their own problems, but they tend to survive because they keep operating costs to a minimum.
Over the last decade we have seen so many companies (Netjets) come into the market place with new idea's; their success has been minimal and some have only been kept going by large parent companies pumping millions into them. The result is that we are awash with too many business jets chasing too few clients; the profitability of the charter market has been diluted and it will take many years and more failures to make it lucrative again.
It is a tragedy when you do see companies fail and people put out of work, such a waste of talent; but I fear that we will see more in the coming months.
I have no axe to grind against APPJ or AP. Good luck to their former employees, I hope they manage to find new jobs.
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I agree with most of what LAS1997 has said and also echo his/her very kind sentiments that everyone in this industry wishes the good hard working employees of APPJ biggin hill good fortune in the future.
one point I would like to express a view on if i may is the 'brokers don't like chartering from brokers' theme. It has become quite common now for brokers to have operating arms and operators to have more commercially active broking arms. Twinjet have The Charter Company brokerage, Oceansky do both, and many operators are also broking more these days. Avoiding the use of such suppliers is somewhat short sighted and not a option from someone offering true independant advice to a client.
the solution to fear of client loss is to build good relations and trust with your client and suppliers alike, whoever they may be. If your client values what you do they will stay with you long term, and clients who 'hop about' from supplier to supplier will always do so no matter what is or is not done to induce them.
i hope the good people at biggin hill are back at the wheel again soon. Its not a nice situation for anyone to be in and its a cloud that also hangs over many others in the industry these days.
one point I would like to express a view on if i may is the 'brokers don't like chartering from brokers' theme. It has become quite common now for brokers to have operating arms and operators to have more commercially active broking arms. Twinjet have The Charter Company brokerage, Oceansky do both, and many operators are also broking more these days. Avoiding the use of such suppliers is somewhat short sighted and not a option from someone offering true independant advice to a client.
the solution to fear of client loss is to build good relations and trust with your client and suppliers alike, whoever they may be. If your client values what you do they will stay with you long term, and clients who 'hop about' from supplier to supplier will always do so no matter what is or is not done to induce them.
i hope the good people at biggin hill are back at the wheel again soon. Its not a nice situation for anyone to be in and its a cloud that also hangs over many others in the industry these days.
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Airpartner purchased Goldair in Oct 1996 at a time when the business jet market, along with the economy in general was extremely buoyant, demand for quality aircraft was outstripping supply and AP thought that ownership of an operating company would guarantee supply. They felt that the name Airpartner would attract new management contracts and that managed fleet would expand rapidly and include large cabin types.
Sadly the company has been placed in administration and the final curtain has all but fallen. Was this due to the global recession, down turn in the charter market, poor management, lack of direction from the parent company, the wrong aircraft type, poor management contracts or a combination of all of the above, draw your own conclusions!
Airpartner is not the first business jet company to become insolvent and unfortunately probably will not be the last.
Of greatest importance is not what has happened but how the situation is managed and how the personnel are treated. Fortunately Airpartner is a caring people orientated company with departments for Human Resources, in house training, customer care etc.
Extract from the company’s Corporate Mission Statement “This will be done within a rewarding, professional and fun environment, where people are valued, involved and developed to be the best they can be in their chosen field. “
Airpartner plc proudly state that they are debt free, cash rich and have a bank balance in excess of £14,000,000.
On 15th March 47 professionals from sales, operations, accounts, engineering and pilots were made redundant and dumped unceremoniously into the ranks of the unemployed.
No one received any notice or warning what so ever, they were told to attend a meeting where they were introduced to the administrator to be made redundant.
All company email accounts were closed immediately, all company benefits ceased immediately
No one from the parent company either human resource department or directors turned up at Biggin Hill to explain the situation.
There was not one good will message, card or email sent by any of the Airpartner management. No sorry to see you go, good luck in the future message etc, nothing.
There was no consultation or counselling from human recourses just a presentation by the Job Centre telling everyone how to claim benefits.
There will be no redundancy payments made by the company in spite of the £14m cash reserves.
There will be no payment in lieu of notice paid by the company in spite of the £14m cash reserves.
There is no money to pay debts to suppliers
There was an announcement made reassuring the public that Airpartner plc was still in a strong and healthy position and forecasting positive growth into the future.
The directors will no doubt now be congratulating each other on a job well done and money saved without the slightest thought for the 40+ individuals dumped on the street with nothing.
I do not work for Airpartner but I do know they had a great bunch of professionals working for them at Biggin and I wish them all the very best of luck in finding new jobs.
Sadly the company has been placed in administration and the final curtain has all but fallen. Was this due to the global recession, down turn in the charter market, poor management, lack of direction from the parent company, the wrong aircraft type, poor management contracts or a combination of all of the above, draw your own conclusions!
Airpartner is not the first business jet company to become insolvent and unfortunately probably will not be the last.
Of greatest importance is not what has happened but how the situation is managed and how the personnel are treated. Fortunately Airpartner is a caring people orientated company with departments for Human Resources, in house training, customer care etc.
Extract from the company’s Corporate Mission Statement “This will be done within a rewarding, professional and fun environment, where people are valued, involved and developed to be the best they can be in their chosen field. “
Airpartner plc proudly state that they are debt free, cash rich and have a bank balance in excess of £14,000,000.
On 15th March 47 professionals from sales, operations, accounts, engineering and pilots were made redundant and dumped unceremoniously into the ranks of the unemployed.
No one received any notice or warning what so ever, they were told to attend a meeting where they were introduced to the administrator to be made redundant.
All company email accounts were closed immediately, all company benefits ceased immediately
No one from the parent company either human resource department or directors turned up at Biggin Hill to explain the situation.
There was not one good will message, card or email sent by any of the Airpartner management. No sorry to see you go, good luck in the future message etc, nothing.
There was no consultation or counselling from human recourses just a presentation by the Job Centre telling everyone how to claim benefits.
There will be no redundancy payments made by the company in spite of the £14m cash reserves.
There will be no payment in lieu of notice paid by the company in spite of the £14m cash reserves.
There is no money to pay debts to suppliers
There was an announcement made reassuring the public that Airpartner plc was still in a strong and healthy position and forecasting positive growth into the future.
The directors will no doubt now be congratulating each other on a job well done and money saved without the slightest thought for the 40+ individuals dumped on the street with nothing.
I do not work for Airpartner but I do know they had a great bunch of professionals working for them at Biggin and I wish them all the very best of luck in finding new jobs.
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captsleepy
Well said, bloody sad
My own feeling is that if Tony M.Jnr were still at the helm, maybe this would not have started/finished in such an unholy ****eheap it has come to be.
Still I now hush my mouth, but not my best wishes all those bloody good crew/ops folks at EGKB, good luck folks 
it yup, I feel for ya, keep the faith
My own feeling is that if Tony M.Jnr were still at the helm, maybe this would not have started/finished in such an unholy ****eheap it has come to be. Still I now hush my mouth, but not my best wishes all those bloody good crew/ops folks at EGKB, good luck folks it yup, I feel for ya, keep the faith
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Flapassym and Catsleepy have hit the mark with laser guided accuracy. AP should never have got into operating a/c. They should have stuck to just flogging flights for others to fly them. They were way out of their depth, as was their hapless MD. Is there any room in this business for anyone who upsets brokers anyway? Can anyone afford to throw away charters like that...?
This recent episode has shown up the AP management to be a bunch of cynical cowards. They couldn't even find the courage to send out a few emails to keep the troops in the picture when things turned sour, or even when it went into administration. They seemed to have been very good at showing off at good times and hiding at bad times. Does that come from a career of working for commission? The employees weren't treated as 'team members' as was often quoted but as parts of a machine that was merely switched off. As for the notice pay/ redundancy, don't worry that will go towards the next AP shareholders' dividend payout! What were the AP directors' obscene bonuses for at the end of 09? As they say if a deal looks too good to be true it probably is. In 06 when they bought GAI it looked good...
Good luck to all the great people who worked at APPJ. Let's hope the next job is just around the corner for them all.
D
This recent episode has shown up the AP management to be a bunch of cynical cowards. They couldn't even find the courage to send out a few emails to keep the troops in the picture when things turned sour, or even when it went into administration. They seemed to have been very good at showing off at good times and hiding at bad times. Does that come from a career of working for commission? The employees weren't treated as 'team members' as was often quoted but as parts of a machine that was merely switched off. As for the notice pay/ redundancy, don't worry that will go towards the next AP shareholders' dividend payout! What were the AP directors' obscene bonuses for at the end of 09? As they say if a deal looks too good to be true it probably is. In 06 when they bought GAI it looked good...
Good luck to all the great people who worked at APPJ. Let's hope the next job is just around the corner for them all.
D
Last edited by Dumbledor; 7th Apr 2010 at 12:22.
