Lufthansa Private Jet Management change
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Lufthansa Private Jet Management change
VistaJet, one of the fastest growing business aviation companies, announces the appointment of Dr Gerald Wissel as Executive Vice President and Global Head of Charter Business.
Dr. Wissel (38) joins VistaJet from Lufthansa German Airlines where he spent over seven years and was responsible for LPJ.
Does anyone know who leads LPJ and why Wissel is gone?
VistaJet - Press - Official Press Releases 2009
Dr. Wissel (38) joins VistaJet from Lufthansa German Airlines where he spent over seven years and was responsible for LPJ.
Does anyone know who leads LPJ and why Wissel is gone?
VistaJet - Press - Official Press Releases 2009
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Makes you wonder what's going on when someone leaves what should be one of the most secure private jet employers in Europe, to go to another that is probably a little less so...
I cannot understand Vista: they say they own their fleet and none are managed. Their current flight activity is as bad as everyone else, so surely with serious kit like GLEX, 605 and 300's sitting idle, they must be haemorraging badly. At least netjets have fractional owners behind their G5, FA7X and F2000's who are legally bound to keep paying their subs.
Can anyone explain?
Maybe GW has seen and knows it's all OK, but why leave LPJ when their aircraft are all just arriving?
I cannot understand Vista: they say they own their fleet and none are managed. Their current flight activity is as bad as everyone else, so surely with serious kit like GLEX, 605 and 300's sitting idle, they must be haemorraging badly. At least netjets have fractional owners behind their G5, FA7X and F2000's who are legally bound to keep paying their subs.
Can anyone explain?
Maybe GW has seen and knows it's all OK, but why leave LPJ when their aircraft are all just arriving?
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And how are things with your own fleet, V12?
Vista look to be a growing company with a great deal of ambition.
I imagine that LPJ does not have the same degree of ambition and that GW is moving for these reasons.
Vista look to be a growing company with a great deal of ambition.
I imagine that LPJ does not have the same degree of ambition and that GW is moving for these reasons.
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It could be just because of money. Upper management salaries are not something "standardized" like pilot salaries. Very often less "solid" companies are offering double, triple or even more and this is sufficient reason to move.
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Interesting replies
Dr Wissel is now my new colleague. I have no idea why he moved (it certainly wasn't money!!) however i do know that the business model that drives VistaJet is possibly the only one of the big co's (outside the US) that gives it the best chance to succeed in the current market. For the following reasons. VistaJet have both customers with regular payments and charter (Netjets have no access to the charter market so when customers dont fly, the aircraft cant fly at all and the costs remain the same), VistaJet have customers from all over the world with charter, and fixed customers from New York to Beijing, (NJ Europe are EU only, with a franchise in ME), and most importantly VistaJet have no aircraft that are out of warranty and therefore maintainance is at a minimum. NJ !!!!!!!!!! would you want to be fixing plenty aircraft over 3-10 years old!!
Both are excellent companies, but the models that drive them are 25 years apart.
Hope this helps
DJ101
P.s. Charter is down globally, but youd be surprised what a difference it makes to your deadhead when you own your aircraft and therefore dont have to bring them home empty just for the owner (even if it's paid for VJ dont have to spend the money on fuel)...
Both are excellent companies, but the models that drive them are 25 years apart.
Hope this helps
DJ101
P.s. Charter is down globally, but youd be surprised what a difference it makes to your deadhead when you own your aircraft and therefore dont have to bring them home empty just for the owner (even if it's paid for VJ dont have to spend the money on fuel)...
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This guy didn t move by himself.....has been fired for having screw up the all deal between NJE and LH....Got this info from NJE head directly....
By the way the LH private program is collapsing and they are now trying to get to NJE.....guess what is the answer!!!
By the way the LH private program is collapsing and they are now trying to get to NJE.....guess what is the answer!!!
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....what was the reason the contract between LH and NJE was canceled?
....and now NJ in Egelsbach near FRA (LH`s hub)....doesn`t make sense what you say....
...I see first actions that LH will not promote Egelsbach and even support NJ
....and now NJ in Egelsbach near FRA (LH`s hub)....doesn`t make sense what you say....
...I see first actions that LH will not promote Egelsbach and even support NJ
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It was not cancel, Netjets realised that LH was making lots of money by been charge only ops cost as a normal Netjets owner, the whole ops positionning etc... been done by NJE. The LH customers were so happy that LH 3 years hours bought were flown in 1 year.. initially NJE was supposed to fly LH customers from FFM and MUC to european destinations like LA FFm Sion, LA FFM by LH 1st class and FFM sion by NJE but the deal was so attractive that we were doing mainly point to point and rarely the supposed deal, I even flown a Cabo verde-Tasken- Cabo Verde..or Larnaca -Sibiu ...it was great for LH as the positionning were free of charge for them...NJE realised that they could easily got all those LH customers themself so I soon as the 3 years hours bought by LH were flown Nje could legally refused to renew the contract so they did !
LH start is own charter bizjet business but are struggling as they do not have a frax owner base to compete with NJE business model...NJE continue his strategy of getting LH customers by buying Elgelsbach for 3 M euros and are going to invest 42M in infracstructure.
desjokey101 like LH as no cloud of how NJE modrl is working , he forgot that NJE is selling 25 h Card ..that's charter with a different wording for it...in 2008 Netjets sold 400 of those cards that s 10000 charter hours already sold and also cash in as those card are prepaid with free positionning in Europe and over the North Atlantic ...
LH start is own charter bizjet business but are struggling as they do not have a frax owner base to compete with NJE business model...NJE continue his strategy of getting LH customers by buying Elgelsbach for 3 M euros and are going to invest 42M in infracstructure.
desjokey101 like LH as no cloud of how NJE modrl is working , he forgot that NJE is selling 25 h Card ..that's charter with a different wording for it...in 2008 Netjets sold 400 of those cards that s 10000 charter hours already sold and also cash in as those card are prepaid with free positionning in Europe and over the North Atlantic ...
Last edited by falconbis; 22nd Feb 2009 at 16:49.
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....
this also does not make much sense:
1) You said that NJ operated more point to point flights for LPJ , so why should they buy Egelsbach. The underlying rationale must be that NJ operated a lot of flights ex FRA in the past.
2) It takes a long time that Egelsbach is operational (high political hurdles to take until ILS, runway extension in realized, etc.)---> will NJE wait or exit contract
3) What should be the reason that LH customers should switch to NJE and take high investments into account especially in these times
4) NJE services give their customers less flexibility to decrease costs in bad times ..thats a major issue why NJE has revised its budget for several times
...still remains the question, why Dr Wissel has left LH....
1) You said that NJ operated more point to point flights for LPJ , so why should they buy Egelsbach. The underlying rationale must be that NJ operated a lot of flights ex FRA in the past.
2) It takes a long time that Egelsbach is operational (high political hurdles to take until ILS, runway extension in realized, etc.)---> will NJE wait or exit contract
3) What should be the reason that LH customers should switch to NJE and take high investments into account especially in these times
4) NJE services give their customers less flexibility to decrease costs in bad times ..thats a major issue why NJE has revised its budget for several times
...still remains the question, why Dr Wissel has left LH....
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Deskjockey, as a VistaJet cheerleader in the know do you also know why the COO with a great aviation background ran out of the company as soon as he saw the books? Also why is the OE-INI already for sale? Because things go so well? 
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This guy didn t move by himself.....has been fired for having screw up the all deal between NJE and LH....Got this info from NJE head directly....
By the way the LH private program is collapsing and they are now trying to get to NJE....
Where do you have this enlightening information from? Swiss Private is taking over the LPJ operation from April.....
By the way the LH private program is collapsing and they are now trying to get to NJE....
Where do you have this enlightening information from? Swiss Private is taking over the LPJ operation from April.....
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I said NJE is going to invest 42 M in this airport in infracstructure...so ILS terminal hangars etc...the deal was discussed with local authorities last year when Buffet visit Germany.
We have lots of problems with access to FFM , not only for LH customers thats just a small size of the business...
NJE have lots of German owners , who wants to use FFM and its a pain !
Chrispler
its the crisis but large companies still need to do business and fly, two things are happening now , NJE look more attractive with his frax model to some people who bought an airplane and have to assume the cost even in difficult time or sell it in a time when no one is willing to buy it.. , NJE garanty to buy back your share once you want to get out..
Owners of turboprop or Citation who managed to get rid of their airplane buy card with NJE..some even have park their airplane and fly with a card to spare hours in a hope of sale !!
About flexibility you dont know what you are talking about..you can interchange airplane at no additionnal cost let said you own a XLS and you need a G5 only your credit of hours will be taken at a different rate , you need to be taken from KETB no positionning charge over the Atlantic..you can have multiple airplane if needed, you can also interchange your hours credit and fly with the states or ME.. airplane go tech ? replaced usually in less than 2 h by a upper model.. and you call it less flexibility!!!! the NJE flex is the selling point to executive and Finance directors. So I m not gone go on with all the sales stuff but like in 9/11, NJE usally benefit for those bad time. even so its not party time.
We have lots of problems with access to FFM , not only for LH customers thats just a small size of the business...
NJE have lots of German owners , who wants to use FFM and its a pain !
Chrispler
its the crisis but large companies still need to do business and fly, two things are happening now , NJE look more attractive with his frax model to some people who bought an airplane and have to assume the cost even in difficult time or sell it in a time when no one is willing to buy it.. , NJE garanty to buy back your share once you want to get out..
Owners of turboprop or Citation who managed to get rid of their airplane buy card with NJE..some even have park their airplane and fly with a card to spare hours in a hope of sale !!
About flexibility you dont know what you are talking about..you can interchange airplane at no additionnal cost let said you own a XLS and you need a G5 only your credit of hours will be taken at a different rate , you need to be taken from KETB no positionning charge over the Atlantic..you can have multiple airplane if needed, you can also interchange your hours credit and fly with the states or ME.. airplane go tech ? replaced usually in less than 2 h by a upper model.. and you call it less flexibility!!!! the NJE flex is the selling point to executive and Finance directors. So I m not gone go on with all the sales stuff but like in 9/11, NJE usally benefit for those bad time. even so its not party time.
Last edited by falconbis; 23rd Feb 2009 at 10:35.
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OE-INI is for sale because it is the "oldest" Challenger in the VJ Fleet. If you can describe it as old with a YOM 2005 ;-) Ths is the only reason why the aircraft might be sold.
Since 2 weeks the Schedule of the Planes filled up and we do a lot of flights at the moment.
Since 2 weeks the Schedule of the Planes filled up and we do a lot of flights at the moment.
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Would be interesting to see how deep VJ pockets are. Their idea about taking new aircraft and selling them as they approach to the end of factory warranty may just work on the peak of market but today good luck to them to get anything close to what they expected a year ago.
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Fractionals vs. Charter
Caution! Slight thread creep!
Me thinks that there might be another point of view to the Fractionals vs. Charter business model...
You guessed it, it's the independent charter viewpoint!
The Fractionals have a clever and expensive marketing campaign and I give 'em credit for that, but look at it from a different angle:
A card owner or regular owner with NJE, NJ or all the others, has to put a lot of money down, fixed for a period of time and no early exit strategy that isn't financially devastating to both, the operator and the himself. Why is that? Because at first it seems to have a tax benefit for the customer, but what if you suddenly need cash? The operator has a early exit penalty, let's say it is 30%, so the customer is stiffed for 30%, but in order to keep himself afloat (e.g. not bankrupt) he needs to bite the bullet and rather loses the money.
The fractional operator you think made out on that deal? Wrong! Because the value of his assets - the aircraft - has plummeted to up to 50%!
First time I heard about the free reposition - that seems very attractive for the customer, but as far as the operator goes, how many revenue flights across the pond would he have to make to compensate for one repo flight? Sounds too good to be true - I'm sure there are provisions in the fine print, like "free of charge, only if we have a matching one-way for the return"?
AFAIK here in the US NJ owners still pay for repo legs and monthly maintenance charges, making it almost as expensive as regular charter, but with the lump sum of money invested in an asset with rapidly diminishing value.
I stand to be corrected.
FWIW, I agree that if you have no operator who can charter your personal aircraft a few hours a month, fractional ownership seems to be the way to go. Definitely as far as flexibility goes.
So, back on topic... isn't it possible for Lufthansa to just charter when needed instead of own their own fleet?
Me thinks that there might be another point of view to the Fractionals vs. Charter business model...
You guessed it, it's the independent charter viewpoint!
The Fractionals have a clever and expensive marketing campaign and I give 'em credit for that, but look at it from a different angle:
A card owner or regular owner with NJE, NJ or all the others, has to put a lot of money down, fixed for a period of time and no early exit strategy that isn't financially devastating to both, the operator and the himself. Why is that? Because at first it seems to have a tax benefit for the customer, but what if you suddenly need cash? The operator has a early exit penalty, let's say it is 30%, so the customer is stiffed for 30%, but in order to keep himself afloat (e.g. not bankrupt) he needs to bite the bullet and rather loses the money.
The fractional operator you think made out on that deal? Wrong! Because the value of his assets - the aircraft - has plummeted to up to 50%!
First time I heard about the free reposition - that seems very attractive for the customer, but as far as the operator goes, how many revenue flights across the pond would he have to make to compensate for one repo flight? Sounds too good to be true - I'm sure there are provisions in the fine print, like "free of charge, only if we have a matching one-way for the return"?
AFAIK here in the US NJ owners still pay for repo legs and monthly maintenance charges, making it almost as expensive as regular charter, but with the lump sum of money invested in an asset with rapidly diminishing value.
I stand to be corrected.
FWIW, I agree that if you have no operator who can charter your personal aircraft a few hours a month, fractional ownership seems to be the way to go. Definitely as far as flexibility goes.
So, back on topic... isn't it possible for Lufthansa to just charter when needed instead of own their own fleet?
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NJE utilization seems..I know...
...and their paying moral decreased..I know...
I was checking your previous posts on various other topics. Not exactly a cheery kind of guy are you ? With about 30 posts all along the lines of the ones below... Come on ! Cheer up ! NJE pilots are still employed and many within the company realise that it is a good thing for them. We live with the knowledge that things used to be better, that they have been bad and could be a lot worse. Please tell us what you know.
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