Vnukovo Madness!!
Join Date: Apr 2008
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UUWW
hawker450
Recently one of our crew was "fined" $500 for not declaring his currency on arrival. The "fine" consisted of the crew member being asked to go by himself into an empty room and leaving the cash under a folder on the table. Has this happened to anyone else?
Did you ask your handler what they are paid for ??? Where you using FBO employees or arranged handling through one of Western flight support companies ? I bet, it was 1. So, using a DEDICATED handler will help you and passengers to avoid ALL these troubles.
L'Argonauta
No!!! but in the past i had to sped my overnight on board because i didn't have any available pages for visa on my passport ( customs require a completely blank page because they put on it a huge sticker!! one trip-one sticker, it's crazy man!!!)...maybe my fault but it was the first time in my life!
Hate to say it but it was your mistake. You could make your handler to arrange an emergency visa, so ground agent will stamp it to your passport himself and only after that hand passports to immigration.
Recently one of our crew was "fined" $500 for not declaring his currency on arrival. The "fine" consisted of the crew member being asked to go by himself into an empty room and leaving the cash under a folder on the table. Has this happened to anyone else?
Did you ask your handler what they are paid for ??? Where you using FBO employees or arranged handling through one of Western flight support companies ? I bet, it was 1. So, using a DEDICATED handler will help you and passengers to avoid ALL these troubles.
L'Argonauta
No!!! but in the past i had to sped my overnight on board because i didn't have any available pages for visa on my passport ( customs require a completely blank page because they put on it a huge sticker!! one trip-one sticker, it's crazy man!!!)...maybe my fault but it was the first time in my life!
Hate to say it but it was your mistake. You could make your handler to arrange an emergency visa, so ground agent will stamp it to your passport himself and only after that hand passports to immigration.
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Quote from Wingletnut: "After an uneventful flt, London to Vnukovo, on finals (1.5nm out!) I was told by ATC the airport was closed, completely out of the blue with no warning. When asked when it will re-open they said they weren't sure, maybe an hour, so off we diverted."
Sounds like Madrid Torrejon...
"Sorry, ramp full, you must divert to Barrajas." 
Sorry for the mini-hijack. TC
Sounds like Madrid Torrejon...
"Sorry, ramp full, you must divert to Barrajas." Sorry for the mini-hijack. TC
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mokba
No!!! but in the past i had to sped my overnight on board because i didn't have any available pages for visa on my passport ( customs require a completely blank page because they put on it a huge sticker!! one trip-one sticker, it's crazy man!!!)...maybe my fault but it was the first time in my life!
Hate to say it but it was your mistake. You could make your handler to arrange an emergency visa, so ground agent will stamp it to your passport himself and only after that hand passports to immigration.
Hate to say it but it was your mistake. You could make your handler to arrange an emergency visa, so ground agent will stamp it to your passport himself and only after that hand passports to immigration.
hey buddy!
for sure it was my fault, i don't know if you are a pilot or not but, if yes, what would you do if your collegue at 0.5 miles on final had not asked you for the "gear down!" yet? you'd wait to be on ground on your belly or you'd say " hey pal! why don't we put some wheels!!?"
Anyway my overnight on the '900 was quite pleasant: good food, good martin scorsese's movie and good fellowship as well ( as long as we were two in the same condition...)!!
Let's know your opinion on other events decribed here!
Last edited by L'Argonauta; 24th Apr 2008 at 12:07.
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I personally loved the call from Petropavlovsk control while over the Bering Strait coming up on our ETP that the runway is closed and no estimate of opening again. Anyone else love their Tin Can microphone HF radios that only work 1/4 of the time? Thanks to all the airline mates relaying for us.
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Zoo
Vnukovo is definitely crazy. And they get away with it in their incredible arrogance and because there are not many alternatives. But, hey, you can account for some of the problems (and let's face it: it has all been even worse before).
The delay in getting our start-up clearance apparently has to do with ATC waiting for a release from Immigration.
And if you don't get your departure clearance in time: ask for it then. It's part of your responsibility.
Do not over-rely on the the marshallers when they guide you into a parking lot. They have no idea what they're doing and, if something goes south, they are not responsible either.
Rusaero appears to be relatively professional and their agents mostly helpful and resourceful.
I'm not trying to defend the 'Vnukovo Madness', but if you look at how they treat crews in more civilized countries, you understand what I mean.
The delay in getting our start-up clearance apparently has to do with ATC waiting for a release from Immigration.
And if you don't get your departure clearance in time: ask for it then. It's part of your responsibility.
Do not over-rely on the the marshallers when they guide you into a parking lot. They have no idea what they're doing and, if something goes south, they are not responsible either.
Rusaero appears to be relatively professional and their agents mostly helpful and resourceful.
I'm not trying to defend the 'Vnukovo Madness', but if you look at how they treat crews in more civilized countries, you understand what I mean.
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"and let's face it: it has all been even worse before)."
Hmm, don´t think so. Traffic increased so much in the 2-3 years that even in a quiet phase there is 4-5 airplanes waiting to depart from VKO 3.
The delay in getting our start-up clearance apparently has to do with ATC waiting for a release from Immigration.
True for the normal wait, which in my experience is no more than 1-2 minutes after you receive your passports from the grim lady...
The hours and hours you sit in the airplane, APU running (if you have one !) one can directly relate to government flights. If Wladimir is anywhere near the airport, everything comes to a halt. And it stays so, UNTIL it is clear that his aircraft will not turn back - at least thats what I learned from a handler - might be wrong.
And if you don't get your departure clearance in time: ask for it then. It's part of your responsibility.
You can ask as often as you want, you´ll get "climb 600mtrs, when passing 200 mtrs contact 126,2" on the runway, no inch further. Have been stationed there for 2 month and get back there every now and then...but wasn´t there for 3 months now, maybe it has changed.
Hmm, don´t think so. Traffic increased so much in the 2-3 years that even in a quiet phase there is 4-5 airplanes waiting to depart from VKO 3.
The delay in getting our start-up clearance apparently has to do with ATC waiting for a release from Immigration.
True for the normal wait, which in my experience is no more than 1-2 minutes after you receive your passports from the grim lady...
The hours and hours you sit in the airplane, APU running (if you have one !) one can directly relate to government flights. If Wladimir is anywhere near the airport, everything comes to a halt. And it stays so, UNTIL it is clear that his aircraft will not turn back - at least thats what I learned from a handler - might be wrong.
And if you don't get your departure clearance in time: ask for it then. It's part of your responsibility.
You can ask as often as you want, you´ll get "climb 600mtrs, when passing 200 mtrs contact 126,2" on the runway, no inch further. Have been stationed there for 2 month and get back there every now and then...but wasn´t there for 3 months now, maybe it has changed.
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Been there 2 years ago and recently almost every week, and all I can say that things are improving a bit.
Although last winter was the time again for 3 hour delays for de-icing etc.
Although last winter was the time again for 3 hour delays for de-icing etc.
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If you gave an untrained chimp a radio and a map it would make a better fist of it than russian/VKO ATC. shocking shocking shocking
Happiness is watching russain airspace disappearing down your MFD
What is it ratsu or ratin i cant remember but its the sweetest FIR boundary there is.
Fuel niet, catering definetly niet, de-icing niet, clearance niet, start niet.....etc etc what an expensive **** hole
Happiness is watching russain airspace disappearing down your MFD
What is it ratsu or ratin i cant remember but its the sweetest FIR boundary there is.
Fuel niet, catering definetly niet, de-icing niet, clearance niet, start niet.....etc etc what an expensive **** hole
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Hi All,
I have fond memories of UUWW. Luckily when I arrived our PAX had only drank 1/2 the bottle of Dom Perignon and had not touched the canapés so the 2hr wait wasn't so bad.
I also remember the guys in the fuel bowser, god bless them. If anyone has yet to have the pleasure of being asked for beer before they fill the tanks then the advice I was given was to say "yes no problem" and have the beer ready as that is the one job you would like to make sure they do properly! And make sure they put the fuel cap back on and close the door before you give them their reward.
Maybe those fuel monkeys were trained with beer as rewards as it was cheaper than Vodka!
Has anyone had the pleasure of hotel hopping due to the lack of vacancies? I stayed at the Imperial last summer and met an American Challenger pilot who had been stuck there for weeks. It was like meeting someone who had been stranded on a desert island for a while. When he realized we spoke English, I'm sure I saw a tear out of joy. Unfortunately his Captain had gone home and he was waiting for a replacement. We then went for a well earned beer.
I have fond memories of UUWW. Luckily when I arrived our PAX had only drank 1/2 the bottle of Dom Perignon and had not touched the canapés so the 2hr wait wasn't so bad.
I also remember the guys in the fuel bowser, god bless them. If anyone has yet to have the pleasure of being asked for beer before they fill the tanks then the advice I was given was to say "yes no problem" and have the beer ready as that is the one job you would like to make sure they do properly! And make sure they put the fuel cap back on and close the door before you give them their reward.
Maybe those fuel monkeys were trained with beer as rewards as it was cheaper than Vodka!
Has anyone had the pleasure of hotel hopping due to the lack of vacancies? I stayed at the Imperial last summer and met an American Challenger pilot who had been stuck there for weeks. It was like meeting someone who had been stranded on a desert island for a while. When he realized we spoke English, I'm sure I saw a tear out of joy. Unfortunately his Captain had gone home and he was waiting for a replacement. We then went for a well earned beer.
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Anyone else had problems going out of VKO in the champions league aftermath? Heard horror stories of aircraft being sat on the ground for 8hrs before the crew went out of duty, random airport closures, etc...
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Vnukovo
I was flying to Vnukovo in something a bit bigger than a biz jet and having read your threads today, I am now not surprised at our arrival in there yesterday arriving for the Champions league match.
Having not been allowed to descend, we reached Medud ( 10 nms from the airport)at FL 9100 m ( 29900 ft) and we were not given instructions on where we were going to go next and it was impossible to get an call on the R/T which was mostly in Russian .There were Thunderstorms all over the area and we had to resort to our own headings to resolve the problems because the lack of any control .
The R/T was some of the worst that I have experienced in 30 years of flying and there was no apparent arrival planning for the 15 aircraft I could see on the TCAS and we were giving about 5 different Moscow approach freqs,all as bad as each other!
We were "kind of " vectored around within about 45 nms of the airport gradually descending for over an hour to then be given approach with a thunderstorm sitting near the Centerline .
There was no G/S indications and we were concerned that we might not pick it up at all as G/S u/s is not authorised and the other approach is an NDB only .With some relief,at 10nms the G/S started indicating correctly .
We started the ILS and at 5 nms the Tower told us in broken english "dont land at the airport ...dont land at the airport it is closed for technical reasons "
We made a missed approach and we were eventually vectored again for another ILS approach 15 mins later low cloud and heavy rain , getting visual at 300ft above the ground with the windsreen wipers doing a rotten job of clearing the view !
All I can say, having not been to Russia before this was a bit of an eye opener and for you guys that operate in there alot ,I take my hat off to you !!
Have fun , be safe out there
Having not been allowed to descend, we reached Medud ( 10 nms from the airport)at FL 9100 m ( 29900 ft) and we were not given instructions on where we were going to go next and it was impossible to get an call on the R/T which was mostly in Russian .There were Thunderstorms all over the area and we had to resort to our own headings to resolve the problems because the lack of any control .
The R/T was some of the worst that I have experienced in 30 years of flying and there was no apparent arrival planning for the 15 aircraft I could see on the TCAS and we were giving about 5 different Moscow approach freqs,all as bad as each other!
We were "kind of " vectored around within about 45 nms of the airport gradually descending for over an hour to then be given approach with a thunderstorm sitting near the Centerline .
There was no G/S indications and we were concerned that we might not pick it up at all as G/S u/s is not authorised and the other approach is an NDB only .With some relief,at 10nms the G/S started indicating correctly .
We started the ILS and at 5 nms the Tower told us in broken english "dont land at the airport ...dont land at the airport it is closed for technical reasons "
We made a missed approach and we were eventually vectored again for another ILS approach 15 mins later low cloud and heavy rain , getting visual at 300ft above the ground with the windsreen wipers doing a rotten job of clearing the view !
All I can say, having not been to Russia before this was a bit of an eye opener and for you guys that operate in there alot ,I take my hat off to you !!
Have fun , be safe out there
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11 hours and counting
We managed just under 11 hours of 'Standby' responses from Ground before calling it a day, a lot of wasted time because no-one in the airport could make a decision to inform us the obvious news that we and many others were going nowhere 
Some classic RT chatter though, brought a tear to my eye through the grimace of frustration my face was fixed in
. Particularly loved the French guy trying to get his TV presenter to Paris to interview the President, if you believed the responses there were at least 3 french presidents flying jets yesterday 
Still, at least the pax cleared out the bar, the food and filled the toilet twice..........
Ready to go again at 0600z today, ready to put the nightmare of yesterday behind us and get on the road...........guess what the first response was from Ground after we were blessed by the gods in getting our permit sorted? "Airport Closed" Darn Russian President forced us to sit for an anxious 30 mins thinking we were in for another day of 'Standby'!
home now, Bless zzZZZZZzzzz
Some classic RT chatter though, brought a tear to my eye through the grimace of frustration my face was fixed in
. Particularly loved the French guy trying to get his TV presenter to Paris to interview the President, if you believed the responses there were at least 3 french presidents flying jets yesterday Still, at least the pax cleared out the bar, the food and filled the toilet twice..........
Ready to go again at 0600z today, ready to put the nightmare of yesterday behind us and get on the road...........guess what the first response was from Ground after we were blessed by the gods in getting our permit sorted? "Airport Closed" Darn Russian President forced us to sit for an anxious 30 mins thinking we were in for another day of 'Standby'!
home now, Bless zzZZZZZzzzz
Last edited by flybyshark; 23rd May 2008 at 19:40.
Bizjet Guy
Wouldn't be IJM by any chance? 17 hours duty days and it's not enough for them. 23-24 hours and no-one says a word!
JAR-OPS 1 all a level playing field eh? I think not!
Wouldn't be IJM by any chance? 17 hours duty days and it's not enough for them. 23-24 hours and no-one says a word!
JAR-OPS 1 all a level playing field eh? I think not!