Learjet 60 startup
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: hungary
Learjet 60 startup
Dear Lear 60 Drivers,
In the Lear 60 the Avionics Master Switches control almost all avionics systems except for the No1 RTU(with No1 COM), the SDU and both FMS's which are powered all the time when the BATTERY Switches are ON.
-By the Normal Checklist you turn OFF the L&R Avionics Switches before engine start. (obviously to protect the sensitive avionics from voltage transients like with many other aircraft with electric starter motors).
-The checklist doesn't mention the remaining systems powered directly by the Battery Switches.
-So, do you normaly start up with the No1 RTU, FMS boxes, SDU powered, without harm to theese systems?
Many thanks,
balaton
In the Lear 60 the Avionics Master Switches control almost all avionics systems except for the No1 RTU(with No1 COM), the SDU and both FMS's which are powered all the time when the BATTERY Switches are ON.
-By the Normal Checklist you turn OFF the L&R Avionics Switches before engine start. (obviously to protect the sensitive avionics from voltage transients like with many other aircraft with electric starter motors).
-The checklist doesn't mention the remaining systems powered directly by the Battery Switches.
-So, do you normaly start up with the No1 RTU, FMS boxes, SDU powered, without harm to theese systems?
Many thanks,
balaton
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 294
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From: Dark side of the force
Thatīs right, turning off the master switches is to protect the screens. I you start engines with Master ON sometimes you may see one screen or both go blank, the starters take almost all the power from the APU or the BATT. The RTU1 is powered by the emergency batt1 not by the main batt. The rest of the systems are not affected, just be careful to switch off the A/C or Heater before start up, youīll see normally power up to 450amps on startup. Welcome to the nice Lear 60, next step is Rockets to Mars!!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: hungary
Many thanks for your reply, transilvana. All I really wanted to now that I can INITIALIZE/PROGRAM my FMS prior to startup, the FMS's can remain switched on during the start cycle without losing data or having to re-initialize after start up?
Lookin forward to fly this riot. Best rgds,
balaton
Lookin forward to fly this riot. Best rgds,
balaton
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 294
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From: Dark side of the force
No problem with the FMS, you can upload all the info before startup, the only reason to power off the screens is to protect them, they are all style catode tubes not the modern LCD. Lear 60 is nice and hard aircraft, thera are few points you have to watch to have a smooth flight. Watch engine oil carefully every 10 hours, oxygen system leaks on all the Lears 60 I have flown as well as Gear air, don't be hard on the brakes if you fly the 2 disk types, use reverses mostly and be careful with OAT changes on flight, it will get you into the overspeed business in miliseconds!!! those 2 rockets on the back are really rockets, you can do 15.000fpm on this baby.
It is a rocket, 10 - 11,000 fpm is no real prob and FL410 in 12 - 14 mins is the norm. Enjoy!
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: hungary
Many thanks for the inputs, I am astonished at the vast knowledge and operational experience of this forum. I love it and I appreciate it.
O.K., I am briefed well of what I can expect in climb ( a huge lead to level off if want to keep my job, my boss doesn't like extreem sports), but can you give me some "rule of thumb" numbers on descent? Studying a bit closer the Lear 60's descent charts, they give you more than 5000fpm(remember my boss back there) at idle power with the recommended speed schedule(.76M/300/250KIAS).
So can you give me some more realistic numbers for descent and descent planning? What do you use in normal day-to-day operations (IAS. N1. Fuel Flow) ?
Dear transilvana is it YR-RPB (beautiful bird)? (Answer is not compulsory)
balaton
O.K., I am briefed well of what I can expect in climb ( a huge lead to level off if want to keep my job, my boss doesn't like extreem sports), but can you give me some "rule of thumb" numbers on descent? Studying a bit closer the Lear 60's descent charts, they give you more than 5000fpm(remember my boss back there) at idle power with the recommended speed schedule(.76M/300/250KIAS).
So can you give me some more realistic numbers for descent and descent planning? What do you use in normal day-to-day operations (IAS. N1. Fuel Flow) ?
Dear transilvana is it YR-RPB (beautiful bird)? (Answer is not compulsory)
balaton
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Stansted
For passenger comfort I always worked with a standard 3degree profile... roughly 2500fpm... not 5000fpm LOL..
Also plan on 1000fpm the last 1000ft climb so you dont spit the boss in the ceiling and beware the throttles.. they are very sensitive to movement and with the aircraft being so overpowered, it can make the flight very uncomfortable for your passengers. Being smooth on the power takes practice in the 60.
Also plan on 1000fpm the last 1000ft climb so you dont spit the boss in the ceiling and beware the throttles.. they are very sensitive to movement and with the aircraft being so overpowered, it can make the flight very uncomfortable for your passengers. Being smooth on the power takes practice in the 60.
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Dark side of the force
thatīs right. Some figures you may find on normal operation
Cruise power: if heavy up to 94% if ISA is hot and if light 90-92%.
Descend: 2.500fpm start descend 15-18 minutes before arrival. You can do more but is better 2.500fpm, use Vnav when ever you can. You can also use VS at the begining of descend, try first 300fpm and then go to 2000fpm, you would have a smooth transition for the passangers. Watch the power settings on descend, those rockets on the back are powerful.
Climb: I usually use pitch for intial climb, 250 knots up to 10000ft and then I accelerate to 300-320 knots and climb. As you fly more you will get your own options, other use VS, others use M.73.
FMS some times does weird things, youīll see that when transfering info from other FMS you only get next point on the screen and nothing after the transfer, as if all the info got lost, but not, if this happens select DTO a point and youĻll have all the info on the screen.
Donīt worry about the aircraft, is nice and easy to fly, just you have to get use to the power, is overhelming.
Cruise power: if heavy up to 94% if ISA is hot and if light 90-92%.
Descend: 2.500fpm start descend 15-18 minutes before arrival. You can do more but is better 2.500fpm, use Vnav when ever you can. You can also use VS at the begining of descend, try first 300fpm and then go to 2000fpm, you would have a smooth transition for the passangers. Watch the power settings on descend, those rockets on the back are powerful.
Climb: I usually use pitch for intial climb, 250 knots up to 10000ft and then I accelerate to 300-320 knots and climb. As you fly more you will get your own options, other use VS, others use M.73.
FMS some times does weird things, youīll see that when transfering info from other FMS you only get next point on the screen and nothing after the transfer, as if all the info got lost, but not, if this happens select DTO a point and youĻll have all the info on the screen.
Donīt worry about the aircraft, is nice and easy to fly, just you have to get use to the power, is overhelming.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: hungary
So, all this means that at 300KIAS, descent at approx. 2500fpm requires a bit more power than flight idle, Is it correct?
Another short question:
In the Lear 60 there are several types of audio warnings(takeoff config/ldg gear/cabin altitude/alt alert/sisconnect warnings, etc) I assumed that theese audio warnings use the overhead speakers (as in many other a/c).
But there are 3 additional small speakers("horns") on the top portion of the copilot C/B panel. What are the function of theese speakers? I culd not find any reference on them in the Lear Manuals not even in the Training Manual (FSI).
Or is it a sytem like Boeing's where some audio warning are coming from the standard cockpit speakers, some are from a dedicated audio box?
Another short question:
In the Lear 60 there are several types of audio warnings(takeoff config/ldg gear/cabin altitude/alt alert/sisconnect warnings, etc) I assumed that theese audio warnings use the overhead speakers (as in many other a/c).
But there are 3 additional small speakers("horns") on the top portion of the copilot C/B panel. What are the function of theese speakers? I culd not find any reference on them in the Lear Manuals not even in the Training Manual (FSI).
Or is it a sytem like Boeing's where some audio warning are coming from the standard cockpit speakers, some are from a dedicated audio box?
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Stansted
Yes.. the config warnings, overspeed warnings etc.. come from those small horns on the FO cb panel.
normal 2500fpm planned decents are at more than idle yes... but be warned that if you are just starting down then you will have to come back to idle initially otherwise you overspeed.
normal 2500fpm planned decents are at more than idle yes... but be warned that if you are just starting down then you will have to come back to idle initially otherwise you overspeed.
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Charlotte, NC USA
Rule of thumb: 3 X ALT in NM @ 2500 FPM.
FL410 = 41 X 3 = 123NM from destination (sea level).
Adjust for higher elevation destinations, tailwinds, etc.
Assume ATC will screw things up.
Cubs2jets
FL410 = 41 X 3 = 123NM from destination (sea level).
Adjust for higher elevation destinations, tailwinds, etc.
Assume ATC will screw things up.
Cubs2jets
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: hungary
Many thanks LRdriver II,
Just to confirm those speakers are dedicated to ALL audio warnings or it is a mixed system where I can have the warnings from the speakers, overhead speakers and headphones at the same time?
balaton ("hairsplitter")
Just to confirm those speakers are dedicated to ALL audio warnings or it is a mixed system where I can have the warnings from the speakers, overhead speakers and headphones at the same time?
balaton ("hairsplitter")
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 161
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From: hungary
There must be some logic behind it! It would be interesting to find out. May be some certification issues...? Which warning can use the normal audio system/speakers which must use separate horns. I tried Bombardier: no results.
balaton
balaton
